Revelation

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I'm not finding that in my Bible.
Revelation 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
 





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Revelation 13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
Can you please give references for things you say? I was looking through Daniel trying to understand what you're talking about.

The Beast's empire is being portrayed as a system of governance, just as the Babylonian, Persian and Greek systems/empires were.

Is this the first time you've heard any of this? Doesn't it make way more sense?
 





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I'm not finding that in my Bible.
@TokiEl

Daniel 7:3-7 (KJV)

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
 





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The seven kings are empires. The five that are fallen are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that Is, obviously, would be Rome, since it was Rome that was in charge when John was writing.
John was shown a vision of the endtime great harlot who sits on many waters... and he described her as a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns.

This is the composite endtime beast which looks like a leopard with the mouth of a lion and the feet of a bear.

Since this was a vision of the last days... it is wrong to conclude that the one that is must be Rome just because Rome was in charge when John was given the vision.
 





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Can you please give references for things you say? I was looking through Daniel trying to understand what you're talking about.

The Beast's empire is being portrayed as a system of governance, just as the Babylonian, Persian and Greek systems/empires were.

Is this the first time you've heard any of this? Doesn't it make way more sense?
But the fourth beast in Daniel 7 is the first beast in Revelation 13.
 





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@TokiEl

Daniel 7:3-7 (KJV)

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
But Anne of Green Gables... this fourth beast in Daniel 7 is the first beast in Revelation 13.
 





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No the lion is not Babylon and the bear is not MedoPersia and the leopard is not Greece.

The fourth beast in Daniel 7 is the first beast in Revelation 13.


The lion with eagle's wings wich were plucked off and raised to stand on two feet like a man and given a man's heart... is the British empire which American eagle wings were plucked off... and this former proud colonial powerhouse stopped conquering and offered freedom to her former colonies.

The bear raised up on one side with three ribs between its teeth and devouring much flesh... is the Russian empire with the three small baltic states in its teeth... who was raised up on the side of left leaning or communism which has cost a lot of human lives.

The leopard with four wings of a bird and four heads of dominion... is the German empire which four heads are the Holy Roman empire and the German empire and the Third reich and the Fourth reich... and on its back as four wings of a bird was seen the swastika.



The lion and the bear and the leopard... the British empire and the Russian empire and the German empire.

And their empires were taken away yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


And these three make up the body of the fourth beast.
 





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I'm giving up on Revelation 4. In the first verse, John is on earth. In the second verse, he's suddenly in Heaven's throne room. I guess I'm just too stupid to see those verses as implying anything other than I have just described. The picture of a believer being on earth one minute, and then suddenly, instantly, in the presence of Jesus Christ, is literally how Paul describes the Rapture.



This is really the key issue. I don't know how to read the Bible in a way that makes me ignore God's plan for Israel, including a time when the entire nation will call on Jesus Christ and acknowledge him as their Messiah. God has made far too many promises to Israel for me to believe he is done with them. Plus, Paul explicitly tells us he's not.



Yes, individual Jews are saved the same way we are, but Paul wrote that one day, all Israel will be saved. How is that not a redemption of Israel? A unified and believing nation of Israel will then finally inherit the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and it's also then that prophecies regarding the reign of Jesus Christ on earth will be fulfilled.

If I am out to lunch, please explain the following passage from Jeremiah:


Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.​



In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.​



In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.​



For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;​



Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.​



And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,​



Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;​



Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.​

The way I read it, there will be a time when Jesus Christ will rule the earth from the throne of a saved and redeemed Israel, and God has said that if this doesn't happen, it would mean the end of day and night.

But tell me, how would you interpret that passage?
Everything God promised to Israel has already been fulfilled.


Joshua 21: (KJV)
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 





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Everything God promised to Israel has already been fulfilled.


Joshua 21: (KJV)
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
Leaving all that aside for now, they were also promised that Jesus Christ would rule from the throne of David. When do you suppose that happened?
 





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You say I’m wrong yet you offer no proof.
Giant human angel hybrids with six fingers/toes and double row of teeth is a biblical fact.

It is the source of the blue bloods... also known as the aristocrazy... the class who ruled the nations for centuries and still do.
 





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Giant human angel hybrids with six fingers/toes and double row of teeth is a biblical fact.

It is the source of the blue bloods... also known as the aristocrazy... the class who ruled the nations for centuries and still do.
If it is a “biblical fact”, please provide Book, Chapter & Verse(s) to support it.
 





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Leaving all that aside for now, they were also promised that Jesus Christ would rule from the throne of David. When do you suppose that happened?
Why would you leave that aside? It shows that ALL God’s promises to the nation of Israel were FULFILLED—way back when there was a nation of Israel.

That nation is gone, over, no more. History. Why do you refuse to believe & accept it?

Just because some Talmud-practicing group of people colonized Palestine through ethnic cleansing & genocide, and copied the name “Israel”, that doesn’t mean they have anything to do with the Biblical nation of Israel, which, by the way, do NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah. They are looking for THEIR OWN “Messiah”....the Antichrist.

They are clearly the Synagogue of Satan that JESUS CHRIST warned us about.
 





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If it is a “biblical fact”, please provide Book, Chapter & Verse(s) to support it.
Genesis 3 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”



Genesis 6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive[a] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.


Numbers 13 33 There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”


Amos 2 9 “Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them,
Whose height was like the height of the cedars,
And he was as strong as the oaks
;
Yet I destroyed his fruit above
And his roots beneath.



2 samuel 21 18 Now it happened afterward that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbechai the Hushathite killed Saph, who was one of the sons of the giant. 19 Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

20 Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant. 21 So when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea, David’s brother, killed him.



Daniel 2 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
 





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That nation is gone, over, no more. History. Why do you refuse to believe & accept it?

Just because some Talmud-practicing group of people colonized Palestine through ethnic cleansing & genocide, and copied the name “Israel”, that doesn’t mean they have anything to do with the Biblical nation of Israel, which, by the way, do NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah. They are looking for THEIR OWN “Messiah”....the Antichrist.

They are clearly the Synagogue of Satan that JESUS CHRIST warned us about.
The nation is back just as foretold right on time and were very happy to comply with the two state solution of UN resolution 181... but the Arabs were not and so attacked the Jews the day after Israeli independence day.

And there has been wars and terrors between them ever since...
 





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John was shown a vision of the endtime great harlot who sits on many waters... and he described her as a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns.

This is the composite endtime beast which looks like a leopard with the mouth of a lion and the feet of a bear.

Since this was a vision of the last days... it is wrong to conclude that the one that is must be Rome just because Rome was in charge when John was given the vision.
John was told to write the things he had seen, the things which are, and the things which were to come. What other possible definition of 'is' could there be, than meaning the moment that John was writing? Why are you deliberately reading against a reasonable interpretation of the book?

But the fourth beast in Daniel 7 is the first beast in Revelation 13.
Yes. The Beast/Beast system are prophesied in both books.

So when the first head is Babylon... then why do you begin with Egypt ?
This doesn't need to be confusing. You're trying to mash together the four beasts of Daniel 7 with the seven kings of Revelation 17. All represent types of the Beast system/empire, but are used in two different prophetic references.

No the lion is not Babylon and the bear is not MedoPersia and the leopard is not Greece.

The fourth beast in Daniel 7 is the first beast in Revelation 13.


The lion with eagle's wings wich were plucked off and raised to stand on two feet like a man and given a man's heart... is the British empire which American eagle wings were plucked off... and this former proud colonial powerhouse stopped conquering and offered freedom to her former colonies.

The bear raised up on one side with three ribs between its teeth and devouring much flesh... is the Russian empire with the three small baltic states in its teeth... who was raised up on the side of left leaning or communism which has cost a lot of human lives.

The leopard with four wings of a bird and four heads of dominion... is the German empire which four heads are the Holy Roman empire and the German empire and the Third reich and the Fourth reich... and on its back as four wings of a bird was seen the swastika.



The lion and the bear and the leopard... the British empire and the Russian empire and the German empire.

And their empires were taken away yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


And these three make up the body of the fourth beast.
What on earth would make anyone come up with such an interpretation when there is such a perfectly reasonable one available? "The British empire which American eagle wings were plucked off"? It's like some people are trying to make it confusing for everyone else.

Like I said, the names aren't important. The problem with locking a person or place into your definition of future events is what do you do when you turn out to be wrong? And it's always wrong. Do you realize how many antichrists have been named in the last 2000 years?

In the Bible we are given a general framework for future events. There is no need to waste time labeling any of the players.
 





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Why would you leave that aside? It shows that ALL God’s promises to the nation of Israel were FULFILLED—way back when there was a nation of Israel.
I don't mind taking it up. I just thought we could save some time by having you explain what all the verses about Jesus Christ sitting on the throne of David mean, but we can go the long way, too. Please give me a point by point rebuttal of the verses I will reference.

First, the promise of the land to the seed of Abraham was unconditional. Abraham wasn't even awake when God made the covenant. I submit Genesis 15 as proof of what I say. If you can read that entire chapter, which recounts the promise of the land to Abraham's seed, and find one condition that is placed on anyone but God, I ask you to quote the relevant verse so we can all see it.

And if ALL God’s promises to the nation of Israel were FULFILLED, what was Jeremiah talking about?

Jeremiah was the last prophet to Judah, which was the southern kingdom of the divided nation of Israel. By the end of Jeremiah's life, Israel had been taken into captivity, and Jerusalem was destroyed, including Solomon's temple. Jews eventually came back from captivity, and a temple was built, but they never had a king again, never had peace again, and they never had their land again. They have been blind, in bondage, and under persecution ever since.

Jeremiah prophesied:

For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

That's a promise to Israel, unfulfilled.

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

Israel must be delivered from a time of great persecution, and will then turn as one to serve God, and David their king. David, at this point, has been dead for a few hundred years, so the reference is to Jesus Christ, and the promise is that Israel will have a king again, and that the king will be Jesus Christ.

The promise I would point out in verse 30 is that Israel shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. That has been the case a few times since the time of Joshua, but can you think of a time since King Solomon when Israel has been in their land, at peace, and serving Jesus Christ, their king? I can't, either. Multiple promises to Israel unfulfilled.

By the way, the divided nation of Israel will be united again, and prosperous.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

Promise unfulfilled. ;)

Isaiah says:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Jesus Christ will rule a faithful Israel and a peaceful world from Jerusalem. This is a promise made to Israel, and to humanity. Unfulfilled.

So maybe, not ALL God’s promises to the nation of Israel were FULFILLED, as you say.

That nation is gone, over, no more. History. Why do you refuse to believe & accept it?
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Paul backs this up.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel

Just because some Talmud-practicing group of people colonized Palestine through ethnic cleansing & genocide, and copied the name “Israel”, that doesn’t mean they have anything to do with the Biblical nation of Israel, which, by the way, do NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah. They are looking for THEIR OWN “Messiah”....the Antichrist.
I'm not unaware that Israel is in an unbelieving state, but read Jeremiah again.

For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

God said Israel will again possess the land and he said that HE is the one who makes it happen. You can keep blaming whoever you want to, but the truth is in your Bible.

They are clearly the Synagogue of Satan that JESUS CHRIST warned us about.
It's unclear why anyone would think a warning about "the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not" could be considered a warning against a false nation of Israel, especially since it's written as a warning to first century churches. You yourself just said that Israel doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah, but these anti-Jews are a Synagogue. Why would unbelieving Jews be called a synagogue? Why would fake Jews be a threat to the early church? Why would posing as a Jew be considered blasphemy?

No, the Synagogue of Satan, those who say they are Jews, and are not, is made up of people like you, Claire. Apparent believers who think that Israel has been replaced by the Church. They blaspheme and say THEY are Jews, but God says they are NOT.
 





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Genesis 3 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”



Genesis 6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive[a] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.


Numbers 13 33 There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”


Amos 2 9 “Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them,
Whose height was like the height of the cedars,
And he was as strong as the oaks
;
Yet I destroyed his fruit above
And his roots beneath.



2 samuel 21 18 Now it happened afterward that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbechai the Hushathite killed Saph, who was one of the sons of the giant. 19 Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

20 Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant. 21 So when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea, David’s brother, killed him.


Daniel 2 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
Like I said, you misunderstand what “sons of God” means.

It is referring to a saved believer:

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”.....John 1:12 KJB

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”.......Romans 8:16 KJB

“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.”.......1 John 3:1 KJB
 





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John was told to write the things he had seen, the things which are, and the things which were to come. What other possible definition of 'is' could there be, than meaning the moment that John was writing? Why are you deliberately reading against a reasonable interpretation of the book?
John was shown a future vision of the harlot Babylon the great sitting on the seven headed endtime beast with ten horns in Rev 17.

That harlot is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth... but the ten horns on the seven headed endtime beast actually hate her and will burn her with fire. And when that happens merchants wil weep for her for she bought much of the world's goods and made them rich.

Babylon the great will fall by fire in one hour... but for now she is still sitting on the sevenheaded endtime beast and reigning over the kings of the earth while wallowing in luxury.

So John was shown a future endtime vision long after the head of Rome had fallen. At the point in time John was shown this vision five heads were already fallen... and the first head must begin with Babylon. So Babylon MedoPersia Greece Rome and the Holy Roman empire five heads had all fallen when John was shown the vision.

Therefore John was shown this future endtime vision of the great harlot sitting on the sevenheaded endtime beast with ten horns... during the reign of the German empire 1871-1918.



What on earth would make anyone come up with such an interpretation when there is such a perfectly reasonable one available? "The British empire which American eagle wings were plucked off"? It's like some people are trying to make it confusing for everyone else.
The lion and the bear and the leopard are three world powers and their description in Daniel 7 fits very well the British empire and the Russian empire and the German empire.

The British empire once had a colony called the United States of America whose animal symbol is the eagle.


In the Bible we are given a general framework for future events. There is no need to waste time labeling any of the players.
You don't know what you're talking about.