RAMADAN Join Us On this Journey

[DesertRose]

Life Changing Ramadan Reminder by: Majed Mahmoud

 

[Lizard King]

Just curious I noticed if you drop the N off Ramadan you have Ramada as in Ramada Inn the famous hotel chain. I know Hindus run a lot of hotels but do Muslims too?

 

[A Freeman]

Excerpts below from: http://rrimedia.org/Worldviews/Islam/Pillars-of-Islam/ramadan-and-its-roots --

Ramadan has Pagan Roots in India and the Middle East

Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappearedhttp://rrimedia.org/Worldviews/Islam/Pillars-of-Islam/ramadan-and-its-roots#_edn1[1]...

...Ramadan was a pagan ceremony practiced by the Sabians, whether they were Harranians or Sabians. From the writings of Abu Zanad, an Arabic writer from Iraq who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one Mandaean community located in northern Iraq observed Ramadan[ii][2].

Ramadan was Originally an Annual Ritual Performed at the City of Harran. Similarities Between the Ramadan of Harran and the Islamic Ramadan...

...Ramadan was known and practiced by the pagan Arabians before Islam. Al-Masudi says that Ramadan received its name because of the warm weather during that month.[xi][11]...


From: Peter Townsend's The Mecca Mystery: Probing the Black Hole at the Heart of Muslim History --

9.5. Conclusion: What if the ‘Full Light of History’ is a Mirage?

We have, in a sense, come full circle. I started this book with a discussion of the importance of history to orthodox Islam. I then proceeded over the subsequent chapters to show how the traditional account of Islamic origins simply cannot survive historical scrutiny. Some readers may respond to this question by asking: Does it really matter? Is there not some kernel of truth at the heart of Islam that may be salvaged even if it is not possible to confirm every aspect of its history?

The best answer to this question is perhaps given by Muslim believers themselves. So much of their self-understanding, not to mention practices and beliefs, are shaped by the generally accepted version of Islamic history. If it were not for the traditions and biographies associated with Muhammad, Muslims would not have the Shahada (confession of faith) or the five daily prayers. They would, furthermore, not know how to go on pilgrimage, how to keep the Ramadan fast or how to give alms. In short, something as foundational and basic as the so-called ‘Five Pillars of Islam’ rests firmly, not on the Qur’an, but on the historical tradition.

God, through His Prophet Isaiah, 3000 years ago prophesied the following:

Isaiah 1:13-18
1:13 Bring no more worthless oblations; incense is an abomination unto Me; the new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot abide; [it is] grief, even the solemn meeting.
1:14 Your new moons and your appointed f(e)asts My soul hateth: they are a trouble unto Me; I am weary to bear [them].
1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the "I AM": though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Christ (the Messiah)-Jesus (son of Mary), in the Gospel of Jesus as recorded by Matthew warned 2000 years ago about mixing the traditions of men with the Word of God:

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?

Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the Commandment of God of none effect by your Tradition (Talmud, Catechism, Hadith, etc.).

The Koran/Quran, warned us over 1000 years ago to turn to The Torah (The Law) for the Commandments of God concerning His appointed f(e)asts (fasts).

Sura 6:154-155
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book (Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):

Sura 7:157. "Those who follow The Apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures - the Bible),- in The Law (Torah) and the Gospel (New Testament - Covenant);- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); he releases them from their heavy burdens (Matthew 23:1-4) and from the yokes that are upon them (Matt. 11:28-30). So it is those who believe him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper (King of kings' Bible - John 8:3, KJV John 8:12)."

Sura 11:17. Can they be (like) those who accept a Clear (Sign) from their Lord, and whom a witness from Himself doth teach, as did the Book of Moses (the Torah) before it,- a guide and a mercy? They believe therein but those of the Sects that reject it,- the Fire will be their promised meeting-place. BE NOT THEN IN DOUBT THEREON: FOR IT IS THE TRUTH FROM THY LORD: YET MANY AMONG MEN DO NOT BELIEVE*!

Sura 46:12. And before this, was the Book of Moses (Torah) as a guide and a mercy: and this Book CONFIRMS (it - the Torah) in the Arabian tongue; to warn the unjust, and as Good News to those who do right.

If you want to learn from God how to do His Will, so the angel of death will PASSOVER you on Judgment Day, then read, study, learn and follow His Law, found only in the first five books of the Bible, and learn to follow THE Example (Sura 3:55) of the Unlettered Prophet (Jesus -- as recorded in the Gospel of Jesus according to John 7:15-16).

Peace be upon you.

 

[Daze]

Very interesting to me how many people here just love to attack Islam at every opportunity, but say nothing about clearly pagan ideologies, like Hinduism which involves worship of statues and consumption of animal waste. Seriously, have you noticed no one here mentions Buddhism, Taoism, not even atheism. But Islam? Wow, the trolls come out of the woodwork. Even in a thread meant to be a celebration the devil has to give his 2 cents as if anyone cared.

Something bout Islam drives people to attack it. Wonder what it is? As i often say the devil only has one enemy.

Like it or not there is only one faith on the planet that still condemns interest, feminism and homosexuality.. which makes it a prime target in our modern world as the devil invites to these evils at every opportunity.

Islam condemns racism which i see everywhere, even amongst self proclaimed followers of Jesus.
Islam condemns the wealthy accumulating all of the wealth while today .01% own more then 50% of the planets wealth.
Islam condemns nationalism while today many are at one another throats from imaginary lines drawn on a map.
Islam condemns gambling, where wealth is only acquired at the expense of another.
Islam condemns the use alcohol which often leads to domestic abuse and r*pe.

You can't go 20 feet here in America without seeing a half naked woman. Please tell me why covering ones hair is literally a crime in some countries?

Please tell me why a woman needs to put a career first and forget about having a family until she is in her 30's? But sleep around all you want, we got pills for that.

Please tell me why Its a crime for a 15 yr old boy to marry a 15 year old girl but its perfectly normal for 19, 20 year olds to fornicate in college?

Isn't it funny how Islam is seen as "backwards" today? When its literally the cure for so many western diseases. Such as 10's of 1000's not knowing who their own father is today.

Is it no wonder so many would give their right arm to paint Islam in a negative light?

Is it no wonder we constantly see Islam a target in one way or another? Its just a constant onslaught. "Child marriage, Oppressed women, beheadings". Negative press after negative press after negative press. Its like the media has nothing else to do. Surely you've seen the hypocrisy
here recently in Ukraine where suicide bombers are actually praised in the media because they are white? I don't know what turns my stomach more. The inept corrupt media or those who actually believe the garbage they constantly churn out.


Anyone with a pure heart looking for truth will find it. The Almighty will see to it. Yet the devil knows his time is running out and is constantly reaching. While some people here enjoy spitting at the moon, actually believing they could ever tarnish it. When i see ignorant posts like the one above thats what i see. Some lonely soul standing in a field spitting up at the moon saying.. "take that". Amazing is what it is.

What can you do for those God has lead astray? Absolutely nothing. All we can do is ask the Almighty to not make us one of them.

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ
صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ

Amen.

 

[Sibi]

Very interesting to me how many people here just love to attack Islam at every opportunity, but say nothing about clearly pagan ideologies, like Hinduism which involves worship of statues and consumption of animal waste. Seriously, have you noticed no one here mentions Buddhism, Taoism, not even atheism. But Islam? Wow, the trolls come out of the woodwork. Even in a thread meant to be a celebration the devil has to give his 2 cents as if anyone cared.

Something bout Islam drives people to attack it. Wonder what it is? As i often say the devil only has one enemy.

Like it or not there is only one faith on the planet that still condemns interest, feminism and homosexuality.. which makes it a prime target in our modern world as the devil invites to these evils at every opportunity.

Islam condemns racism which i see everywhere, even amongst self proclaimed followers of Jesus.
Islam condemns the wealthy accumulating all of the wealth while today .01% own more then 50% of the planets wealth.
Islam condemns nationalism while today many are at one another throats from imaginary lines drawn on a map.
Islam condemns gambling, where wealth is only acquired at the expense of another.
Islam condemns the use alcohol which often leads to domestic abuse and r*pe.

You can't go 20 feet here in America without seeing a half naked woman. Please tell me why covering ones hair is literally a crime in some countries?

Please tell me why a woman needs to put a career first and forget about having a family until she is in her 30's? But sleep around all you want, we got pills for that.

Please tell me why Its a crime for a 15 yr old boy to marry a 15 year old girl but its perfectly normal for 19, 20 year olds to fornicate in college?

Isn't it funny how Islam is seen as "backwards" today? When its literally the cure for so many western diseases. Such as 10's of 1000's not knowing who their own father is today.

Is it no wonder so many would give their right arm to paint Islam in a negative light?

Is it no wonder we constantly see Islam a target in one way or another? Its just a constant onslaught. "Child marriage, Oppressed women, beheadings". Negative press after negative press after negative press. Its like the media has nothing else to do. Surely you've seen the hypocrisy
here recently in Ukraine where suicide bombers are actually praised in the media because they are white? I don't know what turns my stomach more. The inept corrupt media or those who actually believe the garbage they constantly churn out.


Anyone with a pure heart looking for truth will find it. The Almighty will see to it. Yet the devil knows his time is running out and is constantly reaching. While some people here enjoy spitting at the moon, actually believing they could ever tarnish it. When i see ignorant posts like the one above thats what i see. Some lonely soul standing in a field spitting up at the moon saying.. "take that". Amazing is what it is.

What can you do for those God has lead astray? Absolutely nothing. All we can do is ask the Almighty to not make us one of them.

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ
صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ

Amen.

Mention Jews or Judaism and NO ONE is open minded.

 

[Daze]

Mention Jews or Judaism and NO ONE is open minded.

I don't have a problem with either. I've actually sourced rabbi videos on these forums, such as Rabbi Tovia Singer.

I am very much anti-zionist but not every Jew is a zionist. There are actually Jews who outright reject zionism.
For the most part zionist Jews are secular Jews. Those who deny God outright.

Have you ever heard of a secular Christian? Ya, me either, but somehow secular Jews and secular Muslims are a thing. Believe it or not there are actually zionist Muslims just like there are zionist Christians. Ignorant on 2 fronts yes? While the Talmud says Jesus is boiling in excrement Muslims in Palestine are living in a modern day concentration camp under Israeli oppression.


I don't have a problem with those who worship the God of Abraham, i have a problem with those people who say "god gave me this land", then proceed to stick a gun in your mouth.

Regardless I've never seen Judaism attacked here. Certainly no where along the lines Islam is. I mean look at this thread, about Ramadan and some people actually have the gall to attack it? The same users who already have multiple threads attacking Islam? Its like they can't get enough of enslaving themselves to the devil.

Anyway.. Perhaps you could point some of these anti-Judaism posts out? Alas i don't see it.

 

[recure]

Wait, so the boomer who created "The Truine God and paganism" and "Origins of Easter and paganism" threads and keeps reminding people of it (e.g here, here, here and here), is going on a cringe rant complaining because someone called Ramadan pagan? Typical hypocrite behavior.

 

[DesertRose]

........JUST ONE MORE RAMADAN!

True Emotional Islamic Stories (COMPILATION)

 

[Sibi]

I don't have a problem with either. I've actually sourced rabbi videos on these forums, such as Rabbi Tovia Singer.

I am very much anti-zionist but not every Jew is a zionist. There are actually Jews who outright reject zionism.
For the most part zionist Jews are secular Jews. Those who deny God outright.

Have you ever heard of a secular Christian? Ya, me either, but somehow secular Jews and secular Muslims are a thing. Believe it or not there are actually zionist Muslims just like there are zionist Christians. Ignorant on 2 fronts yes? While the Talmud says Jesus is boiling in excrement Muslims in Palestine are living in a modern day concentration camp under Israeli oppression.


I don't have a problem with those who worship the God of Abraham, i have a problem with those people who say "god gave me this land", then proceed to stick a gun in your mouth.

Regardless I've never seen Judaism attacked here. Certainly no where along the lines Islam is. I mean look at this thread, about Ramadan and some people actually have the gall to attack it? The same users who already have multiple threads attacking Islam? Its like they can't get enough of enslaving themselves to the devil.

Anyway.. Perhaps you could point some of these anti-Judaism posts out? Alas i don't see it.

That's rich coming from you Daze. This forum and you are very anti-Jew.

 

[Daze]

That's rich coming from you Daze. This forum and you are very anti-Jew.

Nah, you just don't see a difference between Jews and Zionists.






There are honestly alot of good Jews out there. Such as those at Jewish voice for peace (JVP).

What is BDS? – Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions

JVP endorses the call from Palestinian civil society for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) as part of our work for freedom, justice and equality.

www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Or individual Jews who speak against Israel such as David Sheen and Norman Finkelstein.


As i said above, i don't have a problem with those who serve the god of Abraham, alone, without partners. My gripes are with those who say they do, then go on to r*pe, murder and steal. Such as this "Jew"

Does this foul mouth look like a God fearing individual to you?

I'd be amiss if i didn't point out the fact that you have not sourced a single post here that is "anti Jew". Yet you claim the entire forum is? Sounds like victim mentality to me.

 

[Daze]

@Sibi Why is that funny to you?

Is it also funny when that "jew" says..







Why don't you watch that video? Its only 2 minutes. Those are the "Jews" in Israel.

We all know i have brought nothing but facts (with links to back them up) while you've brought nothing but a laugh emoji?

Why can't you produce a single post here that is anti Jew? Because we all know it doesn't exist.

If you want to support "Jews" Like Sarah Silverman.. more power to you.






But i will never equate a clear follower of satan to a follower of the prophet Moses.

 

[Sibi]

Why is anti-Zionism anti-Semitic?
There are three principal reasons why anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic.

Firstly, anti-Zionism is the position that the Jewish people should be dispossessed, against their will, of a fundamental right that they currently enjoy: namely, the right of self-determination. Whatever one believes about whether the Jewish people had a moral right to self-determine in 1948, this right is now a fact of international law, which states that “all peoples have the right freely to [self-]determine”, recognises that the Jewish people constitute a people and, although the law does not require self-determination to be manifested through political independence (of which more anon), accepts that the creation of the State of Israel was the valid manifestation of this right.

Anti-Zionists may claim that the international community was wrong to grant Jews a legal right that had no moral basis, but anti-Zionism today is the demand that Jewish people should be deprived of their internationally recognised legal right to self-determine, and that Jews worldwide should be divested of a right that they already lawfully possess as Jews.

Anti-Zionists may argue that Zionism has deprived the Palestinians of their political rights, and self-determination exercised in a repressive form has neither legal nor moral basis: Israel is a racist regime, and has no more right to exist than did the white supremacist Apartheid regime in South Africa. The fine distinction, however, is between those who seek justice by accommodating Jewish and Palestinian claims for self-determination through a pragmatic partition of the land, helpfully suggesting adjustments to bring the practice of Jewish self-determination closer to liberal ideals, and between those who believe that justice can only be attained if the rights of one community are allowed to override those of another: fiat justitia, ruat caelum, as the old saying goes.

The selective deprival of fundamental rights is the essence of discrimination. There is simply no conceivable sense in which attempts to retroactively strip Jews, and only Jews, of fundamental rights can be anything other than anti-Semitic.

Secondly, anti-Zionism is a stance that necessarily fails to treat Jews as political equals. It is the insistence that Jews should return to being permanent minorities, restored to an irreversibly weaker and more vulnerable position vis-à-vis other groups. It is the demand that Jews, and only Jews, should be forcibly subordinated against their will to other majorities, having already been given their freedom.

Anti-Zionism may be accompanied by a caveat that Jews should have full and equal civil rights wherever they live, but this operates against the implicit understanding that the majority will determine the cultural fabric of the state: the flag, the anthem and its dominant values. In denying Israel’s legitimacy, anti-Zionists tell Jews that they wish to treat them as equals, but only on their terms. Jews have rights only as individuals, but not as a collective. For those anti-Zionists who are members of national majorities in their respective states, the claim is that while they may enjoy individual and collective rights, Jews may only entertain the former.

There is no way that this assertion of political supremacy over Jews can fail to constitute anti-Semitism.

Thirdly, and most gravely, anti-Zionism is complacent with exposing Jews to dangers for which the anti-Zionists have no answer. Zionism was first conceived as an answer to the Jewish Question: the controversy around the political status of Jews as an anomalous, transnational, religious-cum-national minority. Zionism is, at its core, the belief that self-determination in Israel is the answer to this Jewish Question and to millennia of persecution. Anti-Zionism not only rejects as irrelevant Jews’ desires for the determination of their own fate, but crucially fails to articulate a better alternative.

Where do you want the Jews to go, then?
Anti-Zionists are simply not bothered with formulating an answer to the Jewish Question that takes into account the agency, aspirations or basic security of Jews who either live in Israel or depend on it as a safe haven. They implicitly recognise that if Israel were to disappear, Jews would face a problem as Jews, but this is none of their concern. Anti-Zionists may promise that Jews will be safe as minorities in other countries, but Israel exists precisely because Jews learnt that they could never trust these promises. The anti-Zionists’ insensitivity to Jewish existential fears is, ironically, part of the problem that Zionism is meant to address!

Anti-Zionism logically requires that anti-Semitism – an acute problem for vulnerable Jewish minorities – will have to be solved in a context in which Jews are once more vulnerable minorities. If Israel were forced to swallow a one-state solution, it would have an Arab majority either immediately or very shortly after. Those who chant, with venom in their eyes, that from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free, either simply presume that Jews would be safe as Jews in such a state, or they just do not care.

If Israel were to cease to exist, the question of how to protect Jews from anti-Semitism the day after is not the anti-Zionists’ problem. The outburst of late White House correspondent Helen Thomas that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and “go home” to Germany or Poland, is just one such example.

In a post-Israel world, anti-Semitism would continue. Anti-Zionists refuse to elaborate a vision of how this should be combatted, while rejecting point blank the Jewish people’s preferred solution to anti-Semitism: self-determination in Israel. Anti-Zionists are content to throw Jews under a bus, and only then turn their attention to how to stop the bus running them over.

This callous insensitivity to Jews’ concerns for their own basic security as Jews, given the dangers they would face in a post-Israel world as Jews, and the willingness to put Jews in this precarious position, is unambiguously anti-Semitic.

 

[Sibi]

"Judgment Day will come only when the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind the tree and the stone, and the tree and the stone say: ‘Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah , there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him! Only the Gharqad tree will not say because it is the tree of Jews.” (Muslim, Fitan, 82)

 

[Daze]

Why is anti-Zionism anti-Semitic?
There are three principal reasons why anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic.

Firstly, anti-Zionism is the position that the Jewish people should be dispossessed, against their will, of a fundamental right that they currently enjoy: namely, the right of self-determination. Whatever one believes about whether the Jewish people had a moral right to self-determine in 1948, this right is now a fact of international law, which states that “all peoples have the right freely to [self-]determine”, recognises that the Jewish people constitute a people and, although the law does not require self-determination to be manifested through political independence (of which more anon), accepts that the creation of the State of Israel was the valid manifestation of this right.

Anti-Zionists may claim that the international community was wrong to grant Jews a legal right that had no moral basis, but anti-Zionism today is the demand that Jewish people should be deprived of their internationally recognised legal right to self-determine, and that Jews worldwide should be divested of a right that they already lawfully possess as Jews.

Anti-Zionists may argue that Zionism has deprived the Palestinians of their political rights, and self-determination exercised in a repressive form has neither legal nor moral basis: Israel is a racist regime, and has no more right to exist than did the white supremacist Apartheid regime in South Africa. The fine distinction, however, is between those who seek justice by accommodating Jewish and Palestinian claims for self-determination through a pragmatic partition of the land, helpfully suggesting adjustments to bring the practice of Jewish self-determination closer to liberal ideals, and between those who believe that justice can only be attained if the rights of one community are allowed to override those of another: fiat justitia, ruat caelum, as the old saying goes.

The selective deprival of fundamental rights is the essence of discrimination. There is simply no conceivable sense in which attempts to retroactively strip Jews, and only Jews, of fundamental rights can be anything other than anti-Semitic.

Secondly, anti-Zionism is a stance that necessarily fails to treat Jews as political equals. It is the insistence that Jews should return to being permanent minorities, restored to an irreversibly weaker and more vulnerable position vis-à-vis other groups. It is the demand that Jews, and only Jews, should be forcibly subordinated against their will to other majorities, having already been given their freedom.

Anti-Zionism may be accompanied by a caveat that Jews should have full and equal civil rights wherever they live, but this operates against the implicit understanding that the majority will determine the cultural fabric of the state: the flag, the anthem and its dominant values. In denying Israel’s legitimacy, anti-Zionists tell Jews that they wish to treat them as equals, but only on their terms. Jews have rights only as individuals, but not as a collective. For those anti-Zionists who are members of national majorities in their respective states, the claim is that while they may enjoy individual and collective rights, Jews may only entertain the former.

There is no way that this assertion of political supremacy over Jews can fail to constitute anti-Semitism.

Thirdly, and most gravely, anti-Zionism is complacent with exposing Jews to dangers for which the anti-Zionists have no answer. Zionism was first conceived as an answer to the Jewish Question: the controversy around the political status of Jews as an anomalous, transnational, religious-cum-national minority. Zionism is, at its core, the belief that self-determination in Israel is the answer to this Jewish Question and to millennia of persecution. Anti-Zionism not only rejects as irrelevant Jews’ desires for the determination of their own fate, but crucially fails to articulate a better alternative.

Where do you want the Jews to go, then?
Anti-Zionists are simply not bothered with formulating an answer to the Jewish Question that takes into account the agency, aspirations or basic security of Jews who either live in Israel or depend on it as a safe haven. They implicitly recognise that if Israel were to disappear, Jews would face a problem as Jews, but this is none of their concern. Anti-Zionists may promise that Jews will be safe as minorities in other countries, but Israel exists precisely because Jews learnt that they could never trust these promises. The anti-Zionists’ insensitivity to Jewish existential fears is, ironically, part of the problem that Zionism is meant to address!

Anti-Zionism logically requires that anti-Semitism – an acute problem for vulnerable Jewish minorities – will have to be solved in a context in which Jews are once more vulnerable minorities. If Israel were forced to swallow a one-state solution, it would have an Arab majority either immediately or very shortly after. Those who chant, with venom in their eyes, that from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free, either simply presume that Jews would be safe as Jews in such a state, or they just do not care.

If Israel were to cease to exist, the question of how to protect Jews from anti-Semitism the day after is not the anti-Zionists’ problem. The outburst of late White House correspondent Helen Thomas that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and “go home” to Germany or Poland, is just one such example.

In a post-Israel world, anti-Semitism would continue. Anti-Zionists refuse to elaborate a vision of how this should be combatted, while rejecting point blank the Jewish people’s preferred solution to anti-Semitism: self-determination in Israel. Anti-Zionists are content to throw Jews under a bus, and only then turn their attention to how to stop the bus running them over.

This callous insensitivity to Jews’ concerns for their own basic security as Jews, given the dangers they would face in a post-Israel world as Jews, and the willingness to put Jews in this precarious position, is unambiguously anti-Semitic.

Looks like a copy paste job to be honest.

Did you know a Semite is one who speaks an Aramaic language? yes, Hebrew is Aramaic, guess what else is. Arabic! Tell us, why its not anti-semetic to shoot Palestinian kids playing on a beach for target practice?


Btw, respond to my top post, because lets be clear. Zionists are who you are defending.

 

[Sibi]

Looks like a copy paste job to be honest.

Did you know a Semite is one who speaks an Aramaic language? yes, Hebrew is Aramaic, guess what else is. Arabic! Tell us, why its not anti-semetic to shoot Palestinian kids playing on a beach for target practice?
View attachment 73213

Btw, respond to my top post, because lets be clear. Zionists are who you are defending.

I am not defending Zionists at all. I am defending Jews. Anti-Zionism = Anti-Jew. You are arguing semantics like it matters what is called what. Jews that live in Israel have as much right to live as an Arab who lives there. What are Israeli Jews supposed to do?

Explain this - Pay for Slay. The PA pays "martyrs" / terrorists for each Jewish life they kill.

It is a copy and paste job Here is another one:

Among the propaganda assaults on Israel and the Jewish people is one that may seek to dilute the meaning of “anti-Semitism.” During the past year, say Jewish activists and academics, the Arab and Muslim worlds have intensified efforts to broaden the definition to encompass “Semitic” peoples like themselves, and to reject any charges of anti-Semitism — whether it be through Holocaust denial, blood libels, or Israelis-as-Nazis comparisons — with the mantra: “How could we be anti-Semitic when we, too, are Semitic?” “It´s not only anti-Semitic, then, it´s also anti-semantic.​

​

Anti-Semitism is a phenomenon that has a unique meaning,” Rabbi Michael Melchior, Israel´s deputy foreign minister, says. “I´m also against anti-Islamaphobia and anti-Arab discrimination, but don´t fight prejudice with a semantic debate.” In the printed version of Melchior´s recent speech to the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, “antisemitism” was spelled as one word, — with no hyphen and a lower-case “s.” Likewise, many academics have adopted “antisemitism.” Says Holocaust historian Michael Berenbaum: “One of the reasons that many of us pushed for ‘antisemitism´ is because there is nothing literally known as ‘Semitism´ ” — which the term anti-Semitism implies. As the American Jewish Committee, which uses both terms, notes on its Web site, “The term ‘antisemitism´ has never referred to a hatred of so-called ‘Semites,´ which actually designates speakers of a group of languages, including Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Babylonian, Assyrian and Ethiopic. Rather, the term ‘antisemitism´ is directed at the Jews; it is a modern linguistic formulation for Jew-hatred.”​

 

[Stucky]

Why is anti-Zionism anti-Semitic?
There are three principal reasons why anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic.

Firstly, anti-Zionism is the position that the Jewish people should be dispossessed, against their will, of a fundamental right that they currently enjoy: namely, the right of self-determination. Whatever one believes about whether the Jewish people had a moral right to self-determine in 1948, this right is now a fact of international law, which states that “all peoples have the right freely to [self-]determine”, recognises that the Jewish people constitute a people and, although the law does not require self-determination to be manifested through political independence (of which more anon), accepts that the creation of the State of Israel was the valid manifestation of this right.

Anti-Zionists may claim that the international community was wrong to grant Jews a legal right that had no moral basis, but anti-Zionism today is the demand that Jewish people should be deprived of their internationally recognised legal right to self-determine, and that Jews worldwide should be divested of a right that they already lawfully possess as Jews.

Anti-Zionists may argue that Zionism has deprived the Palestinians of their political rights, and self-determination exercised in a repressive form has neither legal nor moral basis: Israel is a racist regime, and has no more right to exist than did the white supremacist Apartheid regime in South Africa. The fine distinction, however, is between those who seek justice by accommodating Jewish and Palestinian claims for self-determination through a pragmatic partition of the land, helpfully suggesting adjustments to bring the practice of Jewish self-determination closer to liberal ideals, and between those who believe that justice can only be attained if the rights of one community are allowed to override those of another: fiat justitia, ruat caelum, as the old saying goes.

The selective deprival of fundamental rights is the essence of discrimination. There is simply no conceivable sense in which attempts to retroactively strip Jews, and only Jews, of fundamental rights can be anything other than anti-Semitic.

Secondly, anti-Zionism is a stance that necessarily fails to treat Jews as political equals. It is the insistence that Jews should return to being permanent minorities, restored to an irreversibly weaker and more vulnerable position vis-à-vis other groups. It is the demand that Jews, and only Jews, should be forcibly subordinated against their will to other majorities, having already been given their freedom.

Anti-Zionism may be accompanied by a caveat that Jews should have full and equal civil rights wherever they live, but this operates against the implicit understanding that the majority will determine the cultural fabric of the state: the flag, the anthem and its dominant values. In denying Israel’s legitimacy, anti-Zionists tell Jews that they wish to treat them as equals, but only on their terms. Jews have rights only as individuals, but not as a collective. For those anti-Zionists who are members of national majorities in their respective states, the claim is that while they may enjoy individual and collective rights, Jews may only entertain the former.

There is no way that this assertion of political supremacy over Jews can fail to constitute anti-Semitism.

Thirdly, and most gravely, anti-Zionism is complacent with exposing Jews to dangers for which the anti-Zionists have no answer. Zionism was first conceived as an answer to the Jewish Question: the controversy around the political status of Jews as an anomalous, transnational, religious-cum-national minority. Zionism is, at its core, the belief that self-determination in Israel is the answer to this Jewish Question and to millennia of persecution. Anti-Zionism not only rejects as irrelevant Jews’ desires for the determination of their own fate, but crucially fails to articulate a better alternative.

Where do you want the Jews to go, then?
Anti-Zionists are simply not bothered with formulating an answer to the Jewish Question that takes into account the agency, aspirations or basic security of Jews who either live in Israel or depend on it as a safe haven. They implicitly recognise that if Israel were to disappear, Jews would face a problem as Jews, but this is none of their concern. Anti-Zionists may promise that Jews will be safe as minorities in other countries, but Israel exists precisely because Jews learnt that they could never trust these promises. The anti-Zionists’ insensitivity to Jewish existential fears is, ironically, part of the problem that Zionism is meant to address!

Anti-Zionism logically requires that anti-Semitism – an acute problem for vulnerable Jewish minorities – will have to be solved in a context in which Jews are once more vulnerable minorities. If Israel were forced to swallow a one-state solution, it would have an Arab majority either immediately or very shortly after. Those who chant, with venom in their eyes, that from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free, either simply presume that Jews would be safe as Jews in such a state, or they just do not care.

If Israel were to cease to exist, the question of how to protect Jews from anti-Semitism the day after is not the anti-Zionists’ problem. The outburst of late White House correspondent Helen Thomas that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and “go home” to Germany or Poland, is just one such example.

In a post-Israel world, anti-Semitism would continue. Anti-Zionists refuse to elaborate a vision of how this should be combatted, while rejecting point blank the Jewish people’s preferred solution to anti-Semitism: self-determination in Israel. Anti-Zionists are content to throw Jews under a bus, and only then turn their attention to how to stop the bus running them over.

This callous insensitivity to Jews’ concerns for their own basic security as Jews, given the dangers they would face in a post-Israel world as Jews, and the willingness to put Jews in this precarious position, is unambiguously anti-Semitic.

C'mon, this thread is about Ramadan. If you want to write about zionism and or anti semitism start a thread.

 

[Daze]

I am not defending Zionists at all. I am defending Jews. Anti-Zionism = Anti-Jew. You are arguing semantics like it matters what is called what. Jews that live in Israel have as much right to live as an Arab who lives there. What are Israeli Jews supposed to do?

Explain this - Pay for Slay. The PA pays "martyrs" / terrorists for each Jewish life they kill.

It is a copy and paste job Here is another one:

Among the propaganda assaults on Israel and the Jewish people is one that may seek to dilute the meaning of “anti-Semitism.” During the past year, say Jewish activists and academics, the Arab and Muslim worlds have intensified efforts to broaden the definition to encompass “Semitic” peoples like themselves, and to reject any charges of anti-Semitism — whether it be through Holocaust denial, blood libels, or Israelis-as-Nazis comparisons — with the mantra: “How could we be anti-Semitic when we, too, are Semitic?” “It´s not only anti-Semitic, then, it´s also anti-semantic.​

​

Anti-Semitism is a phenomenon that has a unique meaning,” Rabbi Michael Melchior, Israel´s deputy foreign minister, says. “I´m also against anti-Islamaphobia and anti-Arab discrimination, but don´t fight prejudice with a semantic debate.” In the printed version of Melchior´s recent speech to the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, “antisemitism” was spelled as one word, — with no hyphen and a lower-case “s.” Likewise, many academics have adopted “antisemitism.” Says Holocaust historian Michael Berenbaum: “One of the reasons that many of us pushed for ‘antisemitism´ is because there is nothing literally known as ‘Semitism´ ” — which the term anti-Semitism implies. As the American Jewish Committee, which uses both terms, notes on its Web site, “The term ‘antisemitism´ has never referred to a hatred of so-called ‘Semites,´ which actually designates speakers of a group of languages, including Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Babylonian, Assyrian and Ethiopic. Rather, the term ‘antisemitism´ is directed at the Jews; it is a modern linguistic formulation for Jew-hatred.”​

Nah, your defending Zionism as I've already given proof Orthodox Jews reject Zionism. Would you like more images? There are honestly 100's.

Then you give us the "anti semetic" tripe when my main problem with Zionists is there oppression, r*pe and Murder of SEMETIC people.
Here's an interesting video.

I mean its a tired line that we've heard for 2 decades now. Why do you use it? Because its all you have.


I do like your sharing of Islamic prophecy however. Yes, in the end Muslims will rid the holy lands of the Khazars. Those people who openly admit to being 70% atheist. Hence the "secular Jew".

God knows best if we'll see it in our lifetime. But its very interesting how the Jews are constantly uprooting and destroying olive trees in Palestine while planting lots of gharqad trees. Funny, looks like they believe in the prophecy too?

Look, say whatever you want. We can all see you're defending baby murders.

 

[Daze]

C'mon, this thread is about Ramadan. If you want to write about zionism and or anti semitism start a thread.

Your right and my apologies as I'm only contributing to the derail. I'm simply trying to make it abundantly clear Zionism is a political movement while a Jew is literally a follower of Moses, a god fearing individual. 1 and 1 does not equate 3.

Regardless I've given fuel to the fire and will bow out.

 

[Sibi]

Nah, your defending Zionism as I've already given proof Orthodox Jews reject Zionism. Would you like more images? There are honestly 100's.

Then you give us the "anti semetic" tripe when my main problem with Zionists is there oppression, r*pe and Murder of SEMETIC people.
Here's an interesting video.

I mean its a tired line that we've heard for 2 decades now. Why do you use it? Because its all you have.

How about when semetic people attack others? I do not support "martyrs" which is who you are defending.

I do like your sharing of Islamic prophecy however. Yes, in the end Muslims will rid the holy lands of the Khazars. Those people who openly admit to being 70% atheist. Hence the "secular Jew".

What are the Jews that already live there supposed to do? Hmm? Oh, Muslims will kill them all. The religion of peace. Thank you Daze for proving my point.

God knows best if we'll see it in our lifetime. But its very interesting how the Jews are constantly uprooting and destroying olive trees in Palestine while planting lots of gharqad trees. Funny, looks like they believe in the prophecy too?

Funny how Arabs destroy historical artifacts that link Jews to Israel. Name one ruler of Palestine.

Look, say whatever you want. We can all see you're defending baby murders.

You are projecting.

 

[DesertRose]