Regarding Uyghur

Tidal

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Tidal said-
Questions i've been asking in internet forums for a long time without getting a good answer is-
Why has America been propping up Israel with truckloads of money and super-duper weaponry over the past 60 years?
What has Israel ever done for America?
Don't American taxpayers mind their cash going to Israel?
And don't Americans mind America being on the terrorists hit list as "Israel's friend'?
Answers on a postcard please..:)
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Sorry mate, that thread you're trying to shunt me off to is 44 pages long and I don't have the time or inclination to wade through it, I'm going to watch an episode of my boxset of 'Space 1999' DVD's in a minute anyway..:)
Meanwhile can anybody else answer my questions in their own words in just a few sentences?

 






Tidal

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Tidal said- Do I detect a touch of anger there mate?
HOW ABOUT IT NANNY?
"Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered" (Bible: Proverbs 22:24)
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Why would I be your friend?

You've misunderstood mate, Nanny was telling ME to avoid people who don't shape up.. :p
And the Big Man says the same thing-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )
 






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Why isn't China treating Hui Muslims like this?
Xianjiang province is the westernmost part of China and so is the CCP's gateway to Central Asia. As part of the 'Belt and Road Initiative' (BRI), China offers to build powerplants, railways, highways, gas pipelines, seaports, mines and refineries for other countries, many of which were once on the route of the ancient Silk Road. Every project in each country is one part of a bigger initiative for Chinese trade, intended to increase Chinese political and economic influence across Asia and Europe, which could rival American influence. For instance, China has funded a $62 billion railway/highway corridor through Pakistan that has meant it has been able to transport oil and gas from the Middle East more directly. It also has control of a string of seaports in the Indian Ocean that means it can guard shipping routes in that area. See map below:
1601320935582.png

But as China's growth increases, so too does its need for resources, in particular from the energy-rich Xianjiang, which accounts for 40% of China's coal reserves, 20% of its oil and gas, and 20% of its potential for wind energy production. Over the past century, the threat of Uyghur separatism has meant that China has not been able to establish strong control there. Their attempt to suppress the Uyghur influence and to strip away their identity by taking away their children, punishing them for speaking their language, stopping them practising Islam, and indoctrinating them with CCP propaganda, are the ways in which China intends to establish more solid control in Xianjiang. If they allow the Uyghurs to become united (both Islamically and culturally), and to try to establish their own ethnic state, China will no longer have control of important natural resources, and will lose the potential to expand their influence into Central and South Asia. By contrast, the Hui Muslims do not belong exclusively to Xianjiang, but are more scattered across the other northwestern Chinese provinces. The Hui also do not agitate for the establishment of their own state as the Uyghurs do, and so are less of a threat to the CCP. Their language and culture are more closely aligned with that of the Han Chinese majority, they are perceived as less different than the Uyghurs, who have their own distinct culture, language and dress. As a result, they do not experience the level of suppression that the Uyghurs do, though they are certainly not free from harassment: their mosques are often targeted, and they are discouraged from practising Islam. Islam is portrayed by the atheist, communist, totalitarian CCP as an ideological threat: they often paint their suppression of Uyghurs and Muslims as merely being part anti-radicalisation/anti-extremism measures.

This video is helpful:
 






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Tidal said- Do I detect a touch of anger there mate?
HOW ABOUT IT NANNY?
"Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered" (Bible: Proverbs 22:24)
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You've misunderstood mate, Nanny was telling ME to avoid people who don't shape up.. :p
And the Big Man says the same thing-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )
Anger is not the same as being hot tempered.

I'm reasonably pissed off with your POS propaganda and hurtful comments.

Hot tempered is more like tuco in breaking bad or gyp rosetti in boardwalk.

Prophets also expressed anger towards ppl. Even your mangod.

See the fact you can't tell the difference or realise the holes in your argument is why you believe in the silly things you do.
 






Tidal

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..you can't tell the difference or realise the holes in your argument is why you believe in the silly things you do.

Exactly what "silly things" about Christianity don't you like?
Be careful or nanny will be cross with you again..:)
Jesus said:-"Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, I will be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
 






LkMTM

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Exactly what "silly things" about Christianity don't you like?
Be careful or nanny will be cross with you again..:)
Jesus said:-"Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, I will be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
Your say that as though you are Jesus and those words apply to you.
AspiringSoul isn't talking about Christianity. He's talking about YOU.
 






Tidal

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I'm reasonably pissed off with your POS propaganda and hurtful comments.

You must have got me mixed up with somebody else mate because it's not my style to do "hurtful comments".. :p
You on the other hand have called me some very nasty names but I just laugh them off, it's all part of the fun of internet debating..:)
Incidentally what are you, jew, christian,muslim, Amish, or even worse- a Barry Manilow fan?..:)
 






Tidal

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Your say that as though you are Jesus and those words apply to you.
AspiringSoul isn't talking about Christianity. He's talking about YOU.

I simply include Jesus quotes in my sensational posts, and if people can't handle them that's no concern of mine..:p
 






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Exactly what "silly things" about Christianity don't you like?
Be careful or nanny will be cross with you again..:)
Jesus said:-"Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, I will be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
1) let's not ignore the fact you made a proper tit out of yourself..
trying to quote wisdom from the bible, you only exposed your own ignorance and proved you're far removed from the bible.

i was busy before and couldnt directly quote examples to prove my point. It is actually tragic that a man who has been a christian his whole life, is being spoonfed his own scripture by a muslim

this is what you quoted
"Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered" (Bible: Proverbs 22:24)

when i see that, this is what i think of

it goes without saying, that isnt me. I expressed anger towards you for your willfull ignorance and offensive comments..that's perfectly within reason.

10 Drive out a mocker, and conflict goes too;
then quarreling and dishonor will cease.


you were more than just mocking, you were pouring salt on wounds. when the biggest terrorists are the US/christian right funded these pmc's in places like iraq, syria and afghanistan..it's insulting for you to claim muslims are the terrorists. all you know about them is what western media/politicians have told you.

this is omar baghdadi




if you were an honest guy you'd accept you're wrong on 'terrorism' given the facts. you'd research on the christian right and pmc's eg
  • Prince “views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe.” He “intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis.”
  • Blackwater “employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms of Iraqis and other Arabs, such as 'ragheads’ or hajis.’”
  • Blackwater deployed to Iraq individuals who (a) made “statements about wanting to… kill ragheads’ or achieve kills’ or body counts,’” (b) drank excessively, (c) used steroids, and (d) failed to follow safety and other instructions governing the use of lethal weapons. Mental-health professionals who raised concerns about deployment of such individuals were fired.
As for anger


Jonah 4
But it greatly displeased Jonah and he became angry.

Genesis 31:36
Then Jacob became angry and argued with Laban. And he said to Laban, “What is my fault? What is my sin that you pursued me like this?

Exodus 16:20
But they did not listen to Moses, and some left a supply of it until morning, and it bred worms and became foul and rotten; and Moses was angry with them.

Numbers 16:15
Then Moses became very angry and said to the Lord, “Pay no attention to their offering! I have not taken one donkey from them, nor have I harmed any one of them.”


2)
Exactly what "silly things" about Christianity don't you like?

christians*
the way you all claim you have the holy spirit and think God speaks to you inside your head or that you're specially guided.
claim you're saved, even when Jesus said he will reject many of you, proving not everyone is saved.
the way you guys take scripture out of context and literally without any regards to historical context, philosophical beliefs at the time, culture/language etc.
all the pagan practices and beliefs you've picked up from catholicism inc the trinitarian doctrine, even though the bible never stipulated those precise words. if it was the single most important necessary belief meant for you, then Jesus would have made sure people knew it by specifically giving them the doctrine. he didn't.

the way you guys just use the term 'Son' without acknowledging or even knowing that it was just the judaic symbolic term attributed to the Logos, eg 'the only begotten Son' being the Logos/Word. it's like a nickname..
so to accuse islam of 'not believing in the son' just because islam doesnt adopt the nickname, but uses the accurate term 'Word', that's just dumb on a different level.
 






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You must have got me mixed up with somebody else mate because it's not my style to do "hurtful comments".. :p
You on the other hand have called me some very nasty names but I just laugh them off, it's all part of the fun of internet debating..:)
Incidentally what are you, jew, christian,muslim, Amish, or even worse- a Barry Manilow fan?..:)
if christians were getting killed, lied about, with all manner of deceptions, acts etc..andf then i said 'christians derp terroristsez' then i would be a total fking prick...

it isnt like you dont have the evidence already. by this point you shouldnt even be claiming muslims are terrorists.
example in pakistan there is a group called the ttp...they only kill pakistanis/muslims. how is that? they're supposedly based in pak, but only kill pakistanis.

when they were shot down in the school massacre, they were uncircumcised
as in they were indian/hindus posing as terrorists.

recently the stock exchange in karachi was attacked, the guys were supposed to be balochi seperatists. the indian's boasted about their connections to balochi seperatists...they armed them, paid them off etc.
this is how terrorism works. it isnt 'muslims' involved with 'islamic goals' it's more like political alliances, groups being funded by zionists, hindus, americans etc.
that is standard practice of the zionist system which india has allied itself with.

all these groups like al qaeeda, al nusra, isis, they are not part of us, they are part of the zionist system...just agents/fakes, like baghdadi, tim osman etc (gave you examples in the earlier post)

read this, this is israeli media
you know who al nusra are? its al qaeeda's middle east branch...

The prominent American newspaper reported that Nusra Front, the Sunni Muslim al-Qaida offshoot which is currently fighting the Iranian-backed axis of Bashar Assad and Hezbollah, "hasn't bothered Israel since seizing the border area last summer" along the Golan Heights.

i mean ffs man
you have israeli mossad directly admitting they are funding AL QAEEDA and none of you gave a fk.
what will be your excuse when you meet God then? you will be questioned.

the reason all of this is spoonfed to us, is so when we die and are judged, there are no excuses..
you cant say to God "i didnt know, i didnt know they were tricking us" because every bit of proof was given to you. satans tricks were never hidden.
even when fake 'angels' come to people posing as angels of light, they wil give you information which contradicts biblical theology, eg they'll preach reincarnation or tell you to sin, or tell you they are a man/woman etc (the angels of light, are genderless).

the point is, truth and falsehood is made clear to us, so we have no excuses.

you already know 9/11 was an inside job..
danish scientists who investigated found clear evidence of nano thermite in the rubble on the towers.
they were bombed within.
these are not conspiracy theories, they're just facts.

the american news, right after 9/11, said
"we found the passports of the terrorists in the wreckage"
and most you christian lot, you believed it!!!!!!!
so how will you be when you meet God and your questioned on all of this?

you have no right to complain about my attitude towards you when im perfectly justified given the crap you come up with.

if you say something about muslims that is true, i swear i wont have a problem with you.
criticise islam or muslims for legit reasons.

here ill give you a freebie

i think modern islam is largely built upon narratives created by pseudo islamic revivalist sects/movements who were largely uneducated morons...and pan arab nationalism
i believe prior to those movements, muslims were just normal people, not even that religious..
but when religion was shoved down their throat in an increasingly tense world, with zionism and hindu facism..muslims went deeper into those 'narratives'
by narrative i dont just mean core beliefs. i mean the way muslims think and the opinions they derive from that thinking...

for example.
one argument i used to hear on the street from guys was that 'israel wants to destroy THE THIRD HOLIEST SITE IN ISLAM, THE AL AQDA MASJID'
then it hit me
"that mosque didnt exist in the time of prophet Mohammad, yet there was an 'al aqsa' mentioned in the quran..and that al aqsa is the hird holiest site.
answer, al aqsa is the entire temple mount.
the mosque built later is properly called the 'al jami al aqsa' and that mosque is NOT 'the third holiest site in islam'
hence the argument that jews would destroy our third holiest site, is a false narrative.
i actually am very far from collective muslim consensus..hence ive been called a non-muslim by muslims on here

the only thing is, on this forum i dont need to express those views since i dont see material from muslims that forces me to say it
the material i see on here that's fked up is christian.

it wasnt long ago you guys were wanking all day long to the news of 'the real mecca was petra' theme
and then ISRAELI archeologists discovered the earliest mosque in israel....and it's qibla was facing Mecca..

how come not one of the christians woke up and realised "we should no longer continue with this shit"?
instead, they just jump onto the next false narrative.
 






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Right that's it, you've also called me a "stupid pagan" and a "fkin knob", so nanny's patience has run out and she's saying to you GET ON HERE THIS INSTANT!..:)-

i promise you, i swear to you
when you meet Jesus, and he says "i never knew you"
on your way out the door...you'll hear "fking knob" "stupid pagan" from the crowd.
 






Tidal

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i promise you, i swear to you
when you meet Jesus, and he says "i never knew you"
on your way out the door...you'll hear "fking knob" "stupid pagan" from the crowd.

Mate, your earlier posts were much too long and I don't have time to read them all the way through, try to make them shorter and they'll carry more punch..:)-
"The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Bible: Ecc 6:11)

When we all arrive at the pearlies, the doorman will ask us ONE question- "Are you Christian?", and if we say "Yes" we've got a helluva better chance of being let in than those who say "No", to whom he'll say-

"On yer bikes and hit that road"


 






Tidal

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..you shouldnt even be claiming muslims are terrorists..
Yeah, sure, sure..:)

1979
Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. 14 were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days.
1982
Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others.
1995
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed.
2001
Washington DC: Sept 11th: Hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa.

 






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i think modern islam is largely built upon narratives created by pseudo islamic revivalist sects/movements who were largely uneducated morons...and pan arab nationalism
i believe prior to those movements, muslims were just normal people, not even that religious..
but when religion was shoved down their throat in an increasingly tense world, with zionism and hindu facism..muslims went deeper into those 'narratives'
by narrative i dont just mean core beliefs. i mean the way muslims think and the opinions they derive from that thinking...
 






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I respectfully disagree with you. I think the Muslims 200 years ago might have taken their Islam for granted a bit, because it wasn't under threat, they were free to practice it every day without hindrance, and they could stand proudly on the shoulders of the great Islamic achievements. Now, when the caliphate is gone and imperialist world powers have stripped historically Muslim countries of their wealth, heritage and dignity, the Muslims have to try to hold on to Islam even more, because its the only anchor that is stopping them getting washed away in the social diseases of our modern age. Muslims have to fight extra hard nowadays to hold onto their Islam, and to keep our tradition alive. But I agree that reactionism towards anti-Islamic movements isn't the right way to practice/perceive Islam; you've got to see Islam for what it originally came for: to bring dignity to humanity when men were burying their daughters alive and worshipping stones. Allah will give us dignity if we obey him, and he will humiliate us if we try to please men, and give them an inch which will turn into a mile.
Just to add to that, Muhammad Asad put it best in 'The Road to Mecca':

When it ended, the hakīm remarked: 'David was small, but his faith was great...' I could not prevent myself from adding: 'And you are many, but your faith is small.' My host looked at me with astonishment, and, embarrassed by what I had almost involuntarily said, I rapidly began to explain myself. My explanation took the shape of a torrent of questions: 'How has it come about that you Muslims have lost your self-confidence - that self-confidence which once enabled you to spread your faith, in less than a hundred years, from Arabia westward as far as the Atlantic and eastward deep into China - and now surrender yourselves so easily, so weakly, to the thoughts and customs of the West? Why can't you, whose forefathers illumined the world with science and art at a time when Europe lay in deep barbarism and ignorance, summon forth the courage to go back to your own progressive, radiant faith? How is it that Ataturk, that petty masquerader who denies all value to Islam, has become to you Muslims a symbol of "Muslim revival"?'

My host remained speechless. It had started to snow outside. Again I felt that wave of mingled sadness and happiness that I had felt on approaching Deh-Zangi. I sensed the glory that had been and the shame that was enveloping these late sons of a great civilization.

'Tell me - how has it come about that the faith of your Prophet and all its clearness and simplicity has been buried beneath a rubble of sterile speculation and the hair-splitting of your scholastics? How has it happened that your princes and great land-owners revel in wealth and luxury while so many of their Muslim brethren subsist in unspeakable poverty and squalour - although your Prophet taught that No one may call himself a Faithful who eats his fill while his neighbour remains hungry? Can you make me understand why you have brushed woman into the background of your lives - although the women around the Prophet and his Companions took part in so grand a manner in the life of their men? How has it come about that so many of you Muslims are ignorant and so few can even read and write - although your Prophet declared that Striving after knowledge is a most sacred duty for every
Muslim man and woman and that The superiority of the learned man over the mere pious is like the superiority of the moon when it is full over all other stars?'

Still my host stared at me without speaking, and I began to think that my outburst had deeply offended him. The man with the lute, not understanding Persian well enough to follow me, looked on in wonderment at the sight of the stranger who spoke with so much passion to the hakīm.
 






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I respectfully disagree with you. I think the Muslims 200 years ago might have taken their Islam for granted a bit, because it wasn't under threat, they were free to practice it every day without hindrance, and they could stand proudly on the shoulders of the great Islamic achievements. Now, when the caliphate is gone and imperialist world powers have stripped historically Muslim countries of their wealth, heritage and dignity, the Muslims have to try to hold on to Islam even more, because its the only anchor that is stopping them getting washed away in the social diseases of our modern age. Muslims have to fight extra hard nowadays to hold onto their Islam, and to keep our tradition alive. But I agree that reactionism towards anti-Islamic movements isn't the right way to practice/perceive Islam; you've got to see Islam for what it originally came for: to bring dignity to humanity when men were burying their daughters alive and worshipping stones. Allah will give us dignity if we obey him, and he will humiliate us if we try to please men, and give them an inch which will turn into a mile.
there's a particular hadith you ought to be familiar with, i take it as a basic assumption that every educated muslim already knows the hadith and understands the context.

Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman: The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state." (Book #56, Hadith #803)

ill explain how i understand this hadith

-the biggest proof of collective evil which incurs God's Wrath...is the loss of Jerusalem. That has been true for jews and christians.
now it may happen as it was with the first crusade, that christians took it which implies God favoured them, but in truth they were just the medium of God's punishment on muslims at the time.

- During the period where muslims lost Jerusalem, what happened?
in india there was Sheikh Moinuddin Chishti, in Iraq there was Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani.
these 2 are the 2 most famous and most influential sufi figures. There was a revival of islam but it was different. Just as people accuse Moinuddin Chishti of 'innovating islam' the truth is the sufis had a hikmah that was necessary for the time period/place/context.
This is when the next era of islam began through sufism.

So if you read the hadith..
"Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. "

hence sufism gets accused of bidah, right? it totally fits.
in the wider context, the prophet clearly said it would be 'good'. The bidah/little evil in the context was perhaps necessary. Since by that point islam had grown on a massive scale and had to be applicable to many people and cultures.
Hence it led to a new islam in india and amogst the turkic people. people with their own traditions/cultures.

obviously over time, the sufi movements got worse, until you get the obvious thing, obvious signs of shirk, due to a poor understanding of theology.

the biggest problem within the sufi system was that the giants of sufism were SYED, decendants of the prophet. Their decendants inherited titles, which is not in line with islamic tradition, rather than titles going to worthy muslims, the sons inherited titles but lacked the qualities of their fathers. Gradually sufism declined until we saw the worst of the worst, our version of pharisees.

-so what happened as a reaction to the worst of sufism?
Wahabiism/salafism..

He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief.

no doubt this was the wahabi-saudi alliance.
the 'chief' was the ottomon sultan...
but everyone opposed him too.

so
I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."


in india, it was the beginning of the great divide amongst the sunnis hanafis, you got the Brelwi and Deobandi movements.
the guy running the brelwi school was imam raza khan, an apologist and yes man for his syed masters..and he pushed a system of sufism via brelwi-ism that effectively became the most dumbest version of blatant shirk
through his own shit understanding of islam. the guy was a real fanatic with the fatwas and takfir too.

the further salafism has been pushed, the further the brelwis and deobandis have decended.
the difference between brelwi and deobandi is this..
the brelwis believed in a passive, Jeremiah style response to colonialism..
they thought 'why should we fight to rid india of european colonialists, when it is a hindu majority country whilst the colonialists are christian? better to be under christians than hindus'

the deobandi camp responded with 'wow they are british puppets and pro-christian'
(see the stupidity?)
so the deobandis said 'we need to fight jihad against britain'
they did and they lost, got massacred, which the brelwis knew of..
and the problem with that was it gave hindus (who never fking fought, you get this? they were waiting for muslims and sikhs to weaken whilst the british rewarded the hindus).

deobandis got powerful enough and held higher offices in the muslim army (of what was british india at the time). however honest their intentions, their push for war against britian hurt muslims further, but still it made muslims strong enough to be able to fight for their own state later down the line, hence the creation of pakistan.

the other problem, where the brelwis were actually right was that deobandis were def influenced by wahabism and hence it wasnt long before pakistan sank into saudi influence via general zia ul haq and the hudood ordinances.
zia ul haq was that guy who fought in Black september leading the jordanian royal army against the palestinian uprising...because of zia, thousands of palestinians were butchered. his reward was the saudi zionists funded his takeover of pakistan before he turned it into an absolute shithole
and the further deobandi agendas were pushed, the worst the brelwis got when they were sidelined

so the way i see it, the prophet SAW was obv right to warn us against them ALL 'all those sects'.

you had nationalist agendas influencing sects..you had greedy disgusting syeds using fake sufi ideas to elevate their own status..
and the only thing holding muslims together was this collective seige mentality by building antagonism with jews and hindus
and of course jews and hindus have played their part

my take is this is all the handiwork of iblees...simple
all sides are manipulated through fear and hatred. muslims are not innocent at all in the hate game.
muslims have gotten so bad they've even rewrote the Quran via translations/interpretations by wording them in such a way that really pushes our buttons and fits into those collective narratives
ive been observing and reading islamic material from all sides, reading the Quran and hadith, most of my life...ive been through the sectarian phase and seen that it was nothing but fitna and not one group has any connection to God or truth, they are all liars.
every single sect has higher ups who are directly working for iblees.
this is no exaggeration...i saw it and got harmed for it..
it's like this..
its as basic and simple and derpedy fking derp as this

these fools started astral projecting..and without knowledge of metaphysics (as the prophet said, because of IGNORANCE) they thought they were in jannat.
the satanic entities came to them in the forms of glorious saintly figures...and they followed them...and were 'worked on' for a while until they were completely on the other side.
groups were formed, they were given positions of influence in the sects...
and collectively whenever and wherever any good muslim person/people/group sprang up...these people targeted them by following iblees's commands. the only ones left alone who arent part of them directly, are the ones who enable them..
ive seen many imams/sheikhs who know fully what these guys are doing but feign ignorance to save their own neck. i have no respect for those ones either.

lucky for me..i have this on my mind when it comes to those people as a whole

i may diss christians a lot on here lmfao...and its justified
but when it came to evil within islam, it wasnt just the prophet SAW's advice in hadith like the one i shared, it was the Gospel and contexts within that i could relate to our time through...and come to an understanding of what we're truely dealing with.

read the last part of the hadith again and think of why on earth the prophet SAW would speak in such a heavy way. im not over exaggerating in what i say, it's exactly why the prophet would actually insist
"there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)."

"Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."


this is serious stuff bro.
 






Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,267
there's a particular hadith you ought to be familiar with, i take it as a basic assumption that every educated muslim already knows the hadith and understands the context.

Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman: The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state." (Book #56, Hadith #803)

ill explain how i understand this hadith

-the biggest proof of collective evil which incurs God's Wrath...is the loss of Jerusalem. That has been true for jews and christians.
now it may happen as it was with the first crusade, that christians took it which implies God favoured them, but in truth they were just the medium of God's punishment on muslims at the time.

- During the period where muslims lost Jerusalem, what happened?
in india there was Sheikh Moinuddin Chishti, in Iraq there was Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani.
these 2 are the 2 most famous and most influential sufi figures. There was a revival of islam but it was different. Just as people accuse Moinuddin Chishti of 'innovating islam' the truth is the sufis had a hikmah that was necessary for the time period/place/context.
This is when the next era of islam began through sufism.

So if you read the hadith..
"Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. "

hence sufism gets accused of bidah, right? it totally fits.
in the wider context, the prophet clearly said it would be 'good'. The bidah/little evil in the context was perhaps necessary. Since by that point islam had grown on a massive scale and had to be applicable to many people and cultures.
Hence it led to a new islam in india and amogst the turkic people. people with their own traditions/cultures.

obviously over time, the sufi movements got worse, until you get the obvious thing, obvious signs of shirk, due to a poor understanding of theology.

the biggest problem within the sufi system was that the giants of sufism were SYED, decendants of the prophet. Their decendants inherited titles, which is not in line with islamic tradition, rather than titles going to worthy muslims, the sons inherited titles but lacked the qualities of their fathers. Gradually sufism declined until we saw the worst of the worst, our version of pharisees.

-so what happened as a reaction to the worst of sufism?
Wahabiism/salafism..

He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief.

no doubt this was the wahabi-saudi alliance.
the 'chief' was the ottomon sultan...
but everyone opposed him too.

so
I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."


in india, it was the beginning of the great divide amongst the sunnis hanafis, you got the Brelwi and Deobandi movements.
the guy running the brelwi school was imam raza khan, an apologist and yes man for his syed masters..and he pushed a system of sufism via brelwi-ism that effectively became the most dumbest version of blatant shirk
through his own shit understanding of islam. the guy was a real fanatic with the fatwas and takfir too.

the further salafism has been pushed, the further the brelwis and deobandis have decended.
the difference between brelwi and deobandi is this..
the brelwis believed in a passive, Jeremiah style response to colonialism..
they thought 'why should we fight to rid india of european colonialists, when it is a hindu majority country whilst the colonialists are christian? better to be under christians than hindus'

the deobandi camp responded with 'wow they are british puppets and pro-christian'
(see the stupidity?)
so the deobandis said 'we need to fight jihad against britain'
they did and they lost, got massacred, which the brelwis knew of..
and the problem with that was it gave hindus (who never fking fought, you get this? they were waiting for muslims and sikhs to weaken whilst the british rewarded the hindus).

deobandis got powerful enough and held higher offices in the muslim army (of what was british india at the time). however honest their intentions, their push for war against britian hurt muslims further, but still it made muslims strong enough to be able to fight for their own state later down the line, hence the creation of pakistan.

the other problem, where the brelwis were actually right was that deobandis were def influenced by wahabism and hence it wasnt long before pakistan sank into saudi influence via general zia ul haq and the hudood ordinances.
zia ul haq was that guy who fought in Black september leading the jordanian royal army against the palestinian uprising...because of zia, thousands of palestinians were butchered. his reward was the saudi zionists funded his takeover of pakistan before he turned it into an absolute shithole
and the further deobandi agendas were pushed, the worst the brelwis got when they were sidelined

so the way i see it, the prophet SAW was obv right to warn us against them ALL 'all those sects'.

you had nationalist agendas influencing sects..you had greedy disgusting syeds using fake sufi ideas to elevate their own status..
and the only thing holding muslims together was this collective seige mentality by building antagonism with jews and hindus
and of course jews and hindus have played their part

my take is this is all the handiwork of iblees...simple
all sides are manipulated through fear and hatred. muslims are not innocent at all in the hate game.
muslims have gotten so bad they've even rewrote the Quran via translations/interpretations by wording them in such a way that really pushes our buttons and fits into those collective narratives
ive been observing and reading islamic material from all sides, reading the Quran and hadith, most of my life...ive been through the sectarian phase and seen that it was nothing but fitna and not one group has any connection to God or truth, they are all liars.
every single sect has higher ups who are directly working for iblees.
this is no exaggeration...i saw it and got harmed for it..
it's like this..
its as basic and simple and derpedy fking derp as this

these fools started astral projecting..and without knowledge of metaphysics (as the prophet said, because of IGNORANCE) they thought they were in jannat.
the satanic entities came to them in the forms of glorious saintly figures...and they followed them...and were 'worked on' for a while until they were completely on the other side.
groups were formed, they were given positions of influence in the sects...
and collectively whenever and wherever any good muslim person/people/group sprang up...these people targeted them by following iblees's commands. the only ones left alone who arent part of them directly, are the ones who enable them..
ive seen many imams/sheikhs who know fully what these guys are doing but feign ignorance to save their own neck. i have no respect for those ones either.

lucky for me..i have this on my mind when it comes to those people as a whole

i may diss christians a lot on here lmfao...and its justified
but when it came to evil within islam, it wasnt just the prophet SAW's advice in hadith like the one i shared, it was the Gospel and contexts within that i could relate to our time through...and come to an understanding of what we're truely dealing with.

read the last part of the hadith again and think of why on earth the prophet SAW would speak in such a heavy way. im not over exaggerating in what i say, it's exactly why the prophet would actually insist
"there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)."

"Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."


this is serious stuff bro.
Thanks for your reply.
 






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