Regular Jewish prayers being held daily on Temple Mount

Red Sky at Morning

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If a prophecy is fulfilled, it is fulfilled. What terms do you think still need to be met before you accept that the rebirth of Israel as fulfilled prophecy?
I think the nations will be offered some confirmation they will find it rather hard to dismiss at some point in the future...

Ezekiel 38

17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.
 
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Anyway, in fifty years time that whole area in Jerusalem will probably just be a renovated and commercialized shopping mall anyway, lmao.
Don't underestimate the religious and mystical aspect of Zionism. The Temple restoration is its fundamental principle to rule the temporal world by means of usury and the spiritual world by means of blood sacrifice. The Temple of Jerusalem is meant to become the World's capital in both faith and banking, religion and finance, endebting people in sin as well as money.
 

phipps

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What would it take for the Jews to regain control of Jerusalem? Three things:

First,
they would have to once again have supreme authority over the entire city of Jerusalem. This has not happened in over two thousand years, and it will never happen again. "thus says the Lord God: “Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing shall remain the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no longer, Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it to Him.” Ezekiel 21:26-27.

T
he prophecy cannot be changed. Israel lost Jerusalem because it slew Christ, and the Lord has no intention of giving it back to them now. When "He comes whose right it is," the New Jerusalem will be given to Him and His people.

The land (Jerusalem included) was always promised to them on condition of obedience to Gods laws. Failing to do this, they lost the land. Take a concordance and check all the promises to the patriarchs. They were all conditioned on obedience, and the reward was always the land.

They lost part of the land when the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Samaria (2 Kings 18:9-10) and they lost the southern part and Jerusalem when the Babylonians took it (2 Kings 25:1-21) in the eleventh year of Zedekiah. The final loss (Matthew 24:1-2) came in A.D. 70. (A small effort by the Jews to retake Jerusalem, in A.D. 135, did not amount to anything and was quickly put down.)

Second, the Jews will not have regained control of Jerusalem until they have supreme control over the Temple Mount. Do not underrate this! In answer to questions as to why the Jews no longer have the required animal sacrifices, the rabbis explain to their people that they cannot do so until they can once again sacrifice them in a restored Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

But that will never happen. Never again will they rebuild their Temple. Never again will they offer the required animal sacrifices. All the rabbis can now do is to instruct the faithful to kill a chicken at home once a year on Passover evening, as the father waves it over the heads of the family, prior to its being roasted and eaten. Until they regain control of the Temple Mount, the Jews cannot even have priests!

What is the holiest place in the world for a Jew? It is no longer the Temple Mount, for that is no longer theirs. They go to the base of the Temple Mount, before the Wailing Wall (now called the Western Wall). Why do they not go up on top and hold their religious services there? Because the Arabs, who control it, would riot and slay them.

Recognizing their helplessness in the situation, the highest governmental authority in Israel decreed, after the Six-day War in 1967, that only the Arabs may hold religious services on the Temple Mount and that all other Gentiles may trample, day after day, over its once-sacred precincts. The only churches up on top are Islamic ones, where Mohammed, the man who hated the God of Israel, is worshipped along with a false god.

Instead, Jews stand before an old rock wall, down at the base of the Temple Mount, while the two Islamic mosques on top are second only to the mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia the holiest place in the Islamic world. The Dome of the Rock (also called the Mosque of Omar) is the large golden-domed one. Just south of it is the Al Aqsa Mosque, from whence, according to Islamic legend, Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse. Every faithful Muslim wants to journey to Mecca once and, hopefully, to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem also, so he can be assured a place in heaven.

What makes the Temple Mount the second most sacred place in the world to the Muslim? That legend about Mohammed taking flight to heaven from there.

Third, the Gentiles must be kept from treading on the Temple Mount. It is an abomination for Gentiles to stand on, or near the holy place. Not even Jewish women or children were permitted near it. The Gentiles must be kept from treading on the Temple Mount.

The Bible says: "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." Luke 21:24.

That is the carefully worded prediction of Christ, and it is being fulfilled to the letter. Jerusalem all of it, including the Temple Mount continues to be trodden down by Gentiles. More foreign tourists tramp across its face than ever occurred before in its 4,000-year history. This will continue until Christ returns.

Intriguingly enough, the Jews excuse the fact that they are not permitted to worship on top of the Temple Mount, by saying the opposite of what Christ said!

"The presence of God is so strong [on the Temple Mount] that, according to Jewish halacha (law), human beings are too impure to tread atop the Temple Mount until, that is, the End of Days and the coming of the Messiah. So the devout [Jews] go [below] to the large Western Wall and to the Kotel ha-Katan, or Little Wall." Newsweek, July 24, 2000.

Their excuse is a mammoth effort at self-deception, since tourists from all over the world daily tramp all over the Temple Mount, and the worst people of all are the Arabs who are by Israeli law the only group permitted to pray and worship on the Temple Mount!

Who are the "Gentiles" of Luke 21:24? The Greek word for this means "nations"; that is, all non-Jewish races. Everyone not a Jew is a Gentile. This includes nearly all the tourists from Europe and North America. It also includes all the Muslims. Although descendants of Ishmael, they are not Jews!

The Temple Mount was overrun by Babylonians when they razed it in 586 B.C. Later, upon their return, although they never again regained supreme authority over the land, the Jews were permitted at various times to control and access the Temple and its environs. But all this ended in A.D. 70 forever after the Romans attacked it.

Never again will the Jews be able to have the authority to say who can step on the Temple Mount and who can not. The feet of the Gentiles have trodden upon it from that day to this. Indeed, since the 1967 Six-day War, more Gentiles than ever have been treading on the Temple Mount!

Although the Jews know better than to visit it very often, a continual horde of Arabs and tourists flock to the Dome of the Rock. In order to placate the Western powers, the Israeli government decreed that people of all religions could walk on the Temple Mount. Does that sound like the treading of Gentile feet on its sacred precincts has stopped? When they retook West Jerusalem in 1946, to placate the Western powers, the Israelis declared that all portions of Jerusalem were "internationalized." Does that sound like Jerusalem is really theirs?

The truth is this: There is nothing sacred about the top of the Temple Mount any more to Protestants, Catholics, or Jews. It just represents where something used to be, but no longer is.

What would happen if the Jews tried to stop the treading of Gentile feet on the Temple Mount? Muslims in the world would arise in warfare.

What would happen if the Jews tried to rebuild the Temple, so they could once again proclaim that they had truly returned to Jerusalem? A holy gihad would be sounded.



 
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phipps

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I agree with you on this, there is nothing in Orthodox Judaism, nor Christianity, nor even Islam about these superstitious ideas. They are very late ideas (post-1700AD) that evolved into a facet of the Zionist ideology, they cannot be found in the legitimate beliefs of either three religions.
The complete absence of it in those religions combined with the mindless insistence on prophecies being fulfilled about it just goes to show where so many people's heads are :rolleyes:

Anyway, in fifty years time that whole area in Jerusalem will probably just be a renovated and commercialized shopping mall anyway, lmao.
I doubt Muslims will ever agree to commercialise an area that has the second important mosques to them.
 

Thunderian

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I think it's pertinent to ask if this fulfillment is due to divine providence or due to human machinations. Surely you wouldn't be equally supportive in both instances?
If God predicts something will happen, how do you determine if the means by which it comes about are legitimate?

What difference does it make? The thing which was predicted has come true. Prophecy is fulfilled. As far as I’m concerned, questioning the means of fulfillment isn’t a legitimate argument against an actual fulfilled prophecy. If the means of fulfillment don’t contradict any part of the prophecy, what difference does it make how it comes to pass?

In the case of Israel’s rebirth — which is predicted outright in several places in scripture, and is taken as a matter of fact in hundreds of other prophetic passages — what part of it’s fulfillment do you take exception to? Do you feel that Zionists have somehow cheated God’s prophecy out of it’s natural fulfillment, because men have wished, for one reason or another, to work toward a revived nation of Israel? On what grounds do you declare the fulfilled word of God to be illegitimate?

How ridiculous is it, when you stop to contemplate all of it, to think that the past 2000 years of Jewish history was some planned set-up, in collusion with Christian Zionists, so that Jews in 1948 could claim a sliver of land that had been theirs 3000 years before, all to fake fulfillment of a prophecy no one else accepts anyway? Does that make a lick of sense?
 

Thunderian

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I think the nations will be offered some confirmation they will find it rather hard to dismiss at some point in the future...

Ezekiel 38

17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.
Now I’m thinking about Russia’s role in what’s to come. Before the Pax Arabica (to coin a term) can be set into place, Iran needs to be dealt with, and that means Russia needs to be dealt with. It’s almost a certainty that we’ll see a big war before the big peace.

Just today, Israeli warplanes bombed Iranian targets in Syria, who are operating under the blessing of Russia. To reach their targets, the IAF flew — with permission — through Jordanian and Iraqi airspace. It really is a whole new Middle East.
 

phipps

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JERUSALEM AND THE MOUNT

The Bible pattern has always been clear: God's people must obey in order to receive His blessing. Disobedience would bring scattering among the heathen. But, then they returned!

What had happened? Had the Scripture been broken? Here are several facts we need to consider:

(1) If the Jews were scattered because of disobedience, they could only return because they had changed their ways and were now obeying. But this has not happened. How then could they be said to have returned? Have they really returned? Exactly what was predicted?

(2) The Jews have indeed returned to management of Jerusalem, but they have not regained control of the Temple Mount. Because of that, they cannot rebuild the Temple, and restore the ancient rituals of the Jewish religion. Until that happens, they have not really "returned" to Jerusalem. They lack full governmental authority.

(3) More specifically than being carried away from their own land, the Bible prediction was that, If they disobeyed, the Jews would be scattered among the heathen. As long as they remain among the heathen, the fulfilment of the Bible prophecies remain in place; they have not been reversed, obsoleted, or broken. The Jews today live among the heathen In Jerusalem; both Christians and Muslims are all about them. (The Biblical word, "Gentile," means "the nations" or "non-Jews," so it would include Arabs as well as other non-Jewish peoples.)

Indeed, Gentile tourists from all over the world tread upon the sacred Mount every day. Old Testament law prohibited that. The entire top of the Temple site is now a Muslim shrine; few Jews go there. They dare not even put a small synagogue in the corner of that spacious 35-acre area. Yet every Jew knows it ought to be the most sacred place in their hearts and religion. But what are they to do? They cannot worship the true God in or near a Muslim mosque. And they dare not remove a board of the two Islamic shrines on that Mount.

Thus, in several ways, the prediction remains unbroken. God's Word is true, and has not been nullified.

The punishment of being mingled with the Gentiles, in lands not fully theirs, is referred to as "the times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24). Those times have not ceased: [1] The Jews remain among the Gentiles to this day. [2] The Gentiles continue to tread across the Jewish holy place. [3] The holy place of the Jews to be dedicated to a pagan deity, not to the God of Israel.

So, until these conditions are met, the Jews cannot be said to have genuinely "returned to Jerusalem." For centuries, they were scattered among the nations; today they are still scattered among the nations, and also scattered in their own land among the nations. Till the second coming of Christ, they will dwell among Gentiles, and Gentiles will worship in their holy place.
 
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If God predicts something will happen, how do you determine if the means by which it comes about are legitimate?

What difference does it make? The thing which was predicted has come true. Prophecy is fulfilled. As far as I’m concerned, questioning the means of fulfillment isn’t a legitimate argument against an actual fulfilled prophecy. If the means of fulfillment don’t contradict any part of the prophecy, what difference does it make how it comes to pass?
The question was if you would support it if the prophecy was being fulfilled by people who were not doing God's Will. Does that change anything for you? Christ's return has been prophesied, but so has the Antichrist's. Either the Saviour is sent by God or he is sent by people. The difference is everything.
 

Thunderian

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The question was if you would support it if the prophecy was being fulfilled by people who were not doing God's Will. Does that change anything for you? Christ's return has been prophesied, but so has the Antichrist's. Either the Saviour is sent by God or he is sent by people. The difference is everything.
As I asked already, what part of the fulfillment of God’s prophecy in relation to the rebirth of Israel do you feel is out of order? Do you think someone has put something over on God when it comes to Israel?
 

Thunderian

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Let me add: Whether a prophecy is of an event that is good or bad is not at all the point, and who God uses to fulfill his word doesn’t matter, either.

Jesus Christ’s death was prophesied. Were the men who put him to death actually good men who were sincerely doing God’s work? Or was God — knowing their hearts, and what they would do — using their evil works for his own ends? Did that make a difference to the fulfillment — that is, was Jesus any more or less dead, depending on the spiritual state of his killers, or what their motivation was? No, of course not. Jesus died, and the prophecy was fulfilled.

How is the fulfillment of prophecy about Israel any different?
 

TokiEl

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I think the nations will be offered some confirmation they will find it rather hard to dismiss at some point in the future...

Ezekiel 38

17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.
That event is as this prophecy says... an attempt to invade Israel.

It's the next event.

I don't know when... but neither do you.



Food for thought...

Do you seriously think that after God has gathered the Jews back in their land... that He would allow the offence of animal sacrifice ?

If you say yes to this... i might come around and slap you.
 
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Food for thought...

Do you seriously think that after God has gathered the Jews back in their land... that He would allow the offence of animal sacrifice ?

If you say yes to this... i might come around and slap you.
I think you'll get slapped hard by the truth just about .....



... now:

Getting Ready: Temple Institute Practices Burning the Red Heifer

August 7, 2019
Israeli professor involved in test of the Red Heifer ritual calls it an “historical moment” on the road to purity and redemption.

...
Though in contemporary Israeli society the Red Heifer is relegated to the realm of the delusional, there are still enough who are doing everything they can to make all the necessary preparations for the building of the Third Temple, and that includes breeding red heifers and practicing the ceremonial burning of the calf.

The Temple Institute has recently done just that: Experimenting with the meticulous rabbinic rituals surrounding the red heifer. The effort includes burning a dead cow on a kind of a wooden altar. Into the burning fire were also thrown cedar wood, hyssop and scarlet-dyed wool. The experiment was designed to check the amount of ash produced, and whether it would be enough to purify every Israelite living today.
 

TokiEl

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(1) If the Jews were scattered because of disobedience, they could only return because they had changed their ways and were now obeying. But this has not happened. How then could they be said to have returned? Have they really returned? Exactly what was predicted?
You assume.


Here is what the Spirit says...

Ezekiel 36 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.



(2) The Jews have indeed returned to management of Jerusalem, but they have not regained control of the Temple Mount. Because of that, they cannot rebuild the Temple, and restore the ancient rituals of the Jewish religion. Until that happens, they have not really "returned" to Jerusalem. They lack full governmental authority.
The Temple was not on that Mount.

That was a Fortress.

The Temple Mount was a Roman fort.



The punishment of being mingled with the Gentiles, in lands not fully theirs, is referred to as "the times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24). Those times have not ceased: [1] The Jews remain among the Gentiles to this day. [2] The Gentiles continue to tread across the Jewish holy place. [3] The holy place of the Jews to be dedicated to a pagan deity, not to the God of Israel.
You think Jesus is a racist ? Oh no mingeling with gentiles.


Luke 21 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus is saying when Jerusalem is no longer trampled by gentiles but restored to jews... then the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. This happened on june 7 1967. And true Christians understand that the religion of gentiles has been in absolute shambles since that time. It's the great falling away...
 

TokiEl

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Isn't He the one who required that offense in the first place? I ask because that, blood sacrifice, is, to me, one of the most repugnant and seemingly despicable parts of the Temple-era Judaism I most despise and least understand or condone.
Yes before JC that offence was required even though God hated it.
 

TokiEl

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I think you'll get slapped hard by the truth just about .....



... now:


Yea i know they got plans... but will God let them go through with those plans... and so offend the sacrifice of His Son ?

No God will not stand for that.


God is not gathering the ignorant jew back to His land... so they can continue to ignore Him.
 
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Yea i know they got plans... but will God let them go through with those plans... and so offend the sacrifice of His Son ?

No God will not stand for that.


God is not gathering the ignorant jew back to His land... so they can continue to ignore Him.
You're right that this wouldn't make sense if the god of the Jews and the God of Christ are one and the same.
 
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