Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service

Lisa

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An interesting use of “cut off” here - cut off from future blessing or cut off from salvation and Gods plan permanently?

If God would not forever discard the Jews for their unbelief and rebellion, what makes you think he gives up on gentile Christians if they should ever once “fall away”?

On the other hand, if God treats Jews and Gentiles with an even hand, surely replacement theology would be more consistent with your other beliefs on salvation?
I follow what the Bible says..it may not always be consistent with what we want...God is pretty clear on what happens..if you have the eyes to see.
Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
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I follow what the Bible says..it may not always be consistent with what we want...God is pretty clear on what happens..if you have the eyes to see.
Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭​

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​

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And you are adamant that the Jewish context and the events of Kadesh Barnea are inadmissible as possible doctrinally consistent interpretations of this passage? What did you make of Andy Woods exegesis here?

 





Lisa

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And you are adamant that the Jewish context and the events of Kadesh Barnea are inadmissible as possible doctrinally consistent interpretations of this passage? What did you make of Andy Woods exegesis here?

Why can’t the passage mean what it says it means?
 





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Why can’t the passage mean what it says it means?
John 10:34-38 King James Version (KJV)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

P.s. irresistible force/immovable object (but I would be remiss not to present what I have found regardless!)

God bless you @Lisa
 





Lisa

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That is the “go to”, face value verse for New Agers to prove the serpent was right after all!
So how does that come into the Hebrews 6:4-6 convo? It’s face value is that you become saved and then fall away, that’s it. That however is not the only verse that says it..so I think we can take it at face value.

Just because you want to see what you want to see whether it fits the scripture or not doesn’t make it right. We already know that people like to have their ears tickled.
 





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So how does that come into the Hebrews 6:4-6 convo? It’s face value is that you become saved and then fall away, that’s it. That however is not the only verse that says it..so I think we can take it at face value.

Just because you want to see what you want to see whether it fits the scripture or not doesn’t make it right. We already know that people like to have their ears tickled.
What would you make of the lives of Christians who have at one point or another returned to the world, messed up then been restored by God’s grace? I read @Daciple ’s story and there are many other people who may have started in a Christian home, made some early commitment to Jesus, yet perhaps got tempted by degrees into an immoral, hedonistic lifestyle. This may have carried on for many years till something happens to bring them back to the Cross.

Is it your belief that this person could not be restored to repentance (“it is impossible to renew them again to repentance”) and is doomed regardless of having all the appearance of having actually done the impossible and repented and their life to the Lord?

It is an important question you must answer if you are going to assert your interpretation of the Hebrews is the only possible interpretation. I am sure it will be one which will interest those who have had their own prodigal son journey.
 





Lisa

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What would you make of the lives of Christians who have at one point or another returned to the world, messed up then been restored by God’s grace? I read @Daciple ’s story and there are many other people who may have started in a Christian home, made some early commitment to Jesus, yet perhaps got tempted by degrees into an immoral, hedonistic lifestyle. This may have carried on for many years till something happens to bring them back to the Cross.

Is it your belief that this person could not be restored to repentance (“it is impossible to renew them again to repentance”) and is doomed regardless of having all the appearance of having actually done the impossible and repented and their life to the Lord?

It is an important question you must answer if you are going to assert your interpretation of the Hebrews is the only possible interpretation. I am sure it will be one which will interest those who have had their own prodigal son journey.
If I were Daciple I wouldn’t have another one of those episodes...He fell hard but then he also thinks once saved always saved..


Hebrews‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
‭‭​
Again, be careful who you follow and what you believe..it is a big deal!
 





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@Red Sky at Morning
Matthew‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭​

For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
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Jesus knows...
The gate is as wide as one person...

John 10:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
 





Lisa

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The gate is as wide as one person...

John 10:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
I don’t think you understand the meaning of the narrow gate.
 





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I don’t think you understand the meaning of the narrow gate.
I have always thought it fairly clear Jesus was talking about Himself?

In John 6, people are asking what kind of works they were supposed to do...

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Could you explain your own interpretation of the “narrow gate” to me?
 





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Why is that a problem, God is wanting them to regain it...
Where does scripture say that the Shepherd mends the staff of Favor that He broke and shepherds them with it?

In regaining the privileges, I hope you realize what it entails. Israel becomes prosperous in both the temporal and spiritual aspects. Kinda like in Solomon’s heyday.
Part 1
1565734956002.png
Part 2
Becoming a theocracy and spreading "light" to the world even though it is Christians spreading the gospel around the world. "Making ready a people for the Lord". Do you want to live under Jewish Law/Halacha?
 





Lisa

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Could you explain it to me then?
I think it encompasses staying in the faith as well as finding Jesus because it is a narrow way.
‭‭
Hebrews‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.​
 





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I think it encompasses staying in the faith as well as finding Jesus because it is a narrow way.
‭‭
Hebrews‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭​

Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.​
Since neither of us wishes to have an evil, unbelieving heart, perhaps we can call something of a truce here?

I don’t believe you can lose your salvation but I do think you can experience shame and loss in front of the Bema seat of Christ.

As in Corinthians 3:-

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The Lord is first and foremost in my life, and I have no intentions of throwing away my faith (yes, even if I’m wrong about a pre-trib rapture).

So whatever it takes to keep you following the Lord and close to His will in your life, keep doing it. You are not my servant, you are His and you will no more give an account for me than I will for you!
 





Lisa

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Where does scripture say that the Shepherd mends the staff of Favor that He broke and shepherds them with it?
Ezekiel 36:22-28
Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.

In regaining the privileges, I hope you realize what it entails. Israel becomes prosperous in both the temporal and spiritual aspects. Kinda like in Solomon’s heyday.
Part 1
Part 2
Becoming a theocracy and spreading "light" to the world even though it is Christians spreading the gospel around the world. "Making ready a people for the Lord". Do you want to live under Jewish Law/Halacha?
That’s not what the Bible says happens. There’s a treaty and they are able to build a temple and renew sacrifices in Jerusalem but after 3 1/2 years the treaty is broken and they are forced to flee..then in another 3 1/2 years there is the millennium and its Jesus rule.
 





Lisa

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Since neither of us wishes to have an evil, unbelieving heart, perhaps we can call something of a truce here?

I don’t believe you can lose your salvation but I do think you can experience shame and loss in front of the Bema seat of Christ.

The Lord is first and foremost in my life, and I have no intentions of throwing away my faith (yes, even if I’m wrong about a pre-trib rapture).

So whatever it takes to keep you following the Lord and close to His will in your life, keep doing it. You are not my servant, you are His and you will no more give an account for me than I will for you!
I don’t think I can have a truce with you, Red.
 





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I don’t think I can have a truce with you, Red.
Well, you have free will @Lisa but I will try to treat you the way I would hope to be treated regardless.

I see no value at all in Christians sniping at one another while people are lost and need to hear something other than the lies this present world system is providing them with.

 





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If I were Daciple I wouldn’t have another one of those episodes...He fell hard but then he also thinks once saved always saved..


Hebrews‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭​

Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.​

‭‭​
Again, be careful who you follow and what you believe..it is a big deal!

I pray you never have a crisis of Faith, ever, because if you do you will think you are lost and well then you will also falsely believe that God cant bring you back to Himself.

I just wonder how you feel about Peter? Peter who said to Jesus I will stand by you no matter what. Peter who even went and tried to attack the people who were bringing Jesus to the Cross. Where was Peter found in the next few chapters?

Where was Peter when Jesus was crucified?

Do you think Peter was slower to the tomb because he disavowed Jesus 3 times even after saying to him he would die to protect him?

You must think Peter had no possible value to the Lord, that he was a wretch because he not only turned away from Jesus in his moment of need but he 100% disacknowledged even knowing Him at all.

Praise the Lord that Jesus is nothing like you in this aspect, even after turning completely away from Christ, to the point of saying he doesnt even know who He is, Jesus still came to restore their relationship back again.

Who was the first person to preach the Gospel after Christ ascended? Wasnt it Peter, the one who rejected Jesus outright, three different times? Why wasnt it John? The most beloved of Christ? The one who had his head on Christ chest, so close he could literally hear the heartbeat of God. Why wasnt he chosen?

Of all the Apostles it was Peter who was chosen to give the first sermon, to preach the Gospel first. I think it is wise to never judge a person who is going thru a crisis of Faith, you never know how God is going to move on and in them for His Glory.

Let me ask Lisa, what ability do you have to relate to those who are in the position where they are struggling in their Faith, or may have had something horrendous happen in their lives and they are not able to cope so they fall into Sin? What real help can you have to those people if you tell them what you tell everyone on this site. That since they are struggling and not doing the "works" that they are now Lost and going to Hell and they cant get their Salvation back?

Your doctrine would only cause the hurt and wounded person to fall farther away, and may even cause them to completely shipwreck their faith, refusing to turn because they wrongly believe God doesnt care anymore and is sending them straight to Hell for their doubts and heartaches.

Praise the Lord that your doctrine is completely false and incorrect and I can tell you, with zero doubts that I am not the only one who has had a Crisis of Faith, but then seen God do straight up miracles to restore and revive the relationship between the struggling in Faith person and their Lord and Creator.

Your message offers literally no hope to people, again Thank God that your message is incorrect and even the person that feels completely rejected by God, that is struggling with things you or I can not comprehend, and being brokenhearted has turned into the World and Sin, they still have hope in Christ. Christ can and will restore them, I am a living testament of it, and I know others that are as well.

If you who are reading this are in that position today, I am here to tell you that if you seek Gods face, He will be found, you can have everything you Lost restored and even greater than you can imagine given afterwards. God isnt mad at you, God hasnt turned away from you, He is just waiting for you to turn your heart back to Him. God Loves you and is wanting to pour His Goodness and Blessing upon you.

Dont listen to others who try and tell you that you are too far gone, your not, Jesus literally gave up everything all for you, all because He loves you. Everything is by Grace and Faith, even if you have done terrible things you are ashamed of, that you feel God wouldnt ever condone, Jesus literally died to free you from that and to give you hope and bring you back into Relationship with the Father.

Turn back to God, let Him show you just how much He loves you, I promise that He does and He will, all you have to do is Repent in your heart towards Him and He will be found. God loves you and so do I, if there is anything I can do to help or pray please let me know...