Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#1
Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

Religions tout themselves as being the final word in moral issues, even though secular law has rejected as too barbaric most of those laws. Not that they were original to Christianity as many of the older traditions had variants of the same laws.

To me, a moral god would cure and never kill. That is the position Jesus took towards the non-believers.

Jesus said to love all people including your enemies and if Jesus is Yahweh then he too must love all and save all just as Jesus would.

Jesus would say that God killing instead of curing is evil.

Jesus would say that God curing instead of killing is good.

If god cures instead of killing then there is no hell as a good god or Jesus would have no use for purposeless torture and death.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
4,848
Likes
2,919
#2
You continually prove over and over that you are no friend to Christianity and continually prove that you don’t have any arguments when a Christian comes to debate you. Your only debate ‘technique’ is insults and personal attacks. All these threads are just to provoke Christians so you can insult us...but it must be a game you like to play since you are still here..and according to @JoChris all over other Christian sites doing the same thing. I can’t imagine living with such a angry, hateful, bitter soul as yours must be. And yet...I saw you offer comfort to a man..a man who claimed to be a Christian.. you offered him comfort when his wife died. I don’t know why you refuse to own up to that...it was your standard regards DL at the bottom.
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
771
Likes
833
#3
Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?

Religions tout themselves as being the final word in moral issues, even though secular law has rejected as too barbaric most of those laws. Not that they were original to Christianity as many of the older traditions had variants of the same laws.

To me, a moral god would cure and never kill. That is the position Jesus took towards the non-believers.

Jesus said to love all people including your enemies and if Jesus is Yahweh then he too must love all and save all just as Jesus would.

Jesus would say that God killing instead of curing is evil.

Jesus would say that God curing instead of killing is good.

If god cures instead of killing then there is no hell as a good god or Jesus would have no use for purposeless torture and death.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
Hi DL, Here is how I understand it and what I believe. Angels were created before man. God wanted fellowship with His creation by free will from His creation. Angels had a glorified body already....But 1/3 of the angels rebelled along with Satan, who was (at that time) the highest angel. Sin is the rebellion against God's order of things, whether moral or destructive. How would you create something to know what sin does against God's Holy creation and it's governing laws for a perfect world?
You would have to make a corruptible body (one that could experience the consequences of sin). A temporary body that would suffer it disobedience. And give man a way to be redeemed (By Christ) and then receive an incorruptible body. So, He sowed a body he did not intend for eternal life, but, out of that body that dieth, comes an eternal incorruptible body and a new heaven and earth at the end. (1 Corinthians chapter 15:35-58) (Rev. 21:1) God, in Hebrews says, He made man a little lower than the angels (for a little while) to bring them up above the angels with Christ (Heb. 2:5-15)
 





Last edited:
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
907
Likes
1,401
#4
Hi DL, Here is how I understand it and what I believe. Angels were created before man. God wanted fellowship with His creation by free will from His creation. Angels had a glorified body already....But 1/3 of the angels rebelled along with Satan, who was (at that time) the highest angel. Sin is the rebellion against God's order of things, whether moral or destructive. How would you create something to know what sin does against God's Holy creation and it's governing laws for a perfect world?
You would have to make a corruptible body (one that could experience the consequences of sin). A temporary body that would suffer it disobedience. And give man a way to be redeemed (By Christ) and then receive an incorruptible body. So, He sowed a body he did not intend for eternal life, but, out of that body that dieth, comes an eternal incorruptible body and a new heaven and earth at the end. (1 Corinthians chapter 15:35-58) (Rev. 21:1) God, in Hebrews says, He made man a little lower than the angels (for a little while) to bring them up above the angels with Christ (Heb. 2:5-15)
ohhh I think I might know the answer to this one: You're God, and since you have no limitations you already know ahead of time exactly which angels and humans will freely choose full companionship with their inner divinity instead of choosing rebellion even if they find themselves within said corruptible bodies, so you don't even bother with creating the others in the first place because it would be pointless to create something that will inevitably end up suffering for eternity when there are so many other less destructive ways to effectively demonstrate your lesson??

OR.. hear me out, the entire explanation for life is not quite so simple, but the inclination to adhere to modern religious interpretations and dogma arose regardless because of the background social conditioning that we are subjected to since birth which the majority are not aware of because taking things for granted is so much easier and people are generally lazy and afraid?
 





Last edited:
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
771
Likes
833
#5
ohhh I think I might know the answer to this one: You're God, and since you have no limitations you already know ahead of time exactly which angels and humans will freely choose full companionship with their inner divinity instead of choosing rebellion even if they find themselves within said corruptible bodies, so you don't even bother with creating them in the first place because it would be pointless to create something that will inevitably end up suffering for eternity when there are so many other less destructive ways to effectively demonstrate your lesson??

OR.. hear me out, the entire explanation for life is not quite so simple, but the inclination to adhere to modern religious interpretations and dogma arose regardless because of the background social conditioning that we are subjected to since birth which the majority are not aware of because taking things for granted is so much easier and people are generally lazy and afraid?
Then walk your own path of logic...it is yours, not mine.
 





Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
2,987
Likes
3,936
#6
Proof of god is a moral question. Do you see the morals shown for god as good or evil?
I suppose it depends on which religion and which god we are talking about.

For discussion sake we will go with God of the big three, Yahweh/Jehovah/God/Father/Allah whatever.

As a whole you could not justly say that this being is good, or moral. No the atrocities and evil laws handed down by him would mark him as the worst of pariahs if he were a person.

Of course if you look at God(s) as representations of ALL of human nature ( as say properly understanding the Greco-Roman myths ) then yes at times you can sometimes see the more positive ones in this creature, all though it is completely overshadowed by the horror it has wrought.

To accept Yahweh as a literal supreme God is to accept immorality and to accept that God is horribly evil.

So the situation is : Either 1)God is real and we’re fucked, The Gnostics are (literally) right about the Demiurge or 2) God does not exist ( at least not theistically) and the Gnostics are right about the demiurge allegorically ( i.e the belief in him still controls society )
 





Wigi

Established
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
230
Likes
357
#8
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#9
You continually prove over and over that you are no friend to Christianity and continually prove that you don’t have any arguments when a Christian comes to debate you. Your only debate ‘technique’ is insults and personal attacks. All these threads are just to provoke Christians so you can insult us...but it must be a game you like to play since you are still here..and according to @JoChris all over other Christian sites doing the same thing. I can’t imagine living with such a angry, hateful, bitter soul as yours must be. And yet...I saw you offer comfort to a man..a man who claimed to be a Christian.. you offered him comfort when his wife died. I don’t know why you refuse to own up to that...it was your standard regards DL at the bottom.
Your ilk attack gays and women all the time and refuse them equality.

You do not like it when you get some of your own abuse back.

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#10
Hi DL, Here is how I understand it and what I believe. Angels were created before man. God wanted fellowship with His creation by free will from His creation. Angels had a glorified body already....But 1/3 of the angels rebelled along with Satan, who was (at that time) the highest angel. Sin is the rebellion against God's order of things, whether moral or destructive. How would you create something to know what sin does against God's Holy creation and it's governing laws for a perfect world?
You would have to make a corruptible body (one that could experience the consequences of sin). A temporary body that would suffer it disobedience. And give man a way to be redeemed (By Christ) and then receive an incorruptible body. So, He sowed a body he did not intend for eternal life, but, out of that body that dieth, comes an eternal incorruptible body and a new heaven and earth at the end. (1 Corinthians chapter 15:35-58) (Rev. 21:1) God, in Hebrews says, He made man a little lower than the angels (for a little while) to bring them up above the angels with Christ (Heb. 2:5-15)
I am here to talk morality, not your fantasy.

Why are you running away from a moral discussion?

I think I know.

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#11
I suppose it depends on which religion and which god we are talking about.

For discussion sake we will go with God of the big three, Yahweh/Jehovah/God/Father/Allah whatever.

As a whole you could not justly say that this being is good, or moral. No the atrocities and evil laws handed down by him would mark him as the worst of pariahs if he were a person.

Of course if you look at God(s) as representations of ALL of human nature ( as say properly understanding the Greco-Roman myths ) then yes at times you can sometimes see the more positive ones in this creature, all though it is completely overshadowed by the horror it has wrought.

To accept Yahweh as a literal supreme God is to accept immorality and to accept that God is horribly evil.

So the situation is : Either 1)God is real and we’re fucked, The Gnostics are (literally) right about the Demiurge or 2) God does not exist ( at least not theistically) and the Gnostics are right about the demiurge allegorically ( i.e the belief in him still controls society )
U C 20/20.

The Gnostic were right.

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#13
Nobody needs to fear judgment when you have clean hands.
Your scriptures say we are all dirty.

How could you cure anything without destroying the root of evil?
Me?
We were talking god and is he not all powerful?

As to evil, I have no problem explaining it.
You are not ready for the answer while thinking in your supernaturalstupid way.

Evil and sin are good. That is why Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

That is why god is said in scriptures to have created evil for his pleasure.

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
4,848
Likes
2,919
#14
Your ilk attack gays and women all the time and refuse them equality.

You do not like it when you get some of your own abuse back.

Regards
DL
Do we? I am a woman..do I attack myself then? I don’t think it’s a refusal of equality, we have different roles then men and I’m ok with that. Why does it bother you so much? Are you a woman?

I don’t attack anyone and I don’t attack homosexuals, however I will tell them the Good News. Are you also homosexual?
 





Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
1,714
Likes
2,538
#15
I suppose it depends on which religion and which god we are talking about.

For discussion sake we will go with God of the big three, Yahweh/Jehovah/God/Father/Allah whatever.

As a whole you could not justly say that this being is good, or moral. No the atrocities and evil laws handed down by him would mark him as the worst of pariahs if he were a person.

Of course if you look at God(s) as representations of ALL of human nature ( as say properly understanding the Greco-Roman myths ) then yes at times you can sometimes see the more positive ones in this creature, all though it is completely overshadowed by the horror it has wrought.

To accept Yahweh as a literal supreme God is to accept immorality and to accept that God is horribly evil.

So the situation is : Either 1)God is real and we’re fucked, The Gnostics are (literally) right about the Demiurge or 2) God does not exist ( at least not theistically) and the Gnostics are right about the demiurge allegorically ( i.e the belief in him still controls society )
OR 3)Yaheweh really does exist, but the crazy notion that every word in the Bible was spoken by God is not true. Just maybe even though all of the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they are still human and sometimes credited ideas and rules/laws to God that were really not his. To this day we find throughout history people doing things in the name of Yahweh that obviously were not.

According to the Bible Moses and Jesus were the only two prophets in the Bible who directly spoke the words of God. If that is the case it leaves plenty of room for human ideas to be imposed over what God actually spoke.
 





Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,313
Likes
1,124
#16
Do we? I am a woman..do I attack myself then? I don’t think it’s a refusal of equality, we have different roles then men and I’m ok with that. Why does it bother you so much? Are you a woman?

I don’t attack anyone and I don’t attack homosexuals, however I will tell them the Good News. Are you also homosexual?
Indeed, and your role is ----- he shall rule over you, --- because you are a second class citizen.

Let me adlib.
Now do as your religion bids you do. Shut up, sit down, and do not ever try to teach a man because you do not have the intelligence. You are here to do as men tell you to do. Slave.

Regards
DL
 





Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
4,848
Likes
2,919
#17
Indeed, and your role is ----- he shall rule over you, --- because you are a second class citizen.

Let me adlib.
Now do as your religion bids you do. Shut up, sit down, and do not ever try to teach a man because you do not have the intelligence. You are here to do as men tell you to do. Slave.

Regards
DL
So you are a man? Are you a homosexual? Is that why teaching people about sin...even homosexual sin bothers you? Or maybe you’re a trans? You are a man now think you’re a woman? That’s why the woman thing bothers you?
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
3,592
Likes
6,992
#18
So you are a man? Are you a homosexual? Is that why teaching people about sin...even homosexual sin bothers you? Or maybe you’re a trans? You are a man now think you’re a woman? That’s why the woman thing bothers you?
Or maybe he just thinks you an idiot? It seems to be common.

People don’t need to be addicts to defend addicts. Gay to defend gays. Black to defend blacks. Women to defend women etc.

It’s just called being a decent human being.
 





Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
4,848
Likes
2,919
#19
Or maybe he just thinks you an idiot? It seems to be common.

People don’t need to be addicts to defend addicts. Gay to defend gays. Black to defend blacks. Women to defend women etc.

It’s just called being a decent human being.
I’m just trying to find out why he’s/she’s so focused on those two things. I think they are good queestions to ask in trying to understand his/her hateful pov..
 





Wigi

Established
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
230
Likes
357
#20
Your scriptures say we are all dirty
Then we simply need someone who's willing to wash us. Jesus.


We were talking god and is he not all powerful?
If you think that we don't need to destroy the root of evil before a cure, it means that you're fine with evil and it should be allowed to exist ?


Sin comes from mankind and only affects mankind.
If you think evil is good, why call it evil?

That is why god is said in scriptures to have created evil for his pleasure
Or you make things up because you have no clue. Which is it?

You said

you are a second class citizen
It's just your opinion that reveals the real you.
I noticed that anti-theists are often misogynistic.
I don't know if it's a frustration caused by feminism but yeah.
 





Last edited: