Revelation

[TokiEl]

The beast from the sea.

From Daniel we learn this endtime beast looks like a leopard with the mouth of a lion and the feet of a bear (needless to say these are three well known nations in fact former colonial empires whose kings were cousins). The seven heads are seven successive world powers from Babylon to MedoPersia to Greece to Rome to the Holy Roman empire to the German empire to the Third reich.

Therefore a Fourth reich or more precise a revived Third reich is a Scriptural surety.


The people of the world are described as being very surprised when they see the healed seventh head rising to reign over the earth.

 

[phipps]

Comparing Daniel 7 and Revelation 13

Summary: Revelation 13 discusses two beasts: the beast from the sea and the beast from the earth. These beasts will have great authority at the end of time and use their power to enforce the Beast's mark. The first beast of Revelation 13 has seven heads and ten horns—and the same attributes as the little horn of Daniel 7.

"…And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:1,8,11-12,16).

This passage describes two beasts that will dominate world events at the end of time. The first arises out of the sea, and the second out of the earth. The second beast causes all that dwell upon the earth to worship the first beast, and in so doing they receive the mark of the Beast. Again, by applying the Biblical definitions to the symbols employed in this great prophecy, we can unravel its mysteries.

The core symbols are beasts, heads, horns, sea, dragon, and earth. A beast represents a king or a kingdom according to Daniel 7:17. The two beasts of Revelation 13 thus represent two kingdoms or political powers that dominate world events in the last days.

The first beast arose out of the sea. Revelation 17:15 tells us that the sea represents “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Therefore the first beast arose from nations (inhabited territory). In contrast, the second beast arises out of the earth, which represents the opposite of nations, multitudes, and kingdoms. Therefore, the second beast must arise in areas of the world where nations, multitudes, and kings were not established (uninhabited territory).

The first of the two beasts of Revelation 13 is the same power as the terrible fourth beast in Daniel 7.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Revelation 13:1-2).

The first beast in this passage has ten horns, just like the terrible fourth beast in Daniel 7. Both of these beasts represent Rome, as shown in the chart below.

The Beast from the Sea and the Little Horn Power

This beast also has the same attributes as the little horn power of Daniel 7:

As we compare the two prophecies, we see that the first beast of Revelation 13 and the little horn of Daniel 7 are one and the same, both representing papal Rome.

Five main points of Revelation 13 clearly indicate that the first beast is none other than the little horn power of Daniel 7—the Antichrist Roman power:
Inherited Characteristics
Papal Rome (the first beast) emerges out of Pagan Rome
Forty-two Month Time Period
A Mouth to Utter Proud Words
World Power

In addition, Revelation 13 tells us more details about the first beast to help us establish its identity more clearly:
The Counterfeit Wound
The Number of a Man

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/comparing-daniel-7-and-revelation-13#_

 

[TokiEl]

As we compare the two prophecies, we see that the first beast of Revelation 13 and the little horn of Daniel 7 are one and the same, both representing papal Rome.

Revelation 13 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

The world will be very surprised when it sees the healed head rising to reign...

This is not papal Rome but the revived Third reich.

 

[Thunderian]

I'm giving up on Revelation 4. In the first verse, John is on earth. In the second verse, he's suddenly in Heaven's throne room. I guess I'm just too stupid to see those verses as implying anything other than I have just described. The picture of a believer being on earth one minute, and then suddenly, instantly, in the presence of Jesus Christ, is literally how Paul describes the Rapture.

No I don't agree about the redemption of Israel because it is not biblical.

This is really the key issue. I don't know how to read the Bible in a way that makes me ignore God's plan for Israel, including a time when the entire nation will call on Jesus Christ and acknowledge him as their Messiah. God has made far too many promises to Israel for me to believe he is done with them. Plus, Paul explicitly tells us he's not.

It is a man made doctrine not based in the Bible. Israel are in the same boat as all of us. If they accept Jesus as their personal Saviour and obey His precepts they will be saved as all of us who choose to do the same.

Yes, individual Jews are saved the same way we are, but Paul wrote that one day, all Israel will be saved. How is that not a redemption of Israel? A unified and believing nation of Israel will then finally inherit the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and it's also then that prophecies regarding the reign of Jesus Christ on earth will be fulfilled.

If I am out to lunch, please explain the following passage from Jeremiah:

Jer 33:14​

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.​

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Jer 33:15​

In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.​

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Jer 33:16​

In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.​

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Jer 33:17​

For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;​

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Jer 33:18​

Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.​

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Jer 33:19​

And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,​

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Jer 33:20​

Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;​

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Jer 33:21​

Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.​

​

The way I read it, there will be a time when Jesus Christ will rule the earth from the throne of a saved and redeemed Israel, and God has said that if this doesn't happen, it would mean the end of day and night.

But tell me, how would you interpret that passage?

 

[Thunderian]

Comparing Daniel 7 and Revelation 13

Summary: Revelation 13 discusses two beasts: the beast from the sea and the beast from the earth. These beasts will have great authority at the end of time and use their power to enforce the Beast's mark. The first beast of Revelation 13 has seven heads and ten horns—and the same attributes as the little horn of Daniel 7.

"…And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:1,8,11-12,16).

This passage describes two beasts that will dominate world events at the end of time. The first arises out of the sea, and the second out of the earth. The second beast causes all that dwell upon the earth to worship the first beast, and in so doing they receive the mark of the Beast. Again, by applying the Biblical definitions to the symbols employed in this great prophecy, we can unravel its mysteries.

The core symbols are beasts, heads, horns, sea, dragon, and earth. A beast represents a king or a kingdom according to Daniel 7:17. The two beasts of Revelation 13 thus represent two kingdoms or political powers that dominate world events in the last days.

The first beast arose out of the sea. Revelation 17:15 tells us that the sea represents “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Therefore the first beast arose from nations (inhabited territory). In contrast, the second beast arises out of the earth, which represents the opposite of nations, multitudes, and kingdoms. Therefore, the second beast must arise in areas of the world where nations, multitudes, and kings were not established (uninhabited territory).

The first of the two beasts of Revelation 13 is the same power as the terrible fourth beast in Daniel 7.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Revelation 13:1-2).

The first beast in this passage has ten horns, just like the terrible fourth beast inDaniel 7. Both of these beasts represent Rome, as shown in the chart below.

The Beast from the Sea and the Little Horn Power

This beast also has the same attributes as the little horn power of Daniel 7:

As we compare the two prophecies, we see that the first beast of Revelation 13 and the little horn of Daniel 7 are one and the same, both representing papal Rome.

Five main points of Revelation 13 clearly indicate that the first beast is none other than the little horn power of Daniel 7—the Antichrist Roman power:
Inherited Characteristics
Papal Rome (the first beast) emerges out of Pagan Rome
Forty-two Month Time Period
A Mouth to Utter Proud Words
World Power

In addition, Revelation 13 tells us more details about the first beast to help us establish its identity more clearly:
The Counterfeit Wound
The Number of a Man

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/comparing-daniel-7-and-revelation-13#_

Is it your belief that none of this has happened yet?

 

[Thunderian]

whoever against Christ is called antichrist cuz they are led by the spirit of antichrist. There are many of it but THE antichrist is called the beast in the book of revelation. The beast is called THE antichrist cuz he is uttering haughty and blasphemous words. If not the antichrist then what do u want? :V anti-god? same thing.

Rev 13:5 And the beast was given mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.​

​

The antichrist is kind of the name that everyone uses for convenience. I tend to think of him as the man of sin, or the son of perdition, which are two of his many other titles, but I use antichrist out of long habit.

​

1. The Bloody and Deceitful man.​

- Psalms 5:6 (KJV) Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.​

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2. The Wicked One.​

- Psalms 10:3-4 (KJV) 3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth. 4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.​

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3. The Man of the Earth.​

- Psalms 10:18 (KJV) To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.​

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4. The Mighty Man.​

- Psalms 52:1 (KJV) Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God endureth continually.​

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5. The Enemy.​

- Psalms 55:3 (KJV) Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.​

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6. The Adversary.​

- Psalms 74:10 (KJV) O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?​

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7. The Violent Man.​

- Psalms 140:1 (KJV) Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;​

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8. The Spoiler.​

- Isaiah 16:4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.​

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9. The Profane and Wicked Prince.​

- Ezekiel 21:25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,​

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10. The Little Horn.​

- Daniel 7:8 (KJV) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.​

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11. The Prince that Shall come.​

- Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.​

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12. The Vile Person.​

- Daniel 11:21 (KJV) And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.​

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13. The Willful King.​

- Daniel 11:36 (KJV) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.​

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14. The Man of Sin.​

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

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15. The Son of Perdition.​

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

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16. The Lawless One.​

- 2 Thessalonians 2:9 (KJV) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,​

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17. The Antichrist.​

- 1 John 2:22 (KJV) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.​

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18. The Beast.​

- Revelation 11:7 (KJV) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.​

- Revelation 13:1 (KJV) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.​

 

[phipps]

@Thunderian

I'm giving up on Revelation 4. In the first verse, John is on earth. In the second verse, he's suddenly in Heaven's throne room. I guess I'm just too stupid to see those verses as implying anything other than I have just described. The picture of a believer being on earth one minute, and then suddenly, instantly, in the presence of Jesus Christ, is literally how Paul describes the Rapture.

John never went to heaven physically in the book of Revelation. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." Revelation 4:1-2. Being in the Spirit means a vision, not John being physically in heaven. We are not going to heaven in the spirit. We are going to heaven with new and incorruptible bodies as Paul tells us in1 Corinthians. The body and spirit are never separated in the Bible unless people are dead.

Also if you will do some research in the Bible, anyone who went to heaven never came back to live on earth again. That would be very cruel of God to do and we know He is not cruel.

You've misunderstood Jesus' second coming as Paul describes it. I do not use the word "rapture" in my daily vocabulary. Paul says, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Corinthians 15:52-53). After being changed, "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). That means every believer will rise off the ground and meet Christ in the air together. They are not suddenly in heaven are they? Unless the air means heaven.

This is really the key issue. I don't know how to read the Bible in a way that makes me ignore God's plan for Israel, including a time when the entire nation will call on Jesus Christ and acknowledge him as their Messiah. God has made far too many promises to Israel for me to believe he is done with them. Plus, Paul explicitly tells us he's not.

You have been shown by others and me from scripture what Israel stands for now since Israel stopped being the chosen people 2000 years ago. Jesus and Paul and the whole of the New Testament make it clear that all the prophecies and promises that were for literal Israel now belong to those who accept Jesus as their personal Saviour and obey and submit to Him.

Yes, individual Jews are saved the same way we are, but Paul wrote that one day, all Israel will be saved. How is that not a redemption of Israel? A unified and believing nation of Israel will then finally inherit the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and it's also then that prophecies regarding the reign of Jesus Christ on earth will be fulfilled.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God" (Romans 2:28-29).

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:26-29).

"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy" (1 Peter 2:9-10).


"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."" (Revelation 3:12-13).

Isn't it clear to you what Israel is according to Paul and the New Testament in general? So after you understand what Israel is (which is very clear actually) then we understand what Paul meant when he said, “And so all Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26). Indeed all Israel will be saved. We become a “true Jew” by our choices whether one is Jew or not. Its not about chromosomes and genes, its about faith and obedience to God. I will have to repeat that God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different one for non-Jews. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program, by grace through faith.

I am out to lunch, please explain the following passage from Jeremiah:

I'm not going to explain all those scripture you've put up because Jesus, Paul and the rest of the New Testament make it clear who is Israel. So all those promises are for Israel which includes Jews and Gentiles. Paul wrote, "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith" (Romans 11:16-20).

The way I read it, there will be a time when Jesus Christ will rule the earth from the throne of a saved and redeemed Israel, and God has said that if this doesn't happen, it would mean the end of day and night.

But tell me, how would you interpret that passage?

This is not my interpretation, this is the interpretation of the Bible. If God were to save all literal Jews no matter whast they did, it would contradict every principle of God’s dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture. God is not a racist and so doesn't favour Jews just because they are Jews. In Jesus’ eyes, “There is neither Jew nor Greek” (Galatians 3:28). We are saved based on the choices we make not on national status or physical citizenship.

 

[phipps]

Is it your belief that none of this has happened yet?

You know some of it is past and some future as the explanations make clear.

 

[Thunderian]

I'm not going to explain all those scripture you've put up because Jesus, Paul and the rest of the New Testament make it clear who is Israel.

You're not going to explain them because you can't. You can't explain what that passage means, and you can't explain why you can't explain it. It's easier for you to say God didn't really make those promises, or if he did, he didn't really mean them.

Anyone who reads the Bible for themselves can see that Paul wasn't saying that we become Israel. Paul is saying that Jews who become saved are the true Israel. We are children of Abraham by faith, but his physical descendants are the ones who were promised the land, their redemption, and Jesus Christ on the throne of David. The throne of David is a physical, literal, political throne. There is no reason anywhere in scripture that should lead anyone to believe that God has suddenly stopped literally fulfilling his promises.

The only reason the heresy of allegorical interpretation started was because the Roman church became so powerful that the idea of an evil one-world government started to make them nervous. The wretched doctrine of Replacement Theology grew from that. The reformation threw out a lot of heretical teaching, but it missed that one, the damage that's been caused because of it has been terrible.

 

[Thunderian]

You know some of is past and some future as the explanations make clear.

From your post, it looks like it's all future. I am wondering what methods you use to determine what is past and what is future.

My method is, if it hasn't happened yet, it's still future.

 

[phipps]

@Thunderian

You're not going to explain them because you can't. You can't explain what that passage means, and you can't explain why you can't explain it. It's easier for you to say God didn't really make those promises, or if he did, he didn't really mean them.

I already did but you ignore it all to favour your man made doctrine. There is neither Jew nor Greek. I am a Jew and want to be till Jesus returns and forever. That is what the Bible says.

Anyone who reads the Bible for themselves can see that Paul wasn't saying that we become Israel. Paul is saying that Jews who become saved are the true Israel. We are children of Abraham by faith, but his physical descendants are the ones who were promised the land, their redemption, and Jesus Christ on the throne of David. The throne of David is a physical, literal, political throne. There is no reason anywhere in scripture that should lead anyone to believe that God has suddenly stopped literally fulfilling his promises.

Quote where Paul says "physical descendants are the ones who were promised the land, their redemption, and Jesus Christ on the throne of David." I already explained how this goes against God's character. You are wrong about Israel. I pray that God will reveal this truth to you because your doctrine is saying that all Jews will be saved even if they sin wilfully and don't believe in Jesus as their personal Saviour. Is a God a liar who told us otherwise?

The only reason the heresy of allegorical interpretation started was because the Roman church became so powerful that the idea of an evil one-world government started to make them nervous. The wretched doctrine of Replacement Theology grew from that. The reformation threw out a lot of heretical teaching, but it missed that one, the damage that's been caused because of it has been terrible.

I don't think this statement was meant for this post.[/QUOTE]

 

[phipps]

From your post, it looks like it's all future. I am wondering what methods you use to determine what is past and what is future.

My method is, if it hasn't happened yet, it's still future.

From your post, it looks like it's all future. I am wondering what methods you use to determine what is past and what is future.

Well it isn't if you bothered to read my whole post on it. Some of it is past and some of it future under the same power. The times starts from the rebuilding of the temple in the book of Daniel to end. We calculate from that time.

My method is, if it hasn't happened yet, it's still future.

That's my method too and should be everyone's. I will post more info on Revelation 13 and hopefully you will clearly that there is past and future in the prophecies of Revelation 13.

 

[Thunderian]

I guess when Paul talks about the Jew, the Gentile and the Church as separate things, he really means the Church, the Gentile and the Church. Because that makes sense.

1Co 10:32​

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:​

 

[Thunderian]

Well it isn't if you bothered to read my whole post on it. Some of it is past and some of it future under the same power. The times starts from the rebuilding of the temple in the book of Daniel to end. We calculate from that time.

I did read the post, but it all seemed future to me. When was the temple rebuilt?

 

[phipps]

I guess when Paul talks about the Jew, the Gentile and the Church as separate things, he really means the Church, the Gentile and the Church. Because that makes sense.

1Co 10:32​

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:​

Paul does not separate between Jews and Gentiles unless he is making a point. Give no offence to everyone is what Paul means. The verses from 1 Corinthians10:23-33 are about doing all to the glory of God.

There are sinners and God's people who are Israel and the Church. They are all the same thing. As longs as we have faith and keep Jesus' commandments, we are Israel and the Church as I've shown you from scripture.

 

[phipps]

I did read the post, but it all seemed future to me. When was the temple rebuilt?

Well its not only future. As I said I will post more on the subject.

 

[Thunderian]

Please, everyone, read this prophecy from Zechariah, but wherever it mentions anything to do with Israel, we'll just substitute the word "Church".

Zec 12:9​

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against [The Church].​

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Zec 12:10​

And I will pour upon [The Church], and upon [The Church], the spirit of grace and of supplications: and [The Church] shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and [The Church] shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and [The Church] shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.​

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Zec 12:11​

In that day shall there be a great mourning in [The Church], as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.​

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Zec 12:12​

And [The Church] shall mourn, every family apart; the family of [The Church] apart, and their wives apart; the family of [The Church] apart, and their wives apart;​

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Zec 12:13​

[The Church] apart, and their wives apart; [The Church] apart, and their wives apart;​

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Does that sound as silly to everyone else as it does to me? Yet, that's what Replacement Theology would have us believe.

You can do your own exercises. Just find a place that a literal reading would refer to Israel, and replace it with the Church.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Please, everyone, read this prophecy from Zechariah, but wherever it mentions anything to do with Israel, we'll just substitute the word "Church".

Zec 12:9​

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against [The Church].​

​

Zec 12:10​

And I will pour upon [The Church], and upon [The Church], the spirit of grace and of supplications: and [The Church] shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and [The Church] shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and [The Church] shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.​

​

Zec 12:11​

In that day shall there be a great mourning in [The Church], as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.​

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Zec 12:12​

And [The Church] shall mourn, every family apart; the family of [The Church] apart, and their wives apart; the family of [The Church] apart, and their wives apart;​

​

Zec 12:13​

[The Church] apart, and their wives apart; [The Church] apart, and their wives apart;​

​

Does that sound as silly to everyone else as it does to me? Yet, that's what Replacement Theology would have us believe.

You can do your own exercises. Just find a place that a literal reading would refer to Israel, and replace it with the Church.

It really doesn’t work, does it?!

 

[Thunderian]

It really doesn’t work, does it?!

Replacing Israel with the Church makes God a liar.

 

[bible_student]

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and ALL the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your WORKS.
- King of kings' bible