Revelation

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#1
Let's talk about the book of Revelation. :)

Long considered by many to be an impenetrable book, what with the depictions of beasts full of eyes and horns, riders on horses with swords coming out of their mouths, and locusts with lion's teeth rising from a bottomless pit, Revelation does not need to be a mystery, because the keys to deciphering it are larded throughout the book itself, and through the rest of the Bible. Rather than throwing up our hands in frustration, or dismissing all of it as "apocalyptic", we can unlock the book, and in doing so, we are promised and will receive blessing.

Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.​
Revelation tells us of the final act of God's plan for humanity, the final disposition of Satan, his angels, and the unbelievers, the redemption of the earth, the redemption of Israel, the uniting of believers with God, and the glorious reign of Jesus Christ on this earth. I will come back with some more thoughts, but I wanted to get the ball rolling.
 





Lisa

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#2
I have said before on the end times thread that I think that the first two seals are already opened. I’m not sure this is the type of talk you are wanting for this thread though or if you are instead wanting to decipher it.

Also are we bringing other books with prophetic verses that line up with Revelation in or are you just keeping to the book of Revelation?
 





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#3
Have been studying Revelation for one year with Precept (https://www.precept.org/) and it's a two year course with 4 parts. In part 2, we had to draw the book of Revelation (Ch. 4-22). At first I thought that was dumbest thing I'd ever heard of (it's because I hate the way my drawings look like a 7 year old did them). It was a good thing and a great way to learn the book.

Just on a big picture level, notice how much the number 7 is used. And Sufjan Stevens is wrong about 7 swans. :)
 





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#5
I have said before on the end times thread that I think that the first two seals are already opened. I’m not sure this is the type of talk you are wanting for this thread though or if you are instead wanting to decipher it.

Also are we bringing other books with prophetic verses that line up with Revelation in or are you just keeping to the book of Revelation?
You are welcome to bring whatever you want to this thread that has bearing on the subject, but it should be in line with scripture.

As for the seals being opened:

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.​
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.​
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.​
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.​

Who is the rider on the white horse?
 





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#6
I personally have no inclined belief to any interpretation of The Book of Revelation. For me it's sacred that no one knows all the truth and the right interpretation. The book is very tricky. If a pastor wrongly misinterpret the book, it can mislead a lot of people.

I do watch some videos from https://www.youtube.com/user/jclewis/videos (AoC Network) and he talks a lot about end times thing and also about "The Two Witnesses", "Daniel's Prophecy", etc. What I like about him that he explains it based on scriptures and he explores it. So not much about his own opinions.

 





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#7
I got my understanding of revelation from Tim McHyde. His book really helped me to make sense of it all
 





Lisa

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#8
You are welcome to bring whatever you want to this thread that has bearing on the subject, but it should be in line with scripture.

As for the seals being opened:

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.​


2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.​


3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.​


4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.​

Who is the rider on the white horse?
I don’t know, I thought it was more abstract that there was more about a conquering force not a specific person. However, I do believe that islam is the conquering force that will be used to conquer.
 





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#10
I have said before on the end times thread that I think that the first two seals are already opened. I’m not sure this is the type of talk you are wanting for this thread though or if you are instead wanting to decipher it.

Also are we bringing other books with prophetic verses that line up with Revelation in or are you just keeping to the book of Revelation?
All the seals have been opened by Jesus and Revelation 5:8-11 tells us that only the Lamb is worthy to open the seals. Then Revelation 6:1 says, "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." That is the first seal opened and when the second seal is opened Revelation 6:3 says, "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see." The King James version doesn't use a capital H when describing God but other Bible versions do and "he" is is the lamb opening the second seal. If I use the NKJV to tell us when the third seal was opened it says, "When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” Revelation 6:5. Its clear to see that "He" is Jesus Himself the opens this seal. And it goes on like that with the rest of the seals.

All the seals have been opened as Revelation 5,6 and 8 tell us, that is why we can read what the seals say and understand them. The book of Revelation is completely revealed to us in these last days. Most of the Book of Revelation has also been fulfilled and its very little that needs to be fulfilled before Jesus returns.
 





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#11
There is a scene from Indiana Jones where he visits the map room. What he brings there and what knowledge he takes to it determine what he finds out.


When we come to the Book of Revelation, I believe it is like the Map Room in the film - bring the right things and the meaning will open up, without it, it’s just guesswork!
 





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#12
2024-2030 or 2031-2037? And I thought no one knows the day nor the hour. Hmm, I just don't know about this source, @Vytas . Seems flaky to me.
It is said also that we will know times and seasons .His dating is based on shemitah year. I don't think he is right about everything, but he likely is about that. I understand why you are suspicious , but i trust my discernment...
An idea...
Does interpretation of "no one knows" to mean no one "can ever know," or, "will ever know" is honest and doesn't force to see us what's not there ?
 





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#13
Understanding the Book of Revelation

Reading the book of Revelation can be a frustrating and perplexing study experience, with all its amazing cast of characters, its extraordinary symbolic imagery, and its deeply spiritual prose.

Of course, the writer of the book, the apostle John, tells us that the prophetic book is, in fact, a revelation of Jesus Christ himself—one often given through dramatic visions and dreams. They are the words and teachings of Jesus. This alone means that exploring the book is a worthwhile and meaningful endeavour for every Christian who seeks to know God’s will.

Yet for millions, the symbols and language of Revelation are often enshrouded in confusing and contradictory teachings. How are we, living nearly 2,000 years after it was written, to understand Revelation today? Is it still relevant for our time? What is the true nature behind such symbols as the two brides, the beast, and Babylon? How can we know which interpretation actually makes the most sense?

If you’ve ever Googled “Revelation,” you’ve probably heard of the four most common ways to approach it. Of course, one of these ways is that skeptics and non-Christians believe the book is merely myth and not much more than a morality play. But beyond that view, different groups within the Christian faith understand the book in primarily three different ways—often called preterism, futurism, and historicism.

Preterism is the belief that the apostle John wrote Revelation as a book of history, a history that ends by AD 70, describing with symbolic elements the extreme challenges of the early church in overcoming the antichrist power of Pagan Rome and the influence of Judaism.

Futurism is the belief that John wrote primarily about events that have yet to occur even in our day, including the future rise of the antichrist. Futurism is the interpretation put forth by the popular Left Behind series and today enjoys the most support from mainstream Protestant Christianity. Ironically, this theory was first put forth by a Jesuit—Francisco Ribera—in the late 1500s.

Historicism is the belief that John was writing future history as it would unfold from his day to the end of time, prophetically detailing the events of the church and major world powers all the way through to the second coming of Christ and the New Jerusalem.

While each school of interpretation has strong arguments, only one is logically and spiritually consistent. For instance, preterism implies that because all biblical prophecy was fulfilled by AD 70, God has no prophetic message for Christians living today—and, worse, it implies that many prophecies simply did not and will not come to pass (such as the great Christian apostasy Christ warned would strike at the church just prior to His second coming in Matthew 24).

And unfortunately, along with its inconsistent approach to symbols and dates, futurism promotes a fire-escape gospel that encourages a wait-and-see approach to salvation—and it is the one most commonly associated with failed predictions of Christ’s return, such as the book 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988.

Historicism, on the other hand, was the view of the majority of the great reformers, including Luther and Calvin, who believed the antichrist power had already arisen in their lifetimes. And it presents a case that is simple, providing a logical interpretation that makes identifying such characters as the two brides, the beast, and Babylon much more consistent with the evidence of Scripture and history.

amazingfacts.org
 





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#14
Endtimes events were written in the scroll sealed with seven seals... and the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was worthy to open the seals and give John a vision of the the last days which he wrote down in his book.

The first seal is Papacy. The second seal is Communism. The third seal is Famine. The fourth seal is Islam.

The fifth seal is persecution of Christians.

The sixth seal is the start of God's wrath... which is probably the same as God's fury when Gog and comp attack Israel. Stars falling sounds like the second sign in heaven in Rev 12... where the first sign is also an astronomical mark in time September 23 2017. This year the Draconids meteor shower coincides with the Day of Atonement (Judgement)... and the second sign in Rev 12 sees a dragon casting stars to the earth.

At the time of God's wrath angels will seal 12 000 Christians from each of the 12 tribes of Israel who are found worthy to escape these things and stand before Jesus Christ. Many more will be saved though as described in the latter part of Rev 7 and most likely through martyrdom.

The seventh seal is silence in heaven for about half an hour (however long that is). That could be a grid down description because of the destruction at the sixth seal. When the grid comes back up the new world order beast in Rev 13 is taking control of the earth together with the second beast aka the false prophet. Everybody will be chipped and connected to the internet controlled by AI. This will be enforced by the multitude of the beast... nazis commies and muslims.
 





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Lisa

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#15
This is how I see events working out..

The Muslims have gone out conquering and to conquer-Revelation 6:1-2. They have mixed with the iron (the Roman Empire) that was split in two-the legs. East and West. The pope and his counterpart the patriarch. East and Western Europe no longer divided. And I think they have mixed with them because of the western governments welcoming in their fighters. The fighters that don’t get along with the peoples of Western Europe. Even in Eastern Europe those fighters also don’t get along with the East as much either.
Genesis 16:12
But then Ishmael will be a wild donkey of a man, his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him.
Daniel 2:33
It’s legs of iron, it’s feet partly if iron, partly of clay.
Daniel 2:41-43
In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with common clay. As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle. And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.‬ ‭


Revelation 6:3-4 that the second rider went out to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another.
Actually I wonder if it was opened at all or rather the wars and rumors of wars thing was in place. The world seems relatively quiet anymore unless you count various places with isis, hezbollah, hamas and the muslim brotherhood. In the recent couple of years it did seem that peace was taken from the earth. But now all is seemingly calmer. Does the conquering bleed into it? And maybe we really haven’t seen the true manifestation of this verse yet? Perhaps it’s just..
Mark 13:8‬
For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
‭‭

Revelation 6:5-6 where the earth’s economic horse has yet to ride and I only say that because though we’ve been warned for years that an economic collapse is coming we haven’t seen the manifestation of that yet, in my opinion
Revelation ‬ ‭6:6‬
And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.
‭‭‭though some economies like Venezuela are ruined but I don’t think it’s because of the black rider. Could just be...
Mark 13:8‬
For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.


Revelation 6:8
I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
I don’t believe that this seal has been opened yet, however maybe a case could be made for the communists takeovers of Russia and China, I believe that could be the wars and rumors of wars. And of course since the seals are in numerical order...if 3 isn’t opened then neither are the rest. I think it’s just..
Mark 13:8‬
For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will also be famines. These things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.


Because I don’t believe seal 5 is opened though the world mourns the ‘christian’ deaths around the world, aren’t those ‘christians’ actually catholics? And if catholicism isn’t actually Christianity, can we say that they are under the alter of God if they are of a different gospel? Plus...
Mark 13:9, 11-13‬
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.
When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.‭
‭‭‬ ‭
I don’t believe we’ve seen this yet. The catholics being killed aren’t killed for their testimony’s but just because they are known to be catholics.

So that follows that the 6th and 7th seal can’t be opened . I also don’t think that this is the worst time in earth yet...we are certainly working towards it. This clearly has not started yet.
Matthew 24:21-22‬ ‭
For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
‭‭
Then you also have events that need to be happening in the Middle East. Clearly
Zechariah 12:1-3‬ ‭
The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, “Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.

It seems to be partly in effect and most nations are against Israel, anti semitism seems to be on the rise, nations hate them then some don’t.
We also haven't seen a treaty that has a Jewish temple being rebuilt and sacrifices offered, which I think starts the tribulation because in the middle of it the treaty is broken and the antichrist is revealed.
Daniel 2:27
And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.
And I think we won’t see the treaty that marks the beginning of the tribulation until Israel has the red heifer. Without the red heifer they can’t do any offerings in their temple. However, the Jews are working on raising their own in blemished red heifer.
Numbers 1:6
This is the statute of the law which the LORD has commanded, saying, ‘Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed. You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence. Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times. Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned. The priest shall take cedar wood and hyssop and scarlet material and cast it into the midst of the burning heifer.
‭‭‭Once they get the red heifer, I believe we are gonna see a major push towards having a new temple. They already have the utensils, the robes for the priests, they’ve trained up the Levite’s they found to do the sacrifices and all they really need is that heifer. I believe they even have the temple pre fabricated.
https://templeinstitute.org

Revelation 11:1-2‬ ‭
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
‭‭Many people believe that the new temple will be built alongside the mosque on the Temple Mount and the reference to leaving out the court is in reference to the mosque sitting where the court should be. So we will see a temple rebuilt next to the mosque.


We also know that an apostasy mist take place and I do see that happening..
‭‭2 Thessalonians 2:1-4‬ ‭
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Because it also fulfills
Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
‭‭‬ ‭

We see this happening more and more in the world
‭‭2 Timothy 3:1-7‬
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And this is obviously true of our day...
Matthew 24:12‬ ‭
Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
‭‭
Edit: added the part about the temple pre fab
Edit:
Matthew 24:32-33‬ ‭
Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
‭‭
 





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Wigi

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#16
I don't know much about the signs and the numbers we can find in that book but what really amaze me it's the fact that the Bible point out that those who will be judged at that time will be 'merchants'.

"And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore"
Revelation 18:11

Also these merchants are described as the great men of the earth

"The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived."
Revelation 18:23

I understand the 'merchants' will be the most wealthy on earth which is inevitable in a society ruled by economy like today.

When I read 'sorcery' I understand manipulation with occult agenda and social engineering through medias.

I'm really amazed by that book because it clearly explain what is the problem of our time.
 





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#17
Just 1 out of 10 for thread originality here.

Nothing stimulates circular debates better than the book of revolutions.

Stick to what works best eh? Lol.
 





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#18
The great city Babylon which reigns over the kings of the earth... has been carried like a queen by the seven headed beast with ten horns who are ten kings without kingdoms who will ultimately turn on her and burn her with fire.

Which city reigns over the kings of the earth ? Well the kings of the earth more or less take their orders from the United Nations which headquarters is in New York City.
 





Lisa

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#20
The great city Babylon which reigns over the kings of the earth... has been carried like a queen by the seven headed beast with ten horns who are ten kings without kingdoms who will ultimately turn on her and burn her with fire.

Which city reigns over the kings of the earth ? Well the kings of the earth more or less take their orders from the United Nations which headquarters is in New York City.
Who are the ten kings?