Rational reasoning and FACT(S)! Fiction is NOT welcome!

[DesertRose]

TheCreator placed/breathed His/Its Soul/Spirit into YOU!
Al Qur'an 32:9

32:9: Then He fashioned them and had a spirit of His Own ˹creation˺ breathed into them. And He gave you hearing, sight, and intellect. ˹Yet˺ you hardly give any thanks.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran

Islamic understanding:
In regards to the rooh this spirit we only say that the knowledge is exclusively with the Creator.
And they ask you [O Muhammad] concerning the rooh [the spirit]. Say: The rooh: it is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you(mankind) have been given only a little. [al-Isra 17:85]

The Creator is not within us and there is no union Hans according to Islam, we consider it incorrect to believe in a spark of the divine in beings or that there is an element of divinity in us. We believe Allah created a rooh/or soul and that soul was blown into Adam. All created things die. If God ascribes things to himself, it is an ascription of honour for example, when the Creator makes references in the Quran to the Kabah in Mecca as 'My house' or 'My messenger/s', or 'My camel" in regards to the camel in the story of Prophet Saleh peace be upon Him . Allah wants to honour this object, it does not mean that a bit of Allah is in Adam.

The Rooh/soul is created it is not a part of Allah, it is an amazing creation of Allah, but we can never understand it .
The Rooh/soul is Created, the body is Created, Adam is Created but Allah the Most High is not Created. Hope that clarifies the Islamic stance on this issue.


Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not, etc.) that of which you have no knowledge (e.g. ones saying: ‘I have seen,’ while in fact he has not seen, or ‘I have heard,’ while he has not heard). Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those you will be questioned (by Allah)”
[al-Isra’ 17:36]. "
Regarding the NWO war against the Creator I totally agree and wholeheartedly believe they will lose soundly.
"Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered." (Quran 8:36)

"They desire to extinguish Allah’s Light with their mouths but Allah will perfect His Light, though the disbelievers hate it."
(Surah Saff, verse 8)"

 

[HansConsciousness]

32:9: Then He fashioned them and had a spirit of His Own ˹creation˺ breathed into them. And He gave you hearing, sight, and intellect. ˹Yet˺ you hardly give any thanks.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran

Islamic understanding:
In regards to the rooh this spirit we only say that the knowledge is exclusively with the Creator.
And they ask you [O Muhammad] concerning the rooh [the spirit]. Say: The rooh: it is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you(mankind) have been given only a little. [al-Isra 17:85]

The Creator is not within us and there is no union Hans according to Islam, we consider it incorrect to believe in a spark of the divine in beings or that there is an element of divinity in us. We believe Allah created a rooh/or soul and that soul was blown into Adam. All created things die. If God ascribes things to himself, it is an ascription of honour for example, when the Creator makes references in the Quran to the Kabah in Mecca as 'My house' or 'My messenger/s', or 'My camel" in regards to the camel in the story of Prophet Saleh peace be upon Him . Allah wants to honour this object, it does not mean that a bit of Allah is in Adam.

The Rooh/soul is created it is not a part of Allah, it is an amazing creation of Allah, but we can never understand it .
The Rooh/soul is Created, the body is Created, Adam is Created but Allah the Most High is not Created. Hope that clarifies the Islamic stance on this issue.


Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not, etc.) that of which you have no knowledge (e.g. ones saying: ‘I have seen,’ while in fact he has not seen, or ‘I have heard,’ while he has not heard). Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those you will be questioned (by Allah)”
[al-Isra’ 17:36]. "
Regarding the NWO war against the Creator I totally agree and wholeheartedly believe they will lose soundly.
"Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered." (Quran 8:36)

"They desire to extinguish Allah’s Light with their mouths but Allah will perfect His Light, though the disbelievers hate it."
(Surah Saff, verse 8)"

Edit(Add):-

Hon'ble Madame/Sire, you have got to make me believe now that Rumi - wasn't a Muslim!

 

[Daze]

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Hon'ble Madame/Sire, you have got to make me believe now that Rumi - wasn't a Muslim!

Does one man speak for a religion? You'd be hard pressed to find a single Muslim who believes God lives in him. If i was a betting man I'd say out of 2 billion exactly zero Muslims believe God lives inside them. Re-read that. 0 out of 2 billion.

So what does this say about your Rumi quotes? Safe to say he believed very much the same as Islamic belief is largely agreed upon by whatever the majority believes as the Prophet (saw) asked the Creator to never let us unite upon deviance and this dua was granted. Sunni Islam, which is roughly 80% of Muslims, is the correct path based on that dua alone.

The Almighty is over all of us and words are easily taken out of context. Such as the Almighty telling you he is closer to you then your jugular vein. This does not mean that He is literally between your throat and brain. It means he knows you better then you know yourself.

 

[HansConsciousness]

Hi brother Daze

Jalaluddin Rumi was not merely a Muslim he was the finest Persian poet of all time and had bestowed great influence on Muslim writing and culture.

Then there's Al Khidr, Bulleh Shah, Bayazid Bastami, et. al. Muslims as well with an unequivocal projection / understanding.

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Oh well.
I should have known that by opening such a thread I was definitely treading on extremely dangerous grounds.
Awakening is definitely a farfetched utopia. Tribulation is not, so be it, I guess.
I apologise.
I was mistaken.
I will plead @Maes17 to delete this thread altogether.
Please accept my deepest apologies all.
-Your fellow insignificant human being.

 

[HansConsciousness]

@HansConsciousness,


True, but what does "(no fiction = potion for the human mind)" mean? The reason we all die according to the Bible (which is the only truth in this world and tells us where death comes from) is because of sin. The Bible tells us the wages of sin is death. In other words, the cost of our sin is death. Sin entered this world in the Garden of Eden at the very beginning of time.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).

God had told Adam and Eve they could eat from every tree in the garden except for one. He said if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would die. Unfortunately we read in Genesis 3 that Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and shared some of the fruit with her husband, Adam, who also ate it.

The consequences of Adam and Eve’s disobedience took effect immediately. As soon as they ate the fruit, the Bible says their “eyes were opened.” They saw that they were naked and rushed to make garments for themselves out of fig leaves.

God told Adam, "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return” (Genesis 3:17-19).


Jesus is the only Messiah that matters and He is the only that rose from death. Why? Because He is God. The other "messiahs" are still in their graves and will be raised from death by Christ to either eternal life or eternal death. Those messiahs need/needed a Saviour like we all do because they are human like we all are.


Everything was created in this world and universe by God. Only God was not created.


As I pointed out rightly in the other thread, the kingdom of God dwells in only those who choose God, accept Christ as their personal and submit to Him. God is not going to dwell in people who do not want Him. He does not force Himself on anyone.


The problem with you is you mix and match your beliefs. You cannot believe in the God of the Bible then at the same times believe in other gods that contradict Him. No wonder you misinterpret the Bible. You are using the Bible to match your beliefs. God's word is the truth and we should fit in our lives and live by it.

What you're posting here is new age teaching which is a mixture of different teachings from different religions and paganism which are directly opposed to the truth found in the Bible. Here are some teachings from each source:

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These very people you detest are the very ones who teach new age stuff you've posted here. All the satanic secret societies with their disgusting rituals (including paedophilia) believe in new age beliefs which blends together aspects from all religions. Temple terminology, Mithraism, Eastern religions, and modern Christianity are all placed in the context of Babylonian mysteries to create a new religion for the New Age. New Agers are perfectly comfortable with aspects of Christianity, but they believe it is just part of a cycle and will soon pass away. To them, the Age of Pisces was the period of organised religion and of world teachers like Mithra and Jesus Christ, who was merely overshadowed by the spirit of Maitreya. Everything about new age beliefs is distorted, hence It's all satanic. Satan distorts God's Word to suit his agenda which is to lead God's people away from Him eternally.

The Bible is clear we cannot mix and match our beliefs. Either we believe in God and His Word completely or we don't:

"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad" (Matthew 12:30).

"He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" (1 John 5:12).

There is no middle ground for us human beings. We have only two options. We either choose God or Satan, life or death. The Bible doesn’t appear to present any other options for us.

These are the facts, not the fiction you've posted I'm afraid.

I am sorry I can't be bothered with all the proselytizing. But the image that you have inserted is absolutely repugnant, disgusting, appalling, preposterous.
Kindly, I request you, do not, DO NOT put your words in my mouth and/or your thoughts in my head (so that other forum members start to believe those are my words and thoughts, which are actually YOURS!)

 

[phipps]

@ HansConsciousness,

I am sorry I can't be bothered with all the proselytizing. But the image that you have inserted is absolutely repugnant, disgusting, appalling, preposterous.

The Bible tells us, "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching" (2 Timothy 4:2). We have got to preach the truth of God's Word always.

If you find the image I posted, "absolutely repugnant, disgusting, appalling, preposterous" that compares the truth of God's Word to the false teachings of new age teachings then you are on the wrong side. That image shows who is right and who is wrong. Jesus Christ is always right. God expects religious fidelity from His people, and most New Age beliefs and practices (that you posted and espouse) contradict basic Bible teachings, from the state of the dead and vital truths about obedience and grace. God will save those who accept His Son as their Savior, “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me’ ” (John 14:6).

It is absolutely repugnant to mix paganism/satanism with the Word of God just like the repugnant satanists (NWO paedos as you call them) who run this world do. It is idolatry.

All the secret societies whether its the Jesuits, some aspects of protestant Christianity (Ecumenism, World Council of Churches), freemasonry, Knights of Malta, Rosicrucianism, Skull and Bones, United Nations, the Bohemian Club, Knights of Columbus etc all are part of the new age movement and their ultimate agenda is to usurp Jesus Christ.

Kindly, I request you, do not, DO NOT put your words in my mouth and/or your thoughts in my head (so that other forum members start to believe those are my words and thoughts, which are actually YOURS!)

This does not make sense at all. Who has put words in your mouth? And how did I put my thoughts in your head unless you let them in yourself by choice? And can't people see the difference between my posts and yours just by seeing that we have different usernames? No one is going to mistake you for me or vice versa lol!

However they are not my thoughts. Its Bible truth: "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

 

[Alanantic]

In our feeling and experience, via digging within, we may attest to all that you have posted, Sir!


But, in the matrix/existence, we are merely a mortal and finite human body with TheInfinite dwelling within.

There are drugs, ideas, and practices that change that perspective...

"Just as when you are half awake and can see a dream, and know you are dreaming, and yet are apart from it, that is how God feels this universe. On one side he is awake, and on another side he is dreaming this universe. And that is how you should look upon this world. Then you will know why he created it, and will not ascribe these dream conditions to your soul. If you pass through a nightmare, you know that is no more than a bad dream. If you can live in the world in that consciousness, you will not suffer.

You won't mind then, because you will know you are dreaming. Do not pay undue attention to the passing scenes of life. You are the immortal Self (Consciousness) living only temporarily in a dream that is sometimes (imagined) to be a nightmare. That is the higher philosophy (and truth) of the mystics." -- Yogananda

 

[Alanantic]

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Edit(Add):-

Hon'ble Madame/Sire, you have got to make me believe now that Rumi - wasn't a Muslim!

Always have room for Rumi!

 

[Maldarker]

nothing is worse for a man then one that deceives himself

 

[Alanantic]

nothing is worse for a man then one that deceives himself

...says each to the other.

 

[Maes17]

It's recorded in the Bible... and that's a fact.


Your opinion is fiction. L0L

And how do you know if the bible has not been tampered with?

 

[Hubert]

What does not die is that which wasn't created in the first place, i.e. TheInfinite(Field) TheSource Itself. That is within YOU!

Took you three lines to get to fiction. That's almost impressive.

 

[DavidSon]

Hi brother Daze

Jalaluddin Rumi was not merely a Muslim he was the finest Persian poet of all time and had bestowed great influence on Muslim writing and culture.

Then there's Al Khidr, Bulleh Shah, Bayazid Bastami, et. al. Muslims as well with an unequivocal projection / understanding.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh well.
I should have known that by opening such a thread I was definitely treading on extremely dangerous grounds.
Awakening is definitely a farfetched utopia. Tribulation is not, so be it, I guess.
I apologise.
I was mistaken.
I will plead @Maes17 to delete this thread altogether.
Please accept my deepest apologies all.
-Your fellow insignificant human being.

I hope you're just kidding around Good Sir! As we know Maes is powerless to edit the content of the forum. If he wasn't every page would be cars and centerfold models!

Really we shouldn't be sensitive to posts in a public forum, especially on religion. People are bound to stray from the subject as they describe their version of truth. IMO your topic is a good one: the place of facts and rationale in our faith.

I enjoyed the explanation of @DesertRose on the Islamic view of mankind's divinity. In the West I think it's common to throw around phrases like "God is in our hearts" or "God is everywhere" as poetic/uplifting language but it's interesting to contemplate their exact meaning. Obviously they're not accepted everywhere. The Rumi quotes show that he was not an orthodox Muslim but more of a universalist or mystic.

I'd thought of a topic to inquire into others' spiritual views but will bring it up here as I think it relates to some of the comments. Within monism (the belief of a single reality/creator) there are different categories of religious understanding- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism

Pantheism
Pantheism is the belief that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent God, or that the universe (or nature) is identical with divinity. Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal or anthropomorphic god, but believe that interpretations of the term differ.

Panentheism
Panentheism is a belief system that posits that the divine (be it a monotheistic God, polytheistic gods, or an eternal cosmic animating force) interpenetrates every part of nature, but is not one with nature.

Pandeism
Pandeism is a term describing beliefs coherently incorporating or mixing logically reconcilable elements of pantheism and classical deism (that the creator-god who designed the universe no longer exists in a status where it can be reached, and can instead be confirmed only by reason). It is therefore most particularly the belief that the creator of the universe actually became the universe, and so ceased to exist as a separate entity.

Where do you or the traditional religions rest within these definitions? My consciousness moves between pantheism and panentheism, times where I feel that God, the All is not just in everything but IS everything.

Staying with the OP, facts and reality are the most beautiful thing, a great source of faith. Legends may pass but our essential nature will never change. Male and female, the movement of seasons, birth and death- the cycles of life are the greatest wonder and evidence to me of the Supreme One.

 

[DesertRose]

Hon'ble Madame/Sire, ............

Thank you and May the Creator guide and honour you. I am Not a Sire but very much a Madame.
I agree with brother @DavidSon you should not close down this thread, however, if you do get it closed, thanks anyway.
I thought you might find this talk interesting, for informational purposes. The Journey's soul according to Islam.
Brother or sister @akay just posted on this topic in his thread.

 

[VigilantCitizen]

Locked at OP's request.