Response to a Christian

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I wrote this in response to a Christian in the context of a debate and I figured it should have its own thread as it articulates a lot of my thoughts on Christianity. A lot of it (at the end) is an article I copied and pasted:

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

-Surah Al-Ma'idah [5:17]

Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

-Surah Ali 'Imran [3:64]

Hi Etagloc, My post is not sarcasm, You are not a believer, therefore, you could never understand the Supernatural work of the Spirit of Christ. Not everyone that claims they are a Christian has ever met The Lord. A lot of the visible Church is like people reading a script for a play and acting out the parts as actors. (They give God a bad name) Born again believers are different, They are not perfect, but they seek after the things of the Spirit and you won't find them on TV. I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but since they have taken God out of the American culture, we have been going down hill in depravity ever since. I remember different time in the past (I am 73)
You say "You are not a believer" to me.

Almighty God has told us in the Quran:

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

-Surah Al-Ma'idah [5:17]

So that has settled it. The Quran is the word of God- not the word of some guy named Paul, who never met Jesus (PBUH), who has no authority, yet introduces doctrine claiming it is now obligatory to worship Jesus (PBUH) as God and claiming the ancient laws of the religion of Abraham (PBUH), Moses (PBUH), Noah (PBUH) suddenly no longer apply!

This Paul character spoke with a forked tongue!

Anyone, anyone who tries to turn you away from worship of the One true God, anyone who tries to turn you away from the primordial, innate religion of worshipping God alone, anyone who tries to turn you away from worshipping the God of our most ancient forefathers, the God of Abraham (PBUH), the God of Noah (PBUH), the God of Moses (PBUH)- do not listen to that person!!!!!!! Paul was a snake! And Paul probably knew better and Paul probably knew exactly what he was doing, as a Jew! The Jews know that you are only supposed to worship God alone! The Muslims know you are only supposed to worship God! The only ones who don't know are the Christians! The Jews had many Prophets (PBUT) sent to them! The Jews know a thing or two about what the Prophets (PBUT) taught! Do you see the Jews eating pork?!

The Jews know you're not supposed to eat pork! The Muslims know you're not supposed to eat pork! The only ones who don't know are the Christians. Everyone else knows.

The Christians have been led astray! The pastors have lied to you, the church has lied to you and the deceiver who wrote most of the New Testament lied to you! Are you going to sit back and take it or are you going to investigate and find out the truth?

The Christians have been lied to, they have been betrayed and they need to turn back and get onto the right road before they have left this world and it is too late!

The Bible shows Jesus (PBUH) as praying to God. Do you think God prays to Himself? Is that reasonable?! Is that logical?!

He presents to you an example from yourselves. Do you have among those whom your right hands possess any partners in what We have provided for you so that you are equal therein [and] would fear them as your fear of one another [within a partnership]? Thus do We detail the verses for a people who use reason.

Surah Ar-Rum [30:28]

Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason.

Surah Al-Anfal [8:22]


The Quran commands us to use reason. The Quran is for people who use reason. Islam is for people who use reason. If you haven't watched the video in the OP, watch the video in the OP. Use reason. The video is using reason and logic- it's not using insults as a substitute, like those who don't have logic backing them resort to.

Islam is in perfect line with sound reason. Islam is in perfect line with a person's inner, innate knowing of what is right and what is wrong. Islam is the primordial religion. Islam is the innate religion. Islam is in alignment with man's deepest, most inner nature. There is nothing natural about worshipping a man as God- just as there is nothing natual about worshipping a statue or a blue-skinned, Hindu "god".

Worshipping this is not natural:



Islam is natural. Islam is not trying to lead away from what is natural. Paul openly tried to lead people away from what is natural

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

-1 Corinthians 2:14

and (in the same book!) he even contradicted his own teaching

Doesn’t nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that ifa woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

-1 Corinthians 11:14-15

So is man's natural inner nature sound or is it unsound? Which one is it?! Paul contradicts himself. But Islam does not contradict. Islam is innate in human nature.

If you read Plato, in his dialogue Meno, Socrates propounds the doctrine that the process of teaching is actually just a process of making people remember what they already knew deep down. I'm not a follower of Plato but I agree that Plato had a point here.

Islam teaches you what you already know deep down.

And there is nothing remotely natural about the teaching that salvation is only through faith alone and that you don't actually have to do anything. I have to actually do certain things. I have to actually follow God's commandments. (more info and also further exposing the wolf in sheep's clothes Paul: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/425...an-about-the-christian-doctrine-of-redemption )

Deep down, everyone knows- "Why do I have to worship Jesus (PBUH)? Why can't I just worship God?". I do not think I will ever forget- I heard a woman ask that question and I do not think she'd ever been taught Islam- I do not think I will ever forget the confusion in her voice. When I was a kid, I wondered the same thing- I had not been taught anything about Islam yet I was unconsciously a Muslim. Islam is not trying to contort you against your own inner nature. Islam brings you back in touch with your deepest, inner-most nature and what you already knew deep down.

Reconnect with your inner-most self. Become a Muslim. Worship God only. God alone is worthy of worship. You don't need to worship saints, Hindu "deities," or Jesus (PBUH) as intermediaries. Dedicate your worship to God alone- no parters, no intermediaries. God hears the one who praises Him. God is sufficient as your witness.

Paul was a clever intellectual but he wasn't a trustworthy figure and he certainly wasn't serving God.

In fact, he seems to have even had the nerve to go against the diciples who actually met Jesus (PBUH) http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/paul_versus_the_disciples.htm

(anyone can claim to have met Jesus (PBUH) in a vision..... I could claim Jesus (PBUH) came to me a vision on the road to the corner store- and if I teach you a newly-invented religion I made up are you going to follow me?)

Who are the true heirs of the religion of Abraham (PBUH)? It is the Muslims.

Do you think Jesus (PBUH) ate pork? Do you think Moses (PBUH) ate pork?

Did Abraham (PBUH) associate partners with God or did Abraham (PBUH) only worship God alone? Did Moses (PBUH) worship Jesus (PBUH) or did Moses (PBUH) worship God alone?

The Muslims are the true heirs of the religion of Abraham (PBUH). It is the Muslims who carry on the religion of Abraham (PBUH).

If Abraham (PBUH) could come to earth and see how the Christians who claim to his successors have gone astray, he would probably have a heart attack!

It is the Muslims who carry the torch of Abraham (PBUH)!

THIS IS NO SMALL MATTER!

We are talking about salvation here! We are talking about matters that impact one's fate for eternity!

It is therefore that we should be thorough in investigation. I have studied Christianity and I have studied Islam. I have studied both religions. I have read the Bible. I have read translations of the Quran (I can't read Arabic). I have read the Tao Te Ching. I have read the Bhagavad Gita. I have examined the evidence on multiple sides. I have examined the arguments on multiple sides. The evidence is for Islam. The evidence is overwhelming. Some of the Christians will engage in all sorts of logical gymnastics but the evidence and the sound arguments simply aren't for Christianity.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlx9lLqJ8rU&t=637s

As far as evidence, I haven't even scratched the surface..... I could give you hours, hours and hours of material......

https://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-J...F8&qid=1546684378&sr=8-4&keywords=bart+ehrman

there is a mountain of evidence... I'm not here to do logical gymnastics to try to explain away the mountain of evidence.....

I'm simply wanting to familiarize the people with the mountain of evidence..... let's follow the evidence- wherever it leads!

I have not scratched the surface!

go through the material and examine it...

and buy this https://www.amazon.com/Meanings-Illustrious-Quran-Without-Arabic/dp/8174350705/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546684942&sr=1-2&keywords="without+arabic"+"quran"

get the Bart Ehrman book too..... people.... not naming names will try to pull out all kinds of fancy tricks to make you think Bart Ehrman isn't telling the truth... the evidence presented in his book is overwhelming... the apologists won't tell you that..... don't take their word for it and you don't have to take my word for it, either- the book is cheap- examine it for yourself!

anyways, this is serious stuff- so do the homework, people.....

examine the material.... see for yourself..... it's well worth it.....

anyways, that is my response to this:

Hi Etagloc... You are not a believer
God will judge and God will decide who are the believers and who are the disbelievers.....

now moving on

I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but since they have taken God out of the American culture, we have been going down hill in depravity ever since.
Yes- I have noticed.

And what are Christians going to do about it?

I am serious- and let's be serious and let's be honest- what are Christians going to do about it?

Let's be honest- Christians aren't going to do anything. Christians are going to sit back and do nothing.

I am reminded of this verse from the OT:

And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?

-Numbers 32:6

I am also reminded of this verse from Surah At-Tawbah, about the men who wanted to stay behind with the women while the others went out to fight:

The ground (of complaint) is against such as claim exemption while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind: Allah hath sealed their hearts; so they know not (What they miss).

- Surah At-Tawbah [9:93]

I mean you can even see the continuity with the OT and with the Quran. The Quran is closer to the OT than the NT is to the OT!

Did God suddenly change His personality?

It's like the OT suddenly goes from the Numbers verse I cited to the NT suddenly going to this



US losing in Afghanistan: Like Viet Cong, Taliban knows that waiting it out will defeat invaders
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/435943-afghanistan-taliban-us-forces/

The Viet Cong comparison is apt and actually is what I was already thinking.

I love being a Muslim. I am proud to be a Muslim.

You mentioned that you're an older guy and so I want to bring up these older things. I'm sure you probably remember the hippies and Viet Cong.

I remember there was this episode in the Boondocks... you probably haven't seen it but it shows Huey Freeman (this is the lemonade episode btw for those who might be familiar with the show)...... the time has come and Huey is ready to start the revolution and rushes in to set off the revolution.... the problem is that behind him.... is a bunch of hippie, liberals.... the time has come for the revolution and he's yelling "let's get them".. and what do they do?

they sit there and... that's it.... the hippies just sit there and strum their acoustic guitars and babble about peace and love.... maybe they hold hands and sing kumbaya.....

you go into the mosque and you start talking about some real stuff... talking about 9/11 being an inside job, talking about the media brainwashing the people, talking about the Illuminati, talking about the system and stuff..... the people might not be all that loud about it.... but they know about it.... they already know.... even the man giving the sermon... he might not even say it super directly.... he might drop hints..... but even he knows what's going on.....

you try that in a church...... those people will have a heart attack.... they want to be off in la la land.... they want to strum acoustic guitars, go on and on about peace and love.... hold hands and sing kumbaya..... look man, I'm not that kinda guy.... this kind of thing is why the churches are dominated by women.....


I'm not ISIS but I'm not a long-haired hippie who wants to go and on and about peace and love and be off in la la land and hold hands and sing kumbaya either.......

I don't want to be like that- I want to be like the Viet Cong.... the Viet Cong- that's what I admire.... I have no desire to strum an acoustic guitar and sing kumbaya or any of that mushy feel-good, warm fuzzy stuff....

I talked to a Bahai guy (this is why I made a thread about the Bahai)...... and this guy was talking exactly that kind of warm, fuzzy, feel-good stuff.... I mentioned about how Muslims will fight Dajjal (the antiChrist) in the end times and this poor guy acted like he was going to have a heart attack..... this guy... he was even acting scared because I have a beard!..... like my beard intimidated him.... and I'm not lying here.... I hate to say this but.... I think the guy's wife- I think she wants me to be perfectly honest..... I don't have any intention of going for it but if I was a different kind of guy I would, I'm just saying..... I could say a whole lot more but I'm being quiet.... I'm not lying though...... I'm just being honest.....

anyways I lost my train of thought.... oh, yes.......

look, man, people admire Muslims... people look up to Muslims.... people want to be like Muslims.... it feels good!

people hate on Muslims because they're jealous of Muslims.... they wish they were like Muslims.......

and look man..... what was I gonna say.... I have a tendency to go on and on smt..........

what was it..... man I forgot....... I be forgetting what I was gonna say sometimes.......

okay, I remember now.... look, man.....

gambling is wrong.... don't gamble.... but suppose theoretically it was okay and you were going to bet.....

are you gonna bet on a championship team that keeps on winning, winning and winning..... or are you gonna bet on the team that keeps on losing?

if you're dealing with, say, termites for example..... if you have Product A which has been shown to be defeated by the termites over and over and over again...... and you have Product B which is known to get the job done and wins, wins, and wins some more against the termites......

you talk about moral decay of society.... okay well which (Islam or Christianity) is actually going to get results? you don't even have to take it from me..... this website isn't even pro-Muslim:

http://www.returnofkings.com/66648/why-is-modern-christianity-so-wimpy

WHY IS MODERN CHRISTIANITY SO WIMPY?

Modern Christianity has proven itself ineffective against combatting virtually every point of the leftist agenda. Whether the issue is defending the family against divorce, opposing same-sex marriage, fighting feminism, or protecting religious liberty, the Christian churches are always on the losing side. Why is modern Christianity so weak?

I mean that is the bare, naked facts right there... I'm not trying to make fun of anyone but those are the facts.......

we don't even have to go with that source, we can go with another (also non-Muslim) source saying the exact same thing

https://www.henrymakow.com/001537.html

Why are Christians Such Wimps?

When an innocuous cartoon of the Prophet Mohamed was published, Muslims rioted and burned down embassies. But next week, a major Hollywood movie will challenge the veracity of Jesus Christ and Christians are sitting on their hands... When Muslims in Afghanistan heard that the Koran was being flushed down the toilet in far away Guantonimino Bay, they rioted. For them the battle against Satan is very real, and they are willing to sacrifice their lives. This is why they pose the last remaining religious obstacle to the Satanic New World Order.

You can even hear it from him: "they [the Muslims] pose the last remaining religious obstacle to the Satanic New World Order."

I know, you know and everyone and their grandma knows that Christianity isn't going to stand up to the NWO.... it's just not going to happen. Even hear, most of these Christians are actually backing NWO, Rothschild Zionism. Christians are going to be bowing down, worshipping the NWO. If they're Zionist Christians, they're already doing so.

I'm against ISIS (ISIS is against Islam) and all that and don't misconstrue anything as for that sort of thing..... but people do have to resist.... people do have to fight back....

But Christians mostly are either Zionist foot soldiers of the NWO system or are off in warm, fuzzy, feel-good la la land....... Islam is what's actually the threat to the NWO.... Christianity has been tamed and is now its lapdog, with the exception of small pockets..... meanwhile Islam has the NWO "elite" soiling their pants...... and this is why they're so desperate to brainwash everyone to be against Islam and to actually help to fight for the NWO



(obviously, the bit on atheism doesn't exactly match Christianity 100%.... although it's astonishingly overlapping to a great degree..... showing how watered-down Christianity is these days.... but anyways, the bit on Islam has some good points)

If you're against the degeneration of society and you're serious and you're not just talking... Islam is the actual route..... there are Christians who have spines but they are hopelessly outnumbered by their warm-and-fuzzy or Zionist NWO-foot-soldier brethen

Muslims in Afghanistan are busy defeating the most powerful military power in the world and possibly being more Viet Cong than the actual Viet Cong......

and meanwhile in the US......

Amber Rose Turns Heads As Sexy Bride at SlutWalk 2018
https://www.etonline.com/amber-rose-turns-heads-as-sexy-bride-at-slutwalk-2018-111067


they'll do that in what's left of the Christian world but those degenerates know better than to try that filth in the Muslim world...... I can't help but think of the word "cuck".... sometimes you have to have a backbone......

Muslims talk sometimes about things like "honor," "family honor"...... non-Muslims very often don't even talk about such concepts......

anyways, I want to close by posting yet another source talking about the same thing as two of those previous sources (btw I don't support Farrakhan but I think it's interesting how even this third source seems to be saying the same thing:

https://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2018/03/farrakhans-defense-of-jesus-against.html

On March 11 the Nation of Islam contacted Michael Hoffman to ask if he would corroborate Louis Farrakhan’s recent remarks about the contents of the Babylonian Talmud and its hate speech against Jesus.



Background



The media often attempt to put Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan on the defensive for “his notorious anti-Semitism.” Since the term anti-Goyimism is not in use to describe Orthodox Judaism’s institutionalized hatred of non-Jews in their most sacred text—the Babylonian Talmud—the staged morality play almost always consists of offended Judaics pointing righteous fingers of accusation at “moral lepers” like Louis Farrakhan. It’s a kind of media-enabled psychological warfare.



When Farrakhan defends Jesus Christ against hateful insults in the Babylonian Talmud, the ADL, Southern Poverty Law Center and mainstream media term him a “hater," while the Talmudists are cast as the perpetual victims.



Hate speech against Jesus and bigotry toward his true followers is of little concern to the media. Their universe spins on their mission of suppressing exposure of the sacred hate in the Talmud. In their Wonderland world, anyone like Farrakhan who undertakes that exposure, is a “hater”—educating the public about hate speech in Judaism becomes an act of hate. This is a form of quintessentially Talmudic logic known as “pilpul.”



At present Mr. Farrakhan is at the center of another firestorm of controversy as a few leading members of the Leftist “Women’s March” are refusing to join the witch hunt against him: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/us/louis-farrakhan-facts-history.html



Watching Mr. Farrakhan’s brief remarks about the Talmud and Jesus, as part of his “Saviour’s Day” oration last February, I was stung by his final sentence.



In his speech, Farrakhan accurately cited the exact passage in the Babylonian Talmud that teaches that for his alleged sins, Jesus is in hell being boiled in feces.



Addressing the Christians of the West he stated, “You wouldn’t even have the courage — the testicular fortitude — to ask them (the rabbis) why did they want to boil the man you call your Savior, in excrement.”



Here is a Muslim despised by Republican Conservatives, doing for the glory of the Holy Name of Jesus what nationally known Christian leaders should be doing. Instead, they cower.



There is almost no public figure with the world renown and audience numbers of Louis Farrakhan who would dare to say what he said.



Yes, Chuck Baldwin, Texe Marrs, Bishop Richard Williamson, Herman Otten and Dave Barley would do so, and may have have already done so, but they have not the fame or international influence of the Nation of Islam (NOI) leader—and few of us possess Farrakhan’s dramatic oratorical command of the spoken word.



After his remarks on the bigotry of the Talmud resulted in cries of “Bigotry!” from the usual suspects, including aspersions on the accuracy of his Talmud citation, this writer was contacted by the Research Department of the NOI, which is responsible for authoring the magisterial three volume revisionist history of Judaic involvement in black enslavement, The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews.



The Nation of Islam asked if I would corroborate Mr. Farrakhan’s remarks about the contents of the Talmud, and its statements about Jesus. The result is the article below, which is reprinted on the website of the Nation of Islam, where you can also find a nearly two minute video excerpt of Farrakhan’s stirring defense of Jesus.



This writer is certainly no Muslim, but I am a Bible reader and believer. I have noted how often the Scriptures speak again and again of the vital importance of the holy name of God, whether in reference to Yahweh or His Divine Son:



Your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.” (John 1: 2:12).



“I will sing praise to the name of the Lord Most High” (Psalm 7:17).



“How excellent is your name in all the earth” (Psalm 8:1).



“Those who know your name will put their trust in you” (Psalm 9:10).



“In the name of God we will set up our banners” (Psalm 20:5).



Meanwhile, the Talmud has placed the banner of Jesus in hell and the ministers of Churchianity are o.k. with it.



Farrakhan is confronting today’s so-called Christians with the appalling fact that they hold in good repute a religion that splatters the Holy Name of Jesus with excrement. Other than some Church of Satan cult, I can’t think of any other creed on earth that would stoop so low or be more deserving of exposure, even as we offer Christ’s love to the Judaic people who are in bondage to its iniquity.



For all the derision of Muslims in Right wing churches and culture, I daresay that Mr. Farrakhan, notwithstanding his Islamic faith, shall perhaps reach Paradise long before many of his “Christian” detractors, who cannot summon the “testicular fortitude” to unmask the religion that teaches to generations of Judaic youth, such filthy and depraved fantasies about our Savior.



Are you listening, Mike Pence?
 





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#2
I posted a lot, a lot of stuff but I think it's worth it for the person who reads it insha'Allah and hopefully insha'Allah it can be a resource for those wishing to research and investigate
 





Woke

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I posted a lot, a lot of stuff but I think it's worth it for the person who reads it insha'Allah and hopefully insha'Allah it can be a resource for those wishing to research and investigate
Everything you said was facts! Its unfortunate that people are too much in a daze defending their childhood indoctrination than to face the truth. :(
 





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Everything you said was facts! Its unfortunate that people are too much in a daze defending their childhood indoctrination than to face the truth. :(
Thank you- and what you said is exactly how it is: people are attached to what they were taught as children.

They stick to Christianity I think because of family tradition, cultural tradition, etc.

I understand that people are attached to that sort of thing but it's kind of like the pagans of ancient times who would continue worshipping idols because it was what their forefathers did.

I like tradition myself but when our duties to our Creator conflict with tradition- we have to put God before tradition.
 





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#7
@Etagloc

... the Talmud, and its statements about Jesus.
... Farrakhan’s stirring defense of Jesus.

... I have noted how often the Scriptures speak again and again of the vital importance of the holy name of God, whether in reference to Yahweh or His Divine Son..
.

Soo... you're defending and endorsing the divinity of Jesus, when Farrakhan has something to say about it. Okay... do you also endorse his alien prophecy?

Farrakhan also recounted what he claimed was a UFO abduction in which Elijah Muhammad warned him of a coming war. Farrakhan explained how after the 1985 event, then-President Ronald Reagan announced that Americans were to have no dealings with Libya and Gadhafi. It was at that point, he said Tuesday, that he understood this was the war to which his UFO experience alluded.​
Just curious.
 





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"yawn". It is good to see the low intellectual level of my opposition.
The above entry has way too many different topics and is much too long. It looks like wool balls all thrown together in a tumble dryer for several hours. One topic at a time is the safest option IF you want discussion with non-Muslims.
 





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Most of the "Christians" themselves don't believe in the Bible. It is very bizarre how they expect me to believe in what they themselves don't even believe. They don't actually live it. They say they believe but in practice you see they don't really believe in what the Bible says. They follow their desires.

Many Christians don't remotely care about their religion.... their alleged religion has zero influence over how they actually live... they do whatever they want and think they're entitled to go heaven anyways because they're Christians (whereas Muslims can pray five a day, fast for a month every year, memorize from the Quran, do all sorts of stuff but the Muslim goes to hell according to the Christian)... and so because of this teaching, they don't actually have to follow the Bible or even care what's in the Bible, according to this logic..... of course they will deny this but it is logically implied by their doctrine and so it is indeed within their doctrine... it is a hidden teaching, it is a secret of theirs and they will deny it if it's mentioned openly.... but secretly they believe it....

so you have all these "Christians" who believe they are "saved" because they're Christian no matter how they actually live.....

and my question is this

is a person who does good equal to a person who does evil?

natural, innate reason tells us they are not equal

yet Christians deny this.... the doctrine is unnatural.... it is against man's inner nature, against one's own inner knowing... against what a person really knows deep down.....

Anyways....... you have these "Christians" who are indistinguishable from anyone else and are demonstrated to not really believe if they are put to the test........

you can't even tell these "Christians" apart from atheists........

these people don't care about what the Bible teaches.... but then a Muslim comes along.... and suddenly they are "Defenders of Christendom".... wait a minute..... a moment ago "this is a secular country" and "Christendom" was not even a word that was used.... suddenly, part-time Christians are "Defenders of Christendom"..... when it suits them...... suddenly "this is a Christian country"... I thought it was a secular country?..... and apparently the "Christian country" is a world leader in exporting filth and degeneracy...... the "Christian countries" (which are "secular countries" until Muslims show up) are world leaders in pushing moral degradation..... and if you ask some, they'll cite "the Jews".... "well you see, the West promotes degeneracy, yeah sure but.... it's the Jews, you see"... and somehow it's immigrants, according to them.... and I do certainly believe that Jews are disproportionately represented in certain areas..... and like pretty much any real conservative, I view the pornography business as Jewish owned.... (I'm an actual conservative, not watered down).... however, even if we accept the premise that pornography is run by Jews and that a lot of moral degradation has been promoted by Jews (no one is going to grasp the extent of this unless they examine "antisemitic" sources- because you can't tell the truth here without being "antisemitic").......

even if we accept that it's the Jews..... or if we wanna be PC, we can say it's the "Illuminati"...... if we wanna super thinly veil things, we can say it's "the globalists" (which is a super blatant codeword for "the Jews")...... we might say "the reptilians"..... if we're drinking the "social justice" koolaid, we claim it's "capitalism"......

we might say it's "Satan", we might conceptualize it with whatever term.......

personally, I don't like being wishy-washy..... so suppose we say it's "the Jews"..... but I mean.... that's not even accurate..... you can't pin it all on "the Jews," "the elite," "the Illuminati"........

I mean let's face the facts....... all peoples are not the same.... and I'm not talking racism and I'm not talking biological determinism..... racism is a modern, Western concept where people claim such-and-such race is inferior/superior on the basis of genetics..... Darwin was involved with this and this whole way of thinking was used to try to justify colonialism.......

I assert that all peoples are not the same...... however, I do not assert this on the basis of racism.... I assert this on the basis of more ancient thinking.....

we have to look at the Quranic concept of history..... peoples rise and fall..... the unrighteous peoples fall and the more righteous peoples rise.... the more righteous become established in the land.....

Western civizilation and the relic that was its religion... it is falling... Muslim civilization is rising.... and this is deserved!

Who is more deserving to run the world? Who is better to run the world?

Do we want filth and indecency?!

If so, we can put Christians in charge. They'll be sure to allow filth and indecency. They don't have the spine to put a stop to it!

However... if we want decency.... if we want cleanliness.... let us put the Muslims in charge.

It is the rightful place of the Muslims to rule the world. God is on the side of the Muslims.

Muslims are destined to rule the world. It is the will of God.

And it is as it should be! If anyone claims they believe in God- yet they are not appalled at the filth and degeneracy in the atmosphere- I question their belief in God!

If you really believe in God, you should be disgusted! You should be outraged! You should find it intolerable!

Maybe the Christians don't really believe in God. The ship for Christianity is sinking.

If you say you believe in God and you mean it- be a Muslim.

People are sticking to Christianity because of culture. They're sticking to it because of desire. They're sticking to it because of custom.

Go through the evidence. The evidence is clearly for Islam. I am a proud follower of tthe religion Jesus (PBUH). And Jesus (PBUH) never said "worship me".
 





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#11
Most of the "Christians" themselves don't believe in the Bible. It is very bizarre how they expect me to believe in what they themselves don't even believe. They don't actually live it. They say they believe but in practice you see they don't really believe in what the Bible says. They follow their desires.
Those are very serious claims you are making.
The same thing i.e. faith =/= actions could be said about many Muslims or people of other faiths.

If you are referring to Christians on this forum only, I can point out several Muslims who completely go against your type of Islam (is it Sharia?). We don't need to discredit Islam by its believers.
 





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#13
Bases on the limited response to this post it's fair to say there isn't much to refute. The Christian religion comprises the majority of the world's population (2.3 bil.) but Islam isn't far behind (1.8 bil.). If it is the will of the Most High then someday we could all be organized under the name Islam. Personally I wouldn't have a problem belonging to such an order. People in Europe and the west are as much as ever slaves to the establishment's power structure. If we wanted an authentic pushback against the evil forces that attempt to exploit us, I trust there's no greater body than Islam prepared to draw a line in the sand. On a side note I've always loved that when Muhammad took control of al-Medinah (?) his constitution included religious tolerance (though all idols were destroyed), especially toward Jew and Christian.

It's logical to think as Jeshua and Muhammad had unique messages, their adherents differ as well... the temperament of those who identify themselves. Jesus was a wandering mystic, a monk. His purpose brings a spiritual, deeper grasp of the physical world- he's in the world but not of it. His level of enlightenment is so elusive, few humans ever obtain. True, those who are on a decidedly monastic path probably aren't the ones fit to contend in the political ring. They probably are more likely to roll over when threatened, for their attention is toward the metaphysical.

Continuing this thought, the contradiction between Christ's way of life and his (supposed) followers is dumbfounding. Here we have a bearded, long-haired, homeless, traveling, completely unattached soul, living without care for food or possessions; sustained by the Word of God and the aliveness of wisdom. Most don't understand there is a dual nature of his teachings- one for the public, and one for his initiated disciples/followers. It was as Godfrey Higgins suggests, a secret society. Those who claim to" follow" couldn't walk a step in that direction. I have an Aunt from New York who says she's afraid of camping lol!. In the west the religious experience consists of a quick, one hour gathering, then stop for fast-food on the way home where dad watches football and mom maybe sits around on facebook. Who knows what the children are watching on the "screen". This is a gross generalization, but honestly there isn't much substance to the general lifestyle. When I hear Trump labeling himself as a "Christian", good Lord I want to vomit. It's an example of how far is the divide between the author, the original, and his imitators.

One thing I feel- there must be a place for Christians, those (authentic) ascetics, within Islam. I think it was @AspiringSoul who mentioned the Sufi, who are not technically Muslim, but have always been protected and allowed to be. Muhammad, in multiple instances, showed mercy toward even his enemies. Don't forget the love, the compassion which is inborn. A Father loves his children. Surely he has set rules to observe, but his desire is that his young ones flourish and find happiness.

We have to be honest as well that currently there are polluted elements within Islam: the Saudi regime, the split between Shia and Sunni is an absolute disgrace. It's a fact that there are devils, pretenders, who hold positions of leadership throughout the Muslim world (speaking politically here). This may be more of an Arab thing than Islamic, but I've always been disgusted at the mistreatment and disrespect of Africans. There is a long history of abuses. I personally have know Muslim's who were brilliant figures, but the were secretly (funding) smuggling methamphetamine (they wouldn't drive that shit themselves). I mean curses on those who state alcohol is a sin, but will sell it at their shop for a profit. I'm not claiming blatant hypocrisy is the norm, but that it has to be eradicated too. We all need to lift our consciousness, especially those who are called to a position of leadership.
 





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#14
Bases on the limited response to this post it's fair to say there isn't much to refute. The Christian religion comprises the majority of the world's population (2.3 bil.) but Islam isn't far behind (1.8 bil.). If it is the will of the Most High then someday we could all be organized under the name Islam. Personally I wouldn't have a problem belonging to such an order. People in Europe and the west are as much as ever slaves to the establishment's power structure. If we wanted an authentic pushback against the evil forces that attempt to exploit us, I trust there's no greater body than Islam prepared to draw a line in the sand. On a side note I've always loved that when Muhammad took control of al-Medinah (?) his constitution included religious tolerance (though all idols were destroyed), especially toward Jew and Christian.

It's logical to think as Jeshua and Muhammad had unique messages, their adherents differ as well... the temperament of those who identify themselves. Jesus was a wandering mystic, a monk. His purpose brings a spiritual, deeper grasp of the physical world- he's in the world but not of it. His level of enlightenment is so elusive, few humans ever obtain. True, those who are on a decidedly monastic path probably aren't the ones fit to contend in the political ring. They probably are more likely to roll over when threatened, for their attention is toward the metaphysical.

Continuing this thought, the contradiction between Christ's way of life and his (supposed) followers is dumbfounding. Here we have a bearded, long-haired, homeless, traveling, completely unattached soul, living without care for food or possessions; sustained by the Word of God and the aliveness of wisdom. Most don't understand there is a dual nature of his teachings- one for the public, and one for his initiated disciples/followers. It was as Godfrey Higgins suggests, a secret society. Those who claim to" follow" couldn't walk a step in that direction. I have an Aunt from New York who says she's afraid of camping lol!. In the west the religious experience consists of a quick, one hour gathering, then stop for fast-food on the way home where dad watches football and mom maybe sits around on facebook. Who knows what the children are watching on the "screen". This is a gross generalization, but honestly there isn't much substance to the general lifestyle. When I hear Trump labeling himself as a "Christian", good Lord I want to vomit. It's an example of how far is the divide between the author, the original, and his imitators.

One thing I feel- there must be a place for Christians, those (authentic) ascetics, within Islam. I think it was @AspiringSoul who mentioned the Sufi, who are not technically Muslim, but have always been protected and allowed to be. Muhammad, in multiple instances, showed mercy toward even his enemies. Don't forget the love, the compassion which is inborn. A Father loves his children. Surely he has set rules to observe, but his desire is that his young ones flourish and find happiness.

We have to be honest as well that currently there are polluted elements within Islam: the Saudi regime, the split between Shia and Sunni is an absolute disgrace. It's a fact that there are devils, pretenders, who hold positions of leadership throughout the Muslim world (speaking politically here). This may be more of an Arab thing than Islamic, but I've always been disgusted at the mistreatment and disrespect of Africans. There is a long history of abuses. I personally have know Muslim's who were brilliant figures, but the were secretly (funding) smuggling methamphetamine (they wouldn't drive that shit themselves). I mean curses on those who state alcohol is a sin, but will sell it at their shop for a profit. I'm not claiming blatant hypocrisy is the norm, but that it has to be eradicated too. We all need to lift our consciousness, especially those who are called to a position of leadership.
Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible.
Jesus is God made Flesh, the Son of God.
Muhammad claimed Jesus is a mere prophet.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
 





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#15
Islam and Christianity are completely incompatible.
Jesus is God made Flesh, the Son of God.
Muhammad claimed Jesus is a mere prophet.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
They're compatible enough to hear each other out and live side by side. Check out the most multi-religious cites on the planet:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/per...p-10-inter-religious-cities-in-the-world.html

In Berlin they have one structure to share for worship and a space where the "big 3" clergy can talk together. Look at Jerusalem. The US isn't the center of the world. As said, people in the west are heavily indoctrinated with a fear and hatred for Islam. The age of illegal wars that every nation is guilty for is technically over. All our division does is strengthen the forces who would rather we didn't cherish traditional beliefs. It's ridiculous that these three religions and those who praise the same One God can't unite and destroy wickedness together.

Christians need to realize they are extremists. They are devoted to no other study, of any other book, than the NT (which 3/4 of was written by Paul). I think that type of devotion can be a blessed thing. There's nothing new about worshiping a person as your savior or God. The Sikh and Hindu have gurus who are their intermediary. Some of the saints were viewed in the same light. The Kings of Israel were nearly praised as the Almighty. It gets that real, the love for a King. Still I find it helpful to acknowledge these are extreme callings. No need to go off in arrogance about how your faith the only way. World Peace will never be achieved like that.

Not all those who read the word take every passage and statement literally. Much of the language is inspired and emotional. Jesus was chosen in his time. Christ is the Way because detachment from the material world is the purest path possible. If you want total liberation then dedication to the Creator and the Word is the only way. For those that need an example to discipline themselves then yes, the link to the teacher may be enough to live a tremendous life. God is infinite and all is eternal. The journey is to free ourselves of illusion and know in our heart and mind we're immortal. The truth isn't about miracles or a resurrection, it's the overwhelming sense that we are One with God.

6. "Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the LORD, to serve HIM, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His Servants- everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenent-
7. Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My alter; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations." - ISAIAH 56:6-7