Reincarnation Is An Irrefutable Fact

[Tulochen]

Arthur Schopenhauer is quoted as having said: "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

love me some schopenhauer, no use for theosophical ideologies tho.

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: "

"You shall NOT surely die" is the oldest lie ever told

 

[Flarepath]

Yeah but there are also plenty of men who can't see the Big Picture, that's why plenty of shortsighted men and women voted for Biden, even though he pledged to allow Iran to build nukes, you couldn't make it up..

 

[Tulochen]

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Yeah but there are also plenty of men who can't see the Big Picture, that's why plenty of shortsighted men and women voted for Biden, even though he pledged to allow Iran to build nukes, you couldn't make it up..

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Honestly, we in the west have shown the rest of the world that if you don't want us bringing our brand of Democracy into your country, you better get yourself a nuke. Persia, the civilization that gave the world Chess- aren't the backwards cretins that AIPAC would like us to think they are, if how long Israel has suspected they are taking to build that nuke, is any evidence.... only 4 months from completion, since 1984...

 

[A Freeman]

View attachment 102961

love me some schopenhauer, no use for theosophical ideologies tho.

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: "

"You shall NOT surely die" is the oldest lie ever told

View attachment 102962

Hebrews 9:27 has already been covered. It very obviously isn't referring to the physical death of the body, or it would be contradicting the fact that there were a number of individuals in the Bible that we know experienced physical death at least twice, and a couple that didn't experience physical death even once (Enoch and Elijah).

Reincarnation Is An Irrefutable Fact

The following is an honest look at Hebrews 9:27, which is frequently quoted by "Christians" as alleged proof of their mistaken belief in "YOLO", instead of in YHWH (the " I AM") and His Word. Because reading comprehension is currently almost non-existent, certain key terms will be capitalized...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

Blavatasky has no place in this thread. Her nonsense is a separate subject that should be addressed in a separate thread.

Concerning death, on Judgment Day, most of this world will go into The Fire, which is the second death (the death of the soul/spiritual-Being). Those who are redeemed from the Earth (the 144,000), will obviously not experience the second death.

And with regard to "the greatest lie ever told" in the Garden of Eden, when Satan conned Eve into believing that she was only human, and needed to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (thereby becoming confused) to become a "god" (a spiritual-Being/Soul), Eve (and Adam afterwards) should have known better than to believe the exact opposite of what God instructed. As God has told us, we are spiritual-Beings clothed in a human animal body (a human+Being),so we (the spiritual-Being) are not naked.

When Adam and Eve had their human eyes opened (and their spiritual eyes shut), they saw themselves as naked humans, instead of spiritual-Beings clothed in a human animal body. This was the fall of mankind from God, which has been getting worse ever since. It's so bad now that people argue against on of the core teachings of the Bible and Quran (reincarnation) and believe they do God a service in promoting the exact opposite of what God teaches.

 

[phipps]

The pagan notion of an immortal soul provides the foundation for the unbiblical theory of reincarnation or transmigration of the soul. This theory has been adopted by some major world religions. While most Christians believe in the existence of an immortal soul that abides in a permanent heaven or hell after death, those who believe in reincarnation hold that such an immortal soul goes through many cycles of death and rebirth here on earth.

For some, reincarnation is thought to be a process of spiritual evolution that allows the spirit to attain ever greater levels of knowledge and morality in its journey toward perfection.

Hindus believe that the eternal soul goes through a progression of consciousness or “samsara” at six classes of life: aquatics, plants, reptiles and insects, birds, animals, and human beings, including the residents of heaven.

Many people believe not in what they should believe but in what they want to believe. If a theory brings them existential peace and comfort, that is enough to settle the discussion for them. But for those who take the Bible seriously, there is no way to accept the theory of reincarnation.

- First, this theory contradicts the biblical teachings of the mortality of the “soul” and the resurrection of the body (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

- Second, it negates the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10) and replaces it by human works.

- Third, the theory contradicts the biblical teaching that eternal destiny is decided forever by one’s choices in this life (Matthew 22:1-14, Matthew 25:31-46).

- Fourth, this theory downplays the meaning and relevance of Christ’s second coming (John 14:1-3).

- And fifth, the theory proposes after-death opportunities for someone still to overcome his or her own life’s pitfalls, which is unbiblical (Hebrews 9:27).

In short, there is no place for the idea of reincarnation in the Christian faith.

 

[phipps]

Biblically human being are living souls/beings. Living souls/beings are made up of physical bodies and the breath of life/spirit, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

Biblically human beings are one unit. When we die, everything dies. Our physical bodies, our minds and the part of us that can respond to God. However, God keeps a record of us from the moment of conception in the books of heaven, "My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them" (Psalm 139:15-16).

We may cease to exist temporarily but we will all resurrect one day. The righteous and unrighteous people will both stand up again, for that is what resurrection means. They will resurrect at different times though (John 5:28).

 

[elsbet's cat ^. .^]

Hebrews 9:27 has already been covered. It very obviously isn't referring to the physical death of the body, or it would be contradicting the fact that there were a number of individuals in the Bible that we know experienced physical death at least twice, and a couple that didn't experience physical death even once (Enoch and Elijah).

True, concerning death and translation of those few... however, the events were not arbitrary. They served to illustrate the purposes and, more importantly, the sovereignty of God- which is also documented.

 

[A Freeman]

Scripture was written for spiritual-Beings (Souls).

No human has ever understood Scripture, because it is completely foreign to them. Humans are born on this planet, spend their lives on this planet and die on this planet, and die on this planet (where Satan is the temporary prince), and thus are incapable of understanding anything that doesn't originate from this planet.

That is why humans come and make posts about how reincarnation cannot be possible, or how it goes against their particular brand of worldly (satanic) organized religion, or how it belongs in another brand of (satanic) worldly religion. They simply cannot (and never will) grasp that we were sent here 6000 years ago, and forced to submit to human limitations as part of the rehabilitation program that kept us from being immediately executed for treason.

It is exactly why Christ said that unless one is born again from above, as their true , spiritual self, they cannot even see the Kingdom of God (the spiritual world - God is a Spiritual-Being - John 4:24), much less enter it.

Everything that has been personally posted in this thread (hundreds of verses) is straight out of Scripture (the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and the Koran/Quran), which contains NUMEROUS references to reincarnation.

 

[Flarepath]

Jesus said to the bloke on the cross next to him-
"Today you'll be with me in paradise", he made no mention of coming back in another body..

 

[A Freeman]

Irrefutable proof that "paradise" and heaven are two different places:

Luke 23:39-43 (while being crucified (on Wednesday, the day of Passover)
23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, TO DAY shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 20:11-17 (more than 3 days and 3 nights after the crucifixion, on the morning after the resurrection of Jesus)
20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, [and looked] into the sepulchre,
20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
20:13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father (which art in heaven - Matthew 6:9): but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

As we can clearly see from the two passages above, paradise and heaven cannot possibly be the same place. Anyone claiming differently is calling Christ (the Truth - John 14:6) a liar.

Paradise (para dice - to be told) is where each soul is taken upon being liberated from the body at the death of the body, to receive its life review.

Once the soul (spirit-Being) has received the review of the human life it has just experienced, all of the evil it has done is erased, and it is sent back with only the cumulative good it has done in all of its previous lifetimes, being placed into a body commensurate with its life review.

That way, each soul is in the exact place it has earned a right to be, in eternal time.

Perfect divine justice.

 

[Flarepath]

At the last supper, Jesus said to his mates- "The next time I drink wine, i'll be drinking it with you in my fathers kingdom...i go to prepare a place for you".
See, no mention of them getting reborn into a new body..

 

[A Freeman]

Matthew 16:24-28
16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and THEN* he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste death (of the "Self"), till they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.

*On the Last Day (Judgment Day - SOON), when all of us are due to be judged by our works

It should be self-evident that the ONLY Way Christ could have a glass of wine with His Disciples 2000 years later in His Father's Kingdom would be after His Second Coming, in a new body (from Joseph-Ephraim - Gen. 49:10; 22-24) with a new name (Rev. 2:17; 3:12; 19:12).

 

[Flarepath]

..It should be self-evident that the ONLY Way Christ could have a glass of wine with His Disciples 2000 years later in His Father's Kingdom would be after His Second Coming, in a new body (from Joseph-Ephraim - Gen. 49:10; 22-24) with a new name (Rev. 2:17; 3:12; 19:12).

When we die, our souls fly to that great spiritual realm in the sky and we become 'spirit beings', free of our squishy fleshy bodies once and for all..-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

 

[A Freeman]

When we die, our souls fly to that great spiritual realm in the sky and we become 'spirit beings', free of our squishy fleshy bodies once and for all..-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

We are NOT humans who have souls; we are souls (spiritual-Beings) temporarily having a human experience.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

When someone awakens to this irrefutable fact, they are forever changed, "in the twinkling of an eye".

 

[Flarepath]

There are some nasty rotters about, so if they've been repeatedly born into new bodies over the centuries and still haven't changed their ways, reincarnation certainly hasn't done them a bit of good..

 

[A Freeman]

There are some nasty rotters about, so if they've been repeatedly born into new bodies over the centuries and still haven't changed their ways, reincarnation certainly hasn't done them a bit of good..

Agreed. That's why all but 144,000 are going into The Fire on Judgment Day, exactly as Christ warned us.

It's actually summed up well in the Gospel account recorded by Thomas (which the church wrongfully removed from the Bible).

Thomas 5:6-7
5:6 Jesus said: If you fast not from the world, you will not find The Kingdom; if you keep not the Sabbath as Sabbath, you will not see the Father.
5:7 Jesus said: I (Christ) took my stand in the midst of the world and in flesh (inside Jesus) I appeared to them; I found them all drunk, I found none among them athirst. And my soul was afflicted for the sons of men because they are blind in their hearts, and do not see that empty they have come into the world, and that empty they seek to go out of the world AGAIN.

 

[FilthPig]

There are some nasty rotters about, so if they've been repeatedly born into new bodies over the centuries and still haven't changed their ways, reincarnation certainly hasn't done them a bit of good..

Look at all the ignorance in this world.It does seem to take dozens of reincarnations to teach a soul how to conduct themselves properly.
In christianity you fuck up once and you will suffer for eternity... Whatever god came up with that kinds of system doesnt seem to be very merciful.
Why create these ignorant souls in the first place,just to make them suffer here and later? This kind of god is pretty damn sadistic. Not my cup of tea.

 

[phipps]

Agreed. That's why all but 144,000 are going into The Fire on Judgment Day, exactly as Christ warned us.

It's actually summed up well in the Gospel account recorded by Thomas (which the church wrongfully removed from the Bible).

Thomas 5:6-7
5:6 Jesus said: If you fast not from the world, you will not find The Kingdom; if you keep not the Sabbath as Sabbath, you will not see the Father.
5:7 Jesus said: I (Christ) took my stand in the midst of the world and in flesh (inside Jesus) I appeared to them; I found them all drunk, I found none among them athirst. And my soul was afflicted for the sons of men because they are blind in their hearts, and do not see that empty they have come into the world, and that empty they seek to go out of the world AGAIN.

This is not true at all, not biblically. Remember that Revelation uses symbolic language. And whenever the 144,000 are mentioned it is used as part of symbolic language in the chapters they are written. 144,000 is a symbol for God’s people.

I have a thread on Bible numbers and what they mean. I posted, "12 – Represents the church and God’s authority. Jesus had 12 disciples, and there were 12 tribes of Israel. In Revelation 12:1, the 24 elders and 144,000 are multiples of 12. The New Jerusalem city has12 foundations, 12 gates 12 thousand furlongs, a tree with 12 kinds of fruit 12 times a year eaten by 12 times 12,000 or the 144,000. (See Revelation 21.)"

The number 144,000 is made up of 12 x 12 x 1,000. 12 is a symbol for God’s people as posted above. There were 12 family groups in Israel. Also, Jesus’ 12 followers built up His church. So, we see the number 144,000 is a word picture, not a real number. The number 144,000 means all of God’s people alive on the earth when Jesus comes back at His Second Coming:

Romans11:26, "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

1 Corinthians 15:51-53, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Of course the 12 family groups in Revelation are not the same family groups of Israel in the Old Testament. In the New Covenant Israel represents all those who have faith in Jesus and submit to Him regardless of national status or physical citizenship.

 

[A Freeman]

This is not true at all, not biblically. Remember that Revelation is symbolic language. And whenever the 144,000 are mentioned it is used as part of symbolic language in the chapters they are written. 144,000 is a symbol for God’s people.

I have a thread on Bible numbers and what they mean. I posted, "12 – Represents the church and God’s authority. Jesus had 12 disciples, and there were 12 tribes of Israel. In Revelation 12:1, the 24 elders and 144,000 are multiples of 12. The New Jerusalem city has12 foundations, 12 gates 12 thousand furlongs, a tree with 12 kinds of fruit 12 times a year eaten by 12 times 12,000 or the 144,000. (See Revelation 21.)"

The number 144,000 is made up of 12 x 12 x 1,000. 12 is a symbol for God’s people as posted above. There were 12 family groups in Israel. Also, Jesus’ 12 followers built up His church. So, we see the number 144,000 is a word picture, not a real number. The number 144,000 means all of God’s people alive on the earth when Jesus comes back at His Second Coming:

Romans11:26, "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

1 Corinthians 15:51-53, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Of course the 12 family groups in Revelation are not the same family groups of Israel in the Old Testament. In the New Covenant Israel represents all those who have faith in Jesus and submit to Him regardless of national status or physical citizenship.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Anyone who argues against what Christ said is arguing for the Opposer/Satan (Matt. 12:30).

Here is what Christ actually said, in His Revelation to John about those who will be redeemed from the Earth.

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).

The 144,000 that are redeemed from the Earth -- all of whom are from the tribes of Israel -- is NOT "symbolic"; it means exactly what it says.

Anyone who claims differently, while trying to con others into believing that Christ didn't really mean exactly what Christ (The Word OF God) said, should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[phipps]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Anyone who argues against what Christ said is arguing for the Opposer/Satan (Matt. 12:30).

Here is what Christ actually said, in His Revelation to John about those who will be redeemed from the Earth.

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).

The 144,000 that are redeemed from the Earth -- all of whom are from the tribes of Israel -- is NOT "symbolic"; it means exactly what it says.

Anyone who claims differently, while trying to con others into believing that Christ didn't really mean exactly what Christ (The Word OF God) said, should be ashamed of themselves.

If the chapters use symbolic language throughout, then the number is symbolic too.

If the 144,000 is a literal number and they are the only ones who will be saved when Jesus returns the second time, then even most true Christians will be lost. They have no chance of being saved.

Can you imagine only 144,000 people out of nearly 7 billion people? The Bible does not teach that the 144,000 are to be the only ones saved in the last days. Revelation 7:9 tells us, "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands."

So there are others who are going to be saved (the multitude). But the symbolic 144,000 are a special group who are called the “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) because of the special work they will do and the suffering they'll go through before Jesus returns.

First fruits in the Bible means first in importance sometimes. Jesus is described as the first fruits that slept but He was not the first to rise from the dead. He was the first in importance to rise from the dead. So the 144,000 will be alive (Revelation 14:3-4) when Jesus returns so will be the first to be reaped and they represent the best of the harvest too.

Also the 144,000 in the last days are spiritual Jews, scattered around the world and they will lead in a huge and magnificent revival in the parts of the world where they will be.