Putin officially threatens Nuclear War

justjess

Superstar
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
11,534
Being a Ukrainian living in the USA for the last 18 years, I have long lost count of how many times I have been through some variation of the following discourses:

--- 1 ---

Them: Good to meet you. What’s your nationality?
Me: I am from Ukraine
Them: Ah, Russian, cool
Me: No, I’m Ukrainian
Them: Oh, what’s the difference?
Me: Well, you know, about the same as between Chinese and Koreans or Mexicans and Guatemalans; they are different nationalities.
Them: {either awkwardly apologize or get offended and walk away}

--- 2 ---

Them: You look so Russian. Are you Russian?
Me: No, I am Ukrainian. My ethnicity is Slavic. There’s no such thing as “looking Russian”.
Them: {a sarcastic} Oh excuse me! -OR- {a silent stare} -OR- Jeez you sound like you hate Russians!

--- 3 ---

Them: {overhearing me speak Russian} What part of Russia are you from?
Me: I’m from Ukraine
Them: Oh, The Ukraine, that’s in the eastern part, right?
Me: It’s Ukraine without “the”, it isn’t part of Russia, it is a separate sovereign country.
Them: {look confused and change the subject}

Sigh…

I know that many will find it obvious why such discourses are unnerving but since the above examples show that there are also many who have no clue, I’d like to explain.

The history of Ukraine is long and complicated but the short of it is roughly this: in their early histories Ukraine and Russia were developing on separate tracks with their own distinguishing cultural and linguistic features until Russia’s relationship to Ukraine became that of an imperialistic oppressor. Driven by a desire to assimilate Ukraine under its control, Russia resorted to a variety of measures ranging from brute force to economic warfare to cultural extermination policies banning Ukrainian language, scorning Ukrainian culture as crude and inferior and stereotyping Ukrainian people accordingly. This went on for quite some time. Various groups within Ukraine continuously resisted the oppression and fought for Ukrainian identity and self-determination with only a few short-lived successes until the eventual collapse of the USSR.

In 1991 Ukraine finally gained independence but its fight for identity and firm footing was far from over. During the soviet rule, Ukrainian economy was fashioned to play narrow (mainly agricultural and industrial) roles in the overall USSR economy which, upon USSR’s collapse, left Ukraine without the full range of industries and infrastructure necessary to support an independent economy. The country began its still ongoing struggle to become self-sustaining while Russia continued to be able to dominate economically, Ukrainian people and culture still often stereotyped as “less-than” with many also suffering from now internalized stereotypes of inferiority while a lot of the word didn’t even get the memo that Ukraine has ever been anything other than “the bread basket of the USSR”.

This history isn’t long-forgotten past, it is a living reverberation in the minds and hearts of millions of Ukrainians today affecting many aspects of our wellbeing. It’s an open and often unspoken wound that cuts across generations of Ukrainian nationals and the diaspora and it will take many more generations to fully heal this legacy of oppression.

Although I’m sure it does happen, and not at all to say that the groups I’m about to mention suffer any less from prejudiced treatment in the US, but I imagine that very few would be ignorant or insensitive enough to approach a stranger with Asian features and proclaim “You look so Chinese! Are you Chinese?” or overhear someone speaking Spanish and proceed to ask “Where in Mexico are you from”. As a Ukrainian Slav, that same consideration was not extended to me far too many times. When that happens, when people I meet automatically associate my origin, look or language with Russia, what hurts is not the ignorance itself but the reminder that this was the whole point: to erase Ukrainian as a standalone identity that is separate from Russia. Every time it happens, there’s a voice inside me that whispers, “the oppressor has succeeded”, that's what hurts.

There’s no changing the past, what is done is done. None of the above is said to demonize any nation or group of people or hand blame for the historical injustice that was done. I want to be seen as Ukrainian not because I hate Russians (I absolutely don’t hate or even dislike Russians and have a number of dear Russian friends whom I adore) but simply because I am not Russian, I am Ukrainian and being Ukrainian is a part of my overall identity that is important for me to honor. And all I ask of my sisters and brothers of all nationalities is just to remember this. Ukraine is not Russia or in Russia. Ukrainians are not Russians. It is “Ukraine”, not “the Ukraine”. A lot of Ukrainians speak Russian as well as Ukrainian; speaking Russian does not make someone Russian. There is long painful history that makes it a touchy subject and a lot of Ukrainians take it close to heart, please respect it.

Today is a special day. Today is International Vyshyvanka Day, the day on which Ukrainian nationals and diaspora around the world celebrate our traditional Ukrainian garment as a symbol of our identity, unity and heritage. Thank you for reading this long rant saved for this special occasion. If you are a fellow diasporan who has suffered similar frustrations, I hope it served as validation, and if you’re someone who may have unknowingly inflicted them, I hope it was of edifying value.

#InternationalVyshyvankaDay #UkrainianWoman #ДеньВишиванки
#MyStory



^ seen it on facebook from an actual ukrainian. i’ll take a ukrainians perspective over a random americans any day.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
2,506
would you just give up? if it was the other way around and america was invading someone would you advise THEM to just give up? i’ve seen you in the past say precisely the opposite but you have a soft spot for putin when it suits you so i guess here we are.
Russia invading Ukraine (that was once part of Russia, and is now a staging ground for anti-Russian activity) is nowhere near the same as the US invading countries on the other side of the world that literally have nothing to do with US security. These are 2 entirely different situations, I hope you can see that.

I dont even like Putin, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to attack him based on false narratives. No self respecting country will allow a neighbouring country that was split away from them to be used to stage subversive activities against them. Should he just sit back and wait until NATO tries to overthrow his country. Honestly what business does the US have trying to influence Ukraine ?

the ukrainian people do not want to be under russian rule. that is the only thing that actually matters here.
Do we know this for a fact ? I dont think the Ukrainian people, like American people, or any other people are 100% in agreement about everything.
 

FilthPig

Veteran
Joined
Jul 28, 2021
Messages
743
Do you want evidence for the sky being blue as well ?
Speculations are not evidence ,just like emotional opinion aint fact . Or go present your so called evidence to NCA and see what they think of it.
"In September 2019, the National Crime Agency dropped its investigations into Banks and Leave.EU. The NCA found "no evidence that any criminal offences have been committed."


 

justjess

Superstar
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
11,534
Russia invading Ukraine (that was once part of Russia, and is now a staging ground for anti-Russian activity) is nowhere near the same as the US invading countries on the other side of the world that literally have nothing to do with US security. These are 2 entirely different situations, I hope you can see that.

I dont even like Putin, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to attack him based on false narratives. No self respecting country will allow a neighbouring country that was split away from them to be used to stage subversive activities against them. Should he just sit back and wait until NATO tries to overthrow his country. Honestly what business does the US have trying to influence Ukraine ?



Do we know this for a fact ? I dont think the Ukrainian people, like American people, or any other people are 100% in agreement about everything.
nope.. pretty much the same thing. ukraine is an independent sovereign country. russia has no “rights” to it. doesn’t matter if for some brief period in time they owned it decades ago. they don’t now. ukraine won its independence and the ukrainian people have expressed no interest in ending that arrangement to return to russia.

have you read what the ukrainian people are saying? do you know a ukrainian? or you seeking out their own statements in social media or whatever avenue you have available to you? the majority are not for this. the ones who would rather be russian always had the freedom to immigrate to russia anyway
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
8,768
Being a Ukrainian living in the USA for the last 18 years, I have long lost count of how many times I have been through some variation of the following discourses:

--- 1 ---

Them: Good to meet you. What’s your nationality?
Me: I am from Ukraine
Them: Ah, Russian, cool
Me: No, I’m Ukrainian
Them: Oh, what’s the difference?
Me: Well, you know, about the same as between Chinese and Koreans or Mexicans and Guatemalans; they are different nationalities.
Them: {either awkwardly apologize or get offended and walk away}

--- 2 ---

Them: You look so Russian. Are you Russian?
Me: No, I am Ukrainian. My ethnicity is Slavic. There’s no such thing as “looking Russian”.
Them: {a sarcastic} Oh excuse me! -OR- {a silent stare} -OR- Jeez you sound like you hate Russians!

--- 3 ---

Them: {overhearing me speak Russian} What part of Russia are you from?
Me: I’m from Ukraine
Them: Oh, The Ukraine, that’s in the eastern part, right?
Me: It’s Ukraine without “the”, it isn’t part of Russia, it is a separate sovereign country.
Them: {look confused and change the subject}

Sigh…

I know that many will find it obvious why such discourses are unnerving but since the above examples show that there are also many who have no clue, I’d like to explain.

The history of Ukraine is long and complicated but the short of it is roughly this: in their early histories Ukraine and Russia were developing on separate tracks with their own distinguishing cultural and linguistic features until Russia’s relationship to Ukraine became that of an imperialistic oppressor. Driven by a desire to assimilate Ukraine under its control, Russia resorted to a variety of measures ranging from brute force to economic warfare to cultural extermination policies banning Ukrainian language, scorning Ukrainian culture as crude and inferior and stereotyping Ukrainian people accordingly. This went on for quite some time. Various groups within Ukraine continuously resisted the oppression and fought for Ukrainian identity and self-determination with only a few short-lived successes until the eventual collapse of the USSR.

In 1991 Ukraine finally gained independence but its fight for identity and firm footing was far from over. During the soviet rule, Ukrainian economy was fashioned to play narrow (mainly agricultural and industrial) roles in the overall USSR economy which, upon USSR’s collapse, left Ukraine without the full range of industries and infrastructure necessary to support an independent economy. The country began its still ongoing struggle to become self-sustaining while Russia continued to be able to dominate economically, Ukrainian people and culture still often stereotyped as “less-than” with many also suffering from now internalized stereotypes of inferiority while a lot of the word didn’t even get the memo that Ukraine has ever been anything other than “the bread basket of the USSR”.

This history isn’t long-forgotten past, it is a living reverberation in the minds and hearts of millions of Ukrainians today affecting many aspects of our wellbeing. It’s an open and often unspoken wound that cuts across generations of Ukrainian nationals and the diaspora and it will take many more generations to fully heal this legacy of oppression.

Although I’m sure it does happen, and not at all to say that the groups I’m about to mention suffer any less from prejudiced treatment in the US, but I imagine that very few would be ignorant or insensitive enough to approach a stranger with Asian features and proclaim “You look so Chinese! Are you Chinese?” or overhear someone speaking Spanish and proceed to ask “Where in Mexico are you from”. As a Ukrainian Slav, that same consideration was not extended to me far too many times. When that happens, when people I meet automatically associate my origin, look or language with Russia, what hurts is not the ignorance itself but the reminder that this was the whole point: to erase Ukrainian as a standalone identity that is separate from Russia. Every time it happens, there’s a voice inside me that whispers, “the oppressor has succeeded”, that's what hurts.

There’s no changing the past, what is done is done. None of the above is said to demonize any nation or group of people or hand blame for the historical injustice that was done. I want to be seen as Ukrainian not because I hate Russians (I absolutely don’t hate or even dislike Russians and have a number of dear Russian friends whom I adore) but simply because I am not Russian, I am Ukrainian and being Ukrainian is a part of my overall identity that is important for me to honor. And all I ask of my sisters and brothers of all nationalities is just to remember this. Ukraine is not Russia or in Russia. Ukrainians are not Russians. It is “Ukraine”, not “the Ukraine”. A lot of Ukrainians speak Russian as well as Ukrainian; speaking Russian does not make someone Russian. There is long painful history that makes it a touchy subject and a lot of Ukrainians take it close to heart, please respect it.

Today is a special day. Today is International Vyshyvanka Day, the day on which Ukrainian nationals and diaspora around the world celebrate our traditional Ukrainian garment as a symbol of our identity, unity and heritage. Thank you for reading this long rant saved for this special occasion. If you are a fellow diasporan who has suffered similar frustrations, I hope it served as validation, and if you’re someone who may have unknowingly inflicted them, I hope it was of edifying value.

#InternationalVyshyvankaDay #UkrainianWoman #ДеньВишиванки
#MyStory



^ seen it on facebook from an actual ukrainian. i’ll take a ukrainians perspective over a random americans any day.
Lots of history there, but lets also not forget that one of the 3rd Reich's biggest blunders was to oppress the Ukrainian people instead of enveloping them. They were already onboard with the Nazi agenda... so onboard that they still have militias there with actual Nazi lineage. Not neo-Nazis, not pseudo-Nazis... those militias trace their origins back to the source... all the way back to WW2.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2021
Messages
582
Lets be real... Trump is compromised by both Russian and Ukrainian actors... as is Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Pelosi and etc.
Russian collusion was proven false but he does have some business interests in Russia. Don't know about Ukraine though.

But my point is vancity did some whataboutism with Trump because he could not prove me wrong. He seems to think Trump is some kind of evil mastermind with more influence than the WEF which is ridiculous.
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
8,768
Russian collusion was proven false but he does have some business interests in Russia. Don't know about Ukraine though.

But my point is vancity did some whataboutism with Trump because he could not prove me wrong. He seems to think Trump is some kind of evil mastermind with more influence than the WEF which is ridiculous.
The "Russian collusion" that was never intended to produce anything in the first place was never proven true... but Trump (like the rest of that segment of the Epstein-class) is most certainly compromised by both Russian and Ukrainian actors. He is for sale, so Trump is compromised all over the world.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
2,506
Russian collusion was proven false but he does have some business interests in Russia. Don't know about Ukraine though.

But my point is vancity did some whataboutism with Trump because he could not prove me wrong. He seems to think Trump is some kind of evil mastermind with more influence than the WEF which is ridiculous.
Russian collusion was not proven FALSE.

There simply was no smoking gun. You dont have a smoking gun for ANY of the conspiracies you believe in either, but you believe them based almost entirely on speculation.

They proved that Russia meddled in the elections. They just didn't have a video or Putin and Trump smoking cigars in a room plotting together. (which likely never happened, the bosses aren't going to get their hands dirty)

there is plenty of evidence of Russians operating with Trump associates.

Trump was a puppet of a fascist agenda in America, which Russia and Israel endorsed out of political convenience.

WEF is one of dozens of think tanks which organize to control the world economy.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2021
Messages
582
Russian collusion was not proven FALSE.

There simply was no smoking gun. You dont have a smoking gun for ANY of the conspiracies you believe in either, but you believe them based almost entirely on speculation.

They proved that Russia meddled in the elections. They just didn't have a video or Putin and Trump smoking cigars in a room plotting together. (which likely never happened, the bosses aren't going to get their hands dirty)

there is plenty of evidence of Russians operating with Trump associates.

Trump was a puppet of a fascist agenda in America, which Russia and Israel endorsed out of political convenience.

WEF is one of dozens of think tanks which organize to control the world economy.
Mueller found nothing and the Steele dossier was fake, the guy lied to the FBI.


You believe in fairy tales.
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
8,768
Russian collusion was not proven FALSE.

There simply was no smoking gun. You dont have a smoking gun for ANY of the conspiracies you believe in either, but you believe them based almost entirely on speculation.

They proved that Russia meddled in the elections. They just didn't have a video or Putin and Trump smoking cigars in a room plotting together. (which likely never happened, the bosses aren't going to get their hands dirty)

there is plenty of evidence of Russians operating with Trump associates.

Trump was a puppet of a fascist agenda in America, which Russia and Israel endorsed out of political convenience.

WEF is one of dozens of think tanks which organize to control the world economy.
It was so obvious that Russia did the natural strategic thing regarding espionage/intrigue and compromised both Trump and Clinton long before the 2016 election cycle. Its no different now, Biden is compromised by both Russian and Ukrainian actors and we see his desperte balancing act commence... just wait until Chinese actors come for their due regarding the portions of Biden they own... These disagreements are reminiscent of MAGA/Q people being clued into every underage sex trafficking network yet suddenly cant see Dirty Donnies decades of life aboard the Pedo-tanic steamliner... and the "liberal" blue crowd who wants to send our money all over the world to save people, yet wont look at the Clintons and Haiti.
 

Rufus McKenzie

Established
Joined
Feb 16, 2022
Messages
200
Mueller found nothing and the Steele dossier was fake, the guy lied to the FBI.


You believe in fairy tales.

 
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
2,506
Mueller found nothing and the Steele dossier was fake, the guy lied to the FBI.


You believe in fairy tales.
The guy lied to the FBI, not about what was in the Steele dossier.

Russian collusion with Trump isn't even based on the Steele dossier anyways.

You've got to be blind as a bat to not see Trump and Russia were working together. You've got to be even dumber to think that if Russia worked to get Trump in office (Mueller investigation admitted this) they wouldn't collude with their long time asset and assets in his organization.

Yeah there was no cooperation at all, they just wanted him in, but wouldn't work together to make it happen.

Of course we know that's a lie. I guess Trumps campaign manager was sharing polling data with the Russians just for fun.

All the meetings with Russian officials were also to discuss their favorite movies.

Trumps first campaign manager was a PR guy for Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2021
Messages
582
The guy lied to the FBI, not about what was in the Steele dossier.

Russian collusion with Trump isn't even based on the Steele dossier anyways.

You've got to be blind as a bat to not see Trump and Russia were working together. You've got to be even dumber to think that if Russia worked to get Trump in office (Mueller investigation admitted this) they wouldn't collude with their long time asset and assets in his organization.

Yeah there was no cooperation at all, they just wanted him in, but wouldn't work together to make it happen.

Of course we know that's a lie. I guess Trumps campaign manager was sharing polling data with the Russians just for fun.

All the meetings with Russian officials were also to discuss their favorite movies.

Trumps first campaign manager was a PR guy for Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.
The Steele dossier is still fake it's been shown to be made up by people working for Hilary Clinton's campaign to try to discredit Trump.


Why would they make this up if there was already proof that Trump colluded with Russia? Why trust Mueller for his claims that Russia interfered with the election when the FBI investigated Trump solely based on the Dossier? Why trust these intelligence agencies at all?

And Trump has business relations in Russia like I said. There is no doubt he has been influenced but there was no evidence of collusion here.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
2,506
Ukraine has banned men from 18-60 from leaving the country in an attempt to force them to fight and die to uphold the US puppet state.

What a "free" country. Who wouldn't want to be forced to fight for that country.

If the Ukrainians want so badly to be "free from Russia" you wouldn't have to force them to fight.
 
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