Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service

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An exclusively Talmud-based organization is hailed as Correct, concerning Israel and Palestine? And the whole middle east? Interesting stuff, for sure. But then both sides are played in the media, because when it comes to politics, both sides have an angle. But using the Talmud-- a terrible source imo-- is not the most convincing angle, in this case, if you're attempting a religious defense. Js.
I'll be the first to admit I have only an elementary understanding of Judaism and the opposing views within their sects (though that will change in the next months I promise). I admit too that anti-zionists quote Rabbi Weiss and Karta often, but they are only one voice within a wide range of interpretations.

I thought it was common knowledge the Talmud and oral tradition take precedence over Torah- so their religious doctrines are very relevant to the discussion. Schlomo explains that before the 19th century the OT was not identified with strongly in the life of Jews spread worldwide. The first historians to chronicle Judaism helped create the "collective memory" of a continuity from ancient times that was not present before. Please read this quote carefully about the way in which the traditional Jewish concept of spiritual exile was turned on its head in the Zionist state:

"Dinur gave the secularization of the Jewish exile its strongest and clearest historical expression. It was essentially revolutionary, and altered not only the Jewish time-structure of the exile but also the underlying significance of this religious time. The historian felt its national power vis-a-vis the declining tradition, and although he repeatedly resorted to it, he also turned it inside out. As a historian and public intellectual, he replaced thousands of rabbis, those "organic" intellectuals of the Jewish past, who defined Judaism itself through the concept of exile. He therefore did not scruple to issue a new halakhic decision: "The three vows of Rabbi Yossi ben Hanina were vows to preserve the exile. They were revoked by the end of the exile, and the vow not 'to rise up over the wall' is likewise null and void. This generation's only answer must be indeed 'to rise up over the wall.'"

I hope people can grasp the significance of secularist figures hijacking 2000 years of religious tradition. There won't be peace and true sanctification for Israel until there is reconciliation. The teaching of Jesus is extremely fitting in this instance:

"Therefore if you bring your gift to the alter, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Leave your gift there before the alter, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
 





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I always have a good laugh when the same people who like to tell us that Israel is a mostly secular country then try to deny their right to exist based on the ravings of some fringe Talmudic group.

Israel doesn’t need any religious authorization to exist.
 





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I'll be the first to admit I have only an elementary understanding of Judaism and the opposing views within their sects (though that will change in the next months I promise). I admit too that anti-zionists quote Rabbi Weiss and Karta often, but they are only one voice within a wide range of interpretations.

I thought it was common knowledge the Talmud and oral tradition take precedence over Torah- so their religious doctrines are very relevant to the discussion. Schlomo explains that before the 19th century the OT was not identified with strongly in the life of Jews spread worldwide. The first historians to chronicle Judaism helped create the "collective memory" of a continuity from ancient times that was not present before. Please read this quote carefully about the way in which the traditional Jewish concept of spiritual exile was turned on its head in the Zionist state:

"Dinur gave the secularization of the Jewish exile its strongest and clearest historical expression. It was essentially revolutionary, and altered not only the Jewish time-structure of the exile but also the underlying significance of this religious time. The historian felt its national power vis-a-vis the declining tradition, and although he repeatedly resorted to it, he also turned it inside out. As a historian and public intellectual, he replaced thousands of rabbis, those "organic" intellectuals of the Jewish past, who defined Judaism itself through the concept of exile. He therefore did not scruple to issue a new halakhic decision: "The three vows of Rabbi Yossi ben Hanina were vows to preserve the exile. They were revoked by the end of the exile, and the vow not 'to rise up over the wall' is likewise null and void. This generation's only answer must be indeed 'to rise up over the wall.'"

I hope people can grasp the significance of secularist figures hijacking 2000 years of religious tradition. There won't be peace and true sanctification for Israel until there is reconciliation. The teaching of Jesus is extremely fitting in this instance:

"Therefore if you bring your gift to the alter, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Leave your gift there before the alter, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
I thought it was common knowledge the Talmud and oral tradition take precedence over Torah-
According to whom? Is exile a good, or even an authentic tradition? Exile or defeat is a consequence (at least, according to the OT) of following other gods or leadership God did not endorse-- and He lifted His hand from them.

I'm not familiar with 'Schlomo' but typically, it is the Orthodox / Hasidic (Haredi) Jews who believe the Talmud is holy (it isn't).
ORTHODOX (HAREDI)
Different sects of Judaism have different views on the Talmud. The Orthodox sect holds that the Oral Law or Talmud is just as inspired as the Bible, but Conservative and Reform Jewish sects do not.
Reform and Conservative sects believe they can interpret the Talmud as written by rabbis but are not necessarily required to follow it. Karaite Jews do not follow the Talmud or rabbinic teachings at all but only the Hebrew Bible. LINK

The Orthodox are a minority, and regard for the Talmud as the final authority is actually a minority opinion. The Arabs are typically very quick to demonize the Talmud-- unless, of course, as in this case, it serves their own purposes.
 





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I thought it was common knowledge the Talmud and oral tradition take precedence over Torah-

According to whom? Is exile a good, or even an authentic tradition? Exile or defeat is a consequence (at least, according to the OT) of following other gods or leadership God did not endorse-- and He lifted His hand from them.

I'm not familiar with 'Schlomo' but typically, it is the Orthodox / Hasidic (Haredi) Jews who believe the Talmud is holy (it isn't).

ORTHODOX (HAREDI)

Different sects of Judaism have different views on the Talmud. The Orthodox sect holds that the Oral Law or Talmud is just as inspired as the Bible, but Conservative and Reform Jewish sects do not.


Reform and Conservative sects believe they can interpret the Talmud as written by rabbis but are not necessarily required to follow it. Karaite Jews do not follow the Talmud or rabbinic teachings at all but only the Hebrew Bible. LINK

The Orthodox are a minority, and regard for the Talmud as the final authority is actually a minority opinion. The Arabs are typically very quick to demonize the Talmud-- unless, of course, as in this case, it serves their own purposes.
I'm not sure what Arabs have to do with the Talmud but anyways, Orthodox is still the dominant religious order within Judaism:

"The strictly observant and theologically aware Orthodox are a definite minority among all Jews, but there are also numerous semi- and non-practicing persons who are officially affiliated or personally identifying with the movement. In total, Orthodox Judaism is the largest Jewish religious group, estimated to have over 2 million practicing adherents and at least an equal number of nominal members or self-identifying supporters."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Judaism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Judaism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Judaism

What's striking about the religion is 1)how fractured their many sects are and 2)how totally modern the 3 main divisions are. Conservative and Reform denominations didn't even exist before the 19th century. It's hard to know what Judaism is when they don't know themselves, and their core beliefs so newly created. Even Orthodox Judaism underwent sweeping changes in the 19th century:

"While adhering to traditional beliefs, the movement is a modern phenomenon. It arose as a result of the breakdown of the autonomous Jewish community since the 18th century, and was much shaped by a conscious struggle against the pressures of secularization and rival alternatives."

To stay on the topic of the 3rd temple, and information related to the religious/spiritual significance to VC members I think these facts are important:

"Orthodox scholars and rabbinic authorities generally believe that rebuilding should occur in the era of the Jewish messiah at the hand of divine providence, although a minority position, following the opinion of Maimonides, holds that Jews should endeavour to rebuild the temple themselves, whenever possible."

"The Chief Rabbis of Israel, Isser Yehuda Unterman and Yitzhak Nissim, together with other leading rabbis, asserted that "For generations we have warned against and refrained from entering any part of the Temple Mount."

"Rabbinical consensus in the Religious Zionist stream of Orthodox Judaism continues to hold that it is forbidden for Jews to enter any part of the Temple Mount and in January 2005 a declaration was signed confirming the 1967 decision."

"Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism do not believe in the rebuilding of a central Temple or a restoration of Temple sacrifices or worship. They regard the Temple and sacrificial era as a period of a more primitive form of ritual from which Judaism has evolved and should not return. They also believe a special role for Kohanim and Levites represents a caste system incompatible with modern principles of egalitarianism, and do not preserve these roles. Furthermore, there is a Reform view that the shul or synagogue is a modern Temple; hence, "Temple" appears in numerous congregation names in Reform Judaism. Indeed, the re-designation of the synagogue as "temple" was one of the hallmarks of early Reform in 19th-century Germany, when Berlin was declared the new Jerusalem, and Reform Jewry sought to demonstrate their staunch German nationalism. The Anti-Zionism that characterized Reform Judaism throughout much of its history subsided somewhat with the Holocaust in Europe and the later successes of the modern state of Israel. The belief in the return of the Jews to the Temple in Jerusalem is not part of mainstream Reform Judaism."

"Although in mainstream Orthodox Judaism the rebuilding of the Temple is generally left to the coming of the Jewish Messiah and to Divine Providence, a number of organizations, generally representing a small minority of Orthodox Jews, have been formed with the objective of realizing the immediate construction of a Third Temple in present times."

"Today the potential of spiritual tourism would support the growth goals of the Mayor of Jerusalem for 10 million tourists annually. This would provide a significant boost to the economy and would benefit people locally and regionally, many of whom live in poverty. Since the rebuilding of the Temple can come only through a process of peace, it must be preceded by numerous efforts, including the financial and project infrastructures to support such a large increase in tourism, local and regional co-operation agreements to enable its construction and the success of modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin, the authority which must be empowered for such an event to occur."

Ahha, this makes sense why the Israeli military is so concerned about world opinion, hiding the realities of life in Occupied Palestine from tourists or in discussions online, etc. Also the Sanhedrin plays a central role if the temple was to be built.

From a quick 1 hour search a few things are obvious. The Jewish religion/ethnic group(?) is totally divided on the 3rd temple. The leaders of the movement are extremists and a minority of the population, religious or secular. The hilarious thing is that the most vocal advocates of a temple are poorly studied right-wing US Evangelical Christians. They want a Jewish temple to be built because it will be ruled by the Anti-Christ in the Book of Revelation(?) which will then usher in the return of Jesus.

As is said, truth is stranger than fiction. You couldn't make this stuff up.
 





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Here's a map that shows the boundaries of Israel over present day nations.



The modern state of Israel obviously doesn't encompass all of that, and I don't expect it to until the Lord returns. The thing that a lot of anti-Zionists don't understand is that no one who reads the Bible expects Israel to have possession of those lands under the present circumstances of the world we live in now. Israel will come into her full inheritance only in the perfect kingdom of Jesus Christ.
Thank you for providing the navigable map. It helps to see instead of read it. This, your emboldened statement, is arguable, because there are plenty of zealous non-Christian Zionists, and I read them often, who don't consider the New Testament as scripture, so they have different messianic goals and expectations in the region. But your post was civil and was posted with good intention, so let's not argue. Instead, let us have a dry run at beating our swords into plowshares and try to grow a garden instead of forever engaging in sword fights on the subject.
Thunderian said:
Here's a question I'd like an honest answer to. Based on the verses I've posted, do you believe that Abraham's physical descendants will one day inherit all the land God promised them?
At the moment, and because I am not much of a believer in any religion, though I am closest to the Christianity of my youth, I vacillate between thinking the prophecy was already fulfilled, as the above map indicates, so I don't see why it should have to be re-fulfilled, and it also leads me into a puzzlement of how and why it is that, if the land were promised to the "physical offspring of Abraham," where are the children, say, of Abraham and Keturah? Are they going to be eventually identified, returned and allowed citizenship, with full voting rights in anything approximating the current, secular State of Israel? I am sorry to waffle, but I cannot directly answer your question because I lack adequate information. Things might become clearer if and as our conversation progresses.
 





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I vacillate between thinking the prophecy was already fulfilled, as the above map indicates, so I don't see why it should have to be re-fulfilled, and it also leads me into a puzzlement of how and why it is that, if the land were promised to the "physical offspring of Abraham," where are the children, say, of Abraham and Keturah? Are they going to be eventually identified, returned and allowed citizenship, with full voting rights in anything approximating the current, secular State of Israel?
Israel has never held all of the land indicated in the map I posted, and Amos 9:15, among other passages, promises that when they do finally possess the land God gives them, they will not be removed from it. The full and permanent possession of the land by Israel is incumbent on the entire nation being faithful to God, and that's certainly not the case now, is it? Again, I would point out that the modern nation of Israel does not need to rely on any scriptural promises to bolster their possession of the land they hold now. They bought it, won it, and reclaimed it from the desert, fair and square.

As for Abraham's other offspring, the Bible is clear that promises to Abraham's offspring regarding the land were for his descendants through Isaac and Jacob, and God confirmed the covenant with each of them. Abraham's other children were not included in the covenant, and have no claim to the land, or as a part of Israel.
 





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Israel has never held all of the land indicated in the map I posted ...
Oh, sorry. I thought that might be a map of the old Davidic Kingdom.
and Amos 9:15, among other passages, promises that when they do finally possess the land God gives them, they will not be removed from it.
I see.
The full and permanent possession of the land by Israel is incumbent on the entire nation being faithful to God, and that's certainly not the case now, is it?
Is the question rhetorical? I know of no nation that is. Is it written, or thought, that when Israel reconquers the land, they will, once again, decimate seven nations before them? If so, will that be done with military might?
As for Abraham's other offspring, the Bible is clear that promises to Abraham's offspring regarding the land were for his descendants through Isaac and Jacob ...
Could you provide the scriptural verses where the land-rights were narrowed down to Isaac and Jacob? I only read the ones you posted in which Abraham's children, generally, were mentioned.
 





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Oh, sorry. I thought that might be a map of the old Davidic Kingdom.
Those are the boundaries set in scripture, by God, but Israel has never been in full possession of all the land promised them.

Is the question rhetorical? I know of no nation that is. Is it written, or thought, that when Israel reconquers the land, they will, once again, decimate seven nations before them? If so, will that be done with military might?
According to the timeline set out in scripture, Israel will be given complete possession of the land when they, as a nation, accept God. When "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced", as Zechariah said. Only then will they be eligible to inherit, and the land will be given to them by God's might, not their own. There will be no wars of conquest on Israel's part. Jesus Christ will be ruling the world, and he will decide who goes where.

Could you provide the scriptural verses where the land-rights were narrowed down to Isaac and Jacob? I only read the ones you posted in which Abraham's children, generally, were mentioned.
Confirmed through Isaac:

And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

Confirmed through Jacob:

And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
 





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The thing that a lot of anti-Zionists don't understand is that no one who reads the Bible expects Israel to have possession of those lands under the present circumstances of the world we live in now. Israel will come into her full inheritance only in the perfect kingdom of Jesus Christ.
So you think that these guys are just reading their bibles wrong? http://www.christiansfortemple.org/temple-mount/israel-s-restoration-the-key-to-redemption.html
I'd certainly never heard of their assertions before, that:
The simple fact is that without the Temple and Israel’s restored worship of God, they are not the fully restored nation God called or intended them to be. The restoration and rebuilding of a 3rd Temple then is an essential perquisite for this and many prophecies that are as yet unfulfilled pertaining to Israel and more importantly - the return of the Messiah.

In your fevered mind, which of her neighbours do you imagine that Israel is plotting and scheming to incapacitate? Jordan and Egypt, both of which have made peace with Israel and benefited from doing so? Or do you mean Syria and Lebanon, both of which have done more to destroy themselves than Israel ever could?
No, my mind isn't seared. I asked the question because i was perfectly capable of backing up with facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
*****
Clean Break to Dirty Wars
Shattering the Middle East for Israel's Northern Front

"To understand today’s crises in Iraq, Syria, and Iran, one must grasp their shared Lebanese connection. This assertion may seem odd. After all, what’s the big deal about Lebanon? That little country hasn’t had top headlines since Israel deigned to bomb and invade it in 2006. Yet, to a large extent, the roots of the bloody tangle now enmeshing the Middle East lie in Lebanon: or to be more precise, in the Lebanon policy of Israel."
******
Under the subheading, Moving to a Traditional Balance of Power Strategy:

12. “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria.”[itallics mine]
13. “This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.”
14. “Damascus fears that a “natural axis” with Israel on one side, central Iraq and Turkey on the other,and Jordan, in the center would squeeze and detach Syria from the Saudi Peninsula. For Syria, it would be a prelude to redrawing the map of the Middle East….
15. Iraq’s future could affect the strategic balance in the Middle East profoundly.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2004/02/14/clean-break-with-the-road-map/
*****
"Nasrallah said he believed that President Bush’s goal was “the drawing of a new map for the region. They want the partition of Iraq. Iraq is not on the edge of a civil war—there is a civil war. There is ethnic and sectarian cleansing. The daily killing and displacement which is taking place in Iraq aims at achieving three Iraqi parts, which will be sectarian and ethnically pure as a prelude to the partition of Iraq. Within one or two years at the most, there will be total Sunni areas, total Shiite areas, and total Kurdish areas. Even in Baghdad, there is a fear that it might be divided into two areas, one Sunni and one Shiite.” He went on, “I can say that President Bush is lying when he says he does not want Iraq to be partitioned. All the facts occurring now on the ground make you swear he is dragging Iraq to partition. And a day will come when he will say, ‘I cannot do anything, since the Iraqis want the partition of their country and I honor the wishes of the people of Iraq.’ ” Nasrallah said he believed that America also wanted to bring about the partition of Lebanon and of Syria. In Syria, he said, the result would be to push the country “into chaos and internal battles like in Iraq.” In Lebanon, “There will be a Sunni state, an Alawi state, a Christian state, and a Druze state.” But, he said, “I do not know if there will be a Shiite state.” Nasrallah told me that he suspected that one aim of the Israeli bombing of Lebanon last summer was “the destruction of Shiite areas and the displacement of Shiites from Lebanon. The idea was to have the Shiites of Lebanon and Syria flee to southern Iraq,” which is dominated by Shiites. “I am not sure, but I smell this,” he told me. Partition would leave Israel surrounded by “small tranquil states,” he said. “I can assure you that the Saudi kingdom will also be divided, and the issue will reach to North African states. There will be small ethnic and confessional states,” he said. “In other words, Israel will be the most important and the strongest state in a region that has been partitioned into ethnic and confessional states that are in agreement with each other. This is the new Middle East.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection

While Nasrallah, as head of Hezbollah, can be quickly dismissed, his beliefs and the contents of the Clean Break report line up perfectly.

There are no laws against criticism of Israel. If there were, you'd be in jail, wouldn't you?
Almost there!
In what conceivable sense is it of benefit to Americans to turn them into felons for the crime of engaging in political activism in protest of a foreign nation’s government?
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19...-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/
 





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Confirmed through Isaac:


And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.


And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:


Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

Confirmed through Jacob:


And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;



And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.



And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Thank you. I knew, and remembered, that the promise of the Messiah was through Isaac and Jacob, but wasn't sure about the land-rights. Those were informative, relevant quotes.
 





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So you think that these guys are just reading their bibles wrong?
Yes. They are conflating the third temple, which will be built by Israel at some point between now and the end of this age, and the millennial temple, which is described in Ezekiel and is where Jesus Christ will rule from.

No, my mind isn't seared. I asked the question because i was perfectly capable of backing up with facts.
If you need to bolster your beliefs about Israel with links from Counterpunch, and quotes like this:

“I am not sure, but I smell this,”

... then you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy any of it or bother responding. Most of the accusations made against Israel are the result of overactive imaginations. None of them bear up under real scrutiny.

Almost there!
In what conceivable sense is it of benefit to Americans to turn them into felons for the crime of engaging in political activism in protest of a foreign nation’s government?
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19...-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/


You started out talking about criminalizing criticism of Israel -- which is not illegal and never will be -- and now you've pivoted to say that BDS is a legitimate form of that. You couldn't be more wrong. BDS's goal is the eradication of a Jewish state in the Middle East, which sounds suspiciously like ethnic cleansing to me, and is well outside the boundaries of legitimate criticism. On top of that, nearly all of the efforts and organizations connected to BDS can be traced back to terrorist groups. So if this is what you mean by "criticism" -- that is, terrorist groups calling for genocide -- don't be surprised that it's considered to be criminal.

But please don't pretend that your "criticism" will be made illegal any time soon.
 





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I always have a good laugh when the same people who like to tell us that Israel is a mostly secular country then try to deny their right to exist based on the ravings of some fringe Talmudic group.

Israel doesn’t need any religious authorization to exist.
I see that's the newest social media taking point from the Israeli Intelligence ACT. ILL campaign (which you've said twice now)...the whole "right to exist" bit. Big strawman. Questioning their right to exist is something I've never heard from any website or article, video or anyone challenging Israel and the US empire's aggression in the region. The troll armies know this, putting out dramatic comments as bait. Their PR teams are getting desperate it seems. Hamas even accepts the United Nations designation, just like we all do. When Israel returns to the boundaries of the 1948 treaty this war will end.

https://twitter.com/antibdsapp?lang=en
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566
 





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Yes. They are conflating the third temple, which will be built by Israel at some point between now and the end of this age, and the millennial temple, which is described in Ezekiel and is where Jesus Christ will rule from.



If you need to bolster your beliefs about Israel with links from Counterpunch, and quotes like this:

“I am not sure, but I smell this,”

... then you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy any of it or bother responding. Most of the accusations made against Israel are the result of overactive imaginations. None of them bear up under real scrutiny.


You started out talking about criminalizing criticism of Israel -- which is not illegal and never will be -- and now you've pivoted to say that BDS is a legitimate form of that. You couldn't be more wrong. BDS's goal is the eradication of a Jewish state in the Middle East, which sounds suspiciously like ethnic cleansing to me, and is well outside the boundaries of legitimate criticism. On top of that, nearly all of the efforts and organizations connected to BDS can be traced back to terrorist groups. So if this is what you mean by "criticism" -- that is, terrorist groups calling for genocide -- don't be surprised that it's considered to be criminal.

But please don't pretend that your "criticism" will be made illegal any time soon.
like I said, gettin' desperate. It's sad you can't understand the answers to your own questions. You say no one who reads the bible thinks a 3rd temple is an important event, (which we all know is untrue), you're shown the evidence from just one group of Christian Zionists, and your reply is a critique of their theology?

I get you place such high value in your own prophetical interpretations but you really should check the 3rd link about the end game of the Clean Break that is currently being played out. Then take a look at the most read articles at J.Post today. Gee I wonder what neighbor Israel is plotting to incapacitate :

"Baghdad is a pit stop on the road to Damascus, and Sanaa is a pit stop on the road to Tehran. But, according to the Clean Breakers, Damascus and Tehran are themselves merely pit stops on the road to Beirut."

None of the accusations against Israel bear up against scrutiny? You're losing your mind. Yeah the New Yorker article from 2007, just another detailed description of a US/Israeli military operation coming to fruition 13 years later that people ignore. Based on your attitude I don't think you care about the truth, or innocent lives. Can't be bothered to have a mature discussion about historical facts.

I think by refusing to read alternative media you remain uninformed about legislation in multiple countries to criminalize BDS and the questioning of US/Israel policy. Did you bother to read your link to JVL assemblage of random quotes from "BDS supporters"? Out of 40 quotes 12 were from one person... only a few opinions were to eradicate Israel, which is an extremely rare viewpoint. I could show you quote by quote the nuanced meaning of ending the Apartheid state; that if there was a one-state solution Arabs would be the majority, which they won't allow.

I'm still waiting for a reply to why God fearing Christians are supposed to care about a temple that Jews themselves don't support.
 





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Did you bother to read your link to JVL assemblage of random quotes from "BDS supporters"? Out of 40 quotes 12 were from one person... only a few opinions were to eradicate Israel, which is an extremely rare viewpoint.
Yes, and that one person is the founder of BDS.

Do you have reading comprehension issues?
 





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The modern state of Israel obviously doesn't encompass all of that, and I don't expect it to until the Lord returns. The thing that a lot of anti-Zionists don't understand is that no one who reads the Bible expects Israel to have possession of those lands under the present circumstances of the world we live in now. Israel will come into her full inheritance only in the perfect kingdom of Jesus Christ.
Sorry that was a misunderstanding. I usually skip over personal prophesies and hadn't read your idea about a much larger territory. The point @Karlysymon made still stands, there are loads and loads of different theories from Christians related to Israel and the 3rd temple.

Yes, and that one person is the founder of BDS.
There is no "founder" lol. I'm telling you man, the mainstream news media will disrupt your intelligence. I'll discuss anything you want based on (at least somewhat) objective information.

Goals of the campaign
"The BDS campaign urges various forms of nonviolent punitive measures against Israel until it complies with the precepts of international law.These measures should bring about:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS campaign is organised and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee. The committee cites a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoes the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa; the BDS campaign calls for "various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law".

This is all for another thread. The reality is being exposed at every turn. Personally I see an interest in world history (and resistance to talking about it haha) gaining momentum. Staying on topic I'll be reviewing who are the driving voices behind the 3rd Temple, and why again Jared Kushner is viewed by some as the Messiah.
 





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Sorry that was a misunderstanding. I usually skip over personal prophesies and hadn't read your idea about a much larger territory. The point @Karlysymon made still stands, there are loads and loads of different theories from Christians related to Israel and the 3rd temple.



There is no "founder" lol. I'm telling you man, the mainstream news media will disrupt your intelligence. I'll discuss anything you want based on (at least somewhat) objective information.

Goals of the campaign
"The BDS campaign urges various forms of nonviolent punitive measures against Israel until it complies with the precepts of international law.These measures should bring about:

Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall;
Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

The BDS campaign is organised and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee. The committee cites a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoes the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa; the BDS campaign calls for "various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law".

This is all for another thread. The reality is being exposed at every turn. Personally I see an interest in world history (and resistance to talking about it haha) gaining momentum. Staying on topic I'll be reviewing who are the driving voices behind the 3rd Temple, and why again Jared Kushner is viewed by some as the Messiah.
wise up
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/16/bds-movement-omar-barghouti-denied-entry
 





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CO-Founder

"In April 2004, the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) was founded. One of the founders was Omar Barghouti.

There is disagreement over exactly when and how the BDS movement began. According to the BDS movement's website, on 9 July 2005, the first anniversary of the advisory opinion by the International Court of Justice in which the West Bank barrier was declared a violation of international law, a broad spectrum of over 170 Palestinian non-governmental organizations initiated a campaign for a boycott, divestment and international sanctions against Israel until it complied with international law and universal principles of human rights...

...At the first Palestinian BDS conference, held in Ramallah in November 2007, the BDS National Committee was established as the Palestinian coordinating body for the BDS campaign worldwide. The movement's main example and source of inspiration is the international boycott of South Africa by anti-apartheid activists."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions