Prophetic Expectations

[grateful servant]

There are more but these suffice for now.

 

[llleopard]

The same! There is soooo much there if you dig in, and possibly even some prophetic patterns ;-)

Hmm. haven't really thought about this for a while...going away in our bus tonight - avoiding local flooding eeek, so will have a little PARDES think ho ho ho

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Hmm. haven't really thought about this for a while...going away in our bus tonight - avoiding local flooding eeek, so will have a little PARDES think ho ho ho

That his story concludes the book of Genesis, with so many connections says much of the 'god-breathed' nature of scripture...

A Comparison between Joseph and Jesus

Many Old Testament accounts of people and events tell of the immediate with a foreshadowing of that which is yet to come. For example, Moses told the Israelites of another Prophet, like him, who would come later and who would require the people’s total allegiance and obedience; the Psalms describe the experiences of David; yet they also speak of David’s Greater Son, the Messiah.

Perhaps one of the best known and loved Bible accounts, along with that of Noah’s ark and David and Goliath, is the story of Joseph and his coat of many colors. Joseph’s life story affords many valuable lessons and applications; yet there is also a prophetic aspect to the account that foreshadows the Messiah himself. There are many fascinating parallels (more than 100) between Joseph, beloved son of Jacob, and Jesus, the Son of God who would arrive on the stage of human history centuries later...

https://jewsforjesus.org/newsletter-jul-1985/a-comparison-between-joseph-and-jesus-newsletter-jul-1985/

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I read this one a few years ago and it seems very appropriate to the time we find ourselves in...

“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition.”

Sir Issac Newton 1642-1727

One of the things that seems to have been restored to the Church is an understanding of the significance of the feasts in the OT and how they pattern not only Jesus's life, death and resurrection, but also the establishment of the Church at Pentecost and finally the fall feasts patterning the events around return of Jesus as alluded to in Isaiah 42...

This is another topic where the PRDS way of thinking unlocks greater meaning...

 

[llleopard]

I read this one a few years ago and it seems very appropriate to the time we find ourselves in...

“About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition.”

Sir Issac Newton 1642-1727

One of the things that seems to have been restored to the Church is an understanding of the significance of the feasts in the OT and how they pattern not only Jesus's life, death and resurrection, but also the establishment of the Church at Pentecost and finally the fall feasts patterning the events around return of Jesus as alluded to in Isaiah 42...

This is another topic where the PRDS way of thinking unlocks greater meaning...

I love the feasts as a type of the Christian life as well. So many layers of meaning... Love how you can spend your whole life having more and more revealed and never reach the end!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I love the feasts as a type of the Christian life as well. So many layers of meaning... Love how you can spend your whole life having more and more revealed and never reach the end!

I have heard it described as the 'fractal nature of Scripture'... The more I comprehend, the greater the unexplored landscape becomes!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I follow a weekly update that pulls out news headlines that may be of prophetic importance. No words, just music and the events...

Prophecy Update 21/7/17

 

[Serveto]

While I have stated previously that I dont cling to Prophecy as I once did because I can see the Truth in most all Eschatology and holes in most all Eschatology, what I can say is that I believe that Prophecy is Cyclical. In other words I believe that a Prophecy can be fulfilled multiple times in a greater and greater degree foreshadowing the complete fulfillment in the final fulfillment in the future. The easiest to see this in is Christ Himself. We have Prophecies concerning Him that state back to the Garden that were partially fulfilled in Abraham and Issac at the Altar, in Moses and the Law, in David and Solomon and finally culminating in Christs Atonement on the Cross.

Another example is the Abomination of Desolation, we have multiple different events and multiple different Eschatologies that state when and how this was or will be fulfilled. Since I dont throw my Eschatology into one box and make everything fit it, rejecting any other possible explanation, I see the Abomination of Desolation as being Cyclical for sure. Of course this comes from Daniel:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now I believe this has been fulfilled already close to Daniels time by Seleucid king Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who ruled Palestine from 175-64 B.C. Antiochus treated Israel with such violence and contempt that they rebelled against him. When he came to suppress the rebellion, his forces entered the temple, stopped the regular sacrifices, set up an idol of or altar for Zeus, and apparently offered swine there as a sacrifice. This is an abomination because it is idolatry, and it brings desolation because it defiles the holy place at the heart of Israel. This act was the abomination “of” desolation, the abomination “causing” desolation.

Of course it couldnt have been completely fulfilled because Jesus says:

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Which some have said this was fulfilled by the conquest of the Roman Armies in 70 AD as you have pointed out in your post, which I again believe it was, however in my view I believe that it is the combination of the two which were both foreshadowing of the upcoming and total fulfillment at the time of Tribulation when the Antichrist will be seated in the Temple and proclaim himself God and then begin the attack upon Christians ushering in the true Tribulation of the Saints. So I believe that this Prophecy is Cyclical, and I also actually believe what you stated in that post as well, that it is Israel that is the Whore of Babylon. All throughout the Old Testament Israel is called a Whore by God, and she is once again Whoring herself out to the false gods of the Nations seeing as those who created this False Israel are Satan Worshipers and are looking to build the Temple specifically to usher in their Messiah, the False Messiah or the Antichrist.

Israel will once again host a false prophet and false god, and will be the center of all commerce in the world and will be Whoring herself out to the nations even more so than she is at the moment...

I do not truly ascribe to Rome being the Whore of Babylon, in fact I actually believe that it is just a resting place at the moment until Jerusalem is reestablished and the Temple recreated which is a major effort trying to be achieved via the Vatican. It is the seat of the Ancient Mystery Religions and in my view that is exactly what Israels Elites were practicing in the Temple back in the first and second Temple period, and when God destroyed them for Whoring themselves out, they moved that seat of power into the Vatican where it will remain until they create the Temple again and the power will go back to where it once was, Jerusalem. Ezekiel shows us exactly what the Pharisees were worshiping in the Temple and it wasnt YHWH:

Ez 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Weeping for Tammuz is the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis, and their son, Tammuz, which is the foundation of all the Ancient Mystery Religions, known in other cultures as Baal, and Ishtar or Osiris and Isis ect ect ect. This is the Religion in which Israel has been Whoring themselves after for generations and have and will continue to do so until they usher in their False Messiah and False Prophet in the times to come. So I do believe that Israel has been and ultimately will be the Whore who sits on many waters that has seduced the world and in whom all the blood has flowed from...

Bumping this one up, if I may. I would like to listen to responses.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Bumping this one up, if I may. I would like to listen to responses.

On this topic I think the true identity of Mystery Babylon will one day be very clear... In the meantime I go more with C.S Lewis's observation...

[John]: 'But I must think it is one or the other.'
[Reason]: 'By my father's soul, you must not - until you have some evidence. Can you not remain in doubt?'
[John]: 'I don't know that I have ever tried.'
[Reason]: 'You must learn to, if you are to come far with me. It is not hard to do it. In Eschropolis, indeed, it is impossible, for the people who live there have to give an opinion once a week or once a day, or else Mr. Mammon would soon cut off their food. But out here in the country you can walk all day and all the next day with an unanswered question in your head: you need never speak until you have made up your mind.
​

C.S. Lewis, The Pilgrim's Regress

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Daciple
There is no need to talk about foreshadowing and imagining that these previous prophecies will be fulfilled again.
For example look at Daniel 7
The 10 horns..and then the little horn coming from amongst them.
when suddenly another, a little horn, sprang out of their midst, and three of the previous horns were torn away to make room for it.
Most def, this was Titus...the year of 4 emperors etc.
the 10 horns are here beginning with Augustus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors#The_Principate
I didn't entirely get it until I watched the HBO Rome series and finally understood the transition of Rome from the Republic to the empire and the rise of Augustus/octavian.

side note:
Rev 17
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.

I actually believe this was referring to the roman republic ie the system..which at that point no longer existed. but in the future would come again(of course this is true, most the governments in the world today are republic).

Daniel 7 goes from telling us about Titus to literally

As I watched,
Thrones were set up
and the Ancient of Days took his throne.
His clothing was white as snow,
the hair on his head like pure wool;
His throne was flames of fire,
with wheels of burning fire.
10 A river of fire surged forth,
flowing from where he sat;
Thousands upon thousands were ministering to him,
and myriads upon myriads stood before him.


I don't believe it's about foreshadowing/second fulfillments..I believe it's basically a case of the prophecies having a huge missing component.
Daniel 9 tells us
The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed

Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 Jesus was definately talking about the second jewish temple being destroyed. The disciples asked him when 'this' would happen and he went on to describe the events...
and the gist of it was that the temple would be destroyed and the greatest ever war would take place..and then Jesus would appear.
This is keeping well in line with Daniel 7 too

further weight to this expectation is added when Jesus says
8 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.
20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them

30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

But look closer Jesus also said
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Basically the second coming didn't happen.........and then the book of Revelation was revealed because neither Jesus nor Daniel knew what was supposed to happen.
The bit about 'this generation will certainly not pass away'
is also a clear indicator it refers back to the 70AD events.
ie it was the same generation that saw these events take place in their lifetime..but Jesus didn't come.

Revelation was revealed instead..and revelation gives us some insight here because we know there are 'witnesses' to all that's going to take place in the world ie the martyrs of Christ for example, they are 'alive' not dead. We know the 'elect' will be resurrected when Jesus returns. This is also mentioned in Wisdom chapter 3 and Daniel 12.

Daniel 12
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wisea]">[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

what's happening here is this 'time of distress' actually lasts a long time ie over 2000 years
like it says in Daniel 9 'desolations are decreed'
Jesus also said in Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This is something that is still on going.


So why did Jesus say
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Basically I believe that generation are in a suspended state in Barzakh ie they are alive and witnessing all of this take place. That's why in Dan 12 it talks about this event whilst also referring to the resurrection.
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake:

sleep in the dust..not dead. I guess the entire jewish nation of that time ie that 'generation' is alive in barzakh/hades.

 

[Serveto]

On this topic I think the true identity of Mystery Babylon will one day be very clear... In the meantime I go more with C.S Lewis's observation...

[John]: 'But I must think it is one or the other.'
[Reason]: 'By my father's soul, you must not - until you have some evidence. Can you not remain in doubt?'
[John]: 'I don't know that I have ever tried.'
[Reason]: 'You must learn to, if you are to come far with me. It is not hard to do it. In Eschropolis, indeed, it is impossible, for the people who live there have to give an opinion once a week or once a day, or else Mr. Mammon would soon cut off their food. But out here in the country you can walk all day and all the next day with an unanswered question in your head: you need never speak until you have made up your mind.
​

C.S. Lewis, The Pilgrim's Regress

On the other hand, and in answer to (the above-referenced character) Reason, with whom I have long remained in doubt, awaiting sufficient evidence, this is a verse, or excerpt from a verse, that my smart, lovable, admirable Christian father, especially in my youth, would sometimes quote to my indecisive self, as if Prophet Elijah's words were and are his own:

"How long halt ye between two [and more] opinions?"
(1 Kings 18:21)
​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On the other hand, and in answer to (the above-referenced character) Reason, with whom I have long remained in doubt, awaiting sufficient evidence, this is a verse, or excerpt from a verse, that my smart, lovable, admirable Christian father, especially in my youth, would sometimes quote to my indecisive self, as if Prophet Elijah's words were and are his own:

"How long halt ye between two [and more] opinions?"
(1 Kings 18:21)
​

If I were to say that I had pondered on this question for several years but never gave voice to my feelings, would that help?

I know there are a spectrum of views and I like many of the people who hold views deferent to my own. Now that you press me, I will consider a response and offer it within the next day or so....

 

[Serveto]

If I were to say that I had pondered on this question for several years but never gave voice to my feelings, would that help?

I know there are a spectrum of views and I like many of the people who hold views deferent to my own. Now that you press me, I will consider a response and offer it within the next day or so....

I am not pressing you at all. That was a statement only about me, and of my characteristic wavering. "Hold your peace" as long as you are able; you are not obligated to respond, especially prematurely. When I requested responses, it can be from any and all participants. I think @Daciple's contribution is a possible treasure-trove of relevant things to discuss, of issues to explore, and that it deserves more attention. That's all. With that said, thank you!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I am not pressing you at all. That was a statement only about me, and of my characteristic wavering. "Hold your peace" as long as you are able; you are not obligated to respond, especially prematurely. When I requested responses, it can be from any and all participants. I think @Daciple's contribution is a possible treasure-trove of relevant things to discuss, of issues to explore, and that it deserves more attention. That's all. With that said, thank you!

I replied because it is a topic I have under consideration.... The reason why I am reluctant to nail my colours to the mast is that, rather like in a detective story, the early identification of the wrong suspect can throw dust in your eyes when the real one emerges.

 

[Karlysymon]

Bumping this one up, if I may. I would like to listen to responses.

I think @Daciple's contribution is a possible treasure-trove of relevant things to discuss, of issues to explore, and that it deserves more attention. That's all. With that said, thank you!

This sent me digging and i hope the response helps (i liked it though). Its long so i will post it in parts.

*********
Author's note: During this time of ambiguity we need to avoid the
temptation to believe that we have everything perfectly clear. A certain amount of humility is
needed. But this can be difficult for many.

The Euphrates River

Rev 16:12~ The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up in order that the way of the kings from the rising of the sun might be prepared."

.... the “bowl” in this text is probably a sanctuary image drawn from the Old Testament. But while this image is drawn from the sanctuary, in Revelation the bowls cause major destruction to the earth and its people: sores, water turning to blood ,
rivers and springs turning to blood, and the sun scorching people with intense heat. By comparison with the previous plagues, the sixth plague seems like nothing. It is merely the drying up of one of the world’s thousands of rivers. Not only so, the Euphrates River historically has been something of a seasonal river that dries up from time to time. But first impressions in Revelation are often far from the mark. There is much more below the surface of this text. One of the distinguishing marks of the Euphrates River in
ancient times was that it passed right through the center of Babylon, an ancient city that was the capital of an ancient empire. Babylon was
something like Kansas City. There are two cities in two different states, divided only by the Missouri River. Although divided by the river and political barriers, Kansas City is one unified city for all practical purposes. So the mention of the Euphrates River in this text probably sets the table for the many mentions of Babylon in the passages to follow (Rev 16:19; 17:5; 18:2, 10, 21). And whatever the Euphrates River means in this verse, its drying up prepares the way for the kings who come from the rising of the sun, whoever they are. There are three crucial questions that come to mind as one strives to unpack the deeper meaning of Rev 16:12.
1) What does the Euphrates River mean in this text? Is it literally the Euphrates River in
ancient Mesopotamia? Or is it a symbol of something else?
2)What is the drying up all about? Is that literal or symbolic?
3)Who are the kings from the rising of the sun? Are they specific world powers or something else?

We will be able to answer
these three questions by
applying the three extended strategies noted above.
John explains the meaning of the Euphrates River in chapter 17, so the examining the larger
context will be the key to
understanding that image. The secret of its drying up emerges, however, only from a careful examination of the Old Testament tradition of
Babylon’s fall in Jeremiah 50-51 and Isaiah 44-47.
Understanding John’s allusions to the Old Testament are often
critical to correct interpretation. (3) The kings from the rising of the sun comes to clarity when one examines “rising sun” elsewhere in the New Testament. Revelation is a New Testament book and many
aspects of the book can only be understood with reference to the other 26 books of the NT...

 

[Karlysymon]

.....So let’s take a look at how the larger structure of the book of Revelation clearly explains the significance of the Euphrates River in the text at hand. One of the seven-bowl angels of Revelation 16 returns to explain something to John.
"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.” Rev 17:1 Clearly, this vision and what follows is intended to explain one of the seven bowl-plagues of chapter sixteen. But which one? Notice that the angel invites John to observe the punishment of “the great prostitute” who sits on many waters. So the bowl-plague being explained must have something to do with water. A
quick survey of the seven last plagues in Revelation 16 reveals that three of the plagues have something to do with water. The second plague falls on the sea, the third plague falls on the rivers and springs of the earth, and the sixth plague falls on the Euphrates River. The crucial question is, which of those three plagues is in view here? Chapter 17 will be an elaboration of that plague. It helps to notice that the concept of “many waters” didn’t come out of thin air. It is found in Jer 51:12-13 (NIV):
“Lift up a banner against the walls of Babylon! Reinforce the guard, station the watchmen, prepare an ambush! The LORD will carry out his purpose, his
decree against the people of Babylon. You who live by many waters and are rich in treasures, your end has come,the time for you to be cut off.”
What are the many waters that Babylon lives near? The water of the Euphrates River! This is confirmed when we discover the identity of the great
prostitute in Rev 17:4-5 (ESV): 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, . . . 5 And on her
forehead was written a name of mystery:
“Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” The great prostitute is none other than Babylon the Great, the twin city on both banks of the Euphrates River! The two
halves of Babylon were each about a square mile, looking something like the following:

If the great prostitute is
Babylon then the “many waters” of verse 1 must be the Euphrates River. So it should be fairly obvious by now that the angel who comes to John at the beginning of Revelation
seventeen is the sixth angel who had poured his bowl on the great river Euphrates. This same angel has returned to elaborate on the sixth plague...

 

[Karlysymon]

...In many parts of the Middle
East, rainfall in minimal or non-
existent. A place that has an
abundance of water is truly
worthy of notice. One such
place is Egypt, where the Nile River’s massive flow is fed by
the snow-capped mountains of
northeast central Africa. The
other such place is
Mesopotamia (which means
“between the rivers”), where the Tigris and the Euphrates
Rivers flow from the snow-
capped mountains of Turkey
and Iran. Dry places can have
lots of fresh water if the rivers
that pass through them are fed from places where the rain and
snow are abundant. But this still leaves open the
question, What does the
Euphrates River mean in this
text? Is it literally the
Euphrates River in ancient
Mesopotamia? Or is it a symbol of something else? Interpreters
have offered a number of
different answers to these
questions. Some have
suggested that the Euphrates
River represents. . . the Euphrates River! Duh! While
this is certainly a possibility in
any biblical text, I don’t think
that is the correct
interpretation here, as we will
see. Other interpreters have
suggested that the Euphrates
River represents the land or the
territory through which the
river flows. One problem with
that view is that the territory through which the Euphrates
River flows seems to have
changed hands an awful lot in
the course of history. In the
nineteenth century the entire
length of the Euphrates River flowed through Turkey. Today
most of the Euphrates River
flows through territory called
Iraq. For a time, some
interpreters thought the
Euphrates River represented Saddam Hussein, but that
interpretation looks a bit dated
now. Still others have branched
out even further and suggested
that the Euphrates River
represents Middle Eastern oil. The drying up of the river
would then represent a
shortage of oil supplies. All of these interpretations
have been convincing to some
people at one time or another.
But let me ask you a question.
If John himself provides the
meaning of the Euphrates River in his outline of the vision, does
it make sense to pursue any
other interpretation than the
one that John himself gives us?
I think the answer to that
question is obvious. So let’s see what Revelation itself tells us
about the Euphrates River. The capstone of the angel’s
instruction to John is found in
verse 15 (ESV): “And the angel
said to me, ‘The waters that
you saw, where the prostitute
is seated, . . .” Where have we heard this language before?
This is a reference back to verse
one! There the angel told John
he would be shown a great
prostitute who sits on many
waters. So now in verse 15 the angel is about to explain the
meaning of the Euphrates
River! The waters which John
saw in verse one “are peoples
and multitudes and nations
and languages.” It is now clear that the
Euphrates River does not
represent itself. Neither does it
represent a single nation or the
leader of a nation, like Saddam
Hussein. It also does not represent a substance like
Middle Eastern oil. In the book
of Revelation the Euphrates
River is representative of the
civil and secular powers of the
entire world. All nations, all races, all ethnic groups, all
language groups are
represented. Euphrates River is
a symbol of the political and
military powers of the world
that will give their support to end-time Babylon.

 

[Karlysymon]

...Babylon, by contrast, is
something other than the
political powers of this world.
Prostitute Babylon is described
in dress similar to that worn by
the High Priest of Old Testament Israel (Rev 17:4-5;
cf. Exod 28 and 39). She also
suffers the fate of a priest’s
daughter for her prostitution
(Rev 17:16; cf. Lev 21:9). So
Prostitute Babylon clearly represents a religious power at
the End that is hostile to the
Lamb and to those who are
with him (17:14). Are you beginning to see that
the sixth plague must be more
significant than it appeared at
first glance? After all, if we are
dealing with the drying up of a
river that is often dry in the late summer, the plague
doesn’t amount to much. But if
the Euphrates River symbolizes
the civil, secular and political
powers of this world, the
drying up of that Euphrates becomes a very major event in
earth’s history. The procedure
we have just followed shows
that the book of Revelation
often interprets its own
symbols, if are patient enough to search it with care. When modern nations are
working loosely together for a
common cause we often call it
an alliance (like N.A.T.O., for
example). When a particular
nation is powerful enough and determined enough to
dominate others by force we
call it an empire. At the end of
time, the Euphrates River
represents the power of many
nations supporting the end- time empire of Babylon. What
would the drying up of the
Euphrates River mean then?
Probably the nations’
withdrawal of support for end-
time Babylon. When end-time Babylon loses its support
system of nations it will fall.
How Babylon falls at the end of
time is clarified when we
examine the Old Testament
background the drying up of the Euphrates River.

******
If this arrests the attention/generates discourse, then i'll post the follow-up

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have been trying to delve into the breadth of views on the topic so that all the possible suspects are in the room, very like in a game of Cluedo!

Several of them may have certain attributes that could be drawn out to make a possible case, but as anyone who has played the game knows, it is easy to jump the gun! Each view has those who strongly believe it building a case, but without all the pieces of evidence in place it is wise to bear the range of suspects in mind....



The Suspects in no particular order...

Apostate Ecumenical 'Religion'
http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/world_church.htm

America/New York
https://escapeallthesethings.com/america-mystery-babylon-great/

Islam
http://shoebat.com/2013/05/31/mystery-babylon-is-mecca-not-vatican/

Israel/Jerusalem
https://bible.org/seriespage/chapter-4-evidence-jerusalem-harlot

http://rightwordtruth.com/is-jerusalem-mystery-babylon/

Saudi Arabia
http://mobile.wnd.com/2017/05/just-what-is-mystery-babylon/

http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/69557/20170207/christian-author-identifies-present-day-location-of-biblical-mystery-babylon.htm

Roman Catholicism
(or what it finally becomes)
https://www.endtime.com/mystery-babylon-who-is-it/

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/mystery-babylon-part-i

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/mystery-babylon-part-ii

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_end-time_Babylon_woman_Revelation

We also have literal Babylon (perhaps rebuilt at a future point) Babel, literal Rome, the Illuminati and others lurking in the shadows of the room...

The conclusions you come to will depend on what assumptions are already on your suspect pad... E.g If you are a Christian Preterist, a Muslim or you believe in replacement theology, your shortlist of likely suspects may look very different to the one arrived at by a Christian prophetic futurist.

 

[Karlysymon]

Something I've wondered about Revelation is this: given that it is a series of letters, or messages, addressed "unto the angel," perhaps angels, plural, of the seven churches, is it written and composed in what St. Paul calls the 'tongue" or language, "of angels?" Is that why it is so recondite and difficult to understand by those of us who only speak the tongue of men (humans)? The question is open to anybody.

I've never thought of that before (tongues of angels) and if that is the case, i and a couple of others (God forbid, should i be amongst those on the road to perdition) will have a perfect excuse for having ignored the warnings contained therein. We'll simply exclaim "foreign language !" on Judgement Day. But i believe God hasn't left room for that...

Daniel 12:9
He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words
are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

Revelation 1:1-3
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending
his angel to his servant
John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed
are those who hear it and
take to heart what is written in it, because the
time is near.