Salvation comes from the Jew (John 4:22)

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#41
The Gentiles were only given Jesus Christ, the Salvation of God, at the very end of Acts, This verse is proof that they
Ac 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Hi cfowen, But God had intended to include the Gentile before the creation of the world, but in it's own time. (Gen. 12:1-3) Epistle to the Ephesians and (Rom. 3:29)
 





cfowen

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#42
Hi cfowen, But God had intended to include the Gentile before the creation of the world, but in it's own time. (Gen. 12:1-3) Epistle to the Ephesians and (Rom. 3:29)
That time is now and the present 2000 year period is essentially all Gentile with a few Jews that believe in Christ. Israel, as a nation, does not exist today. Salvation is not of the Jews today. It was transferred to the Gentiles in Ac 28:28, right after Israel was set aside, in Ac 28:25-27, when Paul pronounced spiritual blindness on Israel by quoting Isa 6:9-10 for the 7th and last occurrence in the scriptures.

Everything during Acts was Israel, since all saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel. The Gentiles in Acts had absolutely nothing of their own. What they did have, they had through Israel, because everything of value during Acts belonged to Israel. When Israel was set aside, everything belonging to Israel was also set aside. Since everything in Acts belonged to Israel, everything in Acts is gone, at least for this 2000 year Gentile period we're now in.

EVERYTHING that belongs to us Gentile Saints today is found ONLY in Paul's 7 epistles written after Acts. NOTHING found in Acts applies directly to anyone living today.

This shoots down about half of what the entire mainstream denominational teaches today, since about 1/2 of their teaching comes from the now defunct Acts period (rapture, Acts church, gifts, etc.). Mainstream Denominational Churches are Jewish synagogues teaching Jewish-only doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles. Not one mainstream denominational preacher rightly divides God's Word of truth and, therefore, it is impossible for them to be correct about what the Acts and after-Acts periods were/are all about. Even if they knew how to rightly divide, they couldn't teach it, because it would strongly conflict with what the Church organizations insist the preachers teach.
 





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#43
@rainerann

Doesn’t it say that god is going to bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.

In Genesis, God says this to Abram--

I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

GENESIS 12:3
 





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#44
@rainerann

Doesn’t it say that god is going to bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.

In Genesis, God says this to Abram--

I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

GENESIS 12:3
Right and this attributed to Israel by Zionists every day and twice on Sunday. It is the primary justification for manipulating the church with Zionism, and Abraham sought after righteousness. Therefore, the church should be able to see the difference between Zionism and the anti-zionists within the Jewish community since they know who Abraham is and they know why he was blessed by God.

This is entirely why I base my opinion on those that demonstrate seeking righteousness and face actual persecution for this that are even called antisemites even when they are Jewish and I will not ever follow the Zionist herd at any point in time even if these people call themselves Christians. No one seems to see the hypocrisy in how many testimonies are being ignored within the Jewish community and It is truly something to be ashamed of. I did not become a Christian to be a hypocrite.
 





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#45
Hi rain, It is not the spelling that is in question...no matter how you spell it, the nomenclature is still the same. The word, Jew was originally meant for the tribe of Judea and Benjamites of the Southern kingdom and then became a standard for all Israelites. The German's Called the Jews, "Juden", Which meant Jew. None of this has to do with our Salvation. Freedman claims Jesus was not even a Jew and it is false and we are duped.

  1. JESUS WAS NOT A Jew - Bible Believers

    www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm
    JESUS WAS NOT A Jew. Benjamin H. Freedman, Jewish Historian - Researcher - Scholar. From "Common Sense", p. 2-1-53 and 5-1-59 "Christians have been duped by the unholiest hoax in all history, by so-called Jews.
  2. Benjamin Freedman And Jesus Not A Jew - Image Results
  3. More Benjamin Freedman And Jesus Not A Jew images
  4. Benjamin Freedman: Freedman: "Jesus was not a Jew"

    benjaminhfreedman.blogspot.com/2008/01/freedman-jesus-was-not-jew.html
    JESUS WAS NOT A JEW ! Benj. H. Freedman, Historian – Researcher – Scholar From “Common Sense”, 2-1-53 and 5-1-59 “Christians Duped By The Unholiest Hoax in All History, By So-Called Jews.
Right, that is what I was explaining as well. The nomenclature is not the same. If it were the same, then descendants of Jews who converted Christianity would still be able to identify as Jews if we were using the original definition. The word we use, is not the same word that was used at the time of Christ. Jesus was not a Jew. Jesus was a Judean before there was a schism within the Jewish community that separated them and caused Christian Jews to lose their identity because of persecution by those who rejected Christ. Therefore, Freedman is right. Jesus was not a Jew and he is a fascinating and intelligent man that I have a great deal of respect for.

We learn in the Bible every day about the ways that some with be blessed who give up family and yet we encourage people to retain their status as a Jew when we collectively reject what someone like Freedman says because he is critical of the mainstream narrative for his own identity.

"And everyone who has left houses, brothers or sisters, father or mother, children, or fields because of My name will receive 100 times more and will inherit eternal life."

So which is it? Are we really following Christ and bringing other people to him, or are we simply idolaters worshipping the Jews? I just don't see how anyone can really justify using the word antisemitic in regard to another Jew. Isn't that antisemitic? I mean where do you draw the line if you can call a Jew an antisemite, and not be called an antisemite for doing this yourself?
 





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#46
Right, that is what I was explaining as well. The nomenclature is not the same. If it were the same, then descendants of Jews who converted Christians would still be able to identify as Jews if we were using the original definition. The word we use, is not the same word that was used at the time of Christ. Jesus was not a Jew. Jesus was a Judean before there was a schism within the Jewish community that separated them and caused Christian Jews to lose their identity because of persecution by those who rejected Christ. Therefore, Freedman is right. Jesus was not a Jew and he is a fascinating and intelligent man that I have a great deal of respect for.

We learn in the Bible every day about the ways that some with be blessed who give up family and yet we encourage people to retain their status as a Jew when we collectively reject what someone like Freedman says because he is critical of the mainstream narrative for his own identity.

"And everyone who has left houses, brothers or sisters, father or mother, children, or fields because of My name will receive 100 times more and will inherit eternal life."

So which is it? Are we really following Christ and bringing other people to him, or are we simply idolaters worshipping the Jews? I just don't see how anyone can really justify using the word antisemitic in regard to another Jew. Isn't that antisemitic? I mean where do you draw the line if you can call a Jew an antisemite, and not be called an antisemite for doing this yourself?
To further your point regarding Freedman’s clarification, I think he explains it quite well in his letter to Dr. Goldstein:

The utterance by the Christian clergy which confuses Christians the most is the constantly repeated utterance that "Jesus was a Jew." That also appears to be your favorite theme. That misrepresentation and distortion of an incontestable historic fact is uttered by the Christian clergy upon the slightest pretext. They utter it constantly, also without provocation. They appear to be "trigger happy" to utter it. They never miss an opportunity to do so. Informed intelligent Christians cannot reconcile this truly unwarranted misrepresentation and distortion of an incontestable historic fact by the Christian clergy with information known by them now to the contrary which comes to them from sources believed by them to be equally reliable.

This poses a serious problem today for the Christian clergy. They can extricate themselves from their present predicament now only be resorting to "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". That is the only formula by which the Christian clergy can recapture the lost confidence of Christians. As effective spiritual leaders they cannot function without this lost confidence. They should make that their first order of business.

My dear Dr. Goldstein, you are a theologian of high rank and a historian of note. Of necessity you also should agree with other outstanding authorities on the subject of whether "Jesus was a Jew." These leading authorities agree today that there is no foundation in fact for the implications, inferences and the innuendoes resulting from the incorrect belief that "Jesus was a Jew". Incontestable historic facts and an abundance of other proofs establish beyond the possibility of any doubt the incredibility of the assertion so often heard today that "Jesus was a Jew". (source)
 





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#47
Everything during Acts was Israel, Not quite all true cf. The Gospel was first preached to the Jew only in the beginning of Acts, but Acts Chapter 10 starts the first Gentile converts. The Jew was always preached to first. Paul, thou he was the Apostle to the Gentile, Where ever he went, he peached to the Jew First, The Church is one complete body and is not considered Jew or Gentile, but is considered the body of Christ. (Eph. 2:15-16; Gal. 3:8; Gal. 3:26-29) And Christ is not done with the Church yet. It is not completed yet. since all saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel. The Gentiles in Acts had absolutely nothing of their own. What they did have, they had through Israel, because everything of value during Acts belonged to Israel. When Israel was set aside, everything belonging to Israel was also set aside. Since everything in Acts belonged to Israel, everything in Acts is gone, at least for this 2000 year Gentile period we're now in.

EVERYTHING that belongs to us Gentile Saints today is found ONLY in Paul's 7 epistles written after Acts. NOTHING found in Acts applies directly to anyone living today.
I understand what you are saying, but The Acts of the Apostles are a witness to the suffering and works and it's teaching confirm and apply to us today, conforming us to His image.
 





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#48
I have got to admit this is a subject I have never heard about in sermons.
I thought Jews referred to actual believe-in-Judaism Jews, not inhabitants of Israel or cultural only (atheists-in-disguise) Jews.
To my understanding there would be way more real Jews in Israel, since their ancestors would have made a conscious decision to move to modern Israel post WW2.

Is this is a topic which is discussed a lot about in the USA?
 





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#49
I have got to admit this is a subject I have never heard about in sermons.
I thought Jews referred to actual believe-in-Judaism Jews, not inhabitants of Israel or cultural only (atheists-in-disguise) Jews.
To my understanding there would be way more real Jews in Israel, since their ancestors would have made a conscious decision to move to modern Israel post WW2.

Is this is a topic which is discussed a lot about in the USA?
Whether "Jew" applies to culture or religion?

To what end? I dont see the relevance tbh, but it isnt a conversation I've had, nor have I heard it as a topic of conversation from anyone who did not have a problem with Jews. Only those who take issue with them seem to talk about it.
 





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#50
Whether "Jew" applies to culture or religion?

To what end? I dont see the relevance tbh, but it isnt a conversation I've had, nor have I heard it as a topic of conversation from anyone who did not have a problem with Jews. Only those who take issue with them seem to talk about it.
I typed that because I am puzzled about what may be being taught that I haven't at all. I am trying to understand their reasoning.
My brother-in -law*'s sister works for the UN in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. I know both sides are at fault, constant tit-for-tat conflicts. I don't understand why a church/ preacher would automatically support the country Israel itself, unless perhaps the country Israel is viewed as meaning the Jews themselves. If so, that is a massive assumption!

*husband's sister's husband
 





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#51
I have got to admit this is a subject I have never heard about in sermons.
I thought Jews referred to actual believe-in-Judaism Jews, not inhabitants of Israel or cultural only (atheists-in-disguise) Jews.
To my understanding there would be way more real Jews in Israel, since their ancestors would have made a conscious decision to move to modern Israel post WW2.

Is this is a topic which is discussed a lot about in the USA?
Hi Jo, elsbet gave a good answer.
 





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#52
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#54
Do you know what the Talmud is?
Yes, but there are many translation and versions of it, During the exile and post exile versions, some in part and some in full. In Esther 2:5, the Aramaic or Hebrew translation, Mordekai is called a "Yahidi" (Jew) and a "Binyamite" (Benjamite). (Semantics). The word Jew was used after the Capture of Judea, Then became a catch phrase for all Israelites. I have a Book called "The Chronological Gospels" By Rood. He puts Christ ministry at 70 weeks instead of 3 1/2 years. It is an interesting version of the NT with the events of all the Gospels in their order of events to each other. A nice leather bound book with silver edged pages. But none of this has anything to do with my faith in Christ and my eternal state. Christ is going to return and take us away with Him, and I hope that is your hope also.
 





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#56
@rainerann

Doesn’t it say that god is going to bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.

In Genesis, God says this to Abram--

I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

GENESIS 12:3
This may seem like a stupid question but to you, how many Israels are there?

If you were raised in a Christian household, iam sure you will remember this.


We all sang this song in Sunday school and our toddler/pre-teen selves meant what we were singing, and i still believe that iam Abraham's kid. Do you? If not, as a believer, who are you?
Because in SS, we were taught that he is the father of all believers: Gal 3:6
"just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." (<-this, in the face of replacement theology being called anti-semitic in origin)

Now, as far as iam aware, scripture never says anything about 2 Israels. There's just one. So, using the verse you quoted, which Israel are you called to bless? If it is the state in the MiddleEast, where does that leave you?

Anticipating your answer, if you say you are a gentile (natural descent) but also have Abraham as a spiritual father thus making you spiritual Israel, which lineage, in God's eyes, takes precedence over the other, natural or spiritual? And there can't be two israels because you'd have to biblically support the argument.

To add, most often, that verse in Genesis is used to explain the decline of the Spanish empire because of the Inquistion and yet it (the argument) always fails (and is never cited) when it comes to Germany (Europe's largest economy). How is it that Germany made it out okay after "cursing" Jews but Spain didn't?
 





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#57
This may seem like a stupid question but to you, how many Israels are there?

If you were raised in a Christian household, iam sure you will remember this.


We all sang this song in Sunday school and our toddler/pre-teen selves meant what we were singing, and i still believe that iam Abraham's kid. Do you? If not, as a believer, who are you?
Because in SS, we were taught that he is the father of all believers: Gal 3:6
"just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." (<-this, in the face of replacement theology being called anti-semitic in origin)

Now, as far as iam aware, scripture never says anything about 2 Israels. There's just one. So, using the verse you quoted, which Israel are you called to bless? If it is the state in the MiddleEast, where does that leave you?

Anticipating your answer, if you say you are a gentile (natural descent) but also have Abraham as a spiritual father thus making you spiritual Israel, which lineage, in God's eyes, takes precedence over the other, natural or spiritual? And there can't be two israels because you'd have to biblically support the argument.

To add, most often, that verse in Genesis is used to explain the decline of the Spanish empire because of the Inquistion and yet it (the argument) always fails (and is never cited) when it comes to Germany (Europe's largest economy). How is it that Germany made it out okay after "cursing" Jews but Spain didn't?
Hi Karly, All that you posted has noting to do with Salvation. Do you understand what salvation is?
 





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#58
This may seem like a stupid question but to you, how many Israels are there?

If you were raised in a Christian household, iam sure you will remember this.


We all sang this song in Sunday school and our toddler/pre-teen selves meant what we were singing, and i still believe that iam Abraham's kid. Do you? If not, as a believer, who are you?
Because in SS, we were taught that he is the father of all believers: Gal 3:6
"just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." (<-this, in the face of replacement theology being called anti-semitic in origin)

Now, as far as iam aware, scripture never says anything about 2 Israels. There's just one. So, using the verse you quoted, which Israel are you called to bless? If it is the state in the MiddleEast, where does that leave you?

Anticipating your answer, if you say you are a gentile (natural descent) but also have Abraham as a spiritual father thus making you spiritual Israel, which lineage, in God's eyes, takes precedence over the other, natural or spiritual? And there can't be two israels because you'd have to biblically support the argument.

To add, most often, that verse in Genesis is used to explain the decline of the Spanish empire because of the Inquistion and yet it (the argument) always fails (and is never cited) when it comes to Germany (Europe's largest economy). How is it that Germany made it out okay after "cursing" Jews but Spain didn't?
Stupid may be a bit strong...

This verse is from the chapter you quoted in Galatians.. and from it, we know this:

v.13
Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law,
having become for us a curse...
that to the nations
the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus (Jew!),
that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through

the faith.

The How Many Israels.. ? question is associated with a political agenda-- so it's probably off topic.

My guess is that you assume I think Jewish people are entitled to Israel, based strictly on lineage or prophecy.. but "Because it's in the Bible / Torah" doesn't really wash in any law based society, even if it is true-- so it isn't The Reason I hold the opinions that I do (granted it may be the reason they already have Israel but that's neither here nor there).

Can't say the same for everyone else, of course, because Israel's detractors are invested heavily in this idea- - otherwise, they wouldn't go to all this trouble to prove that the people of Israel today are:

a.) Not Real Jews, or

b.) Not True Israel.

But in so doing, they legitimize the idea that only TRUE JEWS / ISRAEL are entitled to Israel. Which still leaves the Palestinians kind of screwed. :/

NOTE-- I wouldn't say Germany 'made it okay.' Have you researched what happened after WW2? I mean, the Berlin Wall didn't come down until 1989, when the Germans "... tore it down with their own hands." Interestingly, that is also the same year they officially recognized the State of Israel. Ijs.
 





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#59
Stupid may be a bit strong...

This verse is from the chapter you quoted in Galatians.. and from it, we know this:

v.13
Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law,
having become for us a curse...
that to the nations
the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus (Jew!),
that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through

the faith.

The How Many Israels.. ? question is associated with a political agenda-- so it's probably off topic.

My guess is that you assume I think Jewish people are entitled to Israel, based strictly on lineage or prophecy.. but "Because it's in the Bible / Torah" doesn't really wash in any law based society, even if it is true-- so it isn't The Reason I hold the opinions that I do (granted it may be the reason they already have Israel but that's neither here nor there).

Can't say the same for everyone else, of course, because Israel's detractors are invested heavily in this idea- - otherwise, they wouldn't go to all this trouble to prove that the people of Israel today are:

a.) Not Real Jews, or

b.) Not True Israel.

But in so doing, they legitimize the idea that only TRUE JEWS / ISRAEL are entitled to Israel. Which still leaves the Palestinians kind of screwed. :/

NOTE-- I wouldn't say Germany 'made it okay.' Have you researched what happened after WW2? I mean, the Berlin Wall didn't come down until 1989, when the Germans "... tore it down with their own hands." Interestingly, that is also the same year they officially recognized the State of Israel. Ijs.
I see.

Thanks for your response anyways!
 





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#60
Yes people can find other people that agree with them on a subject (including me) but on this one, the position makes no sense. No way Moses says Abraham was a gentile or that the Israelites came from Gentiles. Now would he say Abraham was a stranger/foreigner to the land he came across? Yes. But would he refer to him as a gentile during a time where gentiles meant outsiders of Israel? Not at all.

And in regards to Rahab, the seed is determined by the father not the mother. Which is why David was accepted in Israel despite his mother being a Moabite...
The word Gentiles existed before Abraham(goy & goyim ). Abraham was in fact a goy when he was called out. And God promised him that he would be the father to many goyim. It was simply used as a word to refer to the different nations, one of which Abraham came from, thus making him a goy, meaning one from the goyim.

Acts 15:13:-14
And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
The distinguishing of Israelites and Gentiles didn’t come about until the Israelites had formed as a nation and God set them apart.
 





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