Prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Bible

Serveto

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That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background. That is where Christian culture has gone. Islam is much, much superior to Christianity.
If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
 

Etagloc

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I seriously recommend the video for anyone who hasn't watched it yet. The video is much more worthwhile than many of the posts here.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
Unfortunately, for those genuine Christians, such material is in many ways like trying to buttonhole someone coming out of a restaurant and trying to persuade them they haven't ate a meal.

If you are truly saved, you experience the inner witness of the Holy Spirit, and even today I felt His presence. I was never "argued" into faith, and could never be argued out of it.
 

elsbet

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If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
I wonder if he realizes he is speaking for everyone of his faith, even if inadvertently. Should we dismiss it, or be grateful for his candor?

We are left to ponder such things. :confused:
 

Damien50

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I wonder if he realizes he is speaking for everyone of his faith, even if inadvertently. Should we dismiss it, or be grateful for his candor?

We are left to ponder such things. :confused:
A lesson from God
 

vigilante71

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But what is the religion underpinning the West?

That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background.
I have seen your multiple threads and you have shared some good useful stuff, but this kind of assumptions could appear disrespectful for true Christians, and make them hate Islam without any good reason.
I think we could "dislike" other religions for reasons of our own, but we should not condemn other people's faith or beliefs. Trying to fight over religions doesn't get us anywhere, it will just spread useless hate and frustration.

I know you have your reasons for not liking the West and Christianity but I think we should learn to at least tolerate each other. One of the reasons I was drawn to this board was that I saw people with different ideas and perspectives discuss a single matter in peace at some of the threads. Even if your intentions are good (which I believe it is) and you are trying to make people see the horrible side effects of western culture, It just does not work this way.
Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity. If anything, it is IGNORING God and Christ that has led to this. There are things on Christian beliefs that I can't accept, but I've seen faithful Christians who are living and acting way better than some so-called Muslims. And I don't think the title of "Muslim" or "Christian" matters to God. It's actions that matter.
 
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Etagloc

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Even if she is Christian it has nothing to do with Christianity.
Is that so? Of course there are Muslims who are imitating the non-Muslims and so even Muslims are starting to adopt the ways of the disbelievers.

But why is it that "Christian" societies are leading the way when it comes to such decadence?

I mean if I am going to purchase a brand of car- I know the car is supposed to work and supposed to take me from point A to point B. But if I know this particular brand of car is associated with accidents- that there is some higher rate of danger with this car- someone might say it's not how the car works in theory- but in practice this car keeps getting such disastrous results- I think there is something wrong with the car. It's not a safe car to drive. Of course, you can have an accident in any car but this car is less safe. I want the more reliable car.

And "Christians have changed". I wouldn't say so. Previously they were involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Currently in Palestine they are involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So if there is a period where Christians followed their teachings- if we want to find that period- we need to eliminate the past 500 years of colonialism and living nightmares for everyone the "Christians" encounter.

Now we're 500 years in the past and we need to go 500 years before to go beyond the previous 500 years of Crusades.

So now we're 1,000 years in the past. The Catholic Church IS Christianity. Protestantism doesn't exist yet, with its terrifying figure slash spiritual father of Protestant Christianity- Martin "Massacre the Peasants" Luther, pioneer of Idiocracy (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Murderous,_Thieving_Hordes_of_Peasants "Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason." "Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews."
"The law is the Word in which God teaches and tells us what we are to do and not to do, as in the Ten commandments. ... The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."
"If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?" "We do not become righteous by doing righteous deeds but, having been made righteous, we do righteous deeds." "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." "The reproduction of mankind is a great marvel and mystery. Had God consulted me in the matter, I should have advised him to continue the generation of the species by fashioning them of clay, in the way Adam was fashioned." "My opinion is that it is better that all the peasants be killed than that the princes and magistrates perish, because the rustics took the sword without divine authority. The only possible consequence of their satanic wickedness would be the diabolic devastation of the kingdom of God. Even if the princes abuse their power, yet they have it of God, and under their rule the kingdom of God at least has a chance to exist. Wherefore no pity, no tolerance should be shown to the peasants, but the fury and wrath of God should be visited upon those men who did not heed warning nor yield when just terms were offered them, but continued with satanic fury to confound everything. ... To justify, pity, or favor them is to deny, blaspheme, and try to pull God from heaven." "I will not oppose a ruler who, even though he does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgment. ... If anyone thinks this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.")

“No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” “Reason is the devils handmaid and does nothing but blaspheme and dishonor all that God says or does.” “Reason is directly opposed to faith, and one ought to let it be; in believers it should be killed and buried.”





(and that Bible is the one that Protestants use!)



yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It is pretty clear that Protestantism emerged from the mind of a psychopath. And that explains why its theology is so bizarre and unnatural.



very selective in interpreting the Bible


you can't even make this stuff up






The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095

okay now obvious the guy who put together Protestantism and what Protestants are still repeating to this day as far as theology- obviously, he was a lunatic-

but let me get off my tangent.

We're 1,000 years in the past. Martin Luther hasn't been born, Protestantism doesn't exist yet.

Catholicism IS Christianity.

It's well known that the Catholic Church has mixed paganism and Christianity.

Furthermore, look at the Catholic Church today

This is terrifying stuff:

So.... if there is a car that mysteriously gets in way more accidents than other cars..... the car can say whatever... I'm just saying that we have to consider the possibility that there might be something innately flawed and/or dangerous about that car (and I understand that Muslims are not perfect but I don't know of any instance of Muslims wiping out an entire race of people
). There is something wrong built into Christianity. We would have to basically ignore the entire history of Christianity to not see that.

And if we read our Quran- we see what it is. We see what is built into Christianity that is fundamentally wrong. It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Quran explains. To understand the issue- all we have to do is read the word of Allah and Allah explains. The Christians.... 90% (I am guessing here) have never read the Quran. They don't own a copy. They've never read it. They're convinced they're superior. They are utterly convinced they are superior, they believe they have no need to read the Quran. When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

So we are very fortunate. We have the Quran and we can study the word of Allah and learn where Christianity goes wrong and exactly why it is wrong to worship a human. The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

We have to hold fast to the rope of Allah and we have to maintain our faith in Allah and our faith in Islam which is perfect and which is the innate religion. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

We can read the Quran and understand where the Christians went wrong. We can read the Quran and understand why Jesus (may peace be upon him) was a Muslim and why truly following his message would entail following Islam. The Christians, generally, refuse to read the Quran and so they deprive themselves of the opportunity to truly understand Christianity and why it is false- and then to follow the straight path!

This is from a former Christian pastor:


and I am not saying these things to be hurtful to Christians. I have much respect for real Christians who are sincere and who are serious.

However, as Aristotle pointed out (this is not the actual quote but this a paraphrase- though, I seemingly never tire of quoting this)



Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
 

Damien50

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Is that so? Of course there are Muslims who are imitating the non-Muslims and so even Muslims are starting to adopt the ways of the disbelievers.

But why is it that "Christian" societies are leading the way when it comes to such decadence?

I mean if I am going to purchase a brand of car- I know the car is supposed to work and supposed to take me from point A to point B. But if I know this particular brand of car is associated with accidents- that there is some higher rate of danger with this car- someone might say it's not how the car works in theory- but in practice this car keeps getting such disastrous results- I think there is something wrong with the car. It's not a safe car to drive. Of course, you can have an accident in any car but this car is less safe. I want the more reliable car.

And "Christians have changed". I wouldn't say so. Previously they were involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Currently in Palestine they are involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So if there is a period where Christians followed their teachings- if we want to find that period- we need to eliminate the past 500 years of colonialism and living nightmares for everyone the "Christians" encounter.

Now we're 500 years in the past and we need to go 500 years before to go beyond the previous 500 years of Crusades.

So now we're 1,000 years in the past. The Catholic Church IS Christianity. Protestantism doesn't exist yet, with its terrifying figure slash spiritual father of Protestant Christianity- Martin "Massacre the Peasants" Luther, pioneer of Idiocracy (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Murderous,_Thieving_Hordes_of_Peasants "Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason." "Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews."
"The law is the Word in which God teaches and tells us what we are to do and not to do, as in the Ten commandments. ... The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."
"If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?" "We do not become righteous by doing righteous deeds but, having been made righteous, we do righteous deeds." "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." "The reproduction of mankind is a great marvel and mystery. Had God consulted me in the matter, I should have advised him to continue the generation of the species by fashioning them of clay, in the way Adam was fashioned." "My opinion is that it is better that all the peasants be killed than that the princes and magistrates perish, because the rustics took the sword without divine authority. The only possible consequence of their satanic wickedness would be the diabolic devastation of the kingdom of God. Even if the princes abuse their power, yet they have it of God, and under their rule the kingdom of God at least has a chance to exist. Wherefore no pity, no tolerance should be shown to the peasants, but the fury and wrath of God should be visited upon those men who did not heed warning nor yield when just terms were offered them, but continued with satanic fury to confound everything. ... To justify, pity, or favor them is to deny, blaspheme, and try to pull God from heaven." "I will not oppose a ruler who, even though he does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgment. ... If anyone thinks this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.")

“No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” “Reason is the devils handmaid and does nothing but blaspheme and dishonor all that God says or does.” “Reason is directly opposed to faith, and one ought to let it be; in believers it should be killed and buried.”





(and that Bible is the one that Protestants use!)



yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It is pretty clear that Protestantism emerged from the mind of a psychopath. And that explains why its theology is so bizarre and unnatural.



very selective in interpreting the Bible


you can't even make this stuff up






The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095

okay now obvious the guy who put together Protestantism and what Protestants are still repeating to this day as far as theology- obviously, he was a lunatic-

but let me get off my tangent.

We're 1,000 years in the past. Martin Luther hasn't been born, Protestantism doesn't exist yet.

Catholicism IS Christianity.

It's well known that the Catholic Church has mixed paganism and Christianity.

Furthermore, look at the Catholic Church today

This is terrifying stuff:

So.... if there is a car that mysteriously gets in way more accidents than other cars..... the car can say whatever... I'm just saying that we have to consider the possibility that there might be something innately flawed and/or dangerous about that car (and I understand that Muslims are not perfect but I don't know of any instance of Muslims wiping out an entire race of people
). There is something wrong built into Christianity. We would have to basically ignore the entire history of Christianity to not see that.

And if we read our Quran- we see what it is. We see what is built into Christianity that is fundamentally wrong. It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Quran explains. To understand the issue- all we have to do is read the word of Allah and Allah explains. The Christians.... 90% (I am guessing here) have never read the Quran. They don't own a copy. They've never read it. They're convinced they're superior. They are utterly convinced they are superior, they believe they have no need to read the Quran. When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

So we are very fortunate. We have the Quran and we can study the word of Allah and learn where Christianity goes wrong and exactly why it is wrong to worship a human. The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

We have to hold fast to the rope of Allah and we have to maintain our faith in Allah and our faith in Islam which is perfect and which is the innate religion. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

We can read the Quran and understand where the Christians went wrong. We can read the Quran and understand why Jesus (may peace be upon him) was a Muslim and why truly following his message would entail following Islam. The Christians, generally, refuse to read the Quran and so they deprive themselves of the opportunity to truly understand Christianity and why it is false- and then to follow the straight path!

This is from a former Christian pastor:


and I am not saying these things to be hurtful to Christians. I have much respect for real Christians who are sincere and who are serious.

However, as Aristotle pointed out (this is not the actual quote but this a paraphrase- though, I seemingly never tire of quoting this)



Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
You should stick to Islam with your little knowledge of Christianity. This is such an post filled with fallacy after fallacy.

Christian societies don't lead the way because most Christians live in secular societies that disapprove of them to various extents and it is secularism that leads the west. Money is god and that directs the west. That would be like me saying that ISIS and Islam have led the middle east to war and constant drone strikes.

To your whole little spiel on colonialism and Christianity, those two don't go hand in regardless of how many monarchs claimed divine rule. Catholicism has never been Christianity and it was the Catholics that persecuted the Anabaptist, which you don't even know, and the various sects of Christians near and far that wouldn't adopt their benefits were massacred and slaughtered for following fast to their bibles and their Christianity. These people had nothing to do with crusades, divine rule, genocide, colonialism or any of the other bullshit you're spouting and lived and walked Christianity. But you don't know that. You don't know how the King James Bible was compiled over several hundred years piece by piece by these same groups that the Catholics persecuted that through successive generations preserved the word of God through various languages and lands.

You throw around fallacies like there is something wrong with Christianity when the same reprobates could exist and do exist in Islam and many other religions. Like your little memes and pictures are cute but you criticize something you obviously have a small understanding of.

Really though? Not every Christian sect even worshipped with a Trinity mind set which existed prior to Catholicism despite its own inherent issues and yet here you are telling people to read the Qur'an to find the issues in Christianity when you don't even understand the bible and criticize things out of context. Why don't you seriously study the bible maybe you'll come to understand the who what where why and when of the word of God manifest in the flesh rather than summoning strawmen about how Christians are polytheist.

And Martin Luther doesn't guide Christians bruh. God and his word do.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Winston Churchill (ww2) in Homer's Illiad

things-that-make-you-go-hmmm.jpg

Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. This is commonly referred to as reading into the text.[1] The act is often used to "prove" a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda. Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis. While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
 

Etagloc

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Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. This is commonly referred to as reading into the text.[1] The act is often used to "prove" a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda. Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis. While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
What a useful term for understanding Christian Zionism.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Red Sky at Morning bit silly to try making fun when you know
1) the promise God made for Ishmael
2) texts like Isaiah 42 where the new song prophecy directly mentions
Where Kedar lives (the quraysh descend from him this is Mecca. The Mt of sela ( in Medina).

Right after this God condensed the Jews calling them blind and deaf.
"I have shown you may things"
(What things?)
So that rules out that prophecy being messianic...
Upto verse 9 it is messianic (Christianity) then the prophecy changes to the new song prophecy which very accurately describes the rise of Islam. Then God condemns the n
Jews.
The real messianic Zion era won't be a time where Jews will be condemned by God but redeemed.


As for the prophet...
The holy spirit was in him. It's something the Qur'an says..
Understand what Jesus said in John 16..
Speak and gear only what he hears
This applies to a person who hears the word if God. ..fulfilled through the holy spirit.
"He will tell you all the us to come and will testify about me".
"He will give you ALL the truth"

Furthermore you have multiple shadow themes coming from the collective Jewish consciousness in the 7th century AD that led to the creation of a Jewish state and the war between Sassanids and byzantines
Contexts that led to the Islamic conquest.

The very thing the Jews desired for themselves was given to the other race...
Where in the Torah was that theme promised?
Too bad you have one dimensional thinking. The holy spirit chose prophet Mohammed and Islam to achieve monotheism after Christians butchered it.
The most important truth of the entire revelation is belief in God..and you worship a man. No matter how important..he is not God. God may be immanent in him...as He is in all people....and all things...but Jesus is not God...and only the Catholic church fathers and the fact Henry 8th allowed those beliefs to continue existing in Protestantism is why you are believing in that crap whilst under the same breath calling the Catholic church "the whore of Babylon".
 

DavidSon

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I watched the video and then re-read from around chapter 40 where the Most High is speaking to Hezekiah. This begins the Book of Comfort (ch. 40-66).

I can see why people might feel the "Elect One" is an individual. The text does say "he" and even "Him" in my version. The first depiction is in 41:25-

"I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come; from the rising of the sun he shall call on My name; and he shall come against princes as through mortar, as the potter treads clay".

In chapter 42 we have another 4 verses, but afterwards the point of attention shifts. It seems like this first part of 42 is a continuation of 41. For me it's a short and vague reference, I think it could be a stretch to define "Him" as Jesus or Muhammad. Again I don't see the relation to verse 6 and onward, which is clearly about the people of God. "Him" and "My Elect One" may just be a metaphor for His chosen people.

The dialogue in both chapters is intriguing -comparing lifeless idols, asking them for prophesy, to the true counselor and messenger, who is essentially God. There is also a cry for the people to open their eyes and ears, to see and listen. These are mystical passages, glad they were brought up.
 
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