Quran And Logic

[AspiringSoul]

Collossians 2...

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power

here Paul was talking about the Jewish argument where they wanted gentiles to follow the commandments ie eat kosher for example.
Saying God was in Jesus is different to how you say Jesus Is God.
If he was indeed God you would not even differentiate and the texts would all just say God. Ironically you all believe Jesus was a servant/abd in his bodily form..
What you do not realise here is that it is a deeply mystical belief which the sufis also hold where
God is love, the lover and the beloved.
So seeing God in Jesus was never an issue for me since Jesus taught people to have the single eye ie to see God in All.

But that doesn't mean you see All as God or Jesus as God.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

A word cannot exist without a thought. True or false?

False. A word can exist without a thought if God Wills. God Doesn't Think like we do, yet He Commanded everything to 'Be'.

Also, Only God Can Create something such as a word. Since nothing existed, Only He Can Be Deemed Responsible for such a nice creation.

It's like saying Only He Could Have Created such a beautiful technology since Only He Could Have Created the mind behind it.

A thought cannot exist without a mind. True or false?

Same thing goes here where the Law of God's Oneness Dictates that Only He Can Create something such as a thought. Even though there's this thing called interdependence, ultimately everything is dependent on Him Alone, and not really dependent on each other, just like we don't depend on Earth to be floating in outer space. The Earth is just a means. Even if it weren't there, the same Law of God's Oneness Dictates that we would still have been kept afloat.

If He Wills, i can become a thought and wander in whoever's mind i want to generating whatever i want to. It's only a wishful fantasy though.

Yet together they form one being, do they not?

They are part of one being. Same cannot be applied to God Almighty Whose Being we cannot even describe. We can only try to grasp His Grandeur through the creation. For example, when you contemplate that you don't know how many hair strands there are on your body. It's your body, albeit Granted by Him, but yet we don't even know such a simple thing, yet He Knows, and that too concerning everybody's body.

 

[Artful Revealer]

But that isn't what you are saying tho, because in that sense they still can't be united because of different way of thinking. And even if we say they are like three aspects of One God, you yourself said God isn't divided into parts.

Your body, voice and scent aren't divided either. They are distinct yet will always be part of one and the same entity. That said, this isn't a proper analogy for the trinity, it simply explains how there are three distinct ways to perceive you, while you are not three different yous.

 

[Artful Revealer]

saying Jesus is God is like saying my foot is the divine intellect.

Even though technically the divine intellect is manifesting in all things inc my foot..it's a bit limiting and silly isn't it?

If one would say "Jesus' body is God", then you have a point. Nobody says that though.

 

[AspiringSoul]

If one would say "Jesus' body is God", then you have a point. Nobody says that though.

They do believe he is fully God inc in the flesh ie the Word made flesh where the Word is God.

 

[Artful Revealer]

here Paul was talking about the Jewish argument where they wanted gentiles to follow the commandments ie eat kosher for example.
Saying God was in Jesus is different to how you say Jesus Is God.
If he was indeed God you would not even differentiate and the texts would all just say God. Ironically you all believe Jesus was a servant/abd in his bodily form..
What you do not realise here is that it is a deeply mystical belief which the sufis also hold where
God is love, the lover and the beloved.
So seeing God in Jesus was never an issue for me since Jesus taught people to have the single eye ie to see God in All.

But that doesn't mean you see All as God or Jesus as God.

Except that we don't see God in All. There's no scriptural or even theological basis in Christianity (except some late offshoots) to believe that. The creation itself is not divine. When you say God is in All you render everything divine, which may be true for Sufists, I don't know, but not for Christians or Gnostics.

 

[Artful Revealer]

They do believe he is fully God inc in the flesh ie the Word made flesh where the Word is God.

Yes, but it's not the flesh that was in the beginning with God, or the flesh that was God. It's the Word (Logos) who existed before any creation of the flesh because everything was made through the Word.

 

[Artful Revealer]

False. A word can exist without a thought if God Wills.

Will implies a thought. I've often heard the argument of muslims: can God make something so heavy that He Himself cannot carry it? This would be a logical paradox. I guess this (willing word into existence without a thought) would fall into the same category.

Also, Only God Can Create something such as a word. Since nothing existed, Only He Can Be Deemed Responsible for such a nice creation.

You can create a word too. Heck, you've created at least hundreds of them in this thread alone.

Same thing goes here where the Law of God's Oneness Dictates that Only He Can Create something such as a thought. Even though there's this thing called interdependence, ultimately everything is dependent on Him Alone, and not really dependent on each other, just like we don't depend on Earth to be floating in outer space. The Earth is just a means. Even if it weren't there, the same Law of God's Oneness Dictates that we would still have been kept afloat.

If He Wills, i can become a thought and wander in whoever's mind i want to generating whatever i want to. It's only a wishful fantasy though.

This is contradictory. You said only God can create words and thoughts, yet here you say he can make you do whatever YOU want to.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

can God make something so heavy that He Himself cannot carry it?

Those are the types of questions that do not befit God's Grandeur to even be answered but even then:

Of course God Cannot Make something so heavy that He Himself cannot carry it since it's a material thing to consider and God Is Above that.

Since we don't know anything about God's Self, those types of questions are fallacious absurdities that originate from the doubts of Satan.

You can create a word too. Heck, you've created at least hundreds of them in this thread alone.

Yes, but did i exist before? No. So If He Willed me to exist, it's logical to deduce that He Also Knew Beforehand that i'd be writing those words. It's not too much to say that He Is The One Maintaining me alive, Keeping me functioning, as well as my eyes and all of my other senses of perception. It's not for nothing that some people have eyes but yet are blind. It's only proof that we can only see because He Enables us to.

This is contradictory. You said only God can create words and thoughts, yet here you say here you say he can make you do whatever YOU want to.

My desires are created things too, instilled in me by Him because it is a natural thing to desire.

Again, the Law of God's Oneness is

Laa Ilaaha Illallah

No deity but God

It's implications are:

No will except by His Will.

I cannot will anything on my own. He Certainly Won't Make me will something bad or evil, but even if He Does, doesn't my conscience reproach me? For example, say God Wills me to will harm for you. What would be the reason for that? It surely cannot be without any reason. If the reason is that you harmed me somehow, then maybe that would be justifiable, but even then, quite unrecommendable since God Loves Forgiveness and those who repel evil with good. Another point to consider, why would i will harm for anybody when i wouldn't want to be harmed myself. Moreover, i know you've been Created by God Almighty so why would i want to harm somebody who's being Maintained alive by Him? It simply doesn't work in the evil sense. God Is Good. God Wills us to will good things, not bad things.

So coming back to your confusion, when i say that only God Can Create words and thoughts, you have to also take into account that it is Still Only God Who Can Be Maintaining my mind and my body to exist at each and every second. That's what faith is all about. Everything that is around us are dependent on God. It's not a light saying. Let me expound more on the Sacred Saying that there's no god besides God.

Every atom in the universe testifies to God's Oneness, that is, it is only God Who's Keeping them existing.

​

So you see. Laa Ilaaha Illallah means that there's no god but God. Every atom in the universe testifies to that.

Only God Is Keeping us existing.

Only God Is Responsible for us.

Only God Can Create love and make us enjoy it.

Only God Can Create something such as the sun and make it's warmth and light beneficial to us.

Only God Can Create such a beautiful sky.

Only God Could Have Created such a beautiful wife.

Only God Could Have Created such a beautiful body, as well as the bodies of its earthly originators (i.e. our parents).

Only God Can Grant us such an unfaltering faith in Him.

Only God Can Protect us from evil and every lewdness and perversion and make us see life oh so beautiful without any of it.

The list goes on and on until you've kept on saying it so much daily that it has now become ingrained in your heart.

When that happens, nothing scares you any longer, since your heart now accepts that indeed God Is Greater than everything.

 

[floss]

Just got back from my vacation in Florida and seem like VC deemed my last post as inappropriate content. I respected VC, so I apologized for that. I wasn't losing my cool or anything like that but rather battling this anti-Christ spirits actually feeling pretty good.

What I learned from this is whenever you speak the truth (or draw cartoons) about Mo that is when it's considered hate-speech. I understand the truth can be pretty offensive to those that are in the darkness. I could imagine Jesus telling Mo the same thing I did so I don't see it as a problem (personally). Lets not forget about all the personal attacks sent my way from Muslims.

As far as being a Christian, is there a guideline I have to follow as a requirement? Seem like @Damien50 is my go-to guy, perhaps you can answer. Currently, my priority is to fight the good fight, doesn't matter if it's offensive. I believed once you become soft, that's when evil win the battle. So, if there is a guideline please then let me know or else I will just keep reproving wickedness as Jesus would've done the same.

If Mo meet Jesus one day, I would love a ticket to this main event. He will call Mo all sorts of thing not just pizzagater.

 

[Todd]

Just got back from my vacation in Florida and seem like VC deemed my last post as inappropriate content. I respected VC, so I apologized for that. I wasn't losing my cool or anything like that but rather battling this anti-Christ spirits actually feeling pretty good.

What I learned from this is whenever you speak the truth (or draw cartoons) about Mo that is when it's considered hate-speech. I understand the truth can be pretty offensive to those that are in the darkness. I could imagine Jesus telling Mo the same thing I did so I don't see it as a problem (personally). Lets not forget about all the personal attacks sent my way from Muslims.

As far as being a Christian, is there a guideline I have to follow as a requirement? Seem like @Damien50 is my go-to guy, perhaps you can answer. Currently, my priority is to fight the good fight, doesn't matter if it's offensive. I believed once you become soft, that's when evil win the battle. So, if there is a guideline please then let me know or else I will just keep reproving wickedness as Jesus would've done the same.

If Mo meet Jesus one day, I would love a ticket to this main event. He will call Mo all sorts of thing not just pizzagater.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The only people Jesus rebuked and showed any contempt towards were religious hypocrites. As far as I can see there are just as many if not more hypocrites in Christianity than Islam. Your issue with Muslims is a disagreement about doctrine. Jesus' disagreement with the religious hypocrites was that they taught one thing and did something else. I'm pretty sure the Muslim bashing doesn't fall under WWJD.

 

[Kung Fu]

Currently, my priority is to fight the good fight, doesn't matter if it's offensive.

To "fight the good fight" you would actually have to know a thing or two about the tenets of Islam.

Instead of watching YT videos of cross-dressers perhaps you could spend your time reading and actually learning a thing or two about your religion and then come back and for once answer the questions that Muslims have. You know kind of like how I've set you straight with some of the misinformed nonsense you put out here on the forums regarding Islam?

A good place to start on not being a hypocrite would be to read Todd's post above me.

 

[grateful servant]

Just got back from my vacation in Florida and seem like VC deemed my last post as inappropriate content. I respected VC, so I apologized for that. I wasn't losing my cool or anything like that but rather battling this anti-Christ spirits actually feeling pretty good.

What I learned from this is whenever you speak the truth (or draw cartoons) about Mo that is when it's considered hate-speech. I understand the truth can be pretty offensive to those that are in the darkness. I could imagine Jesus telling Mo the same thing I did so I don't see it as a problem (personally). Lets not forget about all the personal attacks sent my way from Muslims.

As far as being a Christian, is there a guideline I have to follow as a requirement? Seem like @Damien50 is my go-to guy, perhaps you can answer. Currently, my priority is to fight the good fight, doesn't matter if it's offensive. I believed once you become soft, that's when evil win the battle. So, if there is a guideline please then let me know or else I will just keep reproving wickedness as Jesus would've done the same.

If Mo meet Jesus one day, I would love a ticket to this main event. He will call Mo all sorts of thing not just pizzagater.

They've already met, @floss. Two servants of the Most High God and closest brothers in faith.

Prophet Muhammad - peace and blessings of God be upon him said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

 

[floss]

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The only people Jesus rebuked and showed any contempt towards were religious hypocrites. As far as I can see there are just as many if not more hypocrites in Christianity than Islam. Your issue with Muslims is a disagreement about doctrine. Jesus' disagreement with the religious hypocrites was that they taught one thing and did something else. I'm pretty sure the Muslim bashing doesn't fall under WWJD.

Mohammed is not a religious hypocrites? Again, It's not bashing Muslims but rather Mohammed, get that straight. I barely attacks anyone here personally. If revealing Mo's bad deeds is consider attacking Muslims then I supposed I am. You're acting like Muslims here are playing nice, maybe because you're needing their supports for Chrislam?

 

[Damien50]

Just got back from my vacation in Florida and seem like VC deemed my last post as inappropriate content. I respected VC, so I apologized for that. I wasn't losing my cool or anything like that but rather battling this anti-Christ spirits actually feeling pretty good.

What I learned from this is whenever you speak the truth (or draw cartoons) about Mo that is when it's considered hate-speech. I understand the truth can be pretty offensive to those that are in the darkness. I could imagine Jesus telling Mo the same thing I did so I don't see it as a problem (personally). Lets not forget about all the personal attacks sent my way from Muslims.

As far as being a Christian, is there a guideline I have to follow as a requirement? Seem like @Damien50 is my go-to guy, perhaps you can answer. Currently, my priority is to fight the good fight, doesn't matter if it's offensive. I believed once you become soft, that's when evil win the battle. So, if there is a guideline please then let me know or else I will just keep reproving wickedness as Jesus would've done the same.

If Mo meet Jesus one day, I would love a ticket to this main event. He will call Mo all sorts of thing not just pizzagater.

If you actually want to know my biblical/personal opinion then message me.

 

[Serendipity]

Sure, I simply meant that they invented the explanation of the Royal We to hide the fact that the Royal We in Genesis was referring to multiple entities.

Umm..but why would they 'invent' the explanation when it already existed?

I would think that Aramaic is similar to Arabic in terms of grammar and structure so 'We' could definitely refer to a single entity instead of multiple entities.

 

[Haich]

Mohammed is not a religious hypocrites? Again, It's not bashing Muslims but rather Mohammed, get that straight. I barely attacks anyone here personally. If revealing Mo's bad deeds is consider attacking Muslims then I supposed I am. You're acting like Muslims here are playing nice, maybe because you're needing their supports for Chrislam?

When you use terms like hypocrite, cult and rapist then you are bashing Muslims for believing in Islam. I've yet to see anyone use derogatory and offensive terms when asking questions about Christianity

 

[Haich]

Nothing wrong with criticism, feel free to ask questions and disagree with concepts which you don't agree with but do it with a little respect and decorum.

Don't poke the bear with a stick then get angry when it bites.

 

[Damien50]

When you use terms like hypocrite, cult and rapist then you are bashing Muslims for believing in Islam. I've yet to see anyone use derogatory and offensive terms when asking questions about Christianity

I've the Holy ghost made fun of but I don't expect non Christians to know

Matthew 12:31-32 KJV
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[Kung Fu]

Mohammed is not a religious hypocrites? Again, It's not bashing Muslims but rather Mohammed, get that straight. I barely attacks anyone here personally. If revealing Mo's bad deeds is consider attacking Muslims then I supposed I am. You're acting like Muslims here are playing nice, maybe because you're needing their supports for Chrislam?

You couldn't attack a fly so don't flatter yourself. You continue to bark like you actually think you know something. What's funny is you're using the word hypocrite but I don't think you even know what it means lol. When you stop your ad hominems and want to have a real debate why don't you give me a holler so I can show you a thing or two like I did when I exposed your "apostate" nonsense. Maybe this time around you could actually answer some of my questions rather than deflecting and posting "videos" lol.