psychiatry isn't a science, it's a huge FRAUD

[justjess]

Does it?

It is not something I ever have to think about.
If I get sick I go to the dr, get treated like crap and fobbed off with some pills.

I never think about the insurance aspect of it, although its in the name 'national insurance'.

I’m on my way to a behavioral therapy session lol. I’ll explain more when I get back. But yes, it does. The problem isn’t psychiatry it’s the system that pays for it and thereby limits it to something it’s not

 

[Cintra]

I’m on my way to a behavioral therapy session lol. I’ll explain more when I get back. But yes, it does. The problem isn’t psychiatry it’s the system that pays for it and thereby limits it to something it’s not

I will be interested in what you have to say.

I have always just taken the NHS for granted. Never really thought about how it worked.

 

[Cintra]

Having lived in the U.K. (and I LOVE it there, by the way!), I can say through actual firsthand experience and observation that the U. S. is much better. I'm not saying it's perfect, but because it's privatized, we are able to make strides in medical advances whereas the NHS is just struggling to keep up with patient loads and endless underfunding, which causes doctor/nurse/hospital shortages.

NHS has always been teetering on the edge and completely at the mercy of the government and lack of proper funding long before Covid. So many people die just waiting for their ops or to see a specialist. Here's a tiny selection of atricles throughout the years highlighting the problems -

Britain’s NHS is failing patients more than ever: Will it matter to voters?

In the midst of the election campaign, new statistics show that the NHS in England posted its worst performance on waiting times since as far back as the data goes.

qz.com

NHS 'faces its worst bed crisis this winter'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Spending Review 2010: NHS faces bed-blocking crisis

Pateints will be denied hospital beds because they will be filled by the elderly and vulnerable who are unable to get council care after Coalition cuts, a health service chief warns.

www.telegraph.co.uk

NHS facing £2bn deficit and 'worst financial crisis in a generation'

Hospitals have overspent by nearly £1bn in three months due in part to soaring bill for agency and other temporary staff, according to regulators.

www.theguardian.com

NHS faces financial disaster in 2015 as radical solution urged

Two finance directors in three fear their hospital will go into deficit next year as next government must choose between cuts and extra spending, say experts

www.independent.co.uk

The NHS's Winter Crisis Is A Red Flag For Americans Enticed By Single-Payer

The winter flu season has plunged Britain's government-run National Health Service into a full-blown crisis.

www.forbes.com

Nine in 10 NHS bosses say staffing crisis endangering patients

In dramatic election intervention, hospital chiefs warn parties not to make false promises

www.theguardian.com

For those who want to argue the point but haven't lived in a country with standard to flat-out bad socialized healthcare, all you're throwing out is assumptions and uneducated opinions. Some Americans seem to have no clue how good they've got it. The sad part is those same clueless people want to destroy what we have and turn it into the NHS.

When you give absolute control of your health to the government, the government will mismanage it just as they do most other things (such as the VA and social security) and they will completely own you and your life. Beaurocrats get to decide who lives and who dies.

The way I have always understood it is that you get ok healthcare in the US if you are well off.
But you run the risk of many unnecessary procedures and tests because they get paid for them.

If you have no insurance you seem to be left to die on the streets.

Here everyone gets the same minimum care for free.
It is what it is.

I think I probably prefer our way because I am not rich and I am used to it.

Once I turned down 50k of treatment.
I told them to stuff it, and I told them they should be grateful I was saving them all that money.
They were not grateful.

But the truth is that americans have told me that they are going without treatment because they cannot afford it.
That just does not happen here.
I think I prefer that.

 

[Cintra]

Wierdly these two genuine conversations highlight my perceived difference between US and UK health care

First convo, had on the internet.

Them : I think I have broke my foot.
Me : You should get an Xray!
Them : I can't afford one so I will strap it up and hope for the best.

Second convo, had in person

Me : I think I have broke my foot
Them : You should get an Xray!
Me : I am not going to wait 3 hours in A&E, so I will strap it up and hope for the best.

 

[B_JMNN]

Wierdly these two genuine conversations highlight my perceived difference between US and UK health care

First convo, had on the internet.

Them : I think I have broke my foot.
Me : You should get an Xray!
Them : I can't afford one so I will strap it up and hope for the best.

Second convo, had in person

Me : I think I have broke my foot
Them : You should get an Xray!
Me : I am not going to wait 3 hours in A&E, so I will strap it up and hope for the best.

Health insurance is the real fraud. Making us pay for what should be a human right is the fraud. One doesn't want to pay is vastly different than one being impatient. One has no choice to strap up the other does.

This affects mental health and you don't have the money to pay to talk to someone to make you feel better in your mind. Most of those psychologists are there to help YOU get through whatever is troubling You. But sadly, it's corrupt like the hospitals and there are some that don't care at all and just want the money they get from Insurance.

And if you don't have insurance, they give you a bed and say take some pills then send you on your way. If you have decent insurance, you get the basic treatment package. Now if you have great Insurance or can afford to pay out of pocket, you'll get the cure that moment.

Also, Doctors tend to not want to consider any other treatment not approved by the FDA when proof is in the patients.

 

[Cintra]

Health insurance is the real fraud. Making us pay for what should be a human right is the fraud. One doesn't want to pay is vastly different than one being impatient. One has no choice to strap up the other does.

This affects mental health and you don't have the money to pay to talk to someone to make you feel better in your mind. Most of those psychologists are there to help YOU get through whatever is troubling You. But sadly, it's corrupt like the hospitals and there are some that don't care at all and just want the money they get from Insurance.

And if you don't have insurance, they give you a bed and say take some pills then send you on your way. If you have decent insurance, you get the basic treatment package. Now if you have great Insurance or can afford to pay out of pocket, you'll get the cure that moment.

Also, Doctors tend to not want to consider any other treatment not approved by the FDA when proof is in the patients.

I wouldn't like to comment further on the US health care system.
It is not something I am familiar with.
I like out system because I am used to it, but it is far from perfect.

My foot was broke, btw.
Two weeks later the swelling went down and there is now a bone sticking out the side of my foot when I flex it in a certain way.

 

[imsickofyoshi]

Big ass scam that put me and my family thought the wringer. I think I just needed a change of diet.

 

[justjess]

I wasn’t trying or intending to start a debate about different health care systems lol..

Basically it’s simple, any time an insurance system is paying for something - any type of insurance system - the goal is to get the issue to a minimally acceptable level of “cured”as quickly and cheaply as possible.

It’s a lot cheaper to write someone a script then to implement intensive behavioral therapy. Insurance pays $50/hr for me to be somewhere (I get less then half but that’s what they pay) I see my client 30 hrs/week. The clinician in charge sees him three hours/week at $150/hr. That’s two grand a week. A high end psychotropic med costs maybe $800/month plus the psych visit. Clearly that options cheaper so that’s the option they go with when they can.

Behavioral issues are supposed to be treated with behavioral therapy first, then meds if that fails but no one can afford that or wants to pay that so they skip steps and go straight for the meds when they shouldn’t.

plus insurance generally doesn’t allow for the proper amount of time to actually assess someone - no ones working for free, so they rush it. It’s just a screwed up system all around - and that goes for both private and public systems. Atleast public everyone gets some level of shitty treatment but it’s still shitty treatment.

pay out of pocket and see how much better the outcomes are. I did for my son and it was an entirely different experience.

 

[Tidal]

My solicitor sent me to a psychiatrist in 2001 in connection with a vigilante rap I was due to appear in court on, no doubt he was hoping the shrink would find me nutty so that he could get me off on a "guilty but insane" plea, but to our surprise the shrink pronounced me SANE!
His written report concluded with something like- "Mr X's behaviour was appropriate throughout the interview, he is a strong-willed individual which would account for the trouble he now finds himself in with the police, and I can find no evidence that the balance of his mind was disturbed."

 

[Cintra]

I wasn’t trying or intending to start a debate about different health care systems lol..

Basically it’s simple, any time an insurance system is paying for something - any type of insurance system - the goal is to get the issue to a minimally acceptable level of “cured”as quickly and cheaply as possible.

It’s a lot cheaper to write someone a script then to implement intensive behavioral therapy. Insurance pays $50/hr for me to be somewhere (I get less then half but that’s what they pay) I see my client 30 hrs/week. The clinician in charge sees him three hours/week at $150/hr. That’s two grand a week. A high end psychotropic med costs maybe $800/month plus the psych visit. Clearly that options cheaper so that’s the option they go with when they can.

Behavioral issues are supposed to be treated with behavioral therapy first, then meds if that fails but no one can afford that or wants to pay that so they skip steps and go straight for the meds when they shouldn’t.

plus insurance generally doesn’t allow for the proper amount of time to actually assess someone - no ones working for free, so they rush it. It’s just a screwed up system all around - and that goes for both private and public systems. Atleast public everyone gets some level of shitty treatment but it’s still shitty treatment.

pay out of pocket and see how much better the outcomes are. I did for my son and it was an entirely different experience.

Thank you.
That all makes sense.

I didn't mean to derail the thread. hopefully it can get back on track.

 

[Cintra]

My solicitor sent me to a psychiatrist in 2001 in connection with a vigilante rap I was due to appear in court on, no doubt he was hoping the shrink would find me nutty so that he could get me off on a "guilty but insane" plea, but to our surprise the shrink pronounced me SANE!
His written report concluded with something like- "Mr X's behaviour was appropriate throughout the interview, he is a strong-willed individual which would account for the trouble he now finds himself in with the police, and I can find no evidence that the balance of his mind was disturbed."

Lol!

So you didn't get off?

 

[Tidal]

I have seen fairly normal, intelligent people turned into shambling wrecks by the application of the chemical cosh.

Yup, I was turned into a zombie many years ago after I went to my doctor (a young woman just out of medical school) and told her I was feeling tired and sluggish, and our brief conversation went like a pantomime sketch-
"You're depressed" she said.
"No I'm not, honestly" I answered.
"Yes you are" she said.
"No, I'm just a bit tired" I replied.
"I'll prescribe Prozac anti-depressants for you" she said and handed me a prescription, so I gave up at that point and said goodbye.

I collected the Prozac tablets from the chemist and started taking them on the offchance she was right, but they made me feel woozy and on another planet, reality no longer seemed fixed and rigid but was all sky west and crooked, I dunno if they contained LSD or something, so I stopped taking them and got my brain back.

(Much later a new doctor blood-tested me and correctly diagnosed my tiredness as being caused by a "borderline underactive thyroid", but my original doctor had never tested me for it, she'd simply thrown Prozac at me)

 

[Tidal]

Lol!So you didn't get off?

No, like I've said before in VC and other forums I got a 3-month jail sentence in Leicester prison but at least it gives me bragging rights for life because it's the same nick that once held Mad Frankie Fraser and the Great Train Robbers, and 23 cons have been hung there over the past 200 years..

 

[justjess]

In a perfect world - or even just a minimally logically functioning world - anyone presenting for a mental health issue would get a full blood work up and other medical diagnostic tests to rule out a physical ailment prior to even assessing psychiatric issues. Again, insurance (of all sorts) does not work on this model because there is less profit from this model and because it costs more to implement.

 

[Tidal]

If I get sick I go to the dr, get treated like crap and fobbed off with some pills.

Remember everybody, THE INTERNET IS THE BEST DOCTOR AND SHRINK IN TOWN..
We can google our maladies and fully research them, so that if we go to the doc we'll know more about it than them, and can keep an eye on whether he's diagnosing us right, and giving us the proper meds.
We can even join discussion forums where we've all had the same illness and can compare notes..

 

[Mr.Anderson]

the stuff has been around since Lord Byron, nothing new with glamourizing depression and suicide.

Thing is, people are lazy. They prefer to take a pill than to act on the origin of the problem for most of times.

parents find it easier to drug their kids than to talk to them. stuff like that I see every day since im the 'drug dealer'.

 

[Cintra]

No, it's not true that only the well off get healthcare... that's a misconception. For emergencies, the uninsured can walk into any hospital and they will be cared for - that's the law. For most people, healthcare is covered by their workplace. The poor get benefits, and there are many social benefits available to those who qualify. People are not dying on the streets due to lack of emergency services and healthcare.

It's easy to prefer the system you're used to, I get that. I spoke to so many Brits about this and they had similar attitudes because they had never experienced anything else. Here the quality and level of healthcare is high... yes, even for the poor... and the wait times are a fraction of what they are in the U.K. There are always things that can be improved, but I would rather build on this competitive foundation which promotes medical breakthroughs and continual progress than go to a struggling system which which brings all medical care down to a lower standard.

I will move on, but I wanted to at least give you a more realistic view of U.S. healthcare since you had mentioned it.

Thank you!

I have said before that I get most of my US info off films and TV.
It is always good to know what is and isn't correct.

 

[Cintra]

Yup, I was turned into a zombie many years ago after I went to my doctor (a young woman just out of medical school) and told her I was feeling tired and sluggish, and our brief conversation went like a pantomime sketch-
"You're depressed" she said.
"No I'm not, honestly" I answered.
"Yes you are" she said.
"No, I'm just a bit tired" I replied.
"I'll prescribe Prozac anti-depressants for you" she said and handed me a prescription, so I gave up at that point and said goodbye.

I collected the Prozac tablets from the chemist and started taking them on the offchance she was right, but they made me feel woozy and on another planet, reality no longer seemed fixed and rigid but was all sky west and crooked, I dunno if they contained LSD or something, so I stopped taking them and got my brain back.

(Much later a new doctor blood-tested me and correctly diagnosed my tiredness as being caused by a "borderline underactive thyroid", but my original doctor had never tested me for it, she'd simply thrown Prozac at me)

I have had them, various types from the ssri family.

I get those electrical shocks when I stop taking them.
Really nasty things.

Glad you got a proper diagnosis in the end. Are you on thyroxin now? Or can you manage it in another way?

 

[justjess]

Thank you!

I have said before that I get most of my US info off films and TV.
It is always good to know what is and isn't correct.

I’ll give you a hint... you are going to get different versions of correct regarding the American situation depending on who you speak to. “Correct for me” Is a more accurate disclaimer.

 

[Cintra]

I’ll give you a hint... you are going to get different versions of correct regarding the American situation depending on who you speak to. “Correct for me” Is a more accurate disclaimer.

Thanks! Well said!
I think 'correct for me' should always be a disclaimer!

Peoples experiences of the NHS, and of psychiatric drugs are variable too.
Some people even find prozac helps them!