Prophetic Expectations

Karlysymon

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Red Sky at Morning said:
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the
moon into blood, before the great and the terrible
day of the LORD come. There is much that could be said about the significance of verse 31, but we can come back to that...
Continuing to run with cosmic phenomena theme.
This particular description (lights going out) is recurrent, so many times: The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light...
[Isaiah 13:10, 24:23, 34:4, Jeremiah 4:23, Amos 5:18,20, Zephaniah 1:15, Matthew 24:29, 2 Peter 3:10,12, Revelation 6:12-14]

When that does happen, it won't just affect earth but the entire solar system. When the sun goes dark, so will Jupiter's 67 moons, so will every other planet. Iam just really intrigued how all this is going to play out...the physics aspect of it.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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As well as events seen in the sun and moon, we are told that there will be great deception and "lying wonders", along with much falling away from the true faith...

I watched this one on the spate of 'black smoke rings' and it occured to me that these may be another hint of a possible diabolical cover story many in the world will accept if the events of Revelation begin to unfold.

 

llleopard

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Continuing to run with cosmic phenomena theme.
This particular description (lights going out) is recurrent, so many times: The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light...
[Isaiah 13:10, 24:23, 34:4, Jeremiah 4:23, Amos 5:18,20, Zephaniah 1:15, Matthew 24:29, 2 Peter 3:10,12, Revelation 6:12-14]

When that does happen, it won't just affect earth but the entire solar system. When the sun goes dark, so will Jupiter's 67 moons, so will every other planet. Iam just really intrigued how all this is going to play out...the physics aspect of it.
Very interesting to see how you interpret these verses! I look at all prophecy from a Kingdom perspective, and use the typology and symbols to find meaning. So to me, these verses are (like Revelation) spiritually interpreted.
In typology, very simply, the Sun is God/Jesus, and the Moon is the Church - ie the church is the reflected glory of the sun. Stars always represent a particular kind of people (ministers of the gospel, Christians).
So in this kind of passage, it can mean that before the day of the Lord, (when the fullness of God will be manifested in the Sons of God), the church will not be seen in the world, because the ministers of the word have fallen, or ceased to show light. The glory and free communication of God will be withdrawn in this time - the sun will be darkened.
So what I am looking for in the future, is these patterns in the behaviour of people, especially those of 'stature' in the church, and the behaviour of the corporate church - rather than a literal, physical catastrophic cosmic event.
Does anyone else use types and symbols and have a Kingdom perspective on here....or is it just me? Curious. :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I think there are a variety of views to prophecy in the Bible.

I have benefitted in understanding the way that Jews in the OT would look at scripture...

The Jews saw up to four different senses in scripture using their study method PRDS.

In short, ‘P’ is the ‘plain sense’ interpretation of a passage and is viewed as the primary layer of any scripture. Every scripture has at least the Pashat layer.

‘R’ is the study of implied applications or spiritual truths based on a passage.

‘D’ is the study of allegories, types, and other applications by cross-referencing other scripture.

'S' deals with underlying truths hinted at or hidden in the text by Hebrew numerology or word use, such as the number of the beast being ‘666.'

With these layers of meaning, looking back at scripture with a modern view can lead to either/or views of prophecy...

David L Cooper came up with what he called the ‘golden rule of interpretation’ in the early 20th century:

“When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at it’s primary, ordinary, usual meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”

This strict 'Protestant exegesis' guards against the trickery and nonsense of some of the corruption that Martin Luther rebelled against in Catholicism, but imo 'narrows' many modern interpretations.

This kind of thinking leads Preterists, Kingdom and Futurists to claim that their view is the most 'plain' and therefore the only reading that is valid, and argue with one another!

Perhaps the "all of them at once" view is more in line with the spirit in which they were given, and with the people the message was written to originally.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Continuing to run with cosmic phenomena theme.
This particular description (lights going out) is recurrent, so many times: The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light...
[Isaiah 13:10, 24:23, 34:4, Jeremiah 4:23, Amos 5:18,20, Zephaniah 1:15, Matthew 24:29, 2 Peter 3:10,12, Revelation 6:12-14]

When that does happen, it won't just affect earth but the entire solar system. When the sun goes dark, so will Jupiter's 67 moons, so will every other planet. Iam just really intrigued how all this is going to play out...the physics aspect of it.
A solar eclipse is set to pass over the United States on August 21.

It’s a big deal because one hasn’t been visible from the continental United States in 37 years and one hasn’t passed over the country in almost 100 years.

A solar eclipse happens when the moon passes between the Sun and the Earth, blocking out a significant chunk of the Sun’s rays.

So what does the Bible have to say about this strange natural occurrence?

There’s passages scattered throughout scripture that talk about the sun being blacked out or darkness descending on the land.

Sounds kind of like an eclipse, right?

During the plagues of Egypt, God covered the land in a darkness. Exodus 10:21-23 says, “Then the Lord said to Moses, “Lift your hand toward heaven, and the land of Egypt will be covered with a darkness so thick you can feel it.” So Moses lifted his hand to the sky, and a deep darkness covered the entire land of Egypt for three days. During all that time the people could not see each other, and no one moved. But there was light as usual where the people of Israel lived."

And during Jesus’ crucifixion in the New Testament, something similar happens.

Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.’ Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him. At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon," says Mark 15:32-33.

There are also biblical prophecies about the sun going dark.

Revelation 6:12 reads, “I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.”

And different passages in different books predict what seems to be the same thing.

Matthew 24:29 also foretells a sort of eclipse, or something like one. It says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened.” Mark 13:24 essentially says the same thing.

And both Joel 2:31 and Acts 2:20 say that the sun has to go dark, and the moon must turn “into blood,” before the “day of the Lord,” happens.

So while this may be a strange occurrence, it’s no secret to God or the authors of the Bible. In fact, many believe that God uses signs and wonders in the heavens to communicate with His people.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/july/the-coming-solar-eclipse-what-the-bible-tells-us-about-this-phenomenon
 

Karlysymon

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Very interesting to see how you interpret these verses! I look at all prophecy from a Kingdom perspective, and use the typology and symbols to find meaning. So to me, these verses are (like Revelation) spiritually interpreted.
In typology, very simply, the Sun is God/Jesus, and the Moon is the Church - ie the church is the reflected glory of the sun. Stars always represent a particular kind of people (ministers of the gospel, Christians).
So in this kind of passage, it can mean that before the day of the Lord, (when the fullness of God will be manifested in the Sons of God), the church will not be seen in the world, because the ministers of the word have fallen, or ceased to show light. The glory and free communication of God will be withdrawn in this time - the sun will be darkened.
So what I am looking for in the future, is these patterns in the behaviour of people, especially those of 'stature' in the church, and the behaviour of the corporate church - rather than a literal, physical catastrophic cosmic event.
Does anyone else use types and symbols and have a Kingdom perspective on here....or is it just me? Curious. :)
Thank you! I've never looked at it the way, at all. I take the verses literally because of: the context, and available evidence such as that the sun is actually shrinking hence less sunlight is reaching the earth (i know, this is climate change territory). But you are also right. I've mentioned it before in this thread that the HolySpirit will be withdrawn after everyone has made their decision and there'll be a spiritual darkness of sorts.

@Red Sky at Morning
Haven't heard of black rings before. Do you guys remember the Trumpet videos? That time that people around the world often heard the sounds of trumpets coming from the sky. Gov'ts always feigned ignorance. Dry run of something? Who knows?
I've heard of the upcoming eclipse next month. Heard of the upcoming 3 days of darkness?
 

llleopard

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I think there are a variety of views to prophecy in the Bible.

I have benefitted in understanding the way that Jews in the OT would look at scripture...

The Jews saw up to four different senses in scripture using their study method PRDS.

In short, ‘P’ is the ‘plain sense’ interpretation of a passage and is viewed as the primary layer of any scripture. Every scripture has at least the Pashat layer.

‘R’ is the study of implied applications or spiritual truths based on a passage.

‘D’ is the study of allegories, types, and other applications by cross-referencing other scripture.

'S' deals with underlying truths hinted at or hidden in the text by Hebrew numerology or word use, such as the number of the beast being ‘666.'

With these layers of meaning, looking back at scripture with a modern view can lead to either/or views of prophecy...

David L Cooper came up with what he called the ‘golden rule of interpretation’ in the early 20th century:

“When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at it’s primary, ordinary, usual meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”

This strict 'Protestant exegesis' guards against the trickery and nonsense of some of the corruption that Martin Luther rebelled against in Catholicism, but imo 'narrows' many modern interpretations.

This kind of thinking leads Preterists, Kingdom and Futurists to claim that their view is the most 'plain' and therefore the only reading that is valid, and argue with one another!

Perhaps the "all of them at once" view is more in line with the spirit in which they were given, and with the people the message was written to originally.
OOOOOOOOOOOOO exciting! never heard of prsd before....but sounds eminently sensible! just googling it...gonna have to think about this and ask my Messianic Jewish friend what he knows about it :) :) :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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OOOOOOOOOOOOO exciting! never heard of prsd before....but sounds eminently sensible! just googling it...gonna have to think about this and ask my Messianic Jewish friend what he knows about it :) :) :)
I came across the following a little while ago...

Hebrew Word Study: Revealing The Heart Of God

"As an instructor in both ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, Chaim Bentorah is convinced that there are powerful truths buried in the original language of God's Word that most Christians have never been exposed to. The Word of God is like the heart of God: it is a well that never runs dry. In this book, you will discover things about God and your relationship with Him that you may never have considered. By delving into the multiple layers and nuances of the ancient Hebrew language, you will discover that God is revealing His heart to you through the depths of His Word in new and exciting ways.

Hebrew is a language of poetry and pictures. With Bentorah's expertise, you will see how to examine not just word definitions, but also the origin of the words, their place in the culture and idioms of the day, and even their emotional context. Through this devotional, you will walk the road less traveled as you uncover the deeper spiritual messages in God's Word. In the process, you will discover the heart of God toward you and come to know Him better. You will see just how beautiful the Word of God is and, most of all, you will see the beauty of God Himself and love Him all the more."

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hebrew-Word-Study-Revealing-Heart-ebook/dp/B01JN1QEZQ/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1500473040&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=Chaim+Ben+torah

On PRDS...

The four levels of interpretation are called: Parshat, Remez, D’rash & Sod.

The first letter of each word
P-R-D-S is taken, and vowels are added for pronunciation, giving the acronym PARDES (meaning “garden” or “orchard”, paradise). Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion.

http://donotaddorsubtract.com/blog/2013/03/06/hebraic-levels-of-biblical-interpretation/
 
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Karlysymon

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Serveto

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The four levels of interpretation are called: Parshat, Remez, D’rash & Sod.

The first letter of each word
P-R-D-S is taken, and vowels are added for pronunciation, giving the acronym PARDES (meaning “garden” or “orchard”, paradise). Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion ...
"Beware the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees," and perhaps, even more so, the leaven of the Kabbalists {click here}.:cool:
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I agree with that too! I can see so many ways it is easy to start with truth and end with error!

One of the things that saddened me recently was listening to someone who had thoroughly managed to throw the baby out with the bathwater in his embrace of the Jewish roots of the Christian faith. He managed to 'unlearn' the message of Galatians in his embrace of his 'Hebrew Roots', returning to living under the Law as a Christian.

This is a very sad error imo as we live in the age of grace, where Jew and Gentile are one in Christ.
 

llleopard

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On PRDS...

The four levels of interpretation are called: Parshat, Remez, D’rash & Sod.

The first letter of each word
P-R-D-S is taken, and vowels are added for pronunciation, giving the acronym PARDES (meaning “garden” or “orchard”, paradise). Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion.

http://donotaddorsubtract.com/blog/2013/03/06/hebraic-levels-of-biblical-interpretation/[/QUOTE]

Funny - I looked this up and showed my husband with enthusiasm.....and he went 'meh...it's just what we do everyday anyway' so I said enthusiastically 'Yes, but someone has written it down logically so it's easier to show people '....and he's like...."Is it a Jewish thing?"....so I'm like 'yes"....and he says 'with all due respect to the Jews, if they are still Jews after studying the scriptures like this then they missed the whole point of doing it anyway.' which made me laugh. :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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On PRDS...

The four levels of interpretation are called: Parshat, Remez, D’rash & Sod.

The first letter of each word
P-R-D-S is taken, and vowels are added for pronunciation, giving the acronym PARDES (meaning “garden” or “orchard”, paradise). Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion.

http://donotaddorsubtract.com/blog/2013/03/06/hebraic-levels-of-biblical-interpretation/

Funny - I looked this up and showed my husband with enthusiasm.....and he went 'meh...it's just what we do everyday anyway' so I said enthusiastically 'Yes, but someone has written it down logically so it's easier to show people '....and he's like...."Is it a Jewish thing?"....so I'm like 'yes"....and he says 'with all due respect to the Jews, if they are still Jews after studying the scriptures like this then they missed the whole point of doing it anyway.' which made me laugh. :)
Made me laugh too (with a tinge of sadness)

'Hardness of heart', I think it's called!
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I wonder if anyone here has given thought to the story of Joseph? I spend a long time contemplating it and some of the parallels between his story and that of Jesus really hit me...
 
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