Prophetic Expectations

TokiEl

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The Arab-Israeli conflict stems from Arabs thinking they are entitled to the land of the God of Israel.


Leviticus 25 23"The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me."


The Muslims not only hijack Jesus but also the God of Israel. Somehow they make everything about them.

They twist and turn to fit the message of the Book into their ideology of taking over...


Now this is prophecied as they are the multitude of the Beast in the book of Revelation.
 

phipps

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A growing number of Christians believe that the literal nation of Israel will play a primary role in apocalyptic events leading up to a rapture of the saints and the second coming of Christ. Popular preachers have aimed telescopes at the Middle East and claim that Bible prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes. We certainly see signs of the times indicating that we are living in the last days, but does Scripture actually teach us that the actual city of Jerusalem will be central to the final events?

When it comes to solid principles for properly interpreting prophecy, some people bend the rules. It “sounds” so biblical to focus on the literal nation of Israel, but after Jesus came and fulfilled the purpose of the Jewish nation in His own life, the message of Scripture now guides us to spiritual Israel. God’s people are no longer defined by a particular country.

While literal Israel played an important role in bringing the message of God’s salvation to the world, Jesus’ death on the cross changed everything. The apostle Paul labours over this point, being a Jew himself, he carefully states, “For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham” (Romans 9:6, 7). Even Jesus chastised Jews who claimed salvation through lineage to Abraham, stating, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham” (John 8:39).

So while there is a literal Israel, God defines His true people as spiritual Israel. They are not measured by blood or ancestry. They are counted by faith in following Jesus. This is also true of two types of Jews. Paul says, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter” (Romans 2:28, 29).

God is looking for a people who are not seeking to build a physical temple in Jerusalem, but a spiritual temple in their own hearts. Only through the indwelling of God’s Spirit will we ever truly find peace.
 

gcha8e

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Yes, God doesn't want them to build another temple, so why are Christians excited at and supportive of that prospect? For me, the most terrifying thing he said was; if John could fall down in worship at the angel's feet what's actually going to happen when Satan shows up with dazzling brightness, impersonating Christ (probably as described in Rev 1:14-16)? The arch-deciever isn't sleeping and this is his craft. This is probably the strong delusion spoken about in 2 Thess 2:11

Anyway, its foreign policy now. This goes beyond Gen 12:3, money,resources and a "military outpost" in the ME. There is an over-arching purpose to their unwavering support for the existence of Israel. That's why what @Kung Fu said (in the Israel-Iran thread pg 11) makes all the more sense:
The temple Paul speaks about in Thessalonians where the "man of sin" will sit, is the temple of the human body. It is about humanistic worship, and man behaving as god, worshiping himself.

Paul's "mystery of lawlessness" is personified a verse or two later as the "man of sin". It is merely a widespread conspiracy to reject God's law and God's requirements for worship of Him only, and replacing it for the worship of man. Precisely what were' seeing today.

The whole rebuilt temple mantra is false false false prophecy. It's all part of the grand delusion. Solomon's temple cannot be rebuilt because it cannot be operated, it requires a theocracy!
 

Karlysymon

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The temple Paul speaks about in Thessalonians where the "man of sin" will sit, is the temple of the human body. It is about humanistic worship, and man behaving as god, worshiping himself.

Paul's "mystery of lawlessness" is personified a verse or two later as the "man of sin". It is merely a widespread conspiracy to reject God's law and God's requirements for worship of Him only, and replacing it for the worship of man. Precisely what were' seeing today.

The whole rebuilt temple mantra is false false false prophecy. It's all part of the grand delusion. Solomon's temple cannot be rebuilt because it cannot be operated, it requires a theocracy!
^That but i also add that the 'man of sin' correlates to the little horn of Daniel 7, that thought itself able to change settimes and laws. Entities that have usurped the place of God and have abrogated or edited His Moral Law, which is an expression of His character. To attack the Law is to attack God, Himself.

I will go out on a limb and say that i wouldn't be surprised at all, if it actually became a sin (that's right, a sin) to criticize Israel. They'll dig up those verses, alright. All these little developments here and there such as secular laws criminalizing criticism of Israel or the new Israeli state-law, will soon be 'religiously translated'. We are slowly getting there.

To the theocracy, we will go!

Like fundamentalism everywhere, the Jewish variety seeks to restore an ideal,imagined past. If it ever managed to do so, the Israel celebrated by the American “friends of Israel” as a “bastion of democracy in the Middle East” would, most assuredly, be no more. For, in its full and perfect form, the Jewish Kingdom that arose in its place would elevate a stern and wrathful God’s sovereignty over any new-fangled, heathen concepts such as the people’s will, civil liberties or human rights. It would be governed by the Halacha, or Jewish religious law, of which the rabbis would be the sole interpreters, and whose observance clerical commissars, installed in every public and private institution, would rigorously enforce, with the help of citizens legally obligated to report any offense to the authorities. A monarch, chosen by the rabbis, would rule and the Knesset would be replaced by a Sanhedrin, or supreme judicial, ecclesiastic and administrative council. Men and women would be segregated in public,and “modesty” in female dress and conduct would be enforced by law. Adultery would be a capital offense, and anyone who drove on the Sabbath, or desecrated it in other ways, would be liable to death by stoning. As for non-Jews, the Halacha would be an edifice of systematic discrimination against them, in which every possible crime or sin committed by a Gentile against a Jew, from murder or adultery to robbery or fraud, would be far more heavily punished than the same crime or sin committed by a Jew against a Gentile–if,indeed, the latter were considered to be a felony at all, which it often would not be. All forms of “idolatry or idol-worship,” but especially Christian ones (for traditionally Muslims, who are not considered to be idolaters, are held in less contempt than Christians), would be “obliterated,” in the words of Shas party leader Rabbi Ovadia Yossef.
According to conditions laid down by Maimonides, whose Halacha rulings are holy writ
to the fundamentalists, those
Gentiles, or so-called “Sons of
Noah,” permitted to remain in the Kingdom could only do so as “resident aliens,” obliged under law to accept the “inferiority” in perpetuity
which that status entails, to
“suffer the humiliation of
servitude,” and to be “kept down and not raise their heads to the Jews.” At weekday prayers, the faithful would intone the special curse: “And may the apostates have no hope, and all the Christians perish instantly.” One wonders what the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons think of all this; for it is strange, this new adoration by America’s
evangelicals of an Israel whose Jewish fundamentalists continue to harbor a doctrinal contempt for Christianity only rivaled by the contempt which the Christian fundamentalists reserve for the Jews
themselves.


https://www.thenation.com/article/pursuing-millennium/
 

TokiEl

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Remember the parable of the budding fig tree that Jesus told just before His crucifixion?

Matthew 24 32"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"


In the Pulpit Commentary which is a commentary on the Bible written in the 19th century the commentators end this verse with asking the question "Did he [Jesus] intend to symbolize the revival of the life of the withered Jewish race in the time of the end?"

So even before the Holocaust the Jews were a dying breed... and during that genocide they received a veritable death blow.

Before the Holocaust Christian scholars asked and if you listen in astonishment and disbelief "Did he intend to symbolize the revival of the life of the withered Jewish race in the time of the end?"

YES that's exactly what God intended !



Don't believe me ? Believe what He says !

Luke 21 24They [the Jews] will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.



You can whine and complain about it all you want but this is all going according to His book.
 
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phipps

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The devil has successfully planted a dangerous lie in Christian theology, and it has been unwittingly hatched, adopted, and nurtured by most evangelical churches. Today, millions of people the world over who are interested in Bible prophecy have their eyes fixed upon Jerusalem. Christians are constantly speculating about the modern state of Israel, a rebuilt Jewish temple, and a Middle East Armageddon. These subjects are being discussed in magazines, on videos, in books, on the radio, from the pulpit, in seminaries, on the Internet, and at Bible prophecy conferences.

It is amazing how many Christians automatically connect end-time Bible prophecies with the nation of Israel. For example, best-selling author Dave Hunt echoes these views on the back cover of his popular book, A Cup of Trembling. He writes: "Fast-moving events in the Middle East point almost daily toward the grand finale-the time of greatest suffering for the Jewish people worldwide, which will climax in the terrifying battle of Armageddon and the glorious return of Messiah to rescue Israel and reign over the world from David's re-established throne in Jerusalem."

This "Middle East" approach to prophecy became popular among mainline churches in the '80s with a series of books from the pen of Hal Lindsey. In his bestsellers The Late Great Planet Earth and Countdown to Armageddon, Mr. Lindsey employed this dispensational approach to prophecy, making several very specific predictions. The secret rapture of the church would occur in 1981, followed by the building of a new Jewish temple, the advent of the Antichrist, the great tribulation, the invasion of Israel, the battle of Armageddon, and the beginning of the millennium by 1988. In spite of the fact that all of these predictions fell flat, his books continue to sell. Worse still, the seeds of error they contain have sprouted and become firmly rooted in many churches.

While there are differences of opinion among evangelicals, the majority agree on the following five events as core prophecies:

The rebirth of the state of Israel in 1948.
A soon-coming "Seven-Year Period of Great Tribulation."
The rebuilding of the Jewish temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
The rise of the Antichrist during the tribulation, who will enter that temple and proclaim that he is God.
A final war against the nation of Israel, which will result in a Middle East battle of Armageddon.

It Has Happened Before!
Here is the big question. Are all of these end-time prophecies in Scripture regarding Israel and the temple speaking only of the literal nation of Jews and a physical building, or is there a deeper spiritual application?

Remember, when Jesus came the first time His own people misunderstood and misapplied the prophecies regarding His kingdom. They were eagerly waiting and watching for Him to establish a literal earthly kingdom. Jesus constantly tried to explain that His first coming was to establish a spiritual kingdom. He said, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20, 21.

But because the persistent and popular teachings of the day focused on a muscular Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and seat himself on David's throne, the disciples brushed aside Jesus' comments regarding His spiritual kingdom. They tried to make the spiritual prophecies literal, and their expectations were crushed by the cross. They lamented, "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." Luke 24:21. Even after His resurrection, the disciples were still clinging to these popular views and hoping for an imminent, literal kingdom. "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1:6.

Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!

The Name "Israel"
It is impossible to clearly understand the subject of Israel apart from a careful study of the Old Testament. The first time the name "Israel" appears in Scripture was when it was spoken to Jacob after his long night of wrestling with a powerful opponent. The heavenly stranger finally said, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28, emphasis added. Thus the name "Israel" was at first a name of heavenly origin applying to Jacob alone. It represented his spiritual victory over sin, through wrestling in prayer and claiming God's grace.

Jacob had 12 sons who later moved into Egypt. The descendants of these sons eventually multiplied into the 12 tribes that were forced into slavery by the Egyptians until the time of Moses. Then God told Pharaoh through Moses, "Israel is my son, even my firstborn. ... Let my son go." Exodus 4:22, 23. Note that here the name "Israel" is expanded to include Jacob's descendants. Therefore, the name "Israel" first applied to a victorious man, then to his people. We shall soon see why this is a very important point.

Israel, God's Son
About 800 B.C., the Lord spoke through the prophet Hosea, saying, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1. Yet by this time the nation of Israel had failed to live up to the spiritual meaning of its own name. This verse in Hosea will explode with tremendous importance in just a moment, when we look at the New Testament.

Approximately 800 years after Hosea's prophecy, "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king." Matthew 2:1. Because Herod was threatened by this new child king, he sent soldiers who "slew all the children that were in Bethlehem." Verse 16. Joseph was warned of the impending crisis in advance. "The angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word." Verse 13. So the holy family arose and "departed into Egypt." Verse 14.

Matthew writes that little Jesus remained in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Verse 15. Notice that Matthew is quoting Hosea 11:1, which originally referred to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt, yet now he declares it "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ! Here Matthew is beginning to reveal a truly shocking principle that he develops throughout his Gospel.

For example, one time after healing a group of people, Jesus modestly "charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Greek for Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets." Matthew 12:16-19, emphasis added. Here the Gospel writer is quoting Isaiah 42:1-3, a passage that originally applied to "Israel, ... my servant." Isaiah 41:8, emphasis added. But Matthew again tells us it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ!

The apostle Paul also followed the principle of applying statements originally made about the nation of Israel to Jesus Christ. God called Israel "my firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. Yet Paul said it was Jesus Christ who is "the firstborn of every creature." Colossians 1:15.

The clearest example of them all is where God called Israel "the seed of Abraham." Isaiah 41:8. Yet Paul later wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many," but to "one, ... which is Christ." Galatians 3:16, emphasis added. Thus we discover that over and over in the New Testament, statements that originally applied to the nation of Israel are applied to Jesus Christ. The Messiah is now "the seed." Therefore Jesus is the very essence of Israel! This is an explosive truth!

A very careful study of the first book of the New Testament reveals that Christ actually repeated the history of ancient Israel, point by point, and overcame where they had failed. Notice the following amazing parallels between the history of ancient Israel and of Jesus Christ:

In the Old Testament, a young man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to preserve his family alive (Genesis 45:5). In the New Testament we find another Joseph, who likewise had dreams and then went to Egypt to preserve his family (Matthew 2:13).
When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exodus 4:22. When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew 2:15.
When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. The apostle Paul says they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2. Jesus was also baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately afterward God proclaimed Him, "my beloved Son" (Matthew 3:15-17).
After the Israelites went through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Matthew 4:1, 2).
At the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy. At the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted Satan's temptations by quoting three Scriptures-all from Deuteronomy!
In Psalm 80:8, God calls Israel a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt." Yet Jesus later declared, "I am the true vine." John 15:1. In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to one man, to Jacob. It represented Jacob's spiritual victory over sin. Even so, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin!

A New Nation
Yet there is more. Remember that the name "Israel" not only referred to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is seen in the New Testament.

For example, the Lord had told the ancient Israelites, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:6. In the New Testament, Peter applies these exact words to the church: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." 1 Peter 2:9.

Likewise, right after Paul's statement in Galatians chapter 3 about Jesus being "the seed," he then told his Gentile converts [a Gentile is any person who is not of the Jewish faith], "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to Jesus Christ, but also to those who are born in Christ-His church! In other words, all true Christians are now God's spiritual Israel.

Double Vision
Have you ever been hit hard on the head and then started seeing double? Well, from what we have studied, the Christian world needs a loving bonk on the head with this New Testament truth so that more people will start "seeing double" about the subject of Israel! According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (Romans 9:3, 4). The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. That is, not all are part of God's spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continued, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:8. The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today any person-Jew or Gentile-can become a part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.

God Looks on the Heart
Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews: (1) Jews who are only natural descendants of Abraham, and (2) Jews in the Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God. ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29.

Did you catch that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is "called a Jew" because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, "is not a Jew." His "circumcision is made "uncircumcision." Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteousness of the law," his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew. John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. "Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:8, 9.

Later Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. "They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." John 8:39, 44, emphasis added.

Paul wrote, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3. Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody-Jew or Gentile-who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!

Eventually this truth hit Peter between the eyes, and he told a room full of Gentile converts, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34, 35.

All Israel Saved?
Since we've gone this far, we may as well go all the way! Only Jews will be saved. Furthermore, all Jews will be saved! Now after you pick yourself up off the floor, allow us to explain these bold statements.

We all know that we are saved under the new covenant, right? Notice the wording of the new covenant: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." Jeremiah 31:31, emphasis added. And in the book of Hebrews, Paul expands on this concept: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." Hebrews 8:8, 10-12, emphasis added.

The new covenant is made "with the house of "Israel"! God never makes a salvation covenant with Gentiles. In fact, nowhere in Scripture do you find any saving covenant made with anyone but Israelites! So if you want to be saved, you must be born again, as a spiritual Jew. This is not to say that all Christians must now be circumcised and sacrifice lambs, but we must have the spiritual equivalent of these things-Jesus, the Lamb of God, and circumcision of the heart.

God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different brand for non-Jews. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program. By grace through faith. Paul used the analogy of an olive tree to explain that all Gentiles who are saved are grafted into the stock of Israel. "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root [supports] thee." Romans 11:17, 18.

The Christian religion is based on a Jewish manual called the Bible. (In light of this fact, it is extremely difficult to understand how any real Christian could be anti-Semitic.) Christianity is not a new religion, but rather the completion of the Jewish faith.

With this truth in mind, we can now better understand what Paul meant when he said, "And so all Israel shall be saved." Romans 11:26. Some have taken this verse to mean that God will ultimately save all literal Jews. If this were true, it would contradict every principle of God's dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture. God is not a racist. In Jesus' eyes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek." Galatians 3:28.

We are saved based on choices we make regarding God's provision, not on national status or physical citizenship. But if when Paul says that "all Israel will be saved" he is speaking of spiritual Israel, and if we understand that we become a "true Jew" only by a choice, then it all makes sense.

The Application to Prophecy
How does all of this apply to prophecy? The greatest book about prophecy, the book of Revelation, talks about Mount Zion, Israel, Jerusalem, the temple, the Euphrates, Babylon, and Armageddon. Thus it is clear that Revelation uses the terminology of the Middle East in its prophecies. Yet what is happening right now all over planet Earth is that sincere Christians are automatically applying these prophecies to literal places in the Middle East and to the modern nation of Jews. Yet once we grasp the New Testament principles brought out in this article, we should be able to see that there is "something wrong with this picture." It is like seeing error messages pop up on our computer screens! The truth is that Revelation centres around Jesus Christ and God's Israel in the Spirit, not the Israel of the flesh!

Never forget that "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3.

Share with others the truth that now "there is neither Jew nor Greek, ... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:28, 29.

Let us not live in the flesh or accept popular teachings that focus on an earthly state. Rather, let us live in the Spirit. Like Jacob of old, let us wrestle in prayer and cling to Jesus until by faith we hear Him say, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@phipps

"Here is the big question. Are all of these end-time prophecies in Scripture regarding Israel and the temple speaking only of the literal nation of Jews and a physical building, or is there a deeper spiritual application?"

Either, Or or Both and...

"Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat.​
"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"​
"All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain."​
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

As applied to scripture...

4 Levels of Scripture Understanding

The PASHAT is the keystone of Scripture understanding. If we discard the PASHAT we lose any real chance of an accurate under standing. We are left with a no-holds-barred game of pure imagination in which we are no longer objectively deriving mean ing from the Scriptures (exogesis), but subjectively read ing meaning into the scriptures (eisogesis) (see 2 Peter 1:20–21; 1Tim. 4:3–4). Thus the Talmud twice warns us: “No passage loses its PASHAT” (From below) NOTE:Amos37 does not support any document outside of the scripture except for gaining a historical understanding. Strictly as a historical commentary. Many today read it as if it is inspired.

4 Levels of Scripture Understanding

The Hebrew/Aramaic word PARDES is spelled in Hebrew and Aramaic with out vowels as PRDS. PaRDeS refers to a park or garden, esp. the Garden of Eden. The word appears three times in the Aramaic New Testament (Lk. 23:43; 2Cor. 12:4& Rev. 2:7).

The word PRDS is also an acronym (called in Judaism “notarikon”) for:

Pashat (Heb. “sim ple”)
Remez (Heb. “hint”)
Drash (Heb. “search”)
Sod (Heb. “hidden”)

These are the four levels of under stand ing the scriptures. Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion.

PASHAT

The first level of understanding is PASHAT (simple). The Pashat is the literal meaning. It is similar to what Protestant hermeneutics calls “Grammatical Historical Exogesis” and also similar to what Protestant Hermeneutics calls “The Literal Principle.”

The PASHAT is the plain, simple meaning of the text; understanding scripture in its natural, normal sense using the customary meanings of the words being used, in accordance with the primary exegetical rule in the Talmud that no passage loses its PASHAT (b.Shab. 63a; b.Yeb. 24a). While there is figurative language (like Ps. 36:7) symbolism (like Rom. 5:14); allegory (like Gal. 4:19–31) and hidden meanings (like Rev. 13:18; see also 1Cor. 2:7) in the Scriptures, the first thing to look for is the literal meaning or PASHAT.

The following rules of thumb can be used to determine if a passage is figurative and therefore figurative even in its PASHAT:

When an inanimate object is used to describe a living being, the statement is figurative. (Example: Prov. 18:10)

When life and action are attrib uted to an inanimate object the statement is figuartive. (Example: same example Prov. 18:10)

When an expression is out of character with the thing described, the statement is figurative. (Example: Ps. 17:8)

The PASHAT is the key stone of Scripture understanding. If we dis card the PASHAT we lose any real chance of an accurate under standing. We are left with a no-holds-barred game of pure imagination in which we are no longer objectively deriving meaning from the Scriptures (exogesis), but subjectively read ing meaning into the scriptures (eisogesis) (see 2Pt. 1:20–21; 1Tim. 4:3–4). Thus the Talmud twice warns us: “No passage loses its PASHAT” (b.Shab. 63a; b.Yeb. 24a).
REMEZ

The next level of understanding is called in Hebrew REMEZ (hint). This is the implied mean ing of the text. Peculiarities in the text are regarded as hinting at a deeper truth than that conveyed by its PASHAT.

An example of implied “REMEZ” mean ing may be found in Ex. 21:26–26 -27 where we are told of our liability regard ing eyes and teeth. By the “REMEZ” under stand ing we know that this lia bil ity also applies to other body parts.

DRASH

Another level of understanding the Scriptures is called in Hebrew “drash” meaning “search”, this is the allegorical, typological or homiletical application of the text. Creativity is used to search the text in rela tion to the rest of the Scrip tures, other literature, or life itself in order to develop an allegorical, typological or homiletical application of the text. This process involves eisogesis (reading of the text) of the text.

Three important rules of thumb in utilizing the drash level of under stand ing a scrip ture are:

[1] A drash under stand ing can not be used to strip a pas sage of its PASHAT meaning, nor may any such understanding contradict any PASHAT mean ing of any other scripture passage. As the Talmud states “No passage loses its PASHAT.” (b. Shab. 63a; b.Yeb. 24a)

[2] Let scripture interpret scripture. Look for the scriptures them selves to define the components of an allegory. For example use Mt. 12:18–23 to under stand Mt. 13:3–9; Rev. 1:20 to under stand Rev. 1:12–16; Rev. 17:7–18 to understand Rev. 17:2–8 ect…

[3] The primary components of an allegory represent specific realities. We should limit ourselves to these primary components when understand ing the text.

EXAMPLES OF DRASH UNDERSTANDINGS:

Mt. 2:15 on Hosea 11:1
Mt. 3:11 on Is. 40:3
Rom. 5:14 (14–21) on Gen. 3:1–24
I Cor. 4:6
Gal. 4:24(21–31) on Gen. 17–22
Col 2:17
Heb. 8:5 on priesthood
Heb. 9:9 24 on the Tabernacle
Heb. 10:1 on the Torah
Heb. 11:19 on Gen. 22:1f
1Pt. 3:21 on Gen. 6–9

SOD

The final level of under standing the Scriptures is called in Hebrew “SOD” meaning “hidden”. This understanding is the hidden, secret or mystic meaning of a text. (See I Cor. 2:7–16 esp. 2:7). This process often involves returning the letters of a word to their prime-material state and giving them new form in order to reveal a hidden meaning. An example may be found in Rev. 13:18 where the identity of the Beast is expressed by its numeric value 666.
_______________
Dr. James Trimm

https://amos37.com/4-levels/
 
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phipps

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@phipps

"Here is the big question. Are all of these end-time prophecies in Scripture regarding Israel and the temple speaking only of the literal nation of Jews and a physical building, or is there a deeper spiritual application?"

Either, Or or Both and...

"Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat.​


"What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"​


"All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain."​

J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit
There is a deeper spiritual application definitely.
 

TokiEl

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The Jews because of their sins which cup was full were supposed to reject the Messiah... be conquered slaughtered and scattered around the world. So far so good or bad... bad for the Jews but good for the Gentiles. God was now globally available in a Personal capacity on a personal level.

Now the contention is if the Jews were supposed to return to His land or not. True there has been nothing but trouble in the Middle East after their return... but that fact is not necessarily an indication that they were not supposed to return. Now you tell me how a handful of Holocaust survivors on day 2 of their independence managed to defend against and defeat àll neighboring Arab armies. Are they ubermenschen ?

Two more times in 1967 and 1973 the combined Arab armies tried to invade Israel... but no luck ? Maybe the Muslims were just unlucky these three times ? That must be it right ?

Is God surprised that the residue of Jews returned to His land and stubbornly defend it ?
 
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Karlysymon

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That was a great post @phipps

You said:
Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!
A resounding yes! But the question that should be asked here is; why is the church making that mistake? Its understandable that the 1st century Jews made mistakes (couldn't accept a dying Messiah) because they wanted the glory days of David and Solomon back, before the rending of the kingdom or the exile. Inotherwords collective motive drove them into error. Fast foward to today, what does the average Christian have to gain from a 'return of the Jews'? There isn't any solid reason at all apart from it being harbinger of the end of days. That isn't even solid enough to warrant such a grave mistake. Unsurprisingly, thats the way it has been sold to us. If it wasn't some sort of marker, no one would care if they had a homeland. Geopolitically, though, entities are making a killing from the creation of Israel; quick example is the oil in the Golan heights, stolen from Syria. Entities with much to gain simply drew upon Christian heartstrings.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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That was a great post @phipps



A resounding yes! But the question that should be asked here is; why is the church making that mistake? Its understandable that the 1st century Jews made mistakes (couldn't accept a dying Messiah) because they wanted the glory days of David and Solomon back, before the rending of the kingdom or the exile. Inotherwords collective motive drove them into error. Fast foward to today, what does the average Christian have to gain from a 'return of the Jews'? There isn't any solid reason at all apart from it being harbinger of the end of days. That isn't even solid enough to warrant such a grave mistake. Unsurprisingly, thats the way it has been sold to us. If it wasn't some sort of marker, no one would care if they had a homeland. Geopolitically, though, entities are making a killing from the creation of Israel; quick example is the oil in the Golan heights, stolen from Syria. Entities with much to gain simply drew upon Christian heartstrings.
So, just so I understand correctly, modern Israel is more of a "double bluff", a kind of satanic pastiche of Bible prophecy, with the real Jews still waiting for the promise of Isaiah 66?
 

TokiEl

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Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!
Now the Evangelical expectation is that the Antichrist will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the State of Israel but will break it after 3.5 years and set himself up as a global dictator in a rebuilt third temple in Jerusalem.

This is not Scriptural at all but just jumping to conclusions.

So there is a danger that people will be caught unaware what time it is... since they are waiting for this said Evangelical expectation to play out.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Now the Evangelical expectation is that the Antichrist will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the State of Israel but will break it after 3.5 years and set himself up as a global dictator in a rebuilt third temple in Jerusalem.

This is not Scriptural at all but just jumping to conclusions.

So there is a danger that people will be caught unaware what time it is... since they are waiting for this said Evangelical expectation to play out.
I think the interpretation is based on Daniel 9:27 (preceding verses quoted for context)

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Karlysymon

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So, just so I understand correctly, modern Israel is more of a "double bluff", a kind of satanic pastiche of Bible prophecy, with the real Jews still waiting for the promise of Isaiah 66?
@phipps post was really good and it does answer some of your questions. The promises only refer to one entity/group of people. Its up to you to settle on who that is; spiritual Israel or the blood descendants and the implications thereof.
To me, satan hijacked the prophecies and 'went on tour'.

@TokiEl
We all don't know exactly how things are going to play out down to the last detail. One thing for sure is Christ's clear warning in Matthew 24:24. A false christ is coming, with great signs and wonders. Whether he signs a treaty (i don't believe in a 7yr tribulation) or not isn't really relevant. What is relevant is to know that he is coming and to have a proper understanding of the scriptures inorder not to be decieved when he speaks.

"To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn". isaiah 8:19-20
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Karlysymon

"Its up to you to settle on who that is; spiritual Israel or the blood descendants and the implications thereof."

I think God has definite plans for both groups. Ultimately there will be just one group, but for now Israel is blind in part as to the identity of their Messiah.

I know this is where we differ, but compared to the central importance of the Gospel, this issue is actually one time will take care of and from an eternal perspective one we will look back on and wonder how we all came to such different conclusions!
 
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TokiEl

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I think the interpretation is based on Daniel 9:27 (preceding verses quoted for context)

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Yes. Do you see any peace treaty there between the Antichrist and Israel ? I see a treaty or covenant between the coming prince of Rome (the pope) and many nations... like the United Nations.
 
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TokiEl

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@TokiEl
We all don't know exactly how things are going to play out down to the last detail. One thing for sure is Christ's clear warning in Matthew 24:24. A false christ is coming, with great signs and wonders. Whether he signs a treaty (i don't believe in a 7yr tribulation) or not isn't really relevant. What is relevant is to know that he is coming and to have a proper understanding of the scriptures inorder not to be decieved when he speaks.
Well the whole world is ripe and ready to be deceived.



Revelation 13 11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Yes. Do you see any peace treaty there between the Antichrist and Israel ? I see a treaty or covenant between the coming prince of Rome and many nations... like the United Nations.
I think, given the information in Daniel, I see a future seven year period, with a key event at the mid point. I suspect Rome will be involved. I suspect Israel may be seduced (perhaps by the offer of regional peace and a Temple) but I have no definite picture on the details. That having been said I do keep my eye on events in the region more than I have in my whole life as additional factors are now in play.

Who would have thought even five years ago that Isaiah 17 could actually be a news item one morning, Jeremiah's prophecy of Elam might be on the horizon, or the previously unlikely alliance of Turkey, Iran and Russia could be jockeying to take their place in Ezekiel 38?

Who knows what or when anything might happen. I think the main thing if and when it does is to know who you believe in and where you are going.
 

phipps

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@phipps post was really good and it does answer some of your questions. The promises only refer to one entity/group of people. Its up to you to settle on who that is; spiritual Israel or the blood descendants and the implications thereof.
To me, satan hijacked the prophecies and 'went on tour'.
Its dangerous to settle on what we think about any prophecies in the Bible. We should let the Bible be its own interpreter and that happens through deep study of the Bible. Of course we have to pray and ask God to understand what we study. God will always lead us to the right route to help us understand prophecy especially end time prophecy. Yes, Satan has hijacked the prophecies and everything else in Christianity but there is a pure truth, the only truth in the Bible and its available to all of us if we want it. All we have to do is trust God.
 

TokiEl

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I think, given the information in Daniel, I see a future seven year period, with a key event at the mid point. I suspect Rome will be involved. I suspect Israel may be seduced (perhaps by the offer of regional peace and a Temple) but I have no definite picture on the details. That having been said I do keep my eye on events in the region more than I have in my whole life as additional factors are now in play.

Who would have thought even five years ago that Isaiah 17 could actually be a news item one morning, Jeremiah's prophecy of Elam might be on the horizon, or the previously unlikely alliance of Turkey, Iran and Russia could be jockeying to take their place in Ezekiel 38?

Who knows what or when anything might happen. I think the main thing if and when it does is to know who you believe in and where you are going.
No doubt old prophecies written down long ago are finally finding their fulfillments.

You know i think that the covenant spoken of in Daniel was fulfilled when the pope of Rome and the United Nations on 25 Sept 2015 agreed on the global governance program called the Sustainable Development Goals.

That means if i am correct that we are just half a year from the mid point... when some sort of destruction is foretold.

I hope i'm not right... but i think it's time.
 
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