Prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Bible

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#81
Is that so? Of course there are Muslims who are imitating the non-Muslims and so even Muslims are starting to adopt the ways of the disbelievers.

But why is it that "Christian" societies are leading the way when it comes to such decadence?

I mean if I am going to purchase a brand of car- I know the car is supposed to work and supposed to take me from point A to point B. But if I know this particular brand of car is associated with accidents- that there is some higher rate of danger with this car- someone might say it's not how the car works in theory- but in practice this car keeps getting such disastrous results- I think there is something wrong with the car. It's not a safe car to drive. Of course, you can have an accident in any car but this car is less safe. I want the more reliable car.

And "Christians have changed". I wouldn't say so. Previously they were involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Currently in Palestine they are involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So if there is a period where Christians followed their teachings- if we want to find that period- we need to eliminate the past 500 years of colonialism and living nightmares for everyone the "Christians" encounter.

Now we're 500 years in the past and we need to go 500 years before to go beyond the previous 500 years of Crusades.

So now we're 1,000 years in the past. The Catholic Church IS Christianity. Protestantism doesn't exist yet, with its terrifying figure slash spiritual father of Protestant Christianity- Martin "Massacre the Peasants" Luther, pioneer of Idiocracy (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Murderous,_Thieving_Hordes_of_Peasants "Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason." "Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews."
"The law is the Word in which God teaches and tells us what we are to do and not to do, as in the Ten commandments. ... The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."
"If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?" "We do not become righteous by doing righteous deeds but, having been made righteous, we do righteous deeds." "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." "The reproduction of mankind is a great marvel and mystery. Had God consulted me in the matter, I should have advised him to continue the generation of the species by fashioning them of clay, in the way Adam was fashioned." "My opinion is that it is better that all the peasants be killed than that the princes and magistrates perish, because the rustics took the sword without divine authority. The only possible consequence of their satanic wickedness would be the diabolic devastation of the kingdom of God. Even if the princes abuse their power, yet they have it of God, and under their rule the kingdom of God at least has a chance to exist. Wherefore no pity, no tolerance should be shown to the peasants, but the fury and wrath of God should be visited upon those men who did not heed warning nor yield when just terms were offered them, but continued with satanic fury to confound everything. ... To justify, pity, or favor them is to deny, blaspheme, and try to pull God from heaven." "I will not oppose a ruler who, even though he does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgment. ... If anyone thinks this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.")

“No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” “Reason is the devils handmaid and does nothing but blaspheme and dishonor all that God says or does.” “Reason is directly opposed to faith, and one ought to let it be; in believers it should be killed and buried.”





(and that Bible is the one that Protestants use!)



yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It is pretty clear that Protestantism emerged from the mind of a psychopath. And that explains why its theology is so bizarre and unnatural.



very selective in interpreting the Bible


you can't even make this stuff up






The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095

okay now obvious the guy who put together Protestantism and what Protestants are still repeating to this day as far as theology- obviously, he was a lunatic-

but let me get off my tangent.

We're 1,000 years in the past. Martin Luther hasn't been born, Protestantism doesn't exist yet.

Catholicism IS Christianity.

It's well known that the Catholic Church has mixed paganism and Christianity.

Furthermore, look at the Catholic Church today

This is terrifying stuff:

So.... if there is a car that mysteriously gets in way more accidents than other cars..... the car can say whatever... I'm just saying that we have to consider the possibility that there might be something innately flawed and/or dangerous about that car (and I understand that Muslims are not perfect but I don't know of any instance of Muslims wiping out an entire race of people
). There is something wrong built into Christianity. We would have to basically ignore the entire history of Christianity to not see that.

And if we read our Quran- we see what it is. We see what is built into Christianity that is fundamentally wrong. It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Quran explains. To understand the issue- all we have to do is read the word of Allah and Allah explains. The Christians.... 90% (I am guessing here) have never read the Quran. They don't own a copy. They've never read it. They're convinced they're superior. They are utterly convinced they are superior, they believe they have no need to read the Quran. When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

So we are very fortunate. We have the Quran and we can study the word of Allah and learn where Christianity goes wrong and exactly why it is wrong to worship a human. The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

We have to hold fast to the rope of Allah and we have to maintain our faith in Allah and our faith in Islam which is perfect and which is the innate religion. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

We can read the Quran and understand where the Christians went wrong. We can read the Quran and understand why Jesus (may peace be upon him) was a Muslim and why truly following his message would entail following Islam. The Christians, generally, refuse to read the Quran and so they deprive themselves of the opportunity to truly understand Christianity and why it is false- and then to follow the straight path!

This is from a former Christian pastor:


and I am not saying these things to be hurtful to Christians. I have much respect for real Christians who are sincere and who are serious.

However, as Aristotle pointed out (this is not the actual quote but this a paraphrase- though, I seemingly never tire of quoting this)



Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
You should stick to Islam with your little knowledge of Christianity. This is such an post filled with fallacy after fallacy.

Christian societies don't lead the way because most Christians live in secular societies that disapprove of them to various extents and it is secularism that leads the west. Money is god and that directs the west. That would be like me saying that ISIS and Islam have led the middle east to war and constant drone strikes.

To your whole little spiel on colonialism and Christianity, those two don't go hand in regardless of how many monarchs claimed divine rule. Catholicism has never been Christianity and it was the Catholics that persecuted the Anabaptist, which you don't even know, and the various sects of Christians near and far that wouldn't adopt their benefits were massacred and slaughtered for following fast to their bibles and their Christianity. These people had nothing to do with crusades, divine rule, genocide, colonialism or any of the other bullshit you're spouting and lived and walked Christianity. But you don't know that. You don't know how the King James Bible was compiled over several hundred years piece by piece by these same groups that the Catholics persecuted that through successive generations preserved the word of God through various languages and lands.

You throw around fallacies like there is something wrong with Christianity when the same reprobates could exist and do exist in Islam and many other religions. Like your little memes and pictures are cute but you criticize something you obviously have a small understanding of.

Really though? Not every Christian sect even worshipped with a Trinity mind set which existed prior to Catholicism despite its own inherent issues and yet here you are telling people to read the Qur'an to find the issues in Christianity when you don't even understand the bible and criticize things out of context. Why don't you seriously study the bible maybe you'll come to understand the who what where why and when of the word of God manifest in the flesh rather than summoning strawmen about how Christians are polytheist.

And Martin Luther doesn't guide Christians bruh. God and his word do.
 




friend

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#83
Is that so? Of course there are Muslims who are imitating the non-Muslims and so even Muslims are starting to adopt the ways of the disbelievers.

But why is it that "Christian" societies are leading the way when it comes to such decadence?

I mean if I am going to purchase a brand of car- I know the car is supposed to work and supposed to take me from point A to point B. But if I know this particular brand of car is associated with accidents- that there is some higher rate of danger with this car- someone might say it's not how the car works in theory- but in practice this car keeps getting such disastrous results- I think there is something wrong with the car. It's not a safe car to drive. Of course, you can have an accident in any car but this car is less safe. I want the more reliable car.

And "Christians have changed". I wouldn't say so. Previously they were involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Currently in Palestine they are involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So if there is a period where Christians followed their teachings- if we want to find that period- we need to eliminate the past 500 years of colonialism and living nightmares for everyone the "Christians" encounter.

Now we're 500 years in the past and we need to go 500 years before to go beyond the previous 500 years of Crusades.

So now we're 1,000 years in the past. The Catholic Church IS Christianity. Protestantism doesn't exist yet, with its terrifying figure slash spiritual father of Protestant Christianity- Martin "Massacre the Peasants" Luther, pioneer of Idiocracy (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Murderous,_Thieving_Hordes_of_Peasants "Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason." "Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews."
"The law is the Word in which God teaches and tells us what we are to do and not to do, as in the Ten commandments. ... The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."
"If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?" "We do not become righteous by doing righteous deeds but, having been made righteous, we do righteous deeds." "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." "The reproduction of mankind is a great marvel and mystery. Had God consulted me in the matter, I should have advised him to continue the generation of the species by fashioning them of clay, in the way Adam was fashioned." "My opinion is that it is better that all the peasants be killed than that the princes and magistrates perish, because the rustics took the sword without divine authority. The only possible consequence of their satanic wickedness would be the diabolic devastation of the kingdom of God. Even if the princes abuse their power, yet they have it of God, and under their rule the kingdom of God at least has a chance to exist. Wherefore no pity, no tolerance should be shown to the peasants, but the fury and wrath of God should be visited upon those men who did not heed warning nor yield when just terms were offered them, but continued with satanic fury to confound everything. ... To justify, pity, or favor them is to deny, blaspheme, and try to pull God from heaven." "I will not oppose a ruler who, even though he does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgment. ... If anyone thinks this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.")

“No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” “Reason is the devils handmaid and does nothing but blaspheme and dishonor all that God says or does.” “Reason is directly opposed to faith, and one ought to let it be; in believers it should be killed and buried.”





(and that Bible is the one that Protestants use!)



yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It is pretty clear that Protestantism emerged from the mind of a psychopath. And that explains why its theology is so bizarre and unnatural.



very selective in interpreting the Bible


you can't even make this stuff up






The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095

okay now obvious the guy who put together Protestantism and what Protestants are still repeating to this day as far as theology- obviously, he was a lunatic-

but let me get off my tangent.

We're 1,000 years in the past. Martin Luther hasn't been born, Protestantism doesn't exist yet.

Catholicism IS Christianity.

It's well known that the Catholic Church has mixed paganism and Christianity.

Furthermore, look at the Catholic Church today

This is terrifying stuff:

So.... if there is a car that mysteriously gets in way more accidents than other cars..... the car can say whatever... I'm just saying that we have to consider the possibility that there might be something innately flawed and/or dangerous about that car (and I understand that Muslims are not perfect but I don't know of any instance of Muslims wiping out an entire race of people
). There is something wrong built into Christianity. We would have to basically ignore the entire history of Christianity to not see that.

And if we read our Quran- we see what it is. We see what is built into Christianity that is fundamentally wrong. It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Quran explains. To understand the issue- all we have to do is read the word of Allah and Allah explains. The Christians.... 90% (I am guessing here) have never read the Quran. They don't own a copy. They've never read it. They're convinced they're superior. They are utterly convinced they are superior, they believe they have no need to read the Quran. When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

So we are very fortunate. We have the Quran and we can study the word of Allah and learn where Christianity goes wrong and exactly why it is wrong to worship a human. The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

We have to hold fast to the rope of Allah and we have to maintain our faith in Allah and our faith in Islam which is perfect and which is the innate religion. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

We can read the Quran and understand where the Christians went wrong. We can read the Quran and understand why Jesus (may peace be upon him) was a Muslim and why truly following his message would entail following Islam. The Christians, generally, refuse to read the Quran and so they deprive themselves of the opportunity to truly understand Christianity and why it is false- and then to follow the straight path!

This is from a former Christian pastor:


and I am not saying these things to be hurtful to Christians. I have much respect for real Christians who are sincere and who are serious.

However, as Aristotle pointed out (this is not the actual quote but this a paraphrase- though, I seemingly never tire of quoting this)



Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
You have raised some very strong points :

"The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

"For though we love both the truth and our friends, piety requires us to honor the truth first" ~ Aristotle.

(the following verse added by me)
"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted." Chapter: Al-Nisa, verse 135
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=4_135

And finally the following verse from Quran :
Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
 




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#84
You have raised some very strong points :

"The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.
Ouch! I am not even a Christian, but that hurt.

I don't know. Thus far, I am generally impressed by the behavior of Christians in this thread. Usually they bristle, foam and fume at the mere impertinence of the suggestion that Muhammad, as anything other than a false prophet, that is, appears in their Bible. I think it's unsportive to try their patience, quite frankly. Legitimate criticism is one thing, insults quite another.

The statement reads that man is by inclination wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin and enemies of God's commandments, but, when placed in its ultimate context, probably, I emphasize probably because I don't even know who made it, goes on to say that Christianity is here to remedy that natural inclination by offering a means of salvation and redemption, not that Christians continue in such behaviors. I offer this in case that wasn't clear.
 




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friend

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#85
Ouch! I am not even a Christian, but that hurt.

I don't know. Thus far, I am generally though not invariably impressed by the behavior of Christians in this thread. Usually they bristle, foam and fume at the mere impertinence of the suggestion that Muhammad, as anything other than a false prophet, that is, appears in their Bible. I think it's unsportive to try their patience, quite frankly. Legitimate criticism is one thing, insults quite another.

The statement reads that man is by inclination wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin and enemies of God's commandments, but, when placed in its ultimate context, probably, I emphasize probably because I don't even know who made it, goes on to say that Christianity is here to remedy that natural inclination by offering a means of salvation and redemption, not that Christians continue in such behaviors. I offer this in case that wasn't clear.

That was not my statement.
 




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#87
That was not my statement.
Part of it was your statement. What did you mean when you said this which follows?

"... sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from."

""The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.
 




friend

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#89
Most of it, in fact.

I see. I perhaps mistakenly read you as saying that "pretty much any of the Christian posters on here are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin and enemies of God's commandments." If so, I think the judgment unduly harsh and uncharitable. If not, then please disregard my comments.
I consider you a honest seeker of truth. no i did not take any offense at all.
". . . and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82)
 




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#90
You have raised some very strong points :

"The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

"For though we love both the truth and our friends, piety requires us to honor the truth first" ~ Aristotle.

(the following verse added by me)
"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted." Chapter: Al-Nisa, verse 135
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#aya=4_135

And finally the following verse from Quran :
Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]
Thank you for the verse from Al-Isra! That was really good to read. And thank you for your post!

Part of it was your statement. What did you mean when you said this which follows?

"... sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from."
yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.
People, if you haven't read it, please turn to the previous page and read my post at the bottom of the page. My post explains not only the quote but also discusses Protestantism and Catholicism.

As far as what I was saying in that quote- I was talking about Protestant theology. To be understood, it needs to be read in context in my post on the previous page. I was discussing Protestant theology.

Ouch! I am not even a Christian, but that hurt.

I don't know. Thus far, I am generally impressed by the behavior of Christians in this thread. Usually they bristle, foam and fume at the mere impertinence of the suggestion that Muhammad, as anything other than a false prophet, that is, appears in their Bible. I think it's unsportive to try their patience, quite frankly. Legitimate criticism is one thing, insults quite another.
I wasn't talking about Protestants. I was talking about theology. Specifically I was talking about Martin Luther and Protestant theology. I wasn't talking about Protestants, much less insulting them nor discussing their behavior. I was talking about Protestant theology and Martin Luther. "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."- Martin Luther said that, not me. That you would see a Martin Luther quote and think- "woah, that's going too far"- exactly my point! If you think that's a crazy statement- I am with you! I don't think anyone is "naturally wicked". I think that's a terrifying idea. I think people are naturally good.

But to understand what was being said- I was not personally attacking anyone. And to be understood, it has to be read in the context of my post on the previous page. It can't be understood without understanding the context.

I'm all for discussing ideas and I think we should freely debate ideas but- as I said recently when I thought someone was insulting Christians (and I think if you look at their post, I think they were insulting Christians):

Of course Christians are people. They are people and they have the right to practice their faith. I disagree with them, sure- but I respect Christians. It's as though you attack Christians for talking about morals and trying to promote morals. People are always trying to attack the people who promote morality and act as though it is wrong to promote morality. Pornography has no right to exist. And I don't agree with Christianity sure but when we express my disagreement, I mean nothing against the Christians themselves- I am merely disagreeing with their ideas, I mean nothing against them as people. I respect the Christians. I don't think they should be insulted... You attack them as people rather than merely disagree with their ideas.

Christians and Muslims should both be respected. Both have the right to their views but both should be respected.
This was to a Christian:

I, of course, do not agree with you. However, I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you. I respect you, as I respect all the real Christians.

So I respectfully disagree but certainly you are welcome to post your counter-arguments and explain your side as a Christian.

God Bless.