Right and Wrong ways to reach the lost?

[pescatarian09]

Well then I find it sad he departed from the faith. Now I don't know IL so I can't say you're wrong...but there's just something about him that's setting me off. Also, I apologize for saying I don't need to talk with you, I was just having a moment.

When your religion (Islam) is being slandered and misrepresented, you cannot stand by in silence. That's why @Infinityloop might be setting you off. You might come off the same way to others if your religion was said to be that of the antichrist, and your scripture the devil's drivel. I am a Muslim by the way, and proud of it.

You don't have to talk to me don't worry, there's a lot of replies coming in from all places and all people anyway. You have enough to respond to. We all have our moments

 

[floss]

I had alluded to my history is previous posts, she knew it had been a very difficult relationship between me and my parents, she knew that I had been abused as a child by christians.

Were they Catholics?

 

[LittleLady]

When your religion (Islam) is being slandered and misrepresented, you cannot stand by in silence. That's why @Infinityloop might be setting you off. You might come off the same way to others if your religion was said to be that of the antichrist, and your scripture the devil's drivel. I am a Muslim by the way, and proud of it.

You don't have to talk to me don't worry, there's a lot of replies coming in from all places and all people anyway. You have enough to respond to. We all have our moments

Wait, I'm not trying to start anything, but a lot of Muslims suggest beating your wife and raping her if she misbehaves is an acceptable thing. (And violence used with women in general) I heard this about a year ago by a few people on a different media. Since I'm not one to assume anything, and since you seem respectful, I'd like to ask you if this is true? I've been curious for a long time but never bothered to ask.

Also in a few posts back, Kung Fu had said something against Lisa and even told her, "(something) like the little obedient wife you are"
And he's a Muslim guy. So...I just...

 

[Infinityloop]

Wait, I'm not trying to start anything, but a lot of Muslims suggest beating your wife and raping her if she misbehaves is an acceptable thing. (And violence used with women in general)

Such behavior is sinful behavior in Islam, you clearly don't know much.

I heard this about a year ago by a few people on a different media.

That explains it, you're just buying into nazi-level propaganda directed at presenting a very wicked, distorted image against our religion.

 

[Infinityloop]

Wait, I'm not trying to start anything, but a lot of Muslims suggest beating your wife and raping her if she misbehaves is an acceptable thing. (And violence used with women in general) I heard this about a year ago by a few people on a different media. Since I'm not one to assume anything, and since you seem respectful, I'd like to ask you if this is true? I've been curious for a long time but never bothered to ask.

Also in a few posts back, Kung Fu had said something against Lisa and even told her, "(something) like the little obedient wife you are"
And he's a Muslim guy. So...I just...

Prophet Muhammad (

) said: "Do not beat the female servants of God;" "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and also, "[It is a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the day." [Riyadh Al-Saaliheen]

 

[Infinityloop]

Wait, I'm not trying to start anything, but a lot of Muslims suggest beating your wife and raping her if she misbehaves is an acceptable thing. (And violence used with women in general) I heard this about a year ago by a few people on a different media. Since I'm not one to assume anything, and since you seem respectful, I'd like to ask you if this is true? I've been curious for a long time but never bothered to ask.

Also in a few posts back, Kung Fu had said something against Lisa and even told her, "(something) like the little obedient wife you are"
And he's a Muslim guy. So...I just...

Also: https://www.islamawareness.net/Wife/beating1.html

 

[LittleLady]

Such behavior is sinful behavior in Islam, you clearly don't know much.



That explains it, you're just buying into nazi-level propaganda directed at presenting a very wicked, distorted image against our religion.

Since you're either slow or purposely skip what I say, I said, "Since I'm not one to assume, I'd like to ask you if this is true?" So no, I did NOT buy into it. I would never believe something like that unless I actually ask a Muslim hence, "I'd like to ASK you if this is true." And that's what THEY said, NOT me. You need to be thankful I was wise enough to ask instead of being petty and assuming it's true.

 

[Todd]

I think there is a moment of decision for anyone who repents and accepts Jesus as their rightful king. Something happens to our standing before God at this point, as well as to our very nature (in the Spirit).

And for many people they make that decision mulitple times in their life before real lasting transformation occurs. Hence the reason I am sceptical when Christians make a big deal about someone saying the sinners prayer, but don't following through and actually assist the individual in becoming a disciple. To clarify, becoming a disciple is simply being disciplined, not in the rituals and traditions of religion, but in living the commands of Jesus.

There is also the “working out” of our salvation which is an ongoing process, and which people sometimes confuse with salvation by works. Often people quote these few words without adding the next few words - “for it is God who works In you both to will and to do His good pleasure”. It is clear to me that this indicates the outworking, or external demonstration of an internal reality of salvation.

Works are one of many tools in God's toolbox that he uses to "work out our salvation." It's not the only one, but it's a shame that so many Christian's completely throw out this tool, because of the misconception that "salvation is not by works" at all.

 

[Infinityloop]

وَلَيسَتِ التَّوبَةُ لِلَّذينَ يَعمَلونَ السَّيِّئَاتِ حَتّىٰ إِذا حَضَرَ أَحَدَهُمُ المَوتُ قالَ إِنّي تُبتُ الآنَ وَلَا الَّذينَ يَموتونَ وَهُم كُفّارٌ ۚ أُولٰئِكَ أَعتَدنا لَهُم عَذابًا أَليمًا
يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنوا لا يَحِلُّ لَكُم أَن تَرِثُوا النِّساءَ كَرهًا ۖ وَلا تَعضُلوهُنَّ لِتَذهَبوا بِبَعضِ ما آتَيتُموهُنَّ إِلّا أَن يَأتينَ بِفاحِشَةٍ مُبَيِّنَةٍ ۚ وَعاشِروهُنَّ بِالمَعروفِ ۚ فَإِن كَرِهتُموهُنَّ فَعَسىٰ أَن تَكرَهوا شَيئًا وَيَجعَلَ اللَّهُ فيهِ خَيرًا كَثيرًا​

But [acceptance of] repentance is not for those who go on committing misdeeds: when death approaches any of them, he says, ‘I repent now.’ Nor is it for those who die while they are faithless. For such We have prepared a painful punishment.
O you who have faith! It is not lawful for you to inherit women forcibly, and do not press them to take away part of what you have given them, unless they commit a gross indecency. Consort with them in an honourable manner; and should you dislike them, maybe you dislike something while Allah invests it with an abundant good.
(Qur'an, Surah 4:18-19)

 

[Infinityloop]

Since you're either slow or purposely skip what I say, I said, "Since I'm not one to assume, I'd like to ask you if this is true?" So no, I did NOT buy into it. I would never believe something like that unless I actually ask a Muslim hence, "I'd like to ASK you if this is true." And that's what THEY said, NOT me. You need to be thankful I was wise enough to ask instead of being petty and assuming it's true.

Then I must apologize and commend you, as there are many others on this site who lap up everything media propaganda tells them, despite that in every other case they claim the media is evil and deceptive. I'm glad that you have healthy skepticism towards such things, it'll keep you sane

God bless.

 

[Todd]

Todd so you believe Paul's apostleship was not of God?

I believe Paul was likely the greatest evangelist of all time, but he was a self appointed Apostle. Though Peter acknowledged Paul as a "beloved brother", none of the original apostles of Christ ever acknowledge Paul as an Apsotle.

My personal conviction is that what the institutional church likes to call the five fold ministry , the pastor, prophet, evangelist, teacher and apostle, have all been erroneously inflated into titles of position and authority, when they were only intended to be descriptions of gifting and functions present amongst all believers.

I believe Paul was extremely gifted in spreading the gospel and sharing his faith amongst the Gentiles. He also had a gift of describing the working of God's grace in the life of a believer. However, I think his gifting or ability to establish doctrine and theology was grossly inflated by the Roman Chruch and carries on today. Peter, James and John were specifically gifted and appointed by God to establish doctrine and theology, but the rise and prevalence of Paul's writings in the institutional church undermined that.

 

[pescatarian09]

Wait, I'm not trying to start anything, but a lot of Muslims suggest beating your wife and raping her if she misbehaves is an acceptable thing. (And violence used with women in general) I heard this about a year ago by a few people on a different media. Since I'm not one to assume anything, and since you seem respectful, I'd like to ask you if this is true? I've been curious for a long time but never bothered to ask.

Also in a few posts back, Kung Fu had said something against Lisa and even told her, "(something) like the little obedient wife you are"
And he's a Muslim guy. So...I just...

@Infinityloop is not a wolf in sheep's clothing, any more than I or any other Muslim who defends their religion from conjecture, slander, hearsay, misrepresentation, or misintepretation are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Women and men are addressed in equal terms by the Quran:

Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
Quran 33:35

 

[Todd]

This position raises a question for me...

Is it your view that God, having, on the one hand had His ultimate plan of salvation in mind from the outset, failed monumentally to preserve that message. The logical implications of this surely raises grave concerns for the idea of Gods foreknowledge?

God doesn't fail. Man has failed and will continual to fail until Christ returns.
The bigger issue is that God's ultimate plan of salvation is far greater than anything we can experience in this present lifetime/age. We see dimly now, but will see much more clearly in the ages to come. God's plan for salvation does not end with physical death and removal from this present age.

 

[Todd]

I would like to add that without the revelation that Paul gives there is basically no salvation for anyone unless they are non gentile, because prior to Paul there had only been salvation for the Jews.

That is not correct. Peter received the revelation that the gospel was also for Gentiles before Paul appeared on the scene. The notion that salvation was only for the Jews isn't even correct from an OT standpoint. Israel was supposed to be light unto all the nations in the OT and they were supposed to lead other nations into the obedience of Yahew. Salvation (the acceptance of the terms of the Old covenant) was available to all people in the OT, not just the Hebrews. The idiom of "salvation by the Jews" simply refers to the fact that in the OT, God chose the hebrew people to make his salvation know to the world. It was never meant to be exclusively for the Jews.

It would basically mean there is no hope for anyone here claiming to be Christian unless they are Jewish. Not to mention Peter and John refer to Paul as a brother in their epistles, yet if he was leading many astray they wouldnt have approved of his apostleship in their epistles.

I call many people brother who I do not agree with completely on doctrine. Calling someone a brother is not the same as condoing all their teaching or doctrine.

The book of James is a clear refute of some of the teachings of Paul, to anyone who removes the indoctrination of the instituional church from their eyes.

I don't hate Paul. I have learned many things from his writings, but he was not infallible.

 

[elsbet]

“Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness” (vv. 14–15a).

Sounds like sleep paralysis.

Spoiler

Sleep paralysis may include hypnagogic hallucinations, such as a supernatural creature suffocating or terrifying the individual, accompanied by a feeling of pressure on one's chest and difficulty breathing.

Link-> [8]

 

[Lyfe]

Todd that occurrence of when Peter preached to Cornelius and the first gentiles is recorded in the book of acts, and its the same author of the book of acts seems to legitimize Paul's apostleship and even records the disciples and Paul frequently convening and discussing matters of the the word of God. So thats at the very least two books after the initial 4 gospels that confirm Pauls apostleship.

If one was led to believe that Paul's apostleship wasn't divinely appointed they would also have to completely disregard the book of acts or at the very least label it another fallible book w/ errors that somehow made into into the Bible.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Exactly. Which is why, if we are not careful, we may be of those will unwittingly become the followers of the Antichrist. That's a scary thought.

I have been pondering your comment. I wonder if we might have an exchange of information? Do you have a good Islamic teaching on YouTube for the identity of the AC? Obviously I have a rather sketchy idea of what Muslims believe about his identity and what might make people recognise him.

Here is a Christian teaching of the subject for cross reference, unpacking the “packet” if you like that should give people who know an indication of his identity (should he show up)...

 

[Cintra]

Were they Catholics?

No! lol!
They thought all the catholics were going to hell...

Fundamentalist evangelical protestants.

Part of the reason I am here is to try and make sense of everything that happened back then.
Which is why I find Lisa so interesting to talk to, as her views are very similar to the ones I grew up with.

 

[Cintra]

... AGAIN you can't even tell me what to do and what to believe in while you're not even experienced with Christianity or at least understand it for that matter.

So you can tell others what to believe, but they cant tell you?

Hypocrite.

 

[Todd]

Which is why I find Lisa so interesting to talk to, as her views are very similar to the ones I grew up with.

Oh you poor thing!