Prophetic Expectations

DesertRose

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There are end times hadith about Israel rising:

The Prophet (saw) said, "The Flourishing state of Al-Quds (Jerusalem) (under the non-Muslims) will be taken when Yathrib(Madina) is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib (Madina) will be when the Great War comes, the outbreak of the Great War will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when Al-Dajjal (Anti-Christ) comes forth". He (the Prophet) struck his thigh with his hand and said, "This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Muadh Ibn Jabal). (Abu Dawud)

Basically the Great War may be upon us.Only the Creator knows however.
The last part has me wondering if this refers to Turkey no longer being in Nato at the conclusion of the war.
re-post:
 
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TokiEl

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In the last days Islam will play second fiddle to "the beast that was wounded by the sword but survived"... so Islam is an important part of the New World Order.

Everybody will be microchipped ("the mark of the beast") and connected to a global AI ("the image of the beast")... or be beheaded by Islam.

This is old news in the prophetic Book of Revelation.
 

rainerann

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In the last days Islam will play second fiddle to "the beast that was wounded by the sword but survived"... so Islam is an important part of the New World Order.

Everybody will be microchipped ("the mark of the beast") and connected to a global AI ("the image of the beast")... or be beheaded by Islam.

This is old news in the prophetic Book of Revelation.
Do you really think that? I just don't see the Islamic world as ever advancing to the point where they could perform "great signs and wonders"(Revelation 13). I mean most of their weapons are even donated to them.

I have considering CERN and this Mandela effect thing in connection with the verse about changing the times.

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." (Daniel 7:25).
 

Vytas

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I have considering CERN and this Mandela effect thing in connection with the verse about changing the times.

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." (Daniel 7:25).
Yup you onto something here.
 

TokiEl

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Do you really think that? I just don't see the Islamic world as ever advancing to the point where they could perform "great signs and wonders"(Revelation 13). I mean most of their weapons are even donated to them.
Yes you're right but remember Islam is in alliance with "the beast who was mortally wounded but survived"... this beast is for now an underground high tech beast with powerful weapons. So much so that the world asks "Who can make war with the beast" ?
 

rainerann

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Yes you're right but remember Islam is in alliance with "the beast who was mortally wounded but survived"... this beast is for now an underground high tech beast with powerful weapons. So much so that the world asks "Who can make war with the beast" ?
Yah, I don't really ask this question though. I have a book published by the UN. Maybe I will get it out later, but it has a breakdown of how much money has been given to terrorists by different countries. People might actually be surprised to find out that while the US gave the most, if I remember correctly, there are a lot of countries funding terrorism at the moment. Probably has something to do with the whole New World Order thing.

So while I recognize what you are saying about Muhammad being a false prophet, this came about because of the early struggle to create orthodoxy. This was a way of attacking orthodoxy with an opposing Christology that included a way to promote this ideology with force. Therefore, people who were recruited into this belief could cope with alternative beliefs by having permission to remove them by force. However, history shows that that this was only successful for a short time and force has been somewhat dormant and isolated to the point that Islam is really more of a religion of censorship and oppression and some people are trying to revive its potential to apply force when it faces opposition.

However, they are not independently able to apply force for many reasons. In general, when we look at the fulfillment of prophecy, we can't expect the end to demonstrate the revival of anything that the world has overcome in some way. The Catholic church is another one. When people feel like they have information available to them about something from a historical point of view, they are less likely to consider something worth reviving. There will always be a few who do, but the majority will never go back to the practices of the Catholic church and don't feel obligated to do this because there is no sense of fearing an institution that has been overcome in the way the Catholic church and Islam has.

People will fear what is new because they are less likely to be able to predict the way it will turn out. They will follow the crowd because they are more likely to be undecided about something.

Although, in the case of Islam, there are too many things that represent restrictions that the modern world would never accept as a whole and there are not enough people who would be able to apply force to change that. Technically, the Christian church outnumbers Islam by at least a billion people. The world population outnumbers this by a lot more. You are suggesting that some percentage of one billion people (which is the estimated population size for the religion of Islam) is capable of applying force to fulfill the prophecy in the way that it is described.

Islam has trouble overcoming the hurdle of converting people with or without force in the modern world. Music is debated and many people believe it is prohibited. Is it really possible to believe that in the age of iTunes that Islam is really going to keep growing once people really start understanding how accepting Islam would change their life in so many ways like this? Personally, I don't even think it exists in any significant way when the prophecy is fulfilled.

So it would be an example of a false prophet, but there have been many, and there will be a final one that will have to have a much more complex message for a modern world than Islam is able to provide.
 

Kung Fu

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Do you really think that? I just don't see the Islamic world as ever advancing to the point where they could perform "great signs and wonders"(Revelation 13). I mean most of their weapons are even donated to them.
That's what the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire said about the Arabs prior to Muhammad(pbuh) showing up on the scene. 2-3 decades later a group of backward idiots totally decimated them and became the sole superpower for nearly 600 years while after that remained a regional superpower until the fall of Ottoman Empire. The Most High does great things regardless of how bad it looks. The Arabs, before becoming Muslims, were worse off then than they are now and managed to defeat two of the worlds biggest superpowers so nothing is out of the question. You really should read a book or two you know to perhaps stay informed ;)
 

TokiEl

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Well i think our way of life will be suddenly and violently overthrown probably with help of war and powerful bombs.

And so the New World Order will rise up from the ashes of the old one... with new technology like AI and internet of things and humans.

Manpower is needed to enforce this new way of life and Islam with a billion muslims will fit the foretold bill in the Book of Revelation.

What kind of Islam will it be ? Probably a technocratic one modified and not so medieval in cooperation with the hi tech first beast.
 

Kung Fu

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Technically, the Christian church outnumbers Islam by at least a billion people. The world population outnumbers this by a lot more. You are suggesting that some percentage of one billion people (which is the estimated population size for the religion of Islam) is capable of applying force to fulfill the prophecy in the way that it is described.
Again, incorrect. The population of Islam is at 1.8 billion while the Christian population of the world is at 2.2 billion. And if we take into account that of the 2.2 billion Christians the majority are Catholics, which Evangelical and Protestant Christians don't even consider to be Christian, it makes your case even more outlandish. Rainerann, this is simple math. Come one keep up cupcake. Also, just to add some icing, Islam by 2070 is estimated to be the single largest religion by far :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/islam-will-largest-religion-world-2070-says-report/
 

rainerann

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lol, in 53 years it will be the worlds largest religion as though this were some sort of scientific calculation that was being studied in a lab.


It defies reason to assume that Islam will grow by at least a billion people in 100 years, which is what would be required to become the largest religion by a hair. Islam is nothing more than a fad to the west that is going to fade once people understand how restrictive it is in comparison to the freedoms they are used to having, like the freedom to even entertain it to begin with. Once they understand that Islam removes the freedom to entertain anything else, the numbers will start to decline.

This is only from one angle too. There are many reasons to not expect Islam to continue growing over the next century. It is just not even a practical expectation.
 

Kung Fu

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lol, in 53 years it will be the worlds largest religion as though this were some sort of scientific calculation that was being studied in a lab.


It defies reason to assume that Islam will grow by at least a billion people in 100 years, which is what would be required to become the largest religion by a hair. Islam is nothing more than a fad to the west that is going to fade once people understand how restrictive it is in comparison to the freedoms they are used to having, like the freedom to even entertain it to begin with. Once they understand that Islam removes the freedom to entertain anything else, the numbers will start to decline.

This is only from one angle too. There are many reasons to not expect Islam to continue growing over the next century. It is just not even a practical expectation.
It's calculated statistics done by mathematicians. Unlike you I actually support my claims.

Thanks for recognizing that it's growing. When people supposedly find out the truth and then start turning away from it please do inform us lol. Until then you are wrong and need to stop spewing bullshit that is absolutely false and against the reality of what we see happening today.
 

DesertRose

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Please note he discusses prophecies.
Timothy John Winter (born in 1960), also known as Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad, is a British Sunni Muslim scholar, researcher, writer and academic. He is the Dean of the Cambridge Muslim College,[4] Director of Studies (Theology and Religious Studies) at Wolfson College[5] and the Shaykh Zayed Lecturer in Islamic Studies at Cambridge University.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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28 pages ago, this was the OP

"Many religions have within them prophecies of future events. Unless you knew about them you would not realise if they were fulfilled.

I'm opening this thread up for those who are interested in outlining their interpretation of the texts they hold to be true and give the rest of us the heads up on what we ought to be looking out for.

If the Qur'an (and I don't think it does) described the Mahdi making a key alliance between Russia, Korea and Yemen, and that were to happen, how would the rest of us know that the Qur'an had prophecied that, or which Surah it was from?

Let's not argue within our faiths either - this is about a wide angle focus so let's wait and see on this question. E.g. some Christians might be expecting the Rapture one day. Others reject the idea. Let's try instead to describe what both possibilities look like then sit back and wait, rather than argue over who has the right interpretation.

Let's not get too stuck on one particularprophecy 'coming off' either (in an 'I told you don't sense) - even Mother Shipman and Nostradamus have had that happen with some of theirs. The test for divine inspiration will be that in the end ALL will come to pass. Instead, let's take the chance to respectfully inform one another of potential prophetic horizons.

We live in interesting times!"
 

rainerann

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@Red Sky at Morning

With all due respect to your desire to keep peace, there was nothing wrong with this thread except someone included an interpretation of prophecy that viewed Islam in a negative light. That is their prophetic expectation. This was something that I have participated in challenging with my own prophetic expectation, but this in no way removes the spirit of discussion that was originally presented by doing this unless our prophectic expectation cannot include the role we expect Islam to play.

Are you are suggesting that we can only use the figurative symbols of prophecy without assigning any identity to them. In reality, I was enjoying the discussion I was having with the new member. While he may have a controversial prophetic view, he is very polite in his delivery.
 

Kung Fu

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@Red Sky at Morning

With all due respect to your desire to keep peace, there was nothing wrong with this thread except someone included an interpretation of prophecy that viewed Islam in a negative light. That is their prophetic expectation. .
One that didn't make sense because a prophet is a person and not a religion. If I may recommend a book. It's called "Logic for Dummies". Perhaps you can give it a read and report back lol. Vytas understood that but I don't think you nor your "friend" did.
 
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