Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service

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If Judaism was an ethnicity and not a religion that many people converted to at one point, they would all have similar features like how Chinese people are visually identifiable as Chinese by looking at them.

Look at various ethnic groups and compare it with this process people claim is restoring people together as one ethnic group and you can visually see that this is a blatant lie.

Take Africa for instance. You can’t say you’re black and have people take you seriously if you don’t look black. Consider what happens to these recognizable traits when a black person has a baby with someone from Ireland. Guess what, they no longer to look like they came from Africa anymore. They may have some traits that can be identified as descending from a African origin, but they don’t look like they came from Africa anymore.

Why isn’t there a common genetic look like the Chinese and Africans have if the Jews are an ethnic group, because they are not an ethnic group. They are a religion that many people from different nations converted to at one point. Not rocket science. Don’t need a reference check to verify what everyone is capable of seeing with their own two eyes.

So many delusions swirling around the universe right now.

Really there is nothing wrong with this though, but there is so much propaganda swirling around about Israel, the average Zionist is more than likely intimidated to embrace the reality that converts should return to Israel too according to their interpretation of prophecy that they share in support of Israel.

If the Jews are supposed to return to Israel, this would include converts. It wouldn’t matter if this is actually an accurate way of interpreting prophecy. It only matters if you are a Christian because the only reason a Christian could be duped to believe this is if you paint it with the ethnicity brush because clearly god would not show favor to Jewish converts after Christ has already come and died on the cross for them, but that’s not really how it works if you also really believe that the prophecy is saying the Jews should return. This would include converts according to the Old Testament, but then that would create more competition with the argument that Jesus is the messiah.

So everyone who supports Zionism is also basically supporting the removal of equality that scripture teaches between two believers in the lord whether they are two Jewish believers or two Christians believers because they are avoiding this discussion. There is no distinguishing between ethnic identity and converts as a Jew or a Christian in the old or the New Testament.

This reality reiterates the primary issue with modern day Zionism, which is the suggestion that there is some inherent difference between someone who is a Jew and someone who is not and the Bible does not ever say this. This was never the point in calling Abraham and anyone can become a Jew according to the Old Testament. They would just have to accept the god of Abraham and reject other gods. There is also the whole circumcision thing. It isn’t the easiest process, but it is not something that the Old Testament rejects pursuing either even if the idea seems to make people incredibly uncomfortable.

Just one of the many reasons I think god has to say to not be afraid in the Bible. People are fueled and filled with fear they deny and avoid and label as something else. There is nothing to be afraid of in admitting these people are converts, but I do think it becomes a threatening idea to a Christian in particular especially when deep down they are still struggling with their decision to be a Christian. Did they make the right decision if Jewish converts are returning according to prophecy?

It also becomes challenging to people who are trying to control the way people see Christianity because it creates competition for them in the numbers game. If converts can return according to prophecy, it is a strong possibility that more people are going to start wanting to convert to Judaism than Christianity and you can already see that happening in some respects. Judaism has become markedly more popular in the west with the creation of Israel. More people are converting to Judaism than they have in a long time and that number would probably increase if they were in included in the plans to return, which they are not excluded from according to the Old Testament.
there are 3 primary types Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Jews/arabs, europeans, iranians, north indians etc are Caucasoid, Abraham was Caucasoid. American Indians were Mongoloid, they probably got to the America's crossing over from Siberia.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...cestor-today-s-native-americans-found-siberia
the Aboroginies of Australia are a mix of Negroid and Mongoloid. You have the dravidians of india who are negroid.

Jews (or more accurately Israelites) are an ethnic group the same way Celtics or Saxons or Slavs are ethnic groups. Obv along the way other people converted to judaism and mixed with them..but the end product is that they still have jewish blood in them. It's like descendants of Mohammad through his daughter...if one marries an outsider and has a kid, that kid is still regarded as a descendant..if that kid grows up to have a kid with another outsider, genetically it's still part of the race despite only having a fraction of his blood. Outsiders converting to judaism would not be considered jewish by jews..unless they married jews and their children continued the line. Ashkenazi jews are related to Palestians..and many people say ashkenazi's are khazar's.
 





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If catholic and orthodox people aren’t Christian than there was a whole thousand years or so where like no one was saved. I believe in Jesus but I find it difficult to swallow how difficult I have been seeing people imply it is to be saved.
Yeah, Orthodox and Catholic-- very different. They are not separate denominations.

Who said it was it was difficult to get saved, though? You didn't quote anyone, and I don't see a word about it on this page... or the previous one-- but I dont see the relevance here, apart from the drama.

It is also very presumptuous-- not everyone is a political 'Zionist.' The issue is greater than, and exists outside of current politics.

In addition to this, these orthodox and catholic Christians in the area are in many cases Jewish converts to Christianity before there was a protestant movement to bless the world with the only population of real Christians that have ever existed since the apostles apparently.

A lot of Muslims in this area are also Jewish converts in many cases because remember the story goes that Muhammad came to this area, and the people didn’t have to leave the area when the Muslims came. Shlomo sand has said in his book the invention of the Jewish people that the Arabs didn’t migrate, the population increased because Jews converted to Islam.
What are talking about? Did you find that information in the 'invention of the Jewish people' story?
 





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there are 3 primary types Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Jews/arabs, europeans, iranians, north indians etc are Caucasoid, Abraham was Caucasoid. American Indians were Mongoloid, they probably got to the America's crossing over from Siberia.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...cestor-today-s-native-americans-found-siberia
the Aboroginies of Australia are a mix of Negroid and Mongoloid. You have the dravidians of india who are negroid.

Jews (or more accurately Israelites) are an ethnic group the same way Celtics or Saxons or Slavs are ethnic groups. Obv along the way other people converted to judaism and mixed with them..but the end product is that they still have jewish blood in them. It's like descendants of Mohammad through his daughter...if one marries an outsider and has a kid, that kid is still regarded as a descendant..if that kid grows up to have a kid with another outsider, genetically it's still part of the race despite only having a fraction of his blood. Outsiders converting to judaism would not be considered jewish by jews..unless they married jews and their children continued the line. Ashkenazi jews are related to Palestians..and many people say ashkenazi's are khazar's.
There are several things in here that are modern inventions and have nothing to do with what the Bible says about choosing to believe in the God of Abraham and reject other Gods. There is no distinction between them. When foreigners are referenced in the Bible, this implies that they are not believers in the God of Abraham. What you are talking about is a modern interpretation based on a history of prejudice and the Talmud.

Judaism is a religion. Albeit, it is a religion that can be passed down and create a familial tradition and connection, but it is not an ethnicity in any way that is identifiable in the modern world. There is no way to compare the DNA of any person claiming to be Jewish with the DNA that would have created some sort of distinguishing feature as a result of being derived from Abraham, the way Chinese people develop a distinct look.

It is also not a secret that the Hasmoneans forced converts or that Herod was a notable convert, so the suggestion that conversion is centered on the theory of the Khazar experience is also limited as a means of recognizing the history of conversion within Judaism.

In addition to this, it is verifiable that Ashkenazi's Jews have no real connection to Israel. Here is an article about a man who took a DNA test that returned with a result of 100% Ashkenazi Jew. However, when you looked further back into the haplogroups.

And we still haven’t mentioned the haplogroup, paternal and maternal. As the report explains, “You descend from a long line of men [or women] that can be traced back to eastern Africa over 275,000 [for women, 150,000] years ago. These are the men [women] of your paternal [maternal] line, and your paternal [maternal] haplogroup sheds light on their story.”

This is said to be one of the most riveting areas in genetics. It allows us to trace our lineage directly back to our primeval forebears. If until now the report referred to Radu Tudor from Bucharest, I’m about to find out about my relations among prehistoric man. “Gideon,” the report says, “your maternal haplogroup is H1 ... and can reveal the path followed by the women of your maternal line.” Happy days. My female ancestors traveled north 18,000 years ago and reached Europe. Along the way, these ancestors passed through the deserts of Saudi Arabia – but, alas, never even approached the Land of Israel. Not for a moment. Can that be?

Hope remained from my father’s line; in his haplogroup, the picture is different. It’s the R-CTS6 group, says the report, “that traces back to a man who lived less than 6,000 years ago. That’s nearly 240.0 generations ago!” Duh. But again, astonishingly, there’s not a trace of the Land of Israel in my ancestors’ journeys in the past 275,000 years. They never saw it, not even through binoculars. It’s the definite end of my Zionism. My deep connection with the Land of Israel faded in an instant and became nonexistent..
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-about-his-ancestors-link-to-israel-1.7279258

But like I was saying, suggesting that this matters is a modern invention and it is the foundation of what is wrong with the Zionist movement. It is not really one way or the other. If the prophecy is being correctly interpreted to say that Jews should return to Israel. This man should be included. The Old Testament makes no distinction between believers in the God of Abraham. It would only make a distinction between people because they believed in different Gods.

Obviously, when we look at the Old Testament, we are talking about a tribal situation where this wouldn't have happened as much. But during the time of Christ, this would not have been the case, and it is reasonable to assume that people could have, and were, encouraged to convert to Judaism because the Old Testament did not discourage it and the Talmud was not written down and worshipped yet. If we look at the history of the Hasmoneans, it is already possible to see conversion happening, which could be considered similar to what we are seeing today. There are a lot of people converting to Judaism in the modern world as a result of the creation of Israel so many people may have been considered Jews for over a thousand years even, but they still have no real historical connection to the land.
 





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If you’re looking for a map of the boundaries that God set for Israel, you should be able to find that in your Bible.
Thanks for the suggestion. My Bible only has a map which has old names, such as Judea and Samaria, and I cannot tell, by looking at it, to what extent modern Syria and Lebanon might be affected when maps are re-drawn, presumably with American military back-up and assistance, along Deuteronomical lines. Is there any more of modern Syria, other than the Golan Heights, that might ultimately be incorporated into Eretz Israel?
 





Lisa

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Thanks for the suggestion. My Bible only has a map which has old names, such as Judea and Samaria, and I cannot tell, by looking at it, to what extent modern Syria and Lebanon might be affected when maps are re-drawn, presumably with American military back-up and assistance, along Deuteronomical lines. Is there any more of modern Syria, other than the Golan Heights, that might ultimately be incorporated into Eretz Israel?
You can’t tell where modern day Syria and modern Lebanon are from that map?
 





Lisa

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If catholic and orthodox people aren’t Christian than there was a whole thousand years or so where like no one was saved. I believe in Jesus but I find it difficult to swallow how difficult I have been seeing people imply it is to be saved. It’s not that difficult.

Catholics and orthodox Christians are Christians whether you choose to believe in their denominational specific doctrines or not. There are probably a lot of people who are also saved whether a lot of you think they are or not because it is not the complicated process of jumping through hoops like it is made to seem especially when someone is trying to use this as a way of implying that the Christians who lived in the land for the last 2000 years aren’t really Christians because they are really trying to imply that it belongs to the Jews and it doesn’t matter if they been there longer or not.

In addition to this, these orthodox and catholic Christians in the area are in many cases Jewish converts to Christianity because this was your only real option before there was a protestant movement to bless the world with the only population of real Christians that have ever existed since the apostles apparently.

A lot of Muslims in this area are also Jewish converts in many cases because remember the story goes that Muhammad came to this area, and the people didn’t have to leave the area when the Muslims came. Shlomo sand has said in his book the invention of the Jewish people that the Arabs didn’t migrate, the population increased because Jews converted to Islam. This is how the Muslim population increased in the area. The number of converts can’t be verified but it is a fact that people didn’t have to leave when the Muslims came and arabs didn’t have a mass migration to the area. So the number of Muslims is relevant to a ratio of converts along with people who came during the time of conquest.

So I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that some people rethink this especially if they support Israel. The hypocrisy and double standards abound.
I think that there was an actual Christian movement before the catholics came into it, the disciples wrote about it.

Catholics aren’t Christians because they follow another gospel simple as that, the Corinthians didn’t but apparently it can be done and has been done.
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11:3-4‬ ‭
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.
The gospel preached by catholics makes Jesus either a baby in His mothers arms or a dead man on a cross. And they also elevate His mother to godlike status by praying to her and telling its followers that she is co-redemptix when Jesus is the once for all sacrifice and needed no help from His mother. In fact what happened has nothing at all do do with His mother, but catholics who worship her as god can’t see this as they deny they worship her. That is wrong and will never be right biblically. Not to mention the heresy of the mass and literally converting wine and cracker to Jesus’ actual blood and flesh? That’s not right and anyone who participates in that, can they really be called a Christian? Not to mention the pope and the priests of catholicism.
You still have to have the correct doctrine because we worship in spirit and in truth. Not only that Jesus does tell us that some people who think they are Christians aren’t, and He never knew them, so we need to keep that in mind, there are people He never knew who call Him Lord.
Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
‭‭
Not only that but you mention that its easy to get saved, which idk about that...one first has to admit they are sinners, that they are wrong, and that is no easy feat. And to stay in the truth harder still...
Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
‭‭

I think its good that Israel is back in their land that God gave to them in His covenant with Abraham, it is their land forever.
Genesis‬ ‭17:7-8‬ ‭
I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.​
‭‭
Plus it also has to happen as Israel is part of the end times events prophesied in the Bible, so idk why Christians would be upset about it because a.) God gave them the land forever b.)them being in the land is prophecy and once God’s arm is outstretched who can stop it? If you’re gonna be mad about the Jews..you might as well just be mad at God.
Zechariah‬ ‭12:2-3‬ ‭
Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭11:31‬ ‭
Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:15‬ ‭
Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

These things have to happen, this is how we know how close we are to Jesus’ return.
Luke‬ ‭21:29-32‬ ‭
Then He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.”
‭‭
 





DavidSon

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there are 3 primary types Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Jews/arabs, europeans, iranians, north indians etc are Caucasoid, Abraham was Caucasoid. American Indians were Mongoloid, they probably got to the America's crossing over from Siberia.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...cestor-today-s-native-americans-found-siberia
the Aboroginies of Australia are a mix of Negroid and Mongoloid. You have the dravidians of india who are negroid.

Jews (or more accurately Israelites) are an ethnic group the same way Celtics or Saxons or Slavs are ethnic groups. Obv along the way other people converted to judaism and mixed with them..but the end product is that they still have jewish blood in them. It's like descendants of Mohammad through his daughter...if one marries an outsider and has a kid, that kid is still regarded as a descendant..if that kid grows up to have a kid with another outsider, genetically it's still part of the race despite only having a fraction of his blood. Outsiders converting to judaism would not be considered jewish by jews..unless they married jews and their children continued the line. Ashkenazi jews are related to Palestians..and many people say ashkenazi's are khazar's.
I enjoy your discussions about Philo and the mingling of various philosophies but your understanding of ancient history seems lacking. Your categorization of "races" (which technically is non-existent) here is shallow. Greek historians such as Eusibius, Megathenes, and Porphory all relayed that the Jews and Ethiopians were black; that all stories and similarities between East-West show us that the tribe of "Ioudi", with their customs and supreme astrological knowledge originated in India. There's so much more to the history of the middle east than euro-centric historians were willing to publish. I mean "Arab" at one time meant "black". I hope you'll search a bit deeper and offer some new insight on the subject or at least some facts to support what your saying.

The point @rainerann was making is that Judaism as a distinct, (verifiable) historical movement didn't blossom until the Hasmonean and Hellenic eras. As the concept of monotheism grew throughout the Hellenized world, from Egypt through Asia minor, multiple ethnic groups were circumcised and kept the worship of IAO (as the Greeks wrote the tetragrammaton). With the spread of the culture through intermarriage and conversion there never was a identifiable "Judean" ethnicity.

A major point brought up in TIOTJP is that the notion of exile that the Zionists fomented in the 19th and 20th century was fabricated. From the Hellenic period until then there was no longing for a homeland because the exile was spiritual separation from God. People were quite prosperous and content to be where they were, universally. I hope people will check out this book, at least jump ahead to the Hasmonean history that's been brought up and how it relates.

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-tK1HC34yngmDtslV/The+Invention+Of+The+Jewish+People_djvu.txt
 





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I enjoy your discussions about Philo and the mingling of various philosophies but your understanding of ancient history seems lacking. Your categorization of "races" (which technically is non-existent) here is shallow. Greek historians such as Eusibius, Megathenes, and Porphory all relayed that the Jews and Ethiopians were black; that all stories and similarities between East-West show us that the tribe of "Ioudi", with their customs and supreme astrological knowledge originated in India. There's so much more to the history of the middle east than euro-centric historians were willing to publish. I mean "Arab" at one time meant "black". I hope you'll search a bit deeper and offer some new insight on the subject or at least some facts to support what your saying.

The point @rainerann was making is that Judaism as a distinct, (verifiable) historical movement didn't blossom until the Hasmonean and Hellenic eras. As the concept of monotheism grew throughout the Hellenized world, from Egypt through Asia minor, multiple ethnic groups were circumcised and kept the worship of IAO (as the Greeks wrote the tetragrammaton). With the spread of the culture through intermarriage and conversion there never was a identifiable "Judean" ethnicity.

A major point brought up in TIOTJP is that the notion of exile that the Zionists fomented in the 19th and 20th century was fabricated. From the Hellenic period until then there was no longing for a homeland because the exile was spiritual separation from God. People were quite prosperous and content to be where they were, universally. I hope people will check out this book, at least jump ahead to the Hasmonean history that's been brought up and how it relates.

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-tK1HC34yngmDtslV/The+Invention+Of+The+Jewish+People_djvu.txt


1) I was responding to @rainerann when he/she made this point


Take Africa for instance. You can’t say you’re black and have people take you seriously if you don’t look black. Consider what happens to these recognizable traits when a black person has a baby with someone from Ireland. Guess what, they no longer to look like they came from Africa anymore. They may have some traits that can be identified as descending from a African origin, but they don’t look like they came from Africa anymore.

Why isn’t there a common genetic look like the Chinese and Africans have if the Jews are an ethnic group, because they are not an ethnic group.



This was absurd because jews are a subethnicity within a wider group, Israelites who are a subethnicity of Caucasoid Sumerians, Abraham was a Sumerian.

2) I mean "Arab" at one time meant "black"
to who? people have historically generalised. For example the GYPSIES were called gypsies because europeans through they were from egypt based on their skintone..and 'egypt' in that time was just synonymous with anyone brown skinned.
Just like the Greek's in recent history referred to any muslim as a 'turk'. Similarly, there are brits who call all arabs and indians 'pakis'. Americans who call us blacks.

Greek historians such as Eusibius, Megathenes, and Porphory all relayed that the Jews and Ethiopians were black; that all stories and similarities between East-West show us that the tribe of "Ioudi", with their customs and supreme astrological knowledge originated in India.
so jews and were blacks from india?

Porphory, never heard of him.
check this out though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyry_(philosopher)#Against_the_Christians_(Adversus_Christianos)

Porphyry became one of the most able pagan adversaries of Christianity of his day. His aim was not to disprove the substance of Christianity’s teachings but rather the records within which the teachings are communicated
reminds me of most of the christians on the internet when they try to discredit islam.

"According to Jerome, Porphyry especially attacked the prophecy of Daniel because Jews and Christians pointed to the historical fulfillment of its prophecies as a decisive argument. But these prophecies, he maintained, were written not by Daniel but by some Jew who in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes (d. 164 BC) gathered up the traditions of Daniel's life and wrote a history of recent past events but in the future tense, falsely dating them back to Daniel's time."

thing is Daniel 7 and Daniel 9 (the 7 weeks prophecy) point to Jesus and Titus. So obv this guy was wrong..esp wrong to interpret Daniel 7's '10 horns' and the 'little horn' as Antiochus Epiphanes...it was Titus and the 10 horns were 10 roman emperors from Augustus Ceasar to Vespasian with Titus as the 'little horn' since he was Vespasian's son at the time. The 10 emperors are specific because of their rule over the jews during the the jewish temple era. Titus became emperor after the temple had been destroyed.

This is offtopic but im bringing it up to point out that he's hardly a credible source to build an argument off. Are you basically saying the real jews are/were black?


3) the greeks also named the 'holy land' PALESTINE after the phillistines, why? to discredit jews, to tell them 'you are nothing, your religion doesnt mean shit, we will rename you and you will lose your identity', how do you suppose jews would react to that?
So greek opinion of jews is hardly credible.


4) obviously much of my overall view of jews is based on religious scriptures and tradition. So for example you said

From the Hellenic period until then there was no longing for a homeland because the exile was spiritual separation from God. People were quite prosperous and content to be where they were, universally.

why would there be a longing for a homeland from the hellenistic era, when jews already lived there? or do you mean the maccabean revolt?
You mean to tell me the jewish revolt against Heraclius and the byzantine-sassanian war for Jerusalem, wasn't linked to jewish messianicism and the wish to establish Zion?
Also, it goes without saying the idea of Zion was first and foremost about being reconciled with God, that was the primary objective. I don't support zionist nationalism.

5)
Judaism as a distinct, (verifiable) historical movement didn't blossom until the Hasmonean and Hellenic eras. As the concept of monotheism grew throughout the Hellenized world, from Egypt through Asia minor, multiple ethnic groups were circumcised and kept the worship of IAO (as the Greeks wrote the tetragrammaton). With the spread of the culture through intermarriage and conversion there never was a identifiable "Judean" ethnicity.

'verifiable' because you're selective with which bit of history you choose to follow? you quote random historical figures who wrote some shit, but can write off the old testament quite easily.
I don't really know why you're trying to make these points with me, you've assumed a lot from my basic response to @rainerann , i was merely making a point about ethnicity/bloodline. So i don't really get what it is you're trying to argue here.

Just because greeks/romans identified JEWS (as far as that name goes) their own identity yahudis is far older than the hellenistic era.
 





DavidSon

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1) I was responding to @rainerann when he/she made this point


Take Africa for instance. You can’t say you’re black and have people take you seriously if you don’t look black. Consider what happens to these recognizable traits when a black person has a baby with someone from Ireland. Guess what, they no longer to look like they came from Africa anymore. They may have some traits that can be identified as descending from a African origin, but they don’t look like they came from Africa anymore.

Why isn’t there a common genetic look like the Chinese and Africans have if the Jews are an ethnic group, because they are not an ethnic group.


This was absurd because jews are a subethnicity within a wider group, Israelites who are a subethnicity of Caucasoid Sumerians, Abraham was a Sumerian.

2) I mean "Arab" at one time meant "black"
to who? people have historically generalised. For example the GYPSIES were called gypsies because europeans through they were from egypt based on their skintone..and 'egypt' in that time was just synonymous with anyone brown skinned.
Just like the Greek's in recent history referred to any muslim as a 'turk'. Similarly, there are brits who call all arabs and indians 'pakis'. Americans who call us blacks.

Greek historians such as Eusibius, Megathenes, and Porphory all relayed that the Jews and Ethiopians were black; that all stories and similarities between East-West show us that the tribe of "Ioudi", with their customs and supreme astrological knowledge originated in India.
so jews and were blacks from india?

Porphory, never heard of him.
check this out though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyry_(philosopher)#Against_the_Christians_(Adversus_Christianos)

Porphyry became one of the most able pagan adversaries of Christianity of his day. His aim was not to disprove the substance of Christianity’s teachings but rather the records within which the teachings are communicated
reminds me of most of the christians on the internet when they try to discredit islam.

"According to Jerome, Porphyry especially attacked the prophecy of Daniel because Jews and Christians pointed to the historical fulfillment of its prophecies as a decisive argument. But these prophecies, he maintained, were written not by Daniel but by some Jew who in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes (d. 164 BC) gathered up the traditions of Daniel's life and wrote a history of recent past events but in the future tense, falsely dating them back to Daniel's time."

thing is Daniel 7 and Daniel 9 (the 7 weeks prophecy) point to Jesus and Titus. So obv this guy was wrong..esp wrong to interpret Daniel 7's '10 horns' and the 'little horn' as Antiochus Epiphanes...it was Titus and the 10 horns were 10 roman emperors from Augustus Ceasar to Vespasian with Titus as the 'little horn' since he was Vespasian's son at the time. The 10 emperors are specific because of their rule over the jews during the the jewish temple era. Titus became emperor after the temple had been destroyed.

This is offtopic but im bringing it up to point out that he's hardly a credible source to build an argument off. Are you basically saying the real jews are/were black?


3) the greeks also named the 'holy land' PALESTINE after the phillistines, why? to discredit jews, to tell them 'you are nothing, your religion doesnt mean shit, we will rename you and you will lose your identity', how do you suppose jews would react to that?
So greek opinion of jews is hardly credible.


4) obviously much of my overall view of jews is based on religious scriptures and tradition. So for example you said

From the Hellenic period until then there was no longing for a homeland because the exile was spiritual separation from God. People were quite prosperous and content to be where they were, universally.

why would there be a longing for a homeland from the hellenistic era, when jews already lived there? or do you mean the maccabean revolt?
You mean to tell me the jewish revolt against Heraclius and the byzantine-sassanian war for Jerusalem, wasn't linked to jewish messianicism and the wish to establish Zion?
Also, it goes without saying the idea of Zion was first and foremost about being reconciled with God, that was the primary objective. I don't support zionist nationalism.

5)
Judaism as a distinct, (verifiable) historical movement didn't blossom until the Hasmonean and Hellenic eras. As the concept of monotheism grew throughout the Hellenized world, from Egypt through Asia minor, multiple ethnic groups were circumcised and kept the worship of IAO (as the Greeks wrote the tetragrammaton). With the spread of the culture through intermarriage and conversion there never was a identifiable "Judean" ethnicity.

'verifiable' because you're selective with which bit of history you choose to follow? you quote random historical figures who wrote some shit, but can write off the old testament quite easily.
I don't really know why you're trying to make these points with me, you've assumed a lot from my basic response to @rainerann , i was merely making a point about ethnicity/bloodline. So i don't really get what it is you're trying to argue here.

Just because greeks/romans identified JEWS (as far as that name goes) their own identity yahudis is far older than the hellenistic era.
Not trying to assume what you know or believe. There's so many interesting ideas here but I'll try to stay on topic. The essence of my OP was questioning the validity (by Jews themselves) of a 3rd temple and the fabricated political movement of Zionism that developed far outside of what we know of Judaism the last 2000 years.

I'm not claiming anything exact about the origination of the Israelite tribe, just bringing up the fact that the stories are shrouded in legend/symbols. The history is not cut-and-dry like Eurocentric historians would have us believe. Here is one exert from Higgins about the Greek historians I was referencing:

"Megasthenes (c.300BC)... says, they were an Indian sect or tribe called Kalani, and that their theology has great resemblance to that of the Indians... Aristotle gave an account of the Jews that they came from Indian astrologers and that they were called by the Indians as Calami, and by the Syrians as Judaei... Eusibius asserted that about 1575 a tribe of Ethiopians came from the river Indus and encamped and settled near Egypt..."

https://thedarksideofhistory.files....s_v_1-godfrey_higgins-1927-786pgs-rel-sml.pdf

Abraham is a near mythological figure who multiple nationalities claim to have derived from. I don't blindly accept as a fact that he was a "Caucasoid Sumerian", when Indo-Europeans had barely begun migrating that far south and west. I guess that's where we part ways, because I don't look to the Jewish Bible as a history book. I'm not saying it's pure fiction but all evidence points to it being written (or drastically edited) in the Hellenic era. There is 0 evidence of a powerful monotheistic Kingdom ruled by David among the Canaanites. No history from other tribes, no ruins, nothing. The tale of Ezra/Nehemiah is proven to be fictitious; the authors couldn't even get their timeline straight between Darius II or whoever. The "decree of Cyrus" to repopulate the Levant is another fable only known by the Bible. Not that I agree with all this but worth checking out:

https://www.academia.edu/23151566/Ezra_and_Nehemiah_Bringing_Judaism_from_Persia

Honestly this is all beside the point and better suited to another thread. Speaking specifically about Jewish nationhood and ethnicity here is another few quotes from Schlomo's book. This whole section goes into great detail about the effect of the Septuagint and the great numbers of converts:

"Philo's use of the word ethnos — like Josephus's use of phylon or phyle — already designated a growing cult community rather than an isolationist community of origin, and it certainly does not correspond to the modern term "nation." The Alexandrian philosopher viewed conversion to Judaism as a reasonable and positive phenomenon that demographically enlarged his ethnos.

This was a historical phase in which the distinctive nature of the spreading monotheism began, under the influence of Hellenism, to undermine earlier identities. In the traditional identities, the pagan cults corresponded more or less to the cultural-linguistic communities — the "peoples," the "commonalties," the cities or tribes. From this time on, the ancient association between religious boundaries and everyday cultural and language characteristics began to fall. For example, Philo himself, for all his extensive knowledge, knew neither Hebrew nor Aramaic, yet this did not diminish his devout attachment to the Mosaic religion, which he, like many of his fellow believers, knew in its famous translation. Some of his writing was probably also intended to persuade gentiles
to change their ways and abandon "their own individual customs."

"...But though the whole world did not convert to Judaism, as the Jewish historian might have hoped, the large numbers of gentiles who were drawn to Judaism, and the full conversion of many of them, added up to the presence of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of Jews around the southeastern Mediterranean."
 





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If the contention is that the Jews are eventually going to acquire the rest of the land they are supposed to be occupying, what do you suppose they’re waiting for?
They could, perhaps, be waiting for legislation to passed in various countries around the world that penalizes the expression of objection to their expansionist goals.

I wonder, why would a man scheme and plot to incapacitate his neighbors, so that at the end of the day, he is the strong man standing? And what could possibly arrest his temptation to seize the land or any other possessions that belong to his neighbors, whom he has rendered disabled/defenseless?

Speaking of legislation, if it was Sharia law, some Christians would be up in arms and there’d be protest marches but where is the outrage expressed when criticism of Israel or Jews is equated to antisemitism and is infact criminalized? If the coming antichrist is going to be Jewish, these kinds of laws will work for him perfectly but by then, it just might be too late for some Christians to express their objections since it will be illegal anyway.
They're Catholic and Orthodox. Very different.
What is used to classify any sect as “Christian”?
 





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Thanks for the suggestion. My Bible only has a map which has old names, such as Judea and Samaria, and I cannot tell, by looking at it, to what extent modern Syria and Lebanon might be affected when maps are re-drawn, presumably with American military back-up and assistance, along Deuteronomical lines. Is there any more of modern Syria, other than the Golan Heights, that might ultimately be incorporated into Eretz Israel?
I wasn't referring to the maps at the back of your Bible. I meant you should read your Bible, if you want to know the extent of the land God promised to Abraham's descendants.

In Genesis 15, God makes a covenant with Abraham. In the preamble to this event, God promises Abram that his seed would be as countless as the stars. God also defined what he meant when he referred to Abram's seed -- his descendants. God said, he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. I point that out because the definition of who inherits these promises of God's to Abraham's seed is very important. Replacement theologists believe the Church will inherit these promises, but ignore God's stipulation that it is only Abraham's physical descendants who qualify for the physical promises. The promise of the land is a physical promise made by God which has yet to be fulfilled. I trust that God will fulfill every promise he has made.

As far as the boundaries of the land God promised to Abraham's descendants, they can be found in verse 18 of Genesis 15 (along with other places in scripture).

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

But that's just the start of it. I'm too lazy to package everything like these people have, so here's a rare cut and paste guide to all the verses that define the land God will eventually give to Israel.

SOUTH:
From the Red Sea, in the region of Eilat today, to the Sea of the Philistines which would be the Mediterranean Sea near Gaza. This southern line was to a point called the River of Egypt, or the wadi of Egypt (which was certainly not the Nile River) on the Great Sea – another name for the Mediterranean. [Exodus 23:31; Ezekiel 47:19; Genesis 15:18].​
The Red Sea
and the coast road of the Sinai Peninsula just south of Eilat.​
WEST:
The coastline of the Mediterranean – called, in those days, the Great Sea [Numbers 34:6; Ezekiel 47:20].​
Mediterranean coastline
at Caesarea.​
NORTH:
From the Great Sea, or Western Sea – other names for the Mediterranean – through what is Lebanon and Syria today to the Euphrates River in the north [Genesis 15:18; Deuteronomy 11:24; Ezekiel 47:17; Joshua 1:4].​
The mountains of Lebanon
seen from the Hula Valley in Israel’s north.​
EAST:
From the Euphrates River in the north, extending south, past Damascus, along the slopes on the eastern side of the Sea of Kinnereth, what we know as the Golan Heights today. The Kinnereth is also called the Eastern Sea in Scripture and is what we know as the Sea of Galilee.​
The Sea of Galilee
– the Bible calls this the Sea of Kinnereth or the Eastern Sea.​
The Jordan River rises in the mountains of Lebanon and runs south to the Sea of Galilee. At the southern end of the Sea of Galilee the Jordan River flows out and along the Jordan Valley to enter the Dead Sea. The eastern side of the Jordan River, south of the Golan Heights, represents the boundary of the Promised Land [Numbers 34:11-12; Ezekiel 47:18].​
The Dead Sea
or Salt Sea as it is called in the Bible.​

Here's a map that shows the boundaries of Israel over present day nations.



The modern state of Israel obviously doesn't encompass all of that, and I don't expect it to until the Lord returns. The thing that a lot of anti-Zionists don't understand is that no one who reads the Bible expects Israel to have possession of those lands under the present circumstances of the world we live in now. Israel will come into her full inheritance only in the perfect kingdom of Jesus Christ.

I don't support modern Israel's current possession of their land in the middle east because of any verse in the Bible. Anti-Zionists can't seem to wrap their head around that one, either. Israel's present-day claim to the land stands on it's own merits, and when you consider that they've already given massive chunks of Eretz Israel back to Arabs, the theory that Israel is set to conquer their neighbouring countries seems pretty flimsy. I don't believe for a second that Israel intends to conquer any of Eretz Israel, and I wouldn't support any wars of expansion on their part.

Here's a question I'd like an honest answer to. Based on the verses I've posted, do you believe that Abraham's physical descendants will one day inherit all the land God promised them?
 





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They could, perhaps, be waiting for legislation to passed in various countries around the world that penalizes the expression of objection to their expansionist goals.
Get a grip, Karly. They don't even have laws in Israel that penalize expression of objection to Israel's goals. The only thing you can be penalized for in Israel is for promoting BDS, and since BDS stands against any Jewish state in the middle east, I find Israel's stance against BDS to be pretty reasonable.

I wonder, why would a man scheme and plot to incapacitate his neighbors, so that at the end of the day, he is the strong man standing? And what could possibly arrest his temptation to seize the land or any other possessions that belong to his neighbors, whom he has rendered disabled/defenseless?
In your fevered mind, which of her neighbours do you imagine that Israel is plotting and scheming to incapacitate? Jordan and Egypt, both of which have made peace with Israel and benefited from doing so? Or do you mean Syria and Lebanon, both of which have done more to destroy themselves than Israel ever could?

Speaking of legislation, if it was Sharia law, some Christians would be up in arms and there’d be protest marches but where is the outrage expressed when criticism of Israel or Jews is equated to antisemitism and is infact criminalized? If the coming antichrist is going to be Jewish, these kinds of laws will work for him perfectly but by then, it just might be too late for some Christians to express their objections since it will be illegal anyway.
There are no laws against criticism of Israel. If there were, you'd be in jail, wouldn't you?
 





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Now this is an interesting development...

The 'most beautiful and best preserved Dead Sea Scroll' reveals the ancient parchment was treated with mysterious salts to protect the texts

BD655945-F82E-40F8-A8B1-348A194822ED.jpeg

  • Researchers studied a fragment of the Temple Scroll under a microscope...
  • They found that the scroll was treated by calcium, sodium and sulphur salts
  • The mix of salts did not match those found on other scroll or in the Dead Sea
  • Understanding how the scrolls were made may help to preserve them better

Microscopic analysis of the most beautiful and best preserved of the Dead Sea Scrolls has revealed that the parchment was treated with mysterious salts.

Researchers found that the Temple Scroll was prepared with a mixture of salts that did not match those found in the nearby Dead Sea.

These salts appear to have given the scroll its white colour and helped protect it from the ravages of time.

The Temple Scroll, which is written as a revelation to Moses from God, describe a never-built Jewish temple and religious practices to occur therein.

With the first found in 1947 by Bedouin shepherds, the Hebrew scrolls — which number around 900 — are among the best preserved of all ancient documents.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...Dead-Sea-Scroll-treated-mysterious-salts.html

Now, do I think that the Jews is Israel should build their Third Temple?

NO - they should repent and believe in Jesus, their real Messiah.

Do I think that the Bible records the idea that they will at some future point build (or have built for them) a Third Temple?

Undoubtably.
 





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Get a grip, Karly. They don't even have laws in Israel that penalize expression of objection to Israel's goals. The only thing you can be penalized for in Israel is for promoting BDS, and since BDS stands against any Jewish state in the middle east, I find Israel's stance against BDS to be pretty reasonable.





In your fevered mind, which of her neighbours do you imagine that Israel is plotting and scheming to incapacitate? Jordan and Egypt, both of which have made peace with Israel and benefited from doing so? Or do you mean Syria and Lebanon, both of which have done more to destroy themselves than Israel ever could?



There are no laws against criticism of Israel. If there were, you'd be in jail, wouldn't you?
It's amusing to read your mainstream, FOX news, Zionist evaluation of Israeli/US schemes. Not to speak for @Karlysymon but we all know who owns the most wealthy tech companies and media outlets, along with 80% of US politicians. Anyone who isn't noticing their attempt to crackdown on criticism of Israeli policy globally is blind to reality.

The reason the Israeli government is taking the slow road to destroying the Palestinians, Syria, Iran, etc. is because they're patient. We're witnessing the results of an agenda that's 150 years old (and more). The modern Yinon Plan and other documents show plainly their intention to destabilize the ME in all directions.

We also know they can't enact their devices at one time; there's already an international outcry in defense of the Palestinians. Why do you think their military and private companies spend millions to spread disinformation online? What other force hires rooms of trolls to police the web lol. BDS is hampering their investments, that's a fact. If they broke (yet another) agreement and say seize Aqsa Mosque overnight, there would be a pushback. The Zionists are methodical swindlers, they're playing the long game. Let the US weaken Syria for 10 years while collaborating with ISIS, impose economic sanctions on Iran, and just slowly choke the life out of Palestine while inviting fellow crooked Zionist billionaires to part out their land. And here I thought military conquest was illegal...

The Neteuri Karta are right: Jews cursed themselves by becoming pawns for evil political means. Over 2000 years their religion taught that only God could bring them to a homeland; any other way is a lie that leads to punishment. Forcing their way into Palestine has brought strife and an anxiety for the common citizen that will never cease until there is righteous action shown. Kushner's 3rd temple is an abomination and there isn't one argument from a true believer in God/Jesus Christ to support such wickedness.
 





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It's amusing to read your mainstream, FOX news, Zionist evaluation of Israeli/US schemes. Not to speak for @Karlysymon but we all know who owns the most wealthy tech companies and media outlets, along with 80% of US politicians. Anyone who isn't noticing their attempt to crackdown on criticism of Israeli policy globally is blind to reality.

The reason the Israeli government is taking the slow road to destroying the Palestinians, Syria, Iran, etc. is because they're patient. We're witnessing the results of an agenda that's 150 years old (and more). The modern Yinon Plan and other documents show plainly their intention to destabilize the ME in all directions.

We also know they can't enact their devices at one time; there's already an international outcry in defense of the Palestinians. Why do you think their military and private companies spend millions to spread disinformation online? What other force hires rooms of trolls to police the web lol. BDS is hampering their investments, that's a fact. If they broke (yet another) agreement and say seize Aqsa Mosque overnight, there would be a pushback. The Zionists are methodical swindlers, they're playing the long game. Let the US weaken Syria for 10 years while collaborating with ISIS, impose economic sanctions on Iran, and just slowly choke the life out of Palestine while inviting fellow crooked Zionist billionaires to part out their land. And here I thought military conquest was illegal...

The Neteuri Karta are right: Jews cursed themselves by becoming pawns for evil political means. Over 2000 years their religion taught that only God could bring them to a homeland; any other way is a lie that leads to punishment. Forcing their way into Palestine has brought strife and an anxiety for the common citizen that will never cease until there is righteous action shown. Kushner's 3rd temple is an abomination and there isn't one argument from a true believer in God/Jesus Christ to support such wickedness.
An exclusively Talmud-based organization is hailed as Correct, concerning Israel and Palestine? And the whole middle east? Interesting stuff, for sure. But then both sides are played in the media, because when it comes to politics, both sides have an angle. But using the Talmud-- a terrible source imo-- is not the most convincing angle, in this case, if you're attempting a religious defense. Js.