Prophetic Expectations

[Karlysymon]

@Karlysymon

"Its up to you to settle on who that is; spiritual Israel or the blood descendants and the implications thereof."

I think God has definite plans for both groups. Ultimately there will be just one group, but for now Israel is blind in part as to the identity of their Messiah.

I know this is where we differ, but compared to the central importance of the Gospel, this issue is actually one time will take care of and from an eternal perspective one we will look back on and wonder how we all came to such different conclusions!

It may seem unimportant to the overall central theme of the gospel but think about it this way; imagine us both in the 1st century, arguing on a street corner over whether Christ will come as a "muscle Messiah" or as a "dying Messiah". Keeping in mind that its the same now as it was then; there were people like Prophetess Anna and Simon compared to others who believed otherwise. The latter ended up infront of Pilates's judgement seat, crying "Crucify Him".

Eternal interests are at stake here.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

 

[cfowen]

Yes. Do you see any peace treaty there between the Antichrist and Israel ? I see a treaty or covenant between the coming prince of Rome (the pope) and many nations... like the United Nations.

There is no Israel, in God's eyes, today, She was set aside 1955 years ago. Just look. No temple. No sacrifice. No Law. The Talmud replaced the Torah. Israel is Lo-ammi, "Not my people" today - Hos 1:9. Israel must always keep the law to be God's chosen people, but it's impossible for them to keep the law without a temple. They are no different than Gentiles, today, in God's eyes

For 2000 years, God put Israel on hold and He has been calling out Gentiles (and those few Jews who believe in Christ) to fill the Highest Heaven, as found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. The Gentiles are the chosen people today, Eph 1:4. If Jews wants salvation today, they essentially have to become as a Gentile and believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the opposite of the 1st 2000 years, from Gen 12 through Acts, when Israel were the only chosen people and the Gentiles had to become a Jew (proselyte) to receive any blessings. There was a short period of time, from Ac 10 thru ac 28, 25 years, where the Gentiles shared some of Israel's blessings, but they had to be grafted into Israel to get those blessings .For the first time in history, the Gentiles have blessings of their own, without being attached to Israel in any way whatsoever. Abraham is not our Father and the New Jerusalem is not our Mother. We are not spiritual Israel and we are not grafted into Israel. Our blessings, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, are infinitely better that anything ever given to Israel.

The last (Gentiles) shall be first, and the first (Israel) shall be last. That is how it is now and that will change back to a total focus on Israel in about 50 years.

Then,
---The present day Gentile Church will be resurrected to the Highest Heaven, at the Appearing,
---Elijah will then return and completely restore things (the earth back to 1st century times, I think).
---Then, Israel's Kingdom of Heaven, which could last as long as 700 years.
---Then the tribulation.and, at the end of it,
---Israel's rapture at Christ's Coming
---then the Millennium.
---Then the Apocalypse,
---the White Throne Judgment,
---the New Heavens and Earth.
---The New Jerusalem then comes down out of Heaven and parks on the New Earth.
---The marriage between the Bride = New Jerusalem residents and the Groom = Christ plus His actual Body (see Eph 5:30), today's Gentile Church, where He is the Head of the Body (us). The marriage itself will be in the New Jerusalem
---Then, God becomes all in all.

I still haven't settled on when the nation of Israel (the valley of dry Bones), the occupants of the land, will be resurrected.

These are my thots at 5::56 PM, CDT, 8/24/18. This could all change at a moment's notice. I already see where I may have left a couple of things out

Since OT prophecy always involves Israel, and since there is no Israel today, it is impossible that any fulfillment of OT prophecy has taken place since 70AD. But Israel will be back in about 2063 or 2070, when the 2000 years is up. Then, the very first thing that will happen is that we, the actual Body of Jesus Christ, Eph 5:30, where He is the Head will be in the Highest Heaven. Then, on earth, the fulfillment of prophecy concerning Israel will once again take place.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There is no Israel, in God's eyes, today, She was set aside 1955 years ago. Just look. No temple. No sacrifice. No Law. The Talmud replaced the Torah. Israel is Lo-ammi, "Not my people" today - Hos 1:9. Israel must always keep the law to be God's chosen people, but it's impossible for them to keep the law without a temple.

For 2000 years, God put Israel on hold and He has been calling out Gentiles to fill the Highest Heaven, as found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. The Gentiles are chosen today, Eph 1:4. If a Jew wants salvation, today, they essentially have to be a Gentile and believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the opposite of the 1st 2000 years, from Gen 12 through Acts, when Israel were the only chosen people and the Gentiles had to become a Jew (proselyte) to receive any blessings. There was a short period of time, from Ac 10 thru ac 28, 25 years, where the Gentiles shared some of Israel's blessings, but they had to be grafted into Israel to get those blessings.

The last (Gentiles) shall be first, and the first (Israel) shall be last. That is how it is now and that will change back in about 50 years.

Then,
---The present day Gentile Church will be resurrected to the Highest Heaven, at the Appearing,
---Elijah will then return and completely restore things (the earth back to 1st century times, I think).
---Then, Israel's Kingdom of Heaven, which could last as long as 700 years.
---Then the tribulation.and, at the end of it,
---Israel's rapture at Christ's Coming
---then the Millennium.
---Then the Apocalypse,
---the White Throne Judgment,
---the New Heavens and Earth.
---The New Jerusalem then comes down out of Heaven and parks on the New Earth.
---The marriage between the Bride = New Jerusalem residents and the Groom = Christ plus His actual Body (see Eph 5:30), today's Gentile Church, where He is the Head of the Body (us). The marriage itself will be in the New Jerusalem
---Then, God becomes all in all.

I still haven't settled on when the nation of Israel (the valley of dry Bones), the occupants of the land, will be resurrected.

These are my thots at 5::56 PM, CDT, 8/24/18. This could all change at a moment's notice. I already see where I may have left a couple of things out

Since OT prophecy always involves Israel, and since there is no Israel, no fulfillment of prophecy has taken place since 70AD. But Israel will be back in about 2063 or 2070, when the 2000 years is up. Then, the fulfillment of prophecy will once again take place.

Thank you for restating your view again so clearly. As this sets out timescales and events in line with your expectations, it is interesting to be aware of in the context of the purpose of this thread.

 

[TokiEl]

I still haven't settled on when the nation of Israel (the valley of dry Bones), the occupants of the land, will be resurrected.

God foretold the Holocaust (Greek word for burnt offering) in the last two verses in Ezekiel 36.


Ezekiel 36 37"‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock.

38“Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.” ’ ”




In the first verses in Ezekiel 37 the house of Israel is depicted as very dry bones. And with resurrection tones God raises the dry bones and clothes them in sinews flesh blood and breath. Although the resurrection imagery is employed here it is not the actual resurrection event. But it is an absolute miracle what God has done for them. (I may as well mention that there are about 6 million Jews in Israel today).


Eze 37:11Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’

12“Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13“Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves.

14“I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’ ”




And in Ezekiel 38 they are attacked by a GogMagog confederacy...

 

[phipps]

I'm sorry this is going to be quite long.

In the Bible there are two deaths and two resurrections. The first death will be the death the people die here on earth and second will be eternal death for the unrighteous. After Jesus returns, the dead in Christ will be raised. 1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: The rest of the dead (the unrighteous) will stay dead. Jesus says in John 5:28-29, Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. He talks of two resurrections: "the resurrection of life," and "the resurrection of damnation." Although the two events will separated by a thousand years. The followers of God are to be raised at the first resurrection, or “the resurrection of life.” The rejecters of God will not be raised until the thousand years are finished, at the second resurrection or “the resurrection of damnation.” Revelation 20:5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

1 Thessalonians 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The righteous Christians who are alive will rise to meet the Lord in the air. The living righteous will not taste death, but will be translated as Enoch and Elijah were (Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11). I can't imagine how that will feel.

I like how 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 describes the changes that will happen at the last trumpet. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The living unrighteous will be destroyed. Revelation 6:15-17, And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Zephaniah 1:2-3, I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the Lord. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the Lord. Read Jeremiah 4:23-28, Psalm 21:10, 37:10, 110:5-6; Isaiah 24:1-3, Hebrews10:26-27, Revelation 6:15-17 too.

So no one will be alive in this earth except Satan. Satan will be chained for a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3, And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. The terrible devastation which occurs at the Second coming (see Revelation 16:17-21), leaves the earth devastated and uninhabited. With no human left alive to tempt, Satan is unable to continue with his work of evil. God has bound him so that he can work no more mischief. The Chains are not literal since metal chains cannot bind a spirit.

The Bible tells us God's people will reign with Christ for a thousand years with Christ. Revelation 20:4, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 6:2 that God's people will one day judge the world. This is the second phase of the judgement (there are three judgements in the Bible). Jesus had already judged before He came back with His rewards for those who were to be with Him eternally and those whose lives were damned. The second phase of judgement is for the righteous to see that God is just in His dealings with us. If, by God's grace we are among the faithful ones taken by Jesus to the place He has been preparing, we may be surprised to find both who is there and who is missing. But we shall see that God is just.

At the end of the thousand years, the rest of the dead (the wicked), will be raised again for condemnation. That will be the second resurrection. Revelation 20:5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Once the wicked are resurrected, Satan will take up his work of deceiving the nations again. So the nations are all Satan's followers. His success in deceiving them is shown in the fact that they rise from the dead with the same attitudes they manifested before the died. They hated God and His people before they died and they still hate them. So they try to attack the camp of the saints, the beloved city. This shows that God's people return from our Father's house to earth at the end of the thousand years. Revelation 20:7-9, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Bible tells us how God's people will return to earth at the end of the thousand years. God's people return to earth from heaven as the new Jerusalem, the bride of Christ. Revelation 20:9-10, And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. God's people are frequently described as the bride of Christ in the Bible. (See Revelation 19:7-8, 2 Corinthians 11:2, and Isaiah 54:5).

Satan's attack will not succeed. Fire comes down heaven and devours Satan and his followers. This is the second death. But before their final everlasting destruction, they are judged (the third and final judgement) by God's infallible books which record with terrible precision the actions, words, and thoughts of men. No one can argue with these records. The wicked will acknowledge the justice of God as they face the record of their lives. Revelation 20:11-15, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The destruction of the wicked will be total and eternal: "everlasting destruction", Paul called it in 2 Thessalonians 1:9. Malachi 4:1, For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. The fires will totally destroy all traces of evil for ever. There are many Christians who are convinced that even the wicked will be given eternal life and be preserved alive forever to be punished, and will not suffer everlasting destruction. They speak of the wicked living forever in hell. But the Bible says eternal life is only for those who believe in Jesus. The rest will perish.

Hell will be here on earth and once all vestiges of sin have been forever destroyed, the Lord will make all things new. A new creation will take place. All places which Satan polluted with his presence will be made new. The whole universe will be clean once more. It will be wonderful to witness the creation of the new heaven and the new earth. The basic difference between this and the first creation will be that the crowning act of the first creation, the creation of mankind, will no longer be necessary. Those who will inhabit this new earth are being recreated already by the power of the Gospel. And we are promised that memories of this old world of sin will not return to trouble us. Isaiah 65:17, For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Revelation 21:1, And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:4, And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Since sin entered our world, all things mentioned in this verse, death, sorrow, crying and pain, have been part of human experience. How wonderful it will be to see an end to these things forever. God has promised that affliction shall not rise up the second time. Nahum 1:9, What do ye imagine against the Lord? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. From Jesus the creator, will flow life and light and gladness. All creatures from the tiniest to the greatest, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, will declare that God is love.

 

[TokiEl]

So no one will be alive in this earth except Satan. Satan will be chained for a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3, And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. The terrible devastation which occurs at the Second coming (see Revelation 16:17-21), leaves the earth devastated and uninhabited. With no human left alive to tempt, Satan is unable to continue with his work of evil. God has bound him so that he can work no more mischief. The Chains are not literal since metal chains cannot bind a spirit.

I am reminded of the words So the last shall be the first for many be called but few chosen when i read Revelation 20:4-6. It seems to me that those who are part in the first resurrection lived and died for their faith in Jesus Christ during the end time beast system.



Revelation 20 4"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

 

[phipps]

I am reminded of the words So the last shall be the first for many be called but few chosen when i read Revelation 20:4-6. It seems to me that those who are part in the first resurrection lived and died for their faith in Jesus Christ during the end time beast system.



Revelation 20 4"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

Those who will be raised in the first resurrection are all the dead righteous from the beginning of the world, not just during the end time beast system. They include those who are mentioned in Revelation 20:4 too. The second resurrection and death will be for those who are damned to hell and to everlasting destruction.

 

[TokiEl]

Those who will be raised in the first resurrection are all the dead righteous from the beginning of the world, not just during the end time beast system. They include those who are mentioned in Revelation 20:4 too. The second resurrection and death will be for those who are damned to hell and to everlasting destruction.

Remember when Jesus exhaled and went down to the pit to set the captives free ?

As you can see in Rev 20:4-6 only those who lived and died during the end time beast system are mentioned in connection with the first resurrection. Food for thought i know... anyway i'm not dogmatic about it. But so it seems...

 

[phipps]

Remember when Jesus exhaled and went down to the pit to set the captives free ?

As you can see in Rev 20:4-6 only those who lived and died during the end time beast system are mentioned in connection with the first resurrection. Food for thought i know... anyway i'm not dogmatic about it. But so it seems...

So when are the other righteous raised? Remember there are only two resurrections. One for all the righteous and one for the damned. There is no other resurrection in the Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The second death is eternal death.


John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All these scriptures prove that the first resurrection is for all the righteous dead including those mentioned in Revelation 20:4. Anyone who doesn't rise in the first resurrection is lost eternally.

 

[TokiEl]

So when are the other righteous raised? Remember there are only two resurrections. One for all the righteous and one for the damned. There is no other resurrection in the Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Was Abraham's bosom given a new name Paradise and raised up to God when Christ went down there and set the captives free ?

Probably but i suppose these are secrets for a reason.

Also i do not think the earth will be entirely empty of people. Sure it will be a bloody massacre but i don't think we will go extinct.

 

[phipps]

Was Abraham's bosom given a new name Paradise and raised up to God when Christ went down there and set the captives free ?

Probably but i suppose these are secrets for a reason.

Also i do not think the earth will be entirely empty of people. Sure it will be a bloody massacre but i don't think we will go extinct.

I don't know about Abraham's bosom given a new name and I don't know if he was raised up with the captives. What captives?

I edited my post and added more scripture. If its in the Bible its not a secret is it? Jesus has quite clearly told us through prophesy what will happen to us before and after He returns the second time so we can look forward in hope.

You said, "Also i do not think the earth will be entirely empty of people. Sure it will be a bloody massacre but i don't think we will go extinct." Then you are disagreeing with the Bible. It clearly says everything will die. That is why its called the bottomless pit.

Jeremiah 4:23-28
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.


Zephaniah 1:2-3
I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the Lord. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the Lord.

 

[TokiEl]

I don't know about Abraham's bosom given a new name and I don't know if he was raised up with the captives. What captives?

1 Peter 3 18"For Christ also sufferedd for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.

In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water. 21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him."

I edited my post and added more scripture. If its in the Bible its not a secret is it? Jesus has quite clearly told us through prophesy what will happen to us before and after He returns the second time so we can look forward in hope.

We do not know so much about the goings on in Heaven. Paul was translated there but would not say so much about it.

There are also dark forces trying to figure out what God is up to by studying the Scriptures so God in His wisdom has made much most ambiguous and some just about impossible to interpret and only to be understood in hindsight.

You said, "Also i do not think the earth will be entirely empty of people. Sure it will be a bloody massacre but i don't think we will go extinct." Then you are disagreeing with the Bible. It clearly says everything will die. That is why its called the bottomless pit.

The prophets are foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea. And they paint the desolation with a big brush but even in Jeremiah 4:27 God will not make a complete end...

 

[Daciple]

Can I ask, have any of you been Resurrected? Have you gone from death to life?

Col 3:3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

There will be no one in Heaven that hasnt had this Resurrection, maybe ones ideology of the Resurrections arent really what the Bible teaches?

I doubt most or any one on this forum would accept it because indoctrination is strong, but if you have come to Christ you have already partook in the First Resurrection. If we know there are only 2 Resurrections then why do none of your Posts contain this Resurrection?

So is there more than 2 Resurrections? If not then what about the Resurrection that took place when you were Born Again, and went from death unto life in Christ?

It may be time to reconsider what you were indoctrinated into because everyone who has been saved by Christ will attest to taking part in a Death and Resurrection....

 

[phipps]

1 Peter 3 18"For Christ also sufferedd for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.

In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water. 21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him."





We do not know so much about the goings on in Heaven. Paul was translated there but would not say so much about it.

There are also dark forces trying to figure out what God is up to by studying the Scriptures so God in His wisdom has made much most ambiguous and some just about impossible to interpret and only to be understood in hindsight.




The prophets are foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea. And they paint the desolation with a big brush but even in Jeremiah 4:27 God will not make a complete end...

This is what the KJV says. Lets start from verse 16. 1 Peter 3:16-22, Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Verse 18 reveals that Jesus the divine Son of God who was put to death for our sins was “made alive” through the power of the Holy Spirit. Verse 19 makes a transition and declares that it was by this same Holy Spirit that Christ spoke to the spirits in prison. When did He preach to these spirits in prison? Who are the spirits in prison? Verse 20 tells us! In the days of Noah, the hearts of men and women were only evil continually. They were in bondage to evil spirits.The same Holy Spirit which raised Jesus from literal death appeals to men and women possessed by evil spirits who were spiritually dead in the days of Noah to bring them spiritual life. The Spirit of Christ spoke through the prophet preaching the gospel to men and women trapped in spiritual prisons (1 Peter 1:10-12). The mighty power of the Spirit opens the prison of sin so the captives go free (Isaiah 61:1). 1 Peter 3:21 makes the illustration even clearer. The experience of the flood is likened to baptism. Just as the Holy Spirit led Noah’s family into the ark, preserving them from death and leading them to life, so the Holy Spirit works awakens spiritual life, convicting men and women of sin, providing power for a changed life and leading them through the waters of baptism. In Noah’s day, the Spirit led men and women from death to life. Today the Spirit delivers men and women from Spiritual prisons lead them from death to life- all because of the mighty power of the resurrected Christ. So it’s simply saying that part of the work of Christ was to try to save people, even during the time of Noah, through the same Spirit He tried to save those people whose spirits were imprisoned by the devil. He’s not talking about how their ghosts were in hell, chained up, or anything.

We only know what the Bible tells us. I wouldn't worry about what we don't know. We will find out when we get there. Also the Bible does not tell us that Paul was translated.

The dark forces (Satan) knows the scriptures better than you and I. But if its in the Bible its not meant to be ambiguous and hard to interpret. Everything in the Bible is meant to be understood right here on earth not in hindsight after Jesus comes back. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Jeremiah 4 uses symbols that are also used in other parts of the Bible in prophecy and it won't be the complete because there is still the second resurrection, third and final judgement and second death to come. Jeremiah is talking about the millennium in which everything will be desolate in this world.

 

[TokiEl]

Can I ask, have any of you been Resurrected? Have you gone from death to life?

The spiritual resurrection must come before the physical resurrection... as that which is within will overtake that which is without. So only spiritual resurrected people will also be physical resurrected and glorified when that time comes. When we look to Jesus Christ in earnestness our spirit will begin to quicken just by glancing in His direction. That is because God is so powerful.

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

What grace ? That Jesus Christ paid for our sins with His beating and His blood.

Could we accomplish that with work or obeying the law ? No of course not... how could we ?

So by grace are we saved or in other words by the blood of Jesus Christ are we saved.

Now we must accept and receive this free gift (which is heavy price) with both hands consisting of lawful conduct and righteous action.

 

[phipps]

Can I ask, have any of you been Resurrected? Have you gone from death to life?

Col 3:3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

There will be no one in Heaven that hasnt had this Resurrection, maybe ones ideology of the Resurrections arent really what the Bible teaches?

I doubt most or any one on this forum would accept it because indoctrination is strong, but if you have come to Christ you have already partook in the First Resurrection. If we know there are only 2 Resurrections then why do none of your Posts contain this Resurrection?

So is there more than 2 Resurrections? If not then what about the Resurrection that took place when you were Born Again, and went from death unto life in Christ?

It may be time to reconsider what you were indoctrinated into because everyone who has been saved by Christ will attest to taking part in a Death and Resurrection....

Is this meant for me? There are two resurrections and I've shown scripture that proves it. I will repost them.

Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. The resurrection of life is the first resurrection for all the righteous and the resurrection of damnation is the second resurrection for the condemned. They will happen at different times. The first resurrection will happen as soon as Jesus comes back 1 Thessalonians 4:16, and the second resurrection will take place after the thousand years.

Those who are alive by the time Jesus returns will never taste death and will have no need for resurrection just like Enoch and Elijah (Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11).1 Thessalonians 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[TokiEl]

This is what the KJV says. Lets start from verse 16. 1 Peter 3:16-22, Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Verse 18 reveals that Jesus the divine Son of God who was put to death for our sins was “made alive” through the power of the Holy Spirit. Verse 19 makes a transition and declares that it was by this same Holy Spirit that Christ spoke to the spirits in prison. When did He preach to these spirits in prison? Who are the spirits in prison? Verse 20 tells us! In the days of Noah, the hearts of men and women were only evil continually. They were in bondage to evil spirits.The same Holy Spirit which raised Jesus from literal death appeals to men and women possessed by evil spirits who were spiritually dead in the days of Noah to bring them spiritual life. The Spirit of Christ spoke through the prophet preaching the gospel to men and women trapped in spiritual prisons (1 Peter 1:10-12). The mighty power of the Spirit opens the prison of sin so the captives go free (Isaiah 61:1). 1 Peter 3:21 makes the illustration even clearer. The experience of the flood is likened to baptism. Just as the Holy Spirit led Noah’s family into the ark, preserving them from death and leading them to life, so the Holy Spirit works awakens spiritual life, convicting men and women of sin, providing power for a changed life and leading them through the waters of baptism. In Noah’s day, the Spirit led men and women from death to life. Today the Spirit delivers men and women from Spiritual prisons lead them from death to life- all because of the mighty power of the resurrected Christ. So it’s simply saying that part of the work of Christ was to try to save people, even during the time of Noah, through the same Spirit He tried to save those people whose spirits were imprisoned by the devil. He’s not talking about how their ghosts were in hell, chained up, or anything.

But Jesus relived the terrible cruelty of a world of crimes before being humiliated and beaten to a pulp and finally finding some respite on the cursed cross before His soul went to Hell.

Acts 2.

We only know what the Bible tells us. I wouldn't worry about what we don't know. We will find out when we get there. Also the Bible does not tell us that Paul was translated.

What Paul was not translated into Heaven that lying son of a lol ?

The dark forces (Satan) knows the scriptures better than you and I. But if its in the Bible its not meant to be ambiguous and hard to interpret. Everything in the Bible is meant to be understood right here on earth not in hindsight. The Bible is for us here on earth not for later after Jesus comes back. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Sure but there are books and prophecies that are ambiguous for a good reason like team evil trying to figure out what's going on when... even angels don't know it all.

 

[phipps]

But Jesus relived the terrible cruelty of a world of crimes before being humiliated and beaten to a pulp and finally finding some respite on the cursed cross before His soul went to Hell.

Acts 2.





What Paul was not translated into Heaven that lying son of a lol ?





Sure but there are books and prophecies that are ambiguous for a good reason like team evil trying to figure out what's going on when... even angels don't know it all.

Can you elaborate more on what you mean about Acts 2?


You said in you previous post, "Paul was translated there but would not say so much about it." I thought you meant translated to heaven. Well, yes Paul was translated but he is not that hard to understand. The whole Bible is understandable if we pray and search the scriptures.

The books and prophecies should not be ambiguous to Christians who search the Bible prayerfully. End time prophecy for example with all its symbols needs work. I suggest you get a good concordance too. Nothing is meant to be secret in the Bible.