Prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Bible

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#61
why should women have less share of Inheritance (4:11), or why there must be two female witnesses equaling the testimony of a man (2:282)? why is the act of polygamy allowed for men (Even if it 's under special conditions)? (I certainly don't think it should be allowed for men and women).

My simple short answer :
1 - Inheritance issue,
because men have to provide sustenance (food, shelter, cloth, and all other expenses [and its obligatory] ) for the family at all time (there are exceptions of-course like husband is ill or dead or unable to work).
and its obligatory for the husband he has no right to say no.

Wife, on the other hand, takes less in inheritance but its all hers. she has no duty toward the family at all - No Nothing At All. Period. no one has the right to force her to spend that which belong to her except by her permission.


2 - Witnesses, other forum members would help.

3 - Polygamy, women are always more than men due to large number of male deaths during wars, accidents etc... so if every man gets one woman in that exceptional case then what are the other women going to do and you know they too have desires so they will have secret immoral illegal sexual relationships (with who? yes you are right, with the married men).
women cannot have more than one because men are aggressive over their female partners and putting it short they will kill (when got the chance) any other man having relationship with his partner. forget about 3 other men - there will be WAR.

there are detailed answers to those questions which will further enlighten you.
 




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#62
First of all, thank you for trying to enlighten me. But I explained before that although harshness in Quran bothers me sometimes, It's not what's kept me from submitting to Islam (Indeed it is a type of submission to God). I'm still researching and I don't think I have the right to criticize this faith, but in my path, I've stumbled upon some ideas in Islam that I have not found any logical explanation for. One of them is how women' rights seem to worth less than men in Quran and Islamic laws.(I'm not defending feminism or modern days rules). I understand that Quran's rules with regards to women could have been very modern and more than fair at the time Prophet's life, but there are verses in Quran that as much as I want to believe they are not against women, I can't help it. I know I probably should not compare nowadays with rules of those times, but why should women have less share of Inheritance (4:11), or why there must be two female witnesses equaling the testimony of a man (2:282)? why is the act of polygamy allowed for men (Even if it 's under special conditions)? (I certainly don't think it should be allowed for men and women). I have to admit since I started reading Quran for understanding, I have come upon many amazing and beautiful concepts, but in my head, I think if there is a path of light that we are to follow, shouldn't it be clear and immune to any kind of abuse or exploitation? I think this strange rules could possibly build a foundation for abuse. I know there are dozens of explanations, but honestly, none of the ones I've read has convinced me yet. The only possible explanation I understand would be that these rules are for testing faithful women and men, to see how hard they will try to establish justice among themselves. Or that once you have accepted Quran and Islam (because it is really appealing and attractive on so many levels), you have to obey all the rules without hesitance.
P.S: these are just my thoughts and I don't mean to be offensive to Muslims, so don't get angry please! :)
"could have been more modern"
People: "Wow modern society is messed up, let me turn to religion"
Those Same People: "hmm... needs to be more modern"
 




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#63
"could have been more modern"
People: "Wow modern society is messed up, let me turn to religion"
Those Same People: "hmm... needs to be more modern"
Well, by "modern" I meant that Quran rules were way better than what women of that time could ever imagine when Prophet lived. Not that I want Islam to be more modern. I just don't happen to know the English language well.

"We should be adapting ourselves to what God wants... instead people want to adapt their religion to how they want things."

That's not what I want (to adapt religion), I just want to understand as much as I can.

"If you want a religion where you can do whatever and that you can change to accomodate your tastes, there's already a religion where you can do that. It's called Christianity. You can live in the West, be a Christian, you can be as modern as you want to be. Why not be a Christian? If people want Islam to fit their preconceived notions and conform to their beliefs and standards- why not just be Christian? You can snort cocaine with prostitutes while drinking what is known as Hennesy, engage in whatever you want- go to church the next morning and be back at it after church. Remember- salvation is through faith, not works. So you can do whatever you want, snort cocaine, steal land from Palestinians, do whatever and (supposedly) still be saved because you believe in Jesus (may peace be upon him)"
If you want religion to conform to what you want- Christianity might be the way."

The thing is I've tried reading the Bible and the similarity amongst the Old Testament, New Testament, and Quran has led me to believe there's some reality in there. I just don't know how people fight over religions because to me The Core of all these religions seems to be one single thing. But honestly, among these Abrahamic religions, Islam makes the most sense to me, though there are lots of things I don't understand yet. I just have a hard time believing that the only thing God wants us to do is to obey him and not try to find out why.
 




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#64
The thing is I've tried reading the Bible and the similarity amongst the Old Testament, New Testament, and Quran has led me to believe there's some reality in there. I just don't know how people fight over religions because to me The Core of all these religions seems to be one single thing.
well this is the West


if you want to move in that direction- that's a preview of the package you'll be getting
 




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#65
well this is the West


if you want to move in that direction- that's a preview of the package you'll be getting
I never mentioned anything about Western Lifestyle. Where I live, the culture and life are so different from western life and I have no interest in West. I just have questions and thought the Muslims here could help me a little.
 




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#66
I never mentioned anything about Western Lifestyle. Where I live, the culture and life are so different from western life and I have no interest in West. I just have questions and thought the Muslims here could help me a little.
But what is the religion underpinning the West?

That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background. That is where Christian culture has gone. Islam is much, much superior to Christianity.
 




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#70
But what is the religion underpinning the West?

That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background. That is where Christian culture has gone. Islam is much, much superior to Christianity.
You enjoy being full of shit don't you? You wouldn't know Christian culture if you had been born and raised in Antioch.
 




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#71
That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background. That is where Christian culture has gone. Islam is much, much superior to Christianity.
If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
 




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#73
I seriously recommend the video for anyone who hasn't watched it yet. The video is much more worthwhile than many of the posts here.
 




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#74
If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
Unfortunately, for those genuine Christians, such material is in many ways like trying to buttonhole someone coming out of a restaurant and trying to persuade them they haven't ate a meal.

If you are truly saved, you experience the inner witness of the Holy Spirit, and even today I felt His presence. I was never "argued" into faith, and could never be argued out of it.
 




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#75
If that video is your proof, it is poor, unconvincing proof, at best. Even if she were originally a Christian, which probably cannot be determined, apostates are apostates, and that is as true in Christianity as in Islam.
I wonder if he realizes he is speaking for everyone of his faith, even if inadvertently. Should we dismiss it, or be grateful for his candor?

We are left to ponder such things. :confused:
 




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#77
But what is the religion underpinning the West?

That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background.
I have seen your multiple threads and you have shared some good useful stuff, but this kind of assumptions could appear disrespectful for true Christians, and make them hate Islam without any good reason.
I think we could "dislike" other religions for reasons of our own, but we should not condemn other people's faith or beliefs. Trying to fight over religions doesn't get us anywhere, it will just spread useless hate and frustration.

I know you have your reasons for not liking the West and Christianity but I think we should learn to at least tolerate each other. One of the reasons I was drawn to this board was that I saw people with different ideas and perspectives discuss a single matter in peace at some of the threads. Even if your intentions are good (which I believe it is) and you are trying to make people see the horrible side effects of western culture, It just does not work this way.
Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity. If anything, it is IGNORING God and Christ that has led to this. There are things on Christian beliefs that I can't accept, but I've seen faithful Christians who are living and acting way better than some so-called Muslims. And I don't think the title of "Muslim" or "Christian" matters to God. It's actions that matter.
 




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#78
But what is the religion underpinning the West?

That woman in that video more than likely comes from a Christian background. That is where Christian culture has gone. Islam is much, much superior to Christianity.

Even if she is Christian it has nothing to do with Christianity.
but Christian people have changed a lot.
 




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#79
Even if she is Christian it has nothing to do with Christianity.
Is that so? Of course there are Muslims who are imitating the non-Muslims and so even Muslims are starting to adopt the ways of the disbelievers.

But why is it that "Christian" societies are leading the way when it comes to such decadence?

I mean if I am going to purchase a brand of car- I know the car is supposed to work and supposed to take me from point A to point B. But if I know this particular brand of car is associated with accidents- that there is some higher rate of danger with this car- someone might say it's not how the car works in theory- but in practice this car keeps getting such disastrous results- I think there is something wrong with the car. It's not a safe car to drive. Of course, you can have an accident in any car but this car is less safe. I want the more reliable car.

And "Christians have changed". I wouldn't say so. Previously they were involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Currently in Palestine they are involved in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

So if there is a period where Christians followed their teachings- if we want to find that period- we need to eliminate the past 500 years of colonialism and living nightmares for everyone the "Christians" encounter.

Now we're 500 years in the past and we need to go 500 years before to go beyond the previous 500 years of Crusades.

So now we're 1,000 years in the past. The Catholic Church IS Christianity. Protestantism doesn't exist yet, with its terrifying figure slash spiritual father of Protestant Christianity- Martin "Massacre the Peasants" Luther, pioneer of Idiocracy (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Murderous,_Thieving_Hordes_of_Peasants "Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason." "Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews."
"The law is the Word in which God teaches and tells us what we are to do and not to do, as in the Ten commandments. ... The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments."
"If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?" "We do not become righteous by doing righteous deeds but, having been made righteous, we do righteous deeds." "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not--struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." "The reproduction of mankind is a great marvel and mystery. Had God consulted me in the matter, I should have advised him to continue the generation of the species by fashioning them of clay, in the way Adam was fashioned." "My opinion is that it is better that all the peasants be killed than that the princes and magistrates perish, because the rustics took the sword without divine authority. The only possible consequence of their satanic wickedness would be the diabolic devastation of the kingdom of God. Even if the princes abuse their power, yet they have it of God, and under their rule the kingdom of God at least has a chance to exist. Wherefore no pity, no tolerance should be shown to the peasants, but the fury and wrath of God should be visited upon those men who did not heed warning nor yield when just terms were offered them, but continued with satanic fury to confound everything. ... To justify, pity, or favor them is to deny, blaspheme, and try to pull God from heaven." "I will not oppose a ruler who, even though he does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgment. ... If anyone thinks this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.")

“No good work happens as the result of one’s own wisdom; but everything must happen in a stupor . . . Reason must be left behind for it is the enemy of faith.” “Reason is the devils handmaid and does nothing but blaspheme and dishonor all that God says or does.” “Reason is directly opposed to faith, and one ought to let it be; in believers it should be killed and buried.”





(and that Bible is the one that Protestants use!)



yet Protestants follow this guy! Look at what the Christians on this forum preach and you can still see them reiterating his theology- "The Law of God convinces us by our experience that we are naturally wicked, disobedient, lovers of sin, and enemies of God's commandments." sound like pretty much any of the Christian posters on here. This is who they got their theology from.

It is pretty clear that Protestantism emerged from the mind of a psychopath. And that explains why its theology is so bizarre and unnatural.



very selective in interpreting the Bible


you can't even make this stuff up






The 7 books removed by Martin Luther.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095

okay now obvious the guy who put together Protestantism and what Protestants are still repeating to this day as far as theology- obviously, he was a lunatic-

but let me get off my tangent.

We're 1,000 years in the past. Martin Luther hasn't been born, Protestantism doesn't exist yet.

Catholicism IS Christianity.

It's well known that the Catholic Church has mixed paganism and Christianity.

Furthermore, look at the Catholic Church today

This is terrifying stuff:

So.... if there is a car that mysteriously gets in way more accidents than other cars..... the car can say whatever... I'm just saying that we have to consider the possibility that there might be something innately flawed and/or dangerous about that car (and I understand that Muslims are not perfect but I don't know of any instance of Muslims wiping out an entire race of people
). There is something wrong built into Christianity. We would have to basically ignore the entire history of Christianity to not see that.

And if we read our Quran- we see what it is. We see what is built into Christianity that is fundamentally wrong. It's a question of monotheism or polytheism. Saying "God is three" and pressuring people to worship a man and telling them there is something wrong with them if they would rather simply pray to God- there is something wrong about that.

The Quran explains. To understand the issue- all we have to do is read the word of Allah and Allah explains. The Christians.... 90% (I am guessing here) have never read the Quran. They don't own a copy. They've never read it. They're convinced they're superior. They are utterly convinced they are superior, they believe they have no need to read the Quran. When George Bush and the US government did 9/11 and murdered their own people- people were taught it was Muslims and still believe that to this day. So they equate Islam with terrorism- as the Zionists wanted. So they think they don't need to read the Quran.

So we are very fortunate. We have the Quran and we can study the word of Allah and learn where Christianity goes wrong and exactly why it is wrong to worship a human. The Bible is corrupted. Look at how a psychopath like Martin Luther openly altered the Bible- yet Christians still believe that this altered Bible is the pure, uncorrupted word of God!

We have to hold fast to the rope of Allah and we have to maintain our faith in Allah and our faith in Islam which is perfect and which is the innate religion. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not.

We can read the Quran and understand where the Christians went wrong. We can read the Quran and understand why Jesus (may peace be upon him) was a Muslim and why truly following his message would entail following Islam. The Christians, generally, refuse to read the Quran and so they deprive themselves of the opportunity to truly understand Christianity and why it is false- and then to follow the straight path!

This is from a former Christian pastor:


and I am not saying these things to be hurtful to Christians. I have much respect for real Christians who are sincere and who are serious.

However, as Aristotle pointed out (this is not the actual quote but this a paraphrase- though, I seemingly never tire of quoting this)



Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

-Surah Al-Isra [17:9]