Qu'ran And Sunnah Teaching

Thunderian

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I have no knowledge about that particular topic and i prefer not to speak about a subject i don't know about
Good idea!

My point is, and JoChris just posted a verse about it, is that Christ taught that we are eternal beings and we should be living our lives with that in mind. Killing someone because they killed our family? Anyone can do that. What does it solve? Forgiveness. That's a radical idea, and the exact opposite of what the world is teaching. I ask again, if Islam is simply reflecting the world, how is it any different? Where is the divine aspect?
 

manama

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Good idea!

My point is, and JoChris just posted a verse about it, is that Christ taught that we are eternal beings and we should be living our lives with that in mind. Killing someone because they killed our family? Anyone can do that. What does it solve? Forgiveness. That's a radical idea, and the exact opposite of what the world is teaching. I ask again, if Islam is simply reflecting the world, how is it any different? Where is the divine aspect?
I ask you if all we do is forgiving
if nobody gets punished for their evil deeds
where is the justice? How can God be just then? what about the one who got killed? Where is the justice for him?
Forgiveness is the highest of virtues but its not always the answer
 

Thunderian

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I ask you if all we do is forgiving
if nobody gets punished for their evil deeds
where is the justice? How can God be just then? what about the one who got killed? Where is the justice for him?
Forgiveness is the highest of virtues but its not always the answer
As followers of Jesus Christ, we are commanded to forgive.

Justice comes in the afterlife. God has reserved that for himself, as he is the only one who knows everything.

Of course there is justice here on earth, but we both know that it's not perfect. God's justice is perfect and eternal.
 

manama

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As followers of Jesus Christ, we are commanded to forgive.

Justice comes in the afterlife. God has reserved that for himself, as he is the only one who knows everything.

Of course there is justice here on earth, but we both know that it's not perfect. God's justice is perfect and eternal.
By that logic we should abolish laws and have no sentences or prisons or jail
its impossible
the world isnt sunshine and rainbows
 

Thunderian

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The law of forgiveness is for Christians. There is no law in scripture against human laws relating to the kind of justice you are referring to, but as I said, these laws are imperfect, and don't affect the hearts and souls of men, as God's justice will.
 

JoChris

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I ask you if all we do is forgiving
if nobody gets punished for their evil deeds
where is the justice? How can God be just then? what about the one who got killed? Where is the justice for him?
Forgiveness is the highest of virtues but its not always the answer
Jesus was killed for us, the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins, your sins and the rest of the world's. Both infinite justice and mercy was shown at His death on the cross. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3:23-26&version=KJV
Justice will be served upon those who do not believe in Jesus Christ. MERCY will be given to those who believe in Him.
 

manama

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The law of forgiveness is for Christians. There is no law in scripture against human laws relating to the kind of justice you are referring to, but as I said, these laws are imperfect, and don't affect the hearts and souls of men, as God's justice will.
But you have to have this system of justice in the world. or else it will be a chaos
 

manama

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Jesus was killed for us, the Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins, your sins and the rest of the world's. Both infinite justice and mercy was shown at His death on the cross. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3:23-26&version=KJV
Justice will be served upon those who do not believe in Jesus Christ. MERCY will be given to those who believe in Him.
But what if im a rapist, a serial killer. What if i am a child molestor and an underground criminal
but i believe jesus to be divine? im saved?

What if im the most pure, loving, caring and pious person in the world but i dont believe jesus to be divine? ill be punished?
That , to me, is no justice
 

JoChris

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But what if im a rapist, a serial killer. What if i am a child molestor and an underground criminal
but i believe jesus to be divine? im saved?

What if im the most pure, loving, caring and pious person in the world but i dont believe jesus to be divine? ill be punished?
That , to me, is no justice
Unthinkable isn't it? That an almighty, all-knowing, all-powerful God would show such mercy and forgivemess to such undeserving sinners? That is why the Christian Gospel is called the GOOD NEWS.

A person who calls themself a Christian, claims they believe in Jesus and *continues* to murder, molest etc - they are showing they are false Christians.

But no-one is loving, caring, pious or holy to God's standards. Each one of us has stuffed up big time on multiple occasions. Invisible sins are visible to the all-knowing God. God knows our heart and we are wicked.
Not many murder, but how many would if they knew they wouldn't *ever* get caught by anyone?
Same for theft, adultery, cheating on exams et.al?

Perhaps you are genuinely moral enough to never want to do the above- do you have pride about that? Do you judge others who sin? Do you commit AND justify "minor sins" like backbiting, grumbling, getting jealous, worrying, secret disobedience?
 
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rainerann

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But what if im a rapist, a serial killer. What if i am a child molestor and an underground criminal
but i believe jesus to be divine? im saved?

What if im the most pure, loving, caring and pious person in the world but i dont believe jesus to be divine? ill be punished?
That , to me, is no justice
This is what the Bible says is required to be saved.

"that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with your heart you believe and are justified and with your mouth you confess and are saved."

The Bible also says,

"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." (1 John 3:6).

Therefore the person who continues to commit the crimes you mentioned and says they believe in Jesus is a liar. They are only saying this to deceive people. It is unfortunate but it is why scripture also tells us that we know whether someone is true or false by their works. "a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit (Matthew 7:15-20).
 

manama

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Unthinkable isn't it? That an almighty, all-knowing, all-powerful God would show such mercy and forgivemess to such undeserving sinners? That is why the Christian Gospel is called the GOOD NEWS.

A person who calls themself a Christian, claims they believe in Jesus and *continues* to murder, molest etc - they are showing they are false Christians.

But no-one is loving, caring, pious or holy to God's standards. Each one of us has stuffed up big time on multiple occasions. Invisible sins are visible to the all-knowing God. God knows our heart and we are wicked.
Not many murder, but how many would if they knew they wouldn't *ever* get caught by anyone?
Same for theft, adultery, cheating on exams et.al?

Perhaps you are genuinely moral enough to never want to do the above- do you have pride about that? Do you judge others who sin? Do you commit AND justify "minor sins" like backbiting, grumbling, getting jealous, worrying, secret disobedience?
I see, makes sense
 

Noor-AlEman

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Would anyone live and feel safe in a society where criminals can do whatever they want without punishment? You think human civilization would've survived with this kind of thinking?

Allah (عز وجل) ordered our beloved prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to give this punishment to scare anyone who dare to cause corruption and fear in people because we deserve to feel safe in our homes.

5:34 Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

No human being is more merciful and forgiving than Allah and he knows what best for us.

And this thread is for sharing Islamic teaching for all us muslims and anyone who interested to know more about Islam. If you have anything to ask us about our deen, we would be more than glad to answer. Anything else, please take it somewhere else.
 
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Noor-AlEman

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Masaru Emoto was born in Yokohama, Japan in July 1943 and a graduate of the Yokohama Municipal University's department of humanities and sciences with a focus on International Relations. In 1986 he established the IHM Corporation in Tokyo. In October of 1992 he received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine. Subsequently he was introduced to the concept of micro cluster water in the US and Magnetic Resonance Analysis technology. The quest thus began to discover the mystery of water.

He undertook extensive research of water around the planet not so much as a scientific researcher, but more from the perspective of an original thinker. At length he realized that it was in the frozen crystal form that water showed us its true nature through. He has gained worldwide acclaim through his groundbreaking research and discovery that water is deeply connected to our individual and collective consciousness.

He is the author of the best-selling books Messages from Water, The Hidden Messages in Water, and The True Power of Water. He is a long-time advocate for peace in relation to water. He is currently the head of the I.H.M.General Research Institute and President Emeritus of the International Water for Life Foundation, a Not for Profit Organization.

Mr. Emoto has been visually documenting these molecular changes in water by means of his photographic techniques. He freezes droplets of water and then examines them under a dark field microscope that has photographic capabilities.


A great video about the miracle of ZamZam.
 

Thunderian

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Would anyone live and feel safe in a society where criminals can do whatever they want without punishment? You think human civilization would've survived with this kind of thinking?
That is not what Christians are saying. A justice system is good. Punishment for crime is good. God is not against these things and neither are Christians.

The difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity leaves these things to the state. Render unto Caesar, said Jesus, and I take this to mean that all matters that are not spiritual are to be left to the state. God instituted government and and he appoints every ruler. But this means there is no Christian equivalent of shariah. There are no commands in the Bible for Christians to make war in the name of God. Jesus taught forgiveness -- not retribution -- and the Bible promises us that when we forgive, our reward from God in Heaven will be greater than any wrong we have suffered on earth.

So I go back to my original question. If Jesus taught and lived these things, and Muhammad most certainly did not, how can Jesus in any way be considered a Muslim prophet?
 

Noor-AlEman

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That is not what Christians are saying. A justice system is good. Punishment for crime is good. God is not against these things and neither are Christians.

The difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity leaves these things to the state. Render unto Caesar, said Jesus, and I take this to mean that all matters that are not spiritual are to be left to the state. God instituted government and and he appoints every ruler. But this means there is no Christian equivalent of shariah. There are no commands in the Bible for Christians to make war in the name of God. Jesus taught forgiveness -- not retribution -- and the Bible promises us that when we forgive, our reward from God in Heaven will be greater than any wrong we have suffered on earth.

So I go back to my original question. If Jesus taught and lived these things, and Muhammad most certainly did not, how can Jesus in any way be considered a Muslim prophet?
Islam called people with one clear message, "there is no God except Allah" and all the messengers from Noah to Mohammed (peace be upon them all) have called people to this.

The difference between prophet Mohammed and other prophets is that while each prophet was sent to one specific nation, prophet Mohammed was sent to all worlds as the last messenger of Allah which is why prophet Mohammed's nation has some set of rules that are different from previous nations to fit every generation that comes after.
 
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So I go back to my original question. If Jesus taught and lived these things, and Muhammad most certainly did not, how can Jesus in any way be considered a Muslim prophet?
Firstly, you are terribly misinformed if you believe that Prophet Muhammad did not practice forgiveness nor teach forgiveness. Almighty God says in the Quran,

Let them pardon and overlook. Would you not love for God to forgive you? God is Forgiving and Merciful

And Almighty God says,
The believers are those who spend in charity during ease and hardship and who restrain their anger and pardon the people, for God loves the doers of good.

And He the Most High says,
Whoever is patient and forgives, verily, that is among the matters of steadfast determination.

Prophet Muhammad said,
Charity does not decrease wealth, no one forgives except that God increases his honor, and no one humbles himself for the sake of God except that God raises his status.

And,
Be merciful to others and you will receive mercy. Forgive others and God will forgive you.

Prophet Muhammad was foretold in the previous scriptures as well and one of his descriptions in the Torah is narrated as such:

By Allah, he is described in the Torah with some of what is mention in the Quran: O Prophet, We have sent you as a witness, a bringer of glad tidings, and to give warning, (33:45) and to guard over the illiterate, for you are My servant and messenger. I have called you a trustworthy man who is neither rude nor loud in the markets, nor does he return evil with evil, but rather he pardons and forgives.

Prophet Muhammad advised one of his followers,

O Uqbah, reconcile whoever cuts you off, give to whoever deprives you, and pardon whoever wrongs you.

And one of his followers said about him,

I never saw a case involving legal retaliation being referred to Rasulullaah, except that he would recommend pardoning the criminal.​

And the examples are more and abundant for the hearts who seek the truth. Secondly, Jesus is considered a Muslim prophet because he:
  1. worshipped only God and nothing or no one else - he submitted himself to God's Will with humility, love and absolute trust in Almighty God the Glorified and Exalted.
  2. He was sent by Almighty God to the lost sheep of Israel, called them to also submit to God's Will and faithfully relayed to them the Scripture/message that God sent him with.
Almighty God says in the Quran,

And [beware the Day] when God will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides God?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
 
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