Right and Wrong ways to reach the lost?

Lisa

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He brings up some good points about reaching the lost..specifically muslims..but I think one can also think about it in context of reaching the lost and not just muslims.

I have been accused of not giving a good testimony myself...about how I drive people away from accepting Jesus because I’m too confrontational...citing different verses telling me I’m wrong...while they try the nice guy approach to reaching the lost and think that’s the better approach. No wonder then that I think this video interesting. Personally, I think the nice guy approach is too neat and if your trying to please man, you really aren’t pleasing God. If the people you are trying to reach are comfortable with you...perhaps you are doing something wrong?

All I know is that the world hated Jesus and they won’t do any less for us...if we think that’s the case, then I think we are fooling ourselves.
 






Dalit

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Here's the thing though and please don't take this as being criticism, at least other than constructive criticism. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. If people are turned off by your presentation of the gospel (which is good news), then they're not going to see it as the good news it truly is.

I challenge you and anyone to ask the people closest to you where your flaws lie, where you have attitudes, etc. Tell them to be brutally honest. It will hurt. It's good hurt though.

For example, someone told me something that I thought was crazy and it hurt, but I thought "Here's an opportunity to see if this is true." I had a mature response to this. I went and asked a non-believer because I thought "She's an atheist and will tell me the truth". She praised me and said she wanted to kick the patootie of the person who said something mean about me. But then I'm not that close to her and it's more a business relationship than a true friendship. So I asked one of my closest friends. She was too nice. Then I asked my mom. We're getting somewhere here. Here's the truth. She told me that no, what the person said was uncalled for, but I can come off as cold and insensitive sometimes. Ouch! It hurt! I've heard "aloof" and "stuck up" to describe me when I was younger because I was painfully shy and came off as rude. Sometimes I was just rude. I stood up straight and looked right through people.

So consider asking your husband and children to be brutally honest with you without fear of retaliation. Hear the hard stuff. It will help you grow.

I'm now trying to be extremely sensitive and warm with my family. She was right about me.
 






Lisa

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Here's the thing though and please don't take this as being criticism, at least other than constructive criticism. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. If people are turned off by your presentation of the gospel (which is good news), then they're not going to see it as the good news it truly is.

I challenge you and anyone to ask the people closest to you where your flaws lie, where you have attitudes, etc. Tell them to be brutally honest. It will hurt. It's good hurt though.

For example, someone told me something that I thought was crazy and it hurt, but I thought "Here's an opportunity to see if this is true." I had a mature response to this. I went and asked a non-believer because I thought "She's an atheist and will tell me the truth". She praised me and said she wanted to kick the patootie of the person who said something mean about me. But then I'm not that close to her and it's more a business relationship than a true friendship. So I asked one of my closest friends. She was too nice. Then I asked my mom. We're getting somewhere here. Here's the truth. She told me that no, what the person said was uncalled for, but I can come off as cold and insensitive sometimes. Ouch! It hurt! I've heard "aloof" and "stuck up" to describe me when I was younger because I was painfully shy and came off as rude. Sometimes I was just rude. I stood up straight and looked right through people.

So consider asking your husband and children to be brutally honest with you without fear of retaliation. Hear the hard stuff. It will help you grow.

I'm now trying to be extremely sensitive and warm with my family. She was right about me.
I appreciate your reply, Dalit. Did you ever think of praying to God about it?

I had the same sort of situation when I was a teen. Thinking that listening to a friend tell me what I should do to change..made me worse in that I stopped being me and started being someone I thought everyone could like..in the end I became a doormat. You could say it was because I was only a teen..but I took what this person said and decided to change myself.

I think of this psalm
Psalms‬ ‭32:8‬ ‭
I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you.​
‭‭
It’s only God that can truly change us and help us to be the people He wants us to be and I think He is able to use the not so great portions of us for His glory. I also think of the verses about being salt and light.
Matthew‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭
You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.​
‭‭
I don’t think the answer is to become the Christian people think you need to be, but to be the Christian that you are.

Anyway...I’m open to debating this subject with you or anyone else. :)
 






Dalit

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I appreciate your reply, Dalit. Did you ever think of praying to God about it?
Prayer was the first thing I did.
I don’t think the answer is to become the Christian people think you need to be, but to be the Christian that you are.
Interesting statement. Maybe it's not so much who you are, but if your behavior or manner of speaking is continually off putting and you're leading no one to Christ, perhaps it is time for a different approach?

P.S. If your close loved ones are not telling you the truth and not challenging you to grow, that means you are intimidating them. They may fear telling you the truth. Please realize if enough people are saying your approach is off putting, they may be right.
 






Lisa

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Prayer was the first thing I did.

Interesting statement. Maybe it's not so much who you are, but if your behavior or manner of speaking is continually off putting and you're leading no one to Christ, perhaps it is time for a different approach?

P.S. If your close loved ones are not telling you the truth and not challenging you to grow, that means you are intimidating them. They may fear telling you the truth. Please realize if enough people are saying your approach is off putting, they may be right.
What approach could I do now if my approach is off putting? Wouldn’t people just see through that? And is the end game leading people to Christ? Is my victory someone led to Christ...or is it my following God? Perhaps, I’m the one who sows the seeds? In that case, I may never see anyone come to Christ.

Reminds me of when my niece came for a visit. Because of the relationship I have with my sister...we didn’t see each other for long periods of time..but she came for a visit and brought my niece. I shared the Good News with her..when they came and she was a kid..obviously I‘m not going to speak to her as an adult..but I did share the Good News. I didn’t see or talk to my sister for years after. When my niece came for that visit a couple of years ago, that’s when I found out that my talking to her about the Good News had put her on the path to seeking God and that God had put other people in her path too. So, I was just a step towards God. I don’t mind being the step towards God. One could have thought that because she didn’t become a Christian right then, that I had failed...but did I fail?

How do you know that my family isn’t honest with me or challenging me? I always have to take what people say to me to God in prayer. Only God really knows how to change us and knows how He’s going to do that.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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About eight years ago now, I realised I had, by degrees, become hedonistic, entitled, aloof, dishonest and as the Brits put it, a bit of an arse! The reality of this patchwork of rags that formed the impression I gave of myself was a shock because I honestly didn’t mean to be that way, it just happened by degrees.

It took a period of deep repentance as disruptive to my life as digging up a road is to traffic, followed by an even longer period where I had to live out the changes in me before those closest to me started to believe there had been a real change in me. Any change for the good I now have had been through God’s grace and patience with me.
 






JoChris

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There are no evangelism formulas for getting through to lost people.
On large scale: I know there are patterns of belief systems that will tend to make some approaches better for some groups respond to diplomacy, and some groups who respond to direct confrontation.

The average person won't be doing street evangelism though. For us we need to learn how we communicate most effectively AND pray for God's wisdom when interacting with non-believers.

Online I have tried the soft tactful approach but respondees don't seem to understand what I am trying to get across. Now I try to get my point across most clearly while making sure I give the message with evidence to support my position (that way no outside reader will fall for the accusation I am personally attacking a certain individual).

When I learn that the respondee is determined to reject whatever I type - no matter how much scripture and evidence is provided - I leave them be and pray that God will get through to them some other way. Some people are gifted at long term debating with determined disbelievers, I do not believe I have that gift.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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There are no evangelism formulas for getting through to lost people.
On large scale: I know there are patterns of belief systems that will tend to make some approaches better for some groups respond to diplomacy, and some groups who respond to direct confrontation.

The average person won't be doing street evangelism though. For us we need to learn how we communicate most effectively AND pray for God's wisdom when interacting with non-believers.

Online I have tried the soft tactful approach but respondees don't seem to understand what I am trying to get across. Now I try to get my point across most clearly while making sure I give the message with evidence to support my position (that way no outside reader will fall for the accusation I am personally attacking a certain individual).

When I learn that the respondee is determined to reject whatever I type - no matter how much scripture and evidence is provided - I leave them be and pray that God will get through to them some other way. Some people are gifted at long term debating with determined disbelievers, I do not believe I have that gift.
I just had a picture of a garden - somebody needs to break up the rocks and maybe someone else tills the ground and waters it. We are all different and I think the main thing is that we know the peace and joy of the Lord doing the thing He has called us to.
 






TokiEl

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I tell them to repent or i'll beat the crap out of them.

Works every time.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Red Sky at Morning

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No, Circlejerk;
(Internet slang) An online community where a group of people form an echo chamber.
There is a time to revisit the ABCs @Infinityloop and a time to move on from them.

Colossians 2:8-23 (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil [rob] you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

If you really want to find out if “Christianity is true”, Christians claim to worship the living God who hears and answers prayers. He knows you through and through and will answer you if you come to Him in humility.

With the events going on in the world now, who knows what may happen next, but this one thing I do know - Jesus died for me and if I end up “raptured” of die coughing up my lungs, the next moment I will be in the presence of the Lord by His grace.

I remembered an old hymn yesterday which seems to fit with your question of how Christians “know”:-

 






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If you really want to find out if “Christianity is true”, Christians claim to worship the living God who hears and answers prayers. He knows you through and through and will answer you if you come to Him in humility. With the events going on in the world now, who knows what may happen next, but this one thing I do know - Jesus died for me and if I end up “raptured” of die coughing up my lungs, the next moment I will be in the presence of the Lord by His grace.
Ah yes this again. You don't have to remind people how special you think you are to the detriment of everyone else. You've been doing this for 2000 years in various forms. Pure hypocrisy. You hold people to things which you yourself staunchly avoid doing for them.

Your 'personal relationship' false doctrine is Unbiblical and Atheists truly do have valid merit likening your Protestant, postmodern relativistic demeaning of God (via the idolatry of Jesus-worship) into a 'sky buddy superman best-friend'. Such a massive blasphemous insult to the God is Abraham and Israel.

You're just asking to go through what has been gone through a million times before, which you still haven't grasped even in the simplest sense.

You truly have nothing of value in your post, only a "what if?", which does nothing for anyone who searches for truth. Christians aren't the only ones who have experiences, most religious people do and most religions cultivate them in different ways. Reciting your rapture script is likewise senseless, all Christians (that aren't from modern evangelical Protestant sects/cults) all laugh at your absurd beliefs with zeal.

If you decided to speak on common terms, maybe you'd have lightswitch moments (which I doubt ever happen for you). Such a limited perspective of even your own religion that you give me "U nut a Krishchin, U need meh gawd, Ur lest, gawd dyed four ow siens! U go 2 hael!"

I just perhaps wrongly expect as an adult that speaking to adults shouldn't be like speaking to preschoolers, maybe it's my fault for having higher hopes of people passed middle-age. I guess I'm just a rare one for preferring adults to converse like adults.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Ah yes this again. You don't have to remind people how special you think you are to the detriment of everyone else. You've been doing this for 2000 years in various forms. Pure hypocrisy. You hold people to things which you yourself staunchly avoid doing for them.

Your 'personal relationship' false doctrine is Unbiblical and Atheists truly do have valid merit likening your Protestant, postmodern relativistic demeaning of God (via the idolatry of Jesus-worship) into a 'sky buddy superman best-friend'. Such a massive blasphemous insult to the God is Abraham and Israel.

You're just asking to go through what has been gone through a million times before, which you still haven't grasped even in the simplest sense.

You truly have nothing of value in your post, only a "what if?", which does nothing for anyone who searches for truth. Christians aren't the only ones who have experiences, most religious people do and most religions cultivate them in different ways. Reciting your rapture script is likewise senseless, all Christians (that aren't from modern evangelical Protestant sects/cults) all laugh at your absurd beliefs with zeal.

If you decided to speak on common terms, maybe you'd have lightswitch moments (which I doubt ever happen for you). Such a limited perspective of even your own religion that you give me "U nut a Krishchin, U need meh gawd, Ur lest, gawd dyed four ow siens! U go 2 hael!"

I just perhaps wrongly expect as an adult that speaking to adults shouldn't be like speaking to preschoolers, maybe it's my fault for having higher hopes of people passed middle-age. I guess I'm just a rare one for preferring adults to converse like adults.
Dear @Infinityloop

The difficulty in conveying the Gospel outside relationship with the Lord is that there is only so far intellectual debate will take you. You are probably familiar with Plato’s Cave, as story which reflects the difficulty of conveying the “outside” to people who have never been out. Jesus offers to take you by the hand and lead you out of that cave, and it is in relationship with Him that things come into perspective. He is able to make Himself known to you, if you are willing to seek.

As for intellectual “epistemological” questions, I would say that they can take you so far, but no further, in the same way as a car might take you to a space shuttle launch site, but never help you to reach the moon.

As for being “better” by being redeemed, there is nothing to boast about in grace, repentance and atonement. Nobody will be in heaven because they deserve it, that’s why Revelation records the continual praise and gratitude of the saints.

Nobody can come to God in their terms, people are in no position to bargain and they must come on His, as little children.
 






Cintra

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Interesting subject.

But why would anyone feel it was their place to 'reach' anyone, and try to change their beliefs?
Unless the person had come to them asking?

It's not anyone elses concern what I believe. Yet Jehovah's Witnesses feel that its their business to come and interrupt my day, tell me I am wrong, they are right, and I am just supposed to believe it on their say so.

They feel it is their right to pry into my mind and my thoughts, label me, categorise me as 'lost', and undertake the unasked for revision of my life.
Because they think they are right, and they thing I am wrong, and they believe they have the authority to come and knock on my door and mess with my head.

I am all for freedom of belief.
You believe what you like, I will believe what I like. We agree to disagree.
You don't have the right to bang on my door and wave your beliefs in my face like a challenge.
You don't have the right to 'correct' the parts of me that you perceive as 'wrong'.

If I wanted a religion I would go to a relevant person and express an interest.. I know where to find them.
I don't need someone coming to my house and getting in my face.
And if you do that to me, to be honest, if and when I do go looking for a belief system, it won't be yours. Because you knocked on the door and made me burn the chips.

Note.
The 'you' in this post is either a general you, or a specific pair of JWs who made me burn the chips.
It is not directed to any individual on this forum.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Interesting subject.

But why would anyone feel it was their place to 'reach' anyone, and try to change their beliefs?
Unless the person had come to them asking?

It's not anyone elses concern what I believe. Yet Jehovah's Witnesses feel that its their business to come and interrupt my day, tell me I am wrong, they are right, and I am just supposed to believe it on their say so.

They feel it is their right to pry into my mind and my thoughts, label me, categorise me as 'lost', and undertake the unasked for revision of my life.
Because they think they are right, and they thing I am wrong, and they believe they have the authority to come and knock on my door and mess with my head.

I am all for freedom of belief.
You believe what you like, I will believe what I like. We agree to disagree.
You don't have the right to bang on my door and wave your beliefs in my face like a challenge.
You don't have the right to 'correct' the parts of me that you perceive as 'wrong'.

If I wanted a religion I would go to a relevant person and express an interest.. I know where to find them.
I don't need someone coming to my house and getting in my face.
And if you do that to me, to be honest, if and when I do go looking for a belief system, it won't be yours. Because you knocked on the door and made me burn the chips.

Note.
The 'you' in this post is either a general you, or a specific pair of JWs who made me burn the chips.
It is not directed to any individual on this forum.
What do you make of these words from Acts 1?


7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
 






Dalit

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Interesting subject.

But why would anyone feel it was their place to 'reach' anyone, and try to change their beliefs?
Unless the person had come to them asking?

It's not anyone elses concern what I believe. Yet Jehovah's Witnesses feel that its their business to come and interrupt my day, tell me I am wrong, they are right, and I am just supposed to believe it on their say so.

They feel it is their right to pry into my mind and my thoughts, label me, categorise me as 'lost', and undertake the unasked for revision of my life.
Because they think they are right, and they thing I am wrong, and they believe they have the authority to come and knock on my door and mess with my head.

I am all for freedom of belief.
You believe what you like, I will believe what I like. We agree to disagree.
You don't have the right to bang on my door and wave your beliefs in my face like a challenge.
You don't have the right to 'correct' the parts of me that you perceive as 'wrong'.

If I wanted a religion I would go to a relevant person and express an interest.. I know where to find them.
I don't need someone coming to my house and getting in my face.
And if you do that to me, to be honest, if and when I do go looking for a belief system, it won't be yours. Because you knocked on the door and made me burn the chips.

Note.
The 'you' in this post is either a general you, or a specific pair of JWs who made me burn the chips.
It is not directed to any individual on this forum.
I'm with you on the not wanting strangers to come to your house. Unfortunately, it is legal for people to solicit door-to-door.
 






Tidal

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..When I learn that the respondee is determined to reject whatever I type - no matter how much scripture and evidence is provided - I leave them be and pray that God will get through to them some other way. Some people are gifted at long term debating with determined disbelievers, I do not believe I have that gift.

Thank your lucky stars mate because It's not a gift, it's a curse!
I know christians who think they're obliged to engage in lengthy debate with nonchristians and they end up feeling drained and tired because they disregard these verses-

"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Provs 13:20)
"Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him" (Titus 3:9-11)
"Withdraw from disorderly unbelievers" (2 Thess 3:6)
"Keep away from profane babblers" (1 Tim 6:20/21)
"Don't sit with vain hypocritical evildoers" (Psa 26:4/5)
"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words" (Proverbs 23:9)

Jesus said "If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)

In short, their bad vibes have the same weakening effect on us like kryptonite has on Superman, so we should steer clear of them and only associate with people who make us feel good.. :)

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)
 






Cintra

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What do you make of these words from Acts 1?


7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
There are many ways to witness. Not all of them include haranguing other people, telling them they are wrong and that they must change. (not saying you do that)

Honestly, its the thing most likely to make me not believe.
 






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