R&deism: What If We're God's Experiment?

[Aero]

What do I make of it? I think it's an interesting dual concept. To be like Gods, but to also be like an ant. And that's life, it's natural. It doesn't make you a cultist to have these sorts of questions.

 

[Lady]

@Mr. Blah

...Uh-huh...

 

[Lady]

@Aero
A video from a woman putting out very controversial videos, yet this 3-year-old one contains some truths with which I agree.

 

[grateful servant]

Jesus did make a strange comment to some Pharisees that may be relevant. What do you make of the following passage?
John 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

After reading your post I thought to myself, "Well here is Jesus saying the same thing that Muslims say - 'son of God' is not to be taken in a literal sense. " How do you understand these verses Lady?

 

[Aero]

Well it's true they do want people afraid. They want people curled up in the fetal positions, sucking their thumbs. So some hero has to come get their ass up off the floor. And it sucks having to be that hero. Because someone else gets all the credit.

 

[Lady]

What do I make of it? I think it's an interesting dual concept. To be like Gods, but to also be like an ant. And that's life, it's natural. It doesn't make you a cultist to have these sorts of questions.

This is the simple truth: Be reconciled to God through the method He provided-which is Jesus Christ the LORD.
Romans 8:9-
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Key Word: Reconciled
Were we once "with" the Father?

 

[Lady]

What do I make of it? I think it's an interesting dual concept. To be like Gods, but to also be like an ant. And that's life, it's natural. It doesn't make you a cultist to have these sorts of questions.

No, we need to ask these questions of the scriptures. It is through the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) that we will be led to answers.
We have to make sure that we have the Holy Spirit...

 

[Lady]

After reading your post I thought to myself, "Well here is Jesus saying the same thing that Muslims say - 'son of God' is not to be taken in a literal sense. " How do you understand these verses Lady?

I understand that the Pharisees once again were blinded and had the wrong ideas about this Man to whom they were speaking.
They thought Jesus was mere human while proclaiming Himself to be God. In reality, He is God, who at that time, incarnated as man. They did not see...blinded by the god of this world, whom they served.
(excerpt)
Jesus Clearly Reveals Both His True Identity and His Opponents' Identity
John 8:31-59
As always in this Gospel, the focus comes back to Jesus' own identity: Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed (vv. 35-36). Jesus clearly contrasts his status in the family of God with that of the rest of humanity, which is enslaved to sin. Given this unique status he is the one who has freedom in God's household and is able to offer it to others. Only God can liberate us from sin, yet here Jesus says that he, the Son, can do so. Once again we see the implied claim regarding his unique oneness with the Father (cf. Chrysostom In John 54.2).

After he says the truth will liberate (v. 32), he says that he, the Son, will liberate (v. 36). In fact the Son is the truth, and as such he is the way to the Father (14:6). The freedom he is offering is, precisely, union with the Father, the source of all true life. The way to receive this life, with its freedom from sin's alienation and death, is to remain in his teaching. This involves an actual remaining in the Son himself, which includes remaining in his commands (15:1-17). In order to receive the power to become children of God we must receive the Son of God (1:12). We share in the Son's own relationship with the Father (17:20-26), a thought that Paul develops (Gal 4:6) with the same implications regarding freedom (Gal 5:1).

 

[grateful servant]

I understand that the Pharisees once again were blinded and had the wrong ideas about this Man to whom they were speaking.
They thought Jesus was mere human while proclaiming Himself to be God. In reality, He is God, who at that time, incarnated as man. They did not see...blinded by the god of this world, whom they served.
(excerpt)
Jesus Clearly Reveals Both His True Identity and His Opponents' Identity
John 8:31-59
As always in this Gospel, the focus comes back to Jesus' own identity: Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed (vv. 35-36). Jesus clearly contrasts his status in the family of God with that of the rest of humanity, which is enslaved to sin. Given this unique status he is the one who has freedom in God's household and is able to offer it to others. Only God can liberate us from sin, yet here Jesus says that he, the Son, can do so. Once again we see the implied claim regarding his unique oneness with the Father (cf. Chrysostom In John 54.2).

After he says the truth will liberate (v. 32), he says that he, the Son, will liberate (v. 36). In fact the Son is the truth, and as such he is the way to the Father (14:6). The freedom he is offering is, precisely, union with the Father, the source of all true life. The way to receive this life, with its freedom from sin's alienation and death, is to remain in his teaching. This involves an actual remaining in the Son himself, which includes remaining in his commands (15:1-17). In order to receive the power to become children of God we must receive the Son of God (1:12). We share in the Son's own relationship with the Father (17:20-26), a thought that Paul develops (Gal 4:6) with the same implications regarding freedom (Gal 5:1).

Thank you for your reply. I understand it as the Pharisees hated him because he exposed their corruption and evil intents, so as an excuse to get rid of him they said "he claims to be God!" That's when Jesus doubled down on them and told them the reality of what even their scriptures said: Being called "son of God" is not to be taken literally but metaphorically to mean a righteous and pious worshipper of God.

And those two excerpts you provided I could just easily interpet everything from the standpoint of Jesus being the specially chosen prophet for the Isrealites - that was his unique status among that group of pharisees. His message was the correct way to God and following it was the only way to recieve God's forgiveness. He was unique with God because he was God's specially chosen prophet for them.

The things that really stand out to me in the second quote is that The way to receive this life, with its freedom from sin's alienation and death, is to remain in his teaching....remaining in his commands This to me would mean being a Muslim - submitting one's will to the Will of God because that is what Jesus taught and commanded his followers. But the end of that quote explains precisely how you interpret it(and all of Jesus Christ's teachings and commands) - a thought that Paul develops (Gal 4:6) with the same implications regarding freedom (Gal 5:1). A perfect example of the words of Jesus being explained through the lens of Paul. An interesting exercise, thanks again.

 

[Lady]

@grateful servant

I know this is your interpretation, and I am sorry but hopeful because God said His Word does not return void. I can post all the scripture that God gives me and He will use it for His purposes.

This cool thing about the Word is that it is eternal.
Truth is eternal and whatsoever man may do to try to pervert the Truth, it cannot be changed. Words on paper may or may not be changed, but the Word which is the Truth will never change.
John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[grateful servant]

@grateful servant

I know this is your interpretation, and I am sorry but hopeful because God said His Word does not return void. I can post all the scripture that God gives me and He will use it for His purposes.

This cool thing about the Word is that it is eternal.
Truth is eternal and whatsoever man may do to try to pervert the Truth, it cannot be changed. Words on paper may or may not be changed, but the Word which is the Truth will never change.
John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I agree that the word of God is Truth, and Jesus spoke only the truth that he heard from God, no doubt.

But he was not God and not the last of God's Messengers. Be hopeful that God will open your heart to the ALL TRUTH, the complete way of life in submission to God that was brought by the one who would GUIDE YOU TO IT - Because like Jesus, he would only SPEAK what he HEARD from God - the final messenger for all of mankind, Muhammad. Peace.

 

[Yahda]

I agree that the word of God is Truth, and Jesus spoke only the truth that he heard from God, no doubt.

But he was not God and not the last of God's Messengers. Be hopeful that God will open your heart to the ALL TRUTH, the complete way of life in submission to God that was brought by the one who would GUIDE YOU TO IT - Because like Jesus, he would only SPEAK what he HEARD from God - the final messenger for all of mankind, Muhammad. Peace.

What about the return of the prophet Elijah (Malachi 4:5) ? How is Muhammad the FINAL messenger? Not to mention God never said anything about a final message or messenger. God said he would raise up many prophets and messengers even to this day. Joel 2:28

 

[Lady]

@Yahda
Matthew 17:12-13:”But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed.
Many think that Jesus is referencing here John the Baptizer who came as a harbinger of Christ. Of course, they also did unto him whatsoever they listed; they beheaded him.

 

[grateful servant]

What about the return of the prophet Elijah (Malachi 4:5) ? How is Muhammad the FINAL messenger? Not to mention God never said anything about a final message or messenger. God said he would raise up many prophets and messengers even to this day. Joel 2:28

God mentioned his finl Messenger in both the Torah and Injeel but the scribes and priests of old mixed the truth with falsehood and concealed the truth. The Most High confirms that in His final Revelation for all of Mankind - the Glorious Quran. What Lady said about Jesus saying that John the Baptist was Elijah may be true, God Knows Best. I know from Islamic sources that both John and Jesus foretold of the coming of Muhammad. Christians misinterpret their prophecies though.

About that verse in Joel ... thanks for brigning it up, it reminded me of a hadith of our beloved Prophet Muhammad:

Abu Huraira reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, say, “Nothing remains of prophecy except glad tidings.” They said, “What are glad tidings?” The Prophet said, “Righteous dreams.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6589

May God guide the Muslims, Jews and Christians to His Straight Path, Amen.

 

[Yahda]

God mentioned his finl Messenger in both the Torah and Injeel but the scribes and priests of old mixed the truth with falsehood and concealed the truth. The Most High confirms that in His final Revelation for all of Mankind - the Glorious Quran. What Lady said about Jesus saying that John the Baptist was Elijah may be true, God Knows Best. I know from Islamic sources that both John and Jesus foretold of the coming of Muhammad. Christians misinterpret their prophecies though.

About that verse in Joel ... thanks for brigning it up, it reminded me of a hadith of our beloved Prophet Muhammad:

Abu Huraira reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, say, “Nothing remains of prophecy except glad tidings.” They said, “What are glad tidings?” The Prophet said, “Righteous dreams.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6589

May God guide the Muslims, Jews and Christians to His Straight Path, Amen.

Elijah is coming for a specific purpose. That has not occurred. So no John the Baptist is not Elijah.

Anyway I knew your approach would be if it doesn't fit your narrative the Bible instantly becomes a falsehood and what not.

However you will go as far as to say that John the Baptist could possibly be Elijah ( what since does that make ?) once again the Bible is relevant to you considering it support your cause ? When in this case not by a long shot but ok. The point is that's kind of not fair.

Too flip floppy for me, but I'm fine with your stance. Just thought I'd point that out again.

 

[grateful servant]

Elijah is coming for a specific purpose. That has not occurred. So no John the Baptist is not Elijah.

Anyway I knew your approach would be if it doesn't fit your narrative the Bible instantly becomes a falsehood and what not.

However you will go as far as to say that John the Baptist could possibly be Elijah ( what since does that make ?) once again the Bible is relevant to you considering it support your cause ? When in this case not by a long shot but ok. The point is that's kind of not fair.

Too flip floppy for me, but I'm fine with your stance. Just thought I'd point that out again.

I said may have been possible, because there is no definitive mention of it in Islam. Lady doesn't seem to make a distinction between Elias and Elijah - do you? I don't remember their stories much from the Bible but Almighty God mentions them both - Elias and Elisha (Elijah) in the Quran along with other prophets. Ibn Kathir talks about them briefly in "Stories of the Prophets." but nothing about the return of Elijah is mentoned. Quran and Sunnah are my yardstick as you know. Just postulating here .... knowing that the Israleite priests and scribes concelaed much of the truth (about Jesus and Muhammad) from their scriptures, I wonder if they inserted Elijah's name when it should have been Yeshua (Jesus') name? I mean Christians and Muslims both await the second coming of Christ. And it is known that they inserted Isaac's name when it should have said Ismael as "Abraham's only begotten son." ...

Anyways, thanks for the reply. Peace.

 

[Lady]

Elijah is coming for a specific purpose. That has not occurred. So no John the Baptist is not Elijah.

Anyway I knew your approach would be if it doesn't fit your narrative the Bible instantly becomes a falsehood and what not.

However you will go as far as to say that John the Baptist could possibly be Elijah ( what since does that make ?) once again the Bible is relevant to you considering it support your cause ? When in this case not by a long shot but ok. The point is that's kind of not fair.

Too flip floppy for me, but I'm fine with your stance. Just thought I'd point that out again.

I just consider the words of Christ, and the context. Elijah was translated, so he did not see death. The Pharisees of his time could not do what they "listed" with him as he was taken up.
The Pharisees could and did however, do whatsoever they wanted to John the Baptizer and they chose to behead him for revealing who they were.

It is thought that John the Baptizer had the Spirit of Elijah. So, given the spiritual truths we know not of, this is not out of the question for me.

 

[Yahda]

I said may have been possible, because there is no definitive mention of it in Islam. Lady doesn't seem to make a distinction between Elias and Elijah - do you? I don't remember their stories much from the Bible but Almighty God mentions them both - Elias and Elisha (Elijah) in the Quran along with other prophets. Ibn Kathir talks about them briefly in "Stories of the Prophets." but nothing about the return of Elijah is mentoned. Quran and Sunnah are my yardstick as you know. Just postulating here .... knowing that the Israleite priests and scribes concelaed much of the truth (about Jesus and Muhammad) from their scriptures, I wonder if they inserted Elijah's name when it should have been Yeshua (Jesus') name? I mean Christians and Muslims both await the second coming of Christ. And it is known that they inserted Isaac's name when it should have said Ismael as "Abraham's only begotten son." ...

Anyways, thanks for the reply. Peace.

I doubt they meant Jesus, or yeshua - which does not exist. The definition of Yeshua is a translation of the name Joshua, also defined as a name christians use for Jesus for one.

Two Elijah has a specific purpose. Something that does not fit the character of Jesus. Remember christians and the religious believe he's the son of God who died for sins to save the world born of immaculate conception, here to battle evil...whatever whatever.

What does that have to do with Elijah the prophet of the OT, OR the purpose given for Elijah ? Even in reference to John the Baptist? Elijah didn't come to baptize the messiah or anyone else for that matter. Same as Christ life don't fit the bill of Elijah narrative.

Which brings to another problem I have with the text. Elias, Judas, forms Judah to jews....many names were changed. Not surprising to me. It fits the trend of confusion involving Christianity.

So no I don't relate those characters with OT characters. Just an attempt to connect the OT to the NT. I really don't know what's up with that ? But then again what do any of us know regarding its text ? Not even christians have a clue as to what's going on with that book.

So no I won't pretend and fake like I got the answers. Not one christians in the world agree. Everyone, each individual, each church, each sect....has their own versions of events so who would I be out of billions and thousands of years to come with its truths lol. Christians can't agree on anything about it. My take would simply be one of millions.

Which is why I don't bother as instructed by God.

 

[Yahda]

I just consider the words of Christ, and the context. Elijah was translated, so he did not see death. The Pharisees of his time could not do what they "listed" with him as he was taken up.
The Pharisees could and did however, do whatsoever they wanted to John the Baptizer and they chose to behead him for revealing who they were.

It is thought that John the Baptizer had the Spirit of Elijah. So, given the spiritual truths we know not of, this is not out of the question for me.

It would help if your take was more scripture based. I didn't see one scripture or precept to back your spiritual truth.

God said nothing about the spirit of Elijah going into John the Baptist.

Elijah was taken up, still alive, but his spirit was on JTB ????? Smh

It makes more sense that if he's still alive, that he would return just as The Most High said. Not that he's alive but his spirit is with someone else.

 

[Yahda]

I doubt they meant Jesus, or yeshua - which does not exist. The definition of Yeshua is a translation of the name Joshua, also defined as a name christians use for Jesus for one.

Two Elijah has a specific purpose. Something that does not fit the character of Jesus. Remember christians and the religious believe he's the son of God who died for sins to save the world born of immaculate conception, here to battle evil...whatever whatever.

What does that have to do with Elijah the prophet of the OT, OR the purpose given for Elijah ? Even in reference to John the Baptist? Elijah didn't come to baptize the messiah or anyone else for that matter. Same as Christ life don't fit the bill of Elijah narrative.

Which brings to another problem I have with the text. Elias, Judas, forms Judah to jews....many names were changed. Not surprising to me. It fits the trend of confusion involving Christianity.

So no I don't relate those characters with OT characters. Just an attempt to connect the OT to the NT. I really don't know what's up with that ? But then again what do any of us know regarding its text ? Not even christians have a clue as to what's going on with that book.

So no I won't pretend and fake like I got the answers. Not one christians in the world agree. Everyone, each individual, each church, each sect....has their own versions of events so who would I be out of billions and thousands of years to come with its truths lol. Christians can't agree on anything about it. My take would simply be one of millions.

Which is why I don't bother as instructed by God.

As far as Ishmael. I kind of feel bad for you. I'm sorry ( not sorry) that he didn't receive the promise. That does not mean that you should throw around accusations against the words of TMH.

O well. The Bible warned in psalms that's exactly what Ishmael would do.

Once again this is only accusations I hear from you. Most Muslim accept their place. Does the Quran even support the idea of Ishmael over issac....? Your answer will be very telling by the way.

If it does, psalms is right and the Quran is not a book of TMH.

If it does not, I can't believe you would be that desperate to insert your own entitled beliefs.