Psychedelics

Is it good to decriminalize psychedelics?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don’t know

  • Don’t care


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rainerann

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Yeah I’m kicking myself a little bit for not putting this thread in the religion section. I also think it has played a larger role in spiritual life than we realize in the present. I was reading about ayahuasca because it is one that is trending along with mushrooms since there are legal routes to taking these in the US at the moment.

there are multiple places that have decriminalized mushrooms and ayahuasca has some religious exemptions.

ayahuasca is all about the spiritual experience and there is this very shamanic vibe to it that is being marketed. It is advertised for the spiritual experience it provides, but this isn’t something that existed in a vacuum. Ayahuasca is dmt which means that the people in Peru just had access to a different source for the same substance that has been used for spiritual reasons throughout the world.

dmt is a somewhat common plant. https://tripsitter.com/plants-that-contain-dmt/

it can’t be coincidence that so many spiritual groups have been using this substance for thousands of years with the same result.

I really think it is a good thing happening among the chaos at the moment. I’m glad that you had a good experience with it @STARMAN
 

DavidSon

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Yeah I’m kicking myself a little bit for not putting this thread in the religion section. I also think it has played a larger role in spiritual life than we realize in the present. I was reading about ayahuasca because it is one that is trending along with mushrooms since there are legal routes to taking these in the US at the moment.

there are multiple places that have decriminalized mushrooms and ayahuasca has some religious exemptions.

ayahuasca is all about the spiritual experience and there is this very shamanic vibe to it that is being marketed. It is advertised for the spiritual experience it provides, but this isn’t something that existed in a vacuum. Ayahuasca is dmt which means that the people in Peru just had access to a different source for the same substance that has been used for spiritual reasons throughout the world.

dmt is a somewhat common plant. https://tripsitter.com/plants-that-contain-dmt/

it can’t be coincidence that so many spiritual groups have been using this substance for thousands of years with the same result.

I really think it is a good thing happening among the chaos at the moment. I’m glad that you had a good experience with it @STARMAN
I agree it's an important fact that our human ancestors had a connection to these varied plant substances. I certainly have more respect/trust for them than any cursed, man made drugs.

If you search there are a handful of older threads here at the forum with some interesting comments. :)

Syrian rue is another plant that has a long history of use throughout the Middle East and Africa. While not containing DMT, it is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor that allows DMT to be active orally (same as the Banisteriopsis caapi in ayahuasca). I think the wiki page is good and leads to a number of topics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

The Nexus is a fascinating website. There's actually a thread on Syrian rue there: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/

Have you seen the natgeo documentary on the Brazilian Church Santo Daime? I'm sure there are better videos but I was going to post it in another thread as it raises a lot of questions:

 

Maldarker

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Marijuana is a mild psychedelic drug that can get you to level 2 on the Leary scale.

Psilocybin is a moderate to strong psychedelic drug that at low doses can get you to level 2 up to potentially a level 5 experience.

What i should have phrased i have done LSD SHROOMS Some others but i don't have as good a background on the health benefits of them. I have an extensive knowledge base about Marijuana, but not other psychoactives. So that would be of interest. :)
 

rainerann

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DMT might be the fastest growing psychedelic drug out there, getting attention from the likes of Joe Rogan to more conventional academic types.

I’ve never tried it, too fast acting if smoked and I don’t like the dissociative effects that it has.

Ayahuasca is considered the “holy grail” of psychedelic experiences and I would consider DMT in that route.

I wasn’t aware that the US had any places to do it, but I know it’s now a tourist thing to many South American countries now.

There is a place in Arizona ( affiliated with LDS of all people ) that allows legal peyote trips under 1st amendment protections. I’ve always wanted to try that.

Denver and Oregon decriminalized mushrooms, I think Oregon decriminalized all drug use actually.

It’s good and I’m glad to see psychedelic research being taken up again, there are numerous universities, including Berkeley doing studies and there are dozens of companies doing authorized research.

The potential here is huge, if it’s not blocked by corporate interest these can potentially replace SSRI’s and change psychiatric treatment. Would be revolutionary and save lives.

It’s fascinating that all tribal cultures have a variation of a psychedelic drug. All religions stem from earlier shamanic practices so to me I believe the concept of religion goes hand in hand with altered states from these substances.

At some point along our path as a species, someone ate something, a mushroom, a dmt plant, a cactus or a rye mold and things were never the same.
yeah it’s not legal in the us on its own but people have gotten approval to use ayahuasca for spiritual reasons. They are usually called some kind of Native American church which isn’t really accurate since it is historic to Peru, but it makes sense that it is classified differently or that lsd doesn’t have religious exemption since there is the whole puking your guts your guts out expectation that can be considered a deterrent from excessive use. It is not something that you could use regularly unless you like to puke regularly.

you can microdose with it but that isn’t going to completely remove the experience of puking, but I would still prefer this to smoking dmt for the same reason. I don’t like that it is so quick.

They have places all of the country now to take it even in Kentucky. It will be interesting to see how this factor changes our culture going forward.

 

rainerann

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I agree it's an important fact that our human ancestors had a connection to these varied plant substances. I certainly have more respect/trust for them than any cursed, man made drugs.

If you search there are a handful of older threads here at the forum with some interesting comments. :)

Syrian rue is another plant that has a long history of use throughout the Middle East and Africa. While not containing DMT, it is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor that allows DMT to be active orally (same as the Banisteriopsis caapi in ayahuasca). I think the wiki page is good and leads to a number of topics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

The Nexus is a fascinating website. There's actually a thread on Syrian rue there: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/

Have you seen the natgeo documentary on the Brazilian Church Santo Daime? I'm sure there are better videos but I was going to post it in another thread as it raises a lot of questions:

that documentary clip is fascinating. I had not heard of that but I would be interested to look into that more. Singing seems like the perfect activity to engage in while taking it. Stretch the spiritual side with song and ayahuasca.

it is interesting that the clip mentions there is no drugs or alcohol in the group. That is one of the main points being advertised right now is that psychedelics can help with the experience of drug addiction.

this was one of the main things that caught my interest about the subject at first because overcoming drug addiction is really long and slow and requires a certain degree of self discipline for years and years. Possibly the rest of your life.

it makes perfect sense to me somehow that a psychedelic Can help in the process of letting go of this weight and the memory of drug addiction that people can hang onto even if they have been clean for years.

that’s kind of how I see these ceremonies. They are like letting go ceremonies which is a major problem in life sometimes. It is hard to let go of things. Most of the time, people find a way to rationalize the things they have trouble letting go of with some kind of reinforcement like a community that agrees with them or supports their views or some other kind of reinforcement when it becomes seemingly impossible to let go of something otherwise.

maybe we could really get rid of politics if we all could spend time singing and experiencing ayahuasca together. Wouldn’t that be something.

there are a few politicians I think could really benefit from the brew. This guy Rick perry used to really annoy me when he ran for president a while back. My gosh he was fake. Ayahuasca would be really good for people like him.

 

rainerann

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What i should have phrased i have done LSD SHROOMS Some others but i don't have as good a background on the health benefits of them. I have an extensive knowledge base about Marijuana, but not other psychoactives. So that would be of interest. :)
I don’t know very much about the chemical benefits of taking psychedelics. This is more or less my personal take from a couple of direct experiences in the past.

when I heard this, it made perfect sense that psychedelics were something that could help with trauma. It is hard to explain the limitations that exist cognitively after trauma and the effort that you have to expend to change habits caused by trauma. It is rather time consuming and exhausting.

this is one of the reasons treatments Like emdr are popular which stand for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It is the process of inducing rapid eye movements to process traumatic memories quicker because for one reason or the other, this is not a quick process otherwise.

this probably connects with the history of religion as a vehicle to present change to the otherwise stagnant experience of life. Where people seek control, you could say they really are just experiencing frustration over their inability to create change around them. It is like there is some kind of hardening that happens throughout life and that might be literal plaques in the brain or something like this that gets symbolized in different ways because the mind can visualize a comparison to this experience and have awareness that this is what is happening to the brain without having a different way to express this with language.

so chemically, I do expect that these substances create some kind of chemical metabolism or detoxification. I know people have suggested that ayahuasca is detoxifying the body in some way even if these ways are not specifically outlined yet.

so anyways, psychedelics work in a similar way that emdr works in my opinion. They create the opportunity for rapid processing through some kind of chemical metabolism and there is a visual experience that can further this appeal.

take for example, the experience of childhood and the experience of imagination that existed so that people like Santa Claus seemed real. This isn’t to suggest you should be able to believe in something that isn’t real, but picture that everyone is fighting in your house on Christmas. Someone is getting drunk and what it means to be able to believe Santa is real and visualize this in some way.

the point is that you enjoy Christmas much more than your drunk uncle with this experience of imagination. It is not a scientific example, but I hope it makes sense how having the opportunity to use imagination in the same way as a child would be beneficial to your health and well being.

I realize it is not a very scientific explanation. I think it will still be a few years before there will be a scientific explanation for the many personal stories that exist, but those are significant too. A common response to psychedelics is a scientific response, just like in any other drug trial really.
 

Apheirox

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what do you think?
The ´masses´aren´t grown up enough to deal with the Illuminati threat; are they grown up enough to use drugs? I suspect drugs are useful but it´s a dangerous thing to go experimenting with.
 

rainerann

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The ´masses´aren´t grown up enough to deal with the Illuminati threat; are they grown up enough to use drugs? I suspect drugs are useful but it´s a dangerous thing to go experimenting with.
thank you for your thoughts. What do you think would be the best approach to encourage maturation of the masses so that they would be able to deal with the Illuminati threat?

do you think that it takes maturity to face something threatening or the absence of fear?
 

rainerann

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I guess I was considering putting this subject in the religion spirituality section because of how there might be a relationship between experiencing psychedelics and success with an intention experiment.

I read the book the intention experiment a while back. It is all about testing whether thoughts are able to create spontaneous change around you. Not that psychedelics are required for this. It just seems like they would help create a visual representation of something you would like to exist in reality that would begin as a thought with intention.

on its own, this doesn’t require a religious discussion really. It actually only requires a religious discussion to create a defense from people who would otherwise be against it for religious reasons so that you could show that they Are often afraid of the boogie man and that they practice many of the same techniques all the time but they usually use different labels.

so maybe it is for the best that I didn’t do this. Anyways, Im interested in what people think about the relationship between intention and experience with psychedelics for creating change external to your own mind, body, spirit?
 
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i think the best intention or way to view ayahuasca, peyote, mushrooms, even marijuana, is the way original cultures looked at them - they are medicine. They are medicine for the soul. But we can be so sick spiritually, we take them and don’t heal. People get addicted to the experience, rahter than taking what the experience taught you and integrating it into your life, being healed by it in other words. I think all these plants have things they can teach us and heal in us but we have to meet them half way because ultimately our soul is under the control of our own will, we have to be healed from what is damaging us spiritually, which is usually fear, ignorance, often these two I think.

after I realized this I had some very healing experiences from marijuana. for A couple years in my late teens I used it every day, but after a long break and coming back to it a few times, I saw the message that was in marijuana, like a state of consciousness it wanted to remind us of. That is what we need to be healed, but states of consciousness come from our own comprehension and integration, so we need to learn from it and integrate its meaning. It was a message of the unity of life, very beautiful, but we can’t pretend that the unity of life only exists when we are on marijuana. But it taught me how and why cultures considered it to be a medicine.
 

Maldarker

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Guess depends on the outcome.
Check into studies of children & ESP and as you get older you lose that ability to "see" or "create" desired outcomes be it guessing coin flips very accurate or cards.
 
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