Reincarnation Is An Irrefutable Fact

SquaredCircle

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Where does the Bible contradict itself @SquaredCircle? Examples?

What most people believe to be contradictions are either their own misunderstandings or misinterpretations. @phipps was actually arguing against his own misunderstanding of Hebrews 9:27 because the Bible does NOT contradict itself IF it's properly understood.
The two oldest bibles on earth contain no resurrection as well as over 60 thousand omitted words , added words , corrections etc...

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The first incarnation is physically, the second is spiritually. You gotta cross over first before you can see the light. Either you believe this now or later, when it's too late, that the mystery of God is no more. :)
You didn't answer the question.

How can God incarnate?
How can God only incarnate once?

Both views are extremely problematic on every level.
 






SquaredCircle

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True, the manuscript traditions (which obviously only date back as early as the third century, minus some single verse fragments) are utterly SHOCKING to learn about.
The deeper you get which that, the more shocking it gets.
Yet Christians take much later recensions and revisions (around the 8th century) as their authoritative sources for translation, etc.
Yeah if the new age Christian folks read our oldest and closest bibles in time to Jesus and the Church Fathers , their eyes would fall out of their heads !

Dr. Bart Ehrman came from Moody in Chicago and holds the chair of theology studies at Chapel Hill in the conservative bible belt ! Yet none of these fundamentalist would accept Ehrman as having authority, but some Church self taught theology nut has a genuine confraternity to god ????? LMAO
 






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Yeah if the new age Christian folks read our oldest and closest bibles in time to Jesus and the Church Fathers , their eyes would fall out of their heads !

Dr. Bart Ehrman came from Moody in Chicago and holds the chair of theology studies at Chapel Hill in the conservative bible belt ! Yet none of these fundamentalist would accept Ehrman as having authority, but some Church self taught theology nut has a genuine confraternity to god ????? LMAO
Yes and when logic is suspended too far with these fundis, any form of Protestantism becomes indiscernible - whether Baptist, Evangelical, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Pentecostal, etc.

Ironically at least the Catholic Church (despite utterly failing at everything) put it's foot down on relativism and heresy, whereas Protestants think that their heresy represents "Biblical Christianity" and ignore all obvious evidence that completely disproves their Anachronistic, eisiegetical fantasies.

Heck just look at the confusion and dying inside when you tell these fundis the truth that the doctrine of the Rapture only appeared in history around the 17th century. They're unable to deal with that, they're in denial (and likely have a panic attack when they learn things like that, even though they've plenty of resources at their disposal to learn about history).
 






SquaredCircle

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Yes and when logic is suspended too far with these fundis, any form of Protestantism becomes indiscernible - whether Baptist, Evangelical, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Pentecostal, etc.

Ironically at least the Catholic Church (despite utterly failing at everything) put it's foot down on relativism and heresy, whereas Protestants think that their heresy represents "Biblical Christianity" and ignore all obvious evidence that completely disproves their Anachronistic, eisiegetical fantasies.

Heck just look at the confusion and dying inside when you tell these fundis the truth that the doctrine of the Rapture only appeared in history around the 17th century. They're unable to deal with that, they're in denial (and likely have a panic attack when they learn things like that, even though they've plenty of resources at their disposal to learn about history).
Ignorance by choice is worse than stupidity!
 






SquaredCircle

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The closest truth of the mystery of Jesus and an acceptance of it is within the Orthodox Church .
Now Orthodoxy is far from the truth of Jesus , but a dose of the Church Fathers and the Ancient church would do these fundamentalist a great service !
 






elsbet

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Luke 3:23-38 (the lineage of Jesus traced back to Adam)
3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son-in-law] of Heli,
3:24 Which was [the son] of Matthat, which was [the son] of Levi, which was [the son] of Melchi, which was [the son] of Janna, which was [the son] of Joseph,
3:25 Which was [the son] of Mattathias, which was [the son] of Amos, which was [the son] of Naum, which was [the son] of Esli, which was [the son] of Nagge,
3:26 Which was [the son] of Maath, which was [the son] of Mattathias, which was [the son] of Semei, which was [the son] of Joseph, which was [the son] of Juda,
3:27 Which was [the son] of Joanna, which was [the son] of Rhesa, which was [the son] of Zorobabel, which was [the son] of Salathiel, which was [the son] of Neri,
3:28 Which was [the son] of Melchi, which was [the son] of Addi, which was [the son] of Cosam, which was [the son] of Elmodam, which was [the son] of Er,
3:29 Which was [the son] of Jose, which was [the son] of Eliezer, which was [the son] of Jorim, which was [the son] of Matthat, which was [the son] of Levi,
3:30 Which was [the son] of Simeon, which was [the son] of Juda, which was [the son] of Joseph, which was [the son] of Jonan, which was [the son] of Eliakim,
3:31 Which was [the son] of Melea, which was [the son] of Menan, which was [the son] of Mattatha, which was [the son] of Nathan, which was [the son] of David,
3:32 Which was [the son] of Jesse, which was [the son] of Obed, which was [the son] of Boaz, which was [the son] of Salmon, which was [the son] of Naasson,
3:33 Which was [the son] of Aminadab, which was [the son] of Aram, which was [the son] of Esrom, which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Judah,
3:34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,
3:35 Which was [the son] of Saruch, which was [the son] of Ragau, which was [the son] of Phalec, which was [the son] of Heber, which was [the son] of Sala,
3:36 Which was [the son] of Arphaxad, which was [the son] of Shem, which was [the son] of Noah, which was [the son] of Lamech,
3:37 Which was [the son] of Methuselah, which was [the son] of Enoch, which was [the son] of Jared, which was [the son] of Mahalaleel, which was [the son] of Cainan,
3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God.


Agreed. Christ is the Firstborn Son of the Almighty God. And Christ will live forever, just as all of His Brethren will.

Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren.
The Firstborn from the grave... (Colossians 1:18).


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
 






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The Firstborn from the grave... (Colossians 1:18).


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
It'd help to really try to understand what John 15:1-5 is really actually saying, it may help you to understand what the concept of the "son is the image of the invisible God" actually MEANS.


“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
 






elsbet

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I wonder if its even possible to believe/convict that Jesus is God without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
That's a good question. I'm thinking No-- it doesn't seem to be possible. I've yet to see someone who is even nuetral on the matter, or undecided. It appears to be one or the other-- black or white-- nothing in between.

EDIT- I WOULD SAY INFLUENCE, I THINK, RATHER THAN INDWELLING... TECHNICALLY, ONE MUST FIRST BELIEVE, RIGHT? :)
 






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I wonder if its even possible to believe/convict that Jesus is God without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Other way around.

Is it possible to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without any belief/conviction that "Jesus is God"?

And to that I'd say a 100% affirmative, positive, confirmation of, yes, this is what most religions have already. No to Jesus (idolatry) but yes holy spirit (God's presence).

Once you grow to understand this, you see life through sober eyes.
 






floss

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That's a good question. I'm thinking No-- it doesn't seem to be possible. I've yet to see someone who is even nuetral on the matter, or undecided. It appears to be one or the other-- black or white-- nothing in between.

EDIT- I WOULD SAY INFLUENCE, I THINK, RATHER THAN INDWELLING... TECHNICALLY, ONE MUST FIRST BELIEVE, RIGHT? :)
Its all come back to the required faith of a mustard seed, which sadly many does not have.

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As for the first portion of this verse. Do you believe a saved Christian can spew "Jesus F****** Christ" out of their mouth? Every time I hear someone say that, it tell me they are spiritually ill.
 






floss

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Other way around.

Is it possible to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without any belief/conviction that "Jesus is God"?

And to that I'd say a 100% affirmative, positive, confirmation of, yes, this is what most religions have already. No to Jesus (idolatry) but yes holy spirit (God's presence).

Once you grow to understand this, you see life through sober eyes.
If you don't believe Jesus is God:

yes - you can have the indwelling of god's "holy" spirit

no - you cannot have the indwelling of GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
 






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no - you cannot have the indwelling of GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
What is your evidence?

Basically what you're saying is that everyone who believed and followed God before Jesus didn't have the holy spirit at all and were simply wasting their time, including even Moses himself. This just isn't believable. It's more believable that God doesn't change and that ignorantly worshiping idols like Jesus don't help you at all with God.
 






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Calling Jesus God, is like calling my dog "God" or calling my hairdresser "God", or calling your mailman "God".

Either you believe in God (Monotheism) or you believe in idolatry (Jesus).

Idolatry (Jesus) will not get you saved, it will only cripple yourself from knowing God (monotheism).
 






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Do you believe a saved Christian can spew "Jesus F****** Christ" out of their mouth?
Well technically, "Jesus" was not even his actual name, he spoke Aramaic afterall, whereas "Christ" comes from the Englishizing of the Greek word "Christos".
Jesus was neither a speaker of Greek nor English (incase you believe the KJV was delivered by God on the back of a flying horse).

"Jesus" itself is an amalgamation of the Greek word for "Joshua" and the Latin "Iesous".

So if we are to be technical, "Jesus f*** Christ" is not referring to even the idol of the so-called "Christian" religion, but a twisted through linguistic evolution of the supposed name of the figure in question.

The term "Jesus Christ" also does not make any sense, a more correct term would be "Jesus the Christ", in the sense of emphasizing his claimant to being such. However the New Testament itself calls him "Jesus of Nazareth" which is the most correct name for him in english.
Eshu Natsraya would be the most historically accurate name for him, if you were to be honest.
 






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It's kind of funny how American Christianity is, rather than it's original Middle Eastern Semitic intersection of Jewish/Roman culture it emerges out of. Really weird actually. The Bible and Christianity simply have no resemblance to each other at all.
 






A Freeman

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"The I am" is improper english

I am me, you are you.
The reason Father has the name "I AM" is because He is the Self-Existing ONE. It was also to help us overcome our worst enemy: the ego "self", which cannot stop talking about itself, bragging about itself, and inflating itself. Hence the COMMANDMENT not to take Father's Name in vain, as people routinely do whilst their humans talk about themselves (e.g. "I am the best at this or that", etc.).
 






A Freeman

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Well technically, "Jesus" was not even his actual name, he spoke Aramaic afterall, whereas "Christ" comes from the Englishizing of the Greek word "Christos".
Jesus was neither a speaker of Greek nor English (incase you believe the KJV was delivered by God on the back of a flying horse).

"Jesus" itself is an amalgamation of the Greek word for "Joshua" and the Latin "Iesous".

So if we are to be technical, "Jesus f*** Christ" is not referring to even the idol of the so-called "Christian" religion, but a twisted through linguistic evolution of the supposed name of the figure in question.

The term "Jesus Christ" also does not make any sense, a more correct term would be "Jesus the Christ", in the sense of emphasizing his claimant to being such. However the New Testament itself calls him "Jesus of Nazareth" which is the most correct name for him in english.
Eshu Natsraya would be the most historically accurate name for him, if you were to be honest.
Technically, the name Jesus is a TITLE which, in English, means "Saviour", just as Messiah/Christos/Christ/Mahdi means "the Anointed One" or "Enlightened One" (the same as the title "Buddha").

Jesus was the human son born of the virgin body of Mary 2000 years ago, which Christ, the spirit-Being Who is God's Eldest/Firstborn Son INCARNATED, forming the human+Being we refer to as Jesus+Christ. So Jesus+Christ does make perfect sense, and it was also meant to teach us about our own true, spiritual selves, i.e. that we are spirit-Beings (Souls/Jinns) that are temporarily incarnated in these human animal bodies that we see in the mirror.

And while you're absolutely correct that Jesus is NOT God, nor ever claimed to be, nor could have been, it is very disrespectful of you to give Him an expletive for a middle name. Would you do the same to Muhammed Mustafa (peace be upon him)?

Also, the town of Nazareth didn't exist until the 4th century A.D., so He wasn't Jesus of Nazareth (Jesus was born in Bethlehem); He was Jesus the Nazarite (Nazir is Hebrew for "Truth" - see also Num. 6). Jesus spent His formative years in ENGLAND, where He began His ministry with the "lost sheep of the House of Israel (the 10 "lost" tribes of Israel). That's why he was asked to pay the stranger's tax when He later came to Palestine.

Read: Glastonbury

And that's also why there is no mention in the Gospels of his being in Israel except for on one occasion at age twelve when he visited The Temple, as was the custom.
 






A Freeman

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The Firstborn from the grave... (Colossians 1:18).


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
Yes, but He is also THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE, i.e. the very first spirit-Being/Son of God that Father (Who is God) created.

Romans 8:28-29
8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [His] purpose.
8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among MANY brethren.

Colossians 1:12-18
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of every creature:
1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for him:
1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the community: who is THE BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell*;

*Which is why Father (God) made/created His Dear Son, known here on Earth as Christ, FIRST; i.e. Christ was the BEGINNING of the creation of God.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING of the creation OF God;
 






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