Hold on, that's actually the first time that I read a sufi muslim approach.
I have a lot to digest but something bugs me right now and it's how do you go from this :
To this :
I mean the Bible's Triune God literally embodies that and in fact John 1 literally says the Word of God was with God and the Word was God. I believe muslims are mistaken about Jesus and everything they know about christians is mostly misconception, partly because of Christian's inability to perfectly describe God's attributes with mere words .
Simple put the Holy Spirit reveals it to you after you repent with a genuine conversion (not that catholic toddler baptism) and then you're no longer in the dark, it becomes clearer and you see. It is a truth revealed at a spiritual level it's not really something you grasp with accumulated knowledge I can't word it any better.
I really appreciate the genuine reply man.
The answer is that the Son/Logos/Image/Universal consciusness represents the Immanence of God.
Within the Logos, is every single thing, the entire creation, all things..
call it the multiverse, call it the universe itself, call it whatever you want..
understanding the subtle difference between the TRancendent nature of God and the Immanence expressed through the Logos on the primary level and then the post-causal at the secondary level is a key point to understanding monothiesm.
Hence the statement
The Word WAS WITH GOD
the Word IS GOD
the former refers to the Trancendent aspect of God via the left brain approach, logic..
the latter refers to the Immanent aspect of God via the right brain aproach, the mystical side.
the latter is what the jewish people were lacking. they had the theology of monothiesm, they had the book and the law, what they lacked was the personal inner connection to God via His immanence.
it's like if a muslim believes in Allah as an idea...basically out of sight out of mind, vs someone who has a very present perception of God that is personal. Aperson of that kind can 'see God in all things' (ie the single eye). Not all the ti me but in specific moments. in islam, this one is called Ihsan and is the 'highest level of faith'. That's because the left side is passive in it's relationship with God's Trancendence eg it deals with the divine decree. The right side is active and deals with our freewill and our journey upwards back to the Logos itself, akin to the drop merging back with the primordial water.
In islam there is a balance between the 2 that's necessary
https://twitter.com/DienBenA
Imam Malik (r) said, “Whoever studies jurisprudence (fiqh) and didn’t study tasawwuf will be corrupted; and whoever studied tasawwuf and didn’t study jurisprudence will become a heretic; and whoever combined both will be reach the Truth.” the scholar’Ali al-Adawi , vol 2
this left/right brain perspective is the same in hinduism and the same in kabballah, and taoist philosophy eg yin yang.
en.wikipedia.org
According to Christian theology, the transcendent God, who cannot be approached or seen in essence or being, becomes immanent primarily in the God-man Jesus the Christ, who is the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity. In Byzantine Rite theology the immanence of God is expressed as the hypostases or energies of God, who in his essence is incomprehensible and transcendent. In Catholic theology, Christ and the Holy Spirit immanently reveal themselves; God the Father only reveals himself immanently vicariously through the Son and Spirit, and the divine nature, the Godhead is wholly transcendent and unable to be comprehended.
this is consistent with my beliefs.
in fact, the underlying truth is perfectly expressed in islam, in a different way
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem
this statement is uttered by muslims all the time, read up on it, muslims say these words with everything (that is, everything positive, they wouldnt say it when sat on the toilet, this is also to an extent, an extention of the 'single eye' approach eg there are times we're not really trying to think of God, when sinning or doing something private.
so muslims regularly utter this statement..
it means
In the name of Allah
the All-Merciful
the Bestower of Mercy
that is, the second one is a representation of God's Immanence on the eternal level..
the third one is a representation on the microcosmic/post causal state eg where the primary quality of Mercy is expressed (as in creation).
i think of it where Zero/0 represents ifinity...
and causation/creation represents 1 and from it, all numbers, expressed.
0 contains everything in it and is absolutely perfect. Why is it necessary for causation? do the numbers need to be expressed in order to grasp the concept of infinity?
that there is the mystery of creation
i love to read material on this from diff pov's. Eg the tao te ching is one of my fav ones
The Tao is called the Great Mother: empty yet inexhaustible, it gives birth to infinite worlds. It is always present within you. You can use it any way you want.
The Tao is infinite, eternal. Why is it eternal? It was never born; thus it can never die. Why is it infinite? It has no desires for itself; thus it is present for all being
Every being in the universe is an expression of the Tao. It springs into existence, unconscious, perfect, free, takes on a physical body, lets circumstances complete it. That is why every being spontaneously honors the Tao. The Tao gives birth to all beings, nourishes them, maintains them, cares for them, comforts them, protects them, takes them back to itself, creating without possessing, acting without expecting, guiding without interfering. That is why love of the Tao is in the very nature of things.
now withstanding the fact that everyone has their own different interpretation, the tao is not different to the Logos/vishnu to me.
it also explains that there are 2 aspects of the Tao, the unknowable and the known.
now about the 'personal connection with Jesus via the holy spirit'.
nice idea...say i accept the above christian view of the Son and holy spirit as representations of the Immanence of God and dont confuse them for 'the Trancendent Father' knowing that the Son and holy spirit on their own, are nothing (Jesus said so)...
i still have to have this connection to Jesus through a church system. The so called 'branches'.
how am i connecting with a branch when i cant find it?
besides, seeking 'the holy spirit' is misleading because even with the right intent, there is no preventing our own darker thoughts and entities from leading us astray.
i believe the original christians had this connection but by the time islam came, that christian era was finished.
Just like the israelites were once under God's grace, living in faith..once they lost that in egypt, then Moses came with the law.
so i dont think we should be banking on this personal connection when it isnt there.
Even Jesus said he will reject many.
in Genesis 1, it is kind of mixed up and confusing, but it is detailing the metaphysical descent of consciousness.
it says 'in the beginning God created the heavens and earth' but what follows is more of an explanation of that process, eg it doesnt begin where 'the earth and heaven already exist now and everythin gelse camelater'.
The Spirit of God hovered over the WATERS
that's the same idea, the waters being the primordial water, once again the universal consciousness. in egyptian mythology and in hinduism this is how it is referred to as aswell, (look up Nu/in egyptian mythology).#
the holy spirit proceeded from the Son.
the spirit of God/the holy spirit represents the intelligence behind causation, the Holy Spirit...'the first and the last' (which connects with the left/right down/up i was talking about).
in egyptian mythology and in hinduism, this 'stepping out of the waters' was only symbolically described as a boat carrying 7 figures...
Nu along with 7 spirits..
that represents the '7 holy spirits'.
in hinduism it is the 7 rishis
in zoroastrianism, they are the 7 amesha spenta
the same idea does exist in some sufi circles..and i think it is fascinating that muslims wound up making such statements of their own accord centuries ago...when it isnt directly mentioned in the Quran or hadith.
i would read such things and wonder 'how did they arrive at this?' and then find that christianity tends to confirm it in a different manner.
itisnt a mere coincidence...the holy spirit does represent the causal process, the first emerging from the macrocosm.
the holy spirit also links the microcosms back to the macrocosm.
this again is a sufi belief where the holy spirit is called 'the sirr ul asrar' (the secret of secrets which is a sufi book). Basically the holy spirt represents Wisdom itself which is the foundation of creation. in islam, this 'wisdom' is called the 'nur-e-Mohammad' (the light of Mohammad or The Mohammedan reality), 'the first thing Allah created was My light (wisdom) from His light'.
of course this also links to john 16 because the Quran is from the holy spirit..and Mohammad fulfilled that part 'bringing all the truth, telling you what is to come, condemning theworld of it's sin'. islam is the only religion that is actively fighting the nwo elite.
just as the holy spirit connects the microcosms back to the macrocosm, you can see in Mohammad how he was a microcosmic expression of Jesus eg in mecca he was the 'suffering servant/passive' and then he went to madina to become the 'davidic king'. i do believe it's why many muslims mak e the mistake of taking prophecies about Jesus and saying 'it is Mohammad', it just represents the smaller scale of what Jesus is doing. they are like the tree and the fruit, which belong together. there's a lot more in this idea.
a fascinating christian text written by a christian mystic called Madam Guyon is about her journey, which she describes the soul as a 'river' making it's way back to the ocean. she explains the same 'yin/yang' with 3 different approaches, the passive, active and middle. she practiced quietism which was the passive path, as opposed to the catholic church which pushed the active right side path linking it to Jesus.
Her path, of complete submission ironically is the path Jesus practiced on his first stay eg the suffering servant.
She gave up the 'self' in submittion to God's will. in doing so, she experienced a spiritual death of the ego..she struggled heavily.
it was more like the drop/river evaporating and returning as rain to the ocean...rain representing Mercy.
it was a fascinating book if you're interested
Spiritual Torrents eBook : Guyon, Jeanne Marie Bouvier de la Motte, 1648-1717: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store
www.amazon.co.uk
the idea isd the same in taoist philosophy where yin leads to yang and vice versa..
dont get me wrong, the active path, in christianity, is upwards, but it isnt individual..is a collective/unity based path..afterall it leads to unity of consciousness.
the sufi tariqah's are the same in theory.
my only conclusion based on everything ive seen, is that..despite the best intentions..i doubt Jesus really does give a fk tbh. no offense. if he is happy to torch a load of 'believing' christians to death because 'i never knew you' (ie he won't have gnosis of them, they were not part of the 'true vine) it means they spent their life in vain believing to have a connection to Jesus through the baptism, yet having nothing.
the fact that sin is so prevalent in the world..when christianity preaches conquest, the death of the serpent etc..makes no sense.
maybe im wrong and the eastern orthodox church, or some small few within it, are aligned with the truth? but otherwise i feel most arent..in fact many are alredy worshipping iblees in private. there are many sufis like that who are running sufi orders but have already made deals with iblees and just fk it up (like the pharisees).
personally i prefer just to do my own thing...and ultimately, i believe we will all be judged fairly..that the way the scripture talks about God being cruel and throwing humans to hell, is not really true and it was just symbolic language.
for example
in the Quran, paradise is described as beautiful gardens with flowing streams of water, with trees and fruit..
this is symbolic language..
the flowing stream of water represents the lifeforce/prana/chi energy within us that is an extention of the Divine breath (which btw Jesus also represents in islam, the second heaven, the etheric plane, which links to birth/fertility/the baptism etc...jesus literally was the fountain of life). the stream having free flowing water is about us gaining control over our lifeforce...eg like having blocked chakras/energy centers, to the extent of our carnal attachments.
the garden represents the heart and our intentions, the seeds..
seeds of faith, trees of faith, fruit of faith etc. it's not hard to grasp.
hell to me just represents all our our earthly/carnal attachments.
btw i have covid right now, the MODI variant. im pakistani and know that if it came from pak, the media would trash pakistan like they do. so im calling it the modi variant.
mate, im feeling absolutely shit rn. body aches, headache, fever, dizzy etc. the whole family has it, all the kids.
i dont see why purification in the 'fire' should be any worse than how im feeling rn.
yes, religion has it's 'mythos' but ironically, i feel like a true insaan/human, must be brave enough to challenge God on cruelty to have that respect..but it is not really about 'God' it is about defeating our own inner voice that creates our own internal threats.
religion is that inner voice expressed on the collective scale. As soon as humans began to meditate on the idea of God and attained gnosis in their own limited understanding of reality (eg the geocentric world view, the small universe) that that voice came out as 'God'.
you cant tell me Yahweh the jealous God who plays hide and seek with adam and even..regrets making humans...is the correct version. religion is about the human experience and our evolution towards enlightenment..
i believe the scriptures are not to be taken at face value all the time and we should be open minded.
That is why in the Quran, Allah always says
THE SCRIPTURE AND THE HIKMAH/WISDOM (which again is the link to the holy spirit anyway).
the book, Secret of Secrets
Buy The Secret of Secrets (Golden Palm Series) 2nd Impression ed. by al-Jilani, 'Abd al-Qadir, Bayrak, Tosun (ISBN: 9780946621293) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
www.amazon.co.uk
it was basically telling us that we all have this connection to the Ruh al quddus(the holy spirit) through the sirr ul asrar within us.
in Rev 2 we are told that the holy spirit gifts 'the morning star' (as in this wisdom). the morning star is not lucifer, in isaiah it was only used in jest/mockery towards the so called wise king of babylon. the morning star is the inner guidance/wisdom granted by the holy spirit.
now earlier i said 'we dont have this connection' and that's because whilst the sirr ul asrar is a nice idea in islam, the reality is there are many many levels below that we cant even surpass...least of all the astral plane which is our carnal nature. come on man...lust alone is hard to control, let's be real. people seek the holy spirit but they still remain sex addicts. the only way pple ventually overcome addictions is when their senses are so weakened they no longer have the same level of sensitivity. they then go through a process of depression too.
christianity/the holy spirit is no quick fix. ive often researched christian forums for ppls experiences, they are no different to anyone, suffering from sin.
the only diff with muslims is that they know they're sinful, but then they seek forgiveness from God each day and acknowledge their sin.
that inner garden/paradise...even when the river is rotten and the soil is full of weeds and serpents and whatever else, the light still remains in a person, that there is the 'mustard seed worth of faith' that will move mountains. i suppose, all that comes with it, the process of torment, hell fire or suffering in the world, barzakh etc, in the end that light and the underlying faith cannot die. so i have confidence in that more than i do myself or 'the holy spirit' per se.
check these verses in the Quran
1. By the heaven and the Morning Star |
2. - Ah, what will tell thee what the Morning Star is! |
3. - The piercing Star! |
4. No human soul but hath a guardian over it. |
5. So let man consider from what he is created. |
6. He is created from a gushing fluid |
7. That issued from between the loins and ribs. |
8. Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life) |
9. On the day when hidden thoughts shall be searched out. |
10. Then will he have no might nor any helper. |
11. By the heaven which giveth the returning rain, |
12. And the earth which splitteth (with the growth of trees and plants) |
13. Lo! this (Qur'an) is a conclusive word, |
14. It is no pleasantry. |
the 'gushing fluid' whilst referring to semen, on the surface, is also symbolising the metaphysical descent and that we are literally creating from the bottom (int he physical world) and then our journey is back up..
but it is also a reference to the emergence of the Spirit, the drop from the primordial water.
the holy spirit 'the first and the last'
'hidden thoughts shall be searched out'
1 Love uprightness you who are rulers on earth, be properly disposed towards the Lord and seek him in simplicity of heart; 2 for he will be found by those who do not put him to the test, revealing himself to those who do not mistrust him. 3 Perverse thoughts, however, separate people from God...
www.catholic.org
Perverse thoughts, however, separate people from God, and power, when put to the test, confounds the stupid.
4 Wisdom will never enter the soul of a wrong-doer, nor dwell in a body enslaved to sin;
5 for the holy spirit of instruction flees deceitfulness, recoils from unintelligent thoughts, is thwarted by the onset of vice.
6 Wisdom is a spirit friendly to humanity, though she will not let a blasphemer's words go unpunished; since God observes the very soul and accurately surveys the heart, listening to every word.
By the heaven which giveth the returning rain,
this actually connects back with what Madam Guyone spoke of..eg the journey back to the primordial water, suppose we experience hell fire, it is a process of annahilation (sufis like ibn arabi had this view esp, they viewed hell as a process of purification, not necesserily 'good' but that ultimately everyone would return to back 'home'
in this case the rain represents the evaporation of the water...in te heart...purification and returning back home.
'the earth which splitteth' eg the tilling of the soil (the heart) represents a difficult process when you submit to God eg the dark things buried in your heart that you wanted to cover up and heal, wind up veing forced onto the surface, bringing about all manner of torment. this is indirectly also what madam guyon was referring to. yet she was a saint in my eyes...imagine the torment if a sinner like me?
wouldnt it just be easy for me to say 'yeh, Jesus, im connected with Jesus so it's all good'
no, the only way that's possible is if the heart absolutely perfectly reflects Jesus, as a mirror. that means total devotion, forgetting the entire world for Jesus'
i wont kid myself, i dont know Jesus, i know him as a theory, a concept, but i doubt a single soul in the world today knows the real Jesus. the 'true vine' was closed permanently when islam came, it's why islam had to come..because trinitarianism killed it.
just as paul argued that the circumcision was dead on account of peoples sins...then the 'grace and faith' that the cross represented, is also a dead symbol.
to me that path is closed. i dont take it at face value, eg if Jesus was literally saving the whole world, where are there almost 2b muslims, 1b hindus, 1.3b athiestic buddhist/taoist types etc?