Program to help you write better.

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#1
A month ago I downloaded this program called Grammarly. It's like an all in one tool that's built right into your internet browser. So anywhere you type you have spelling and grammar check functionality. And it is hands down one of the top 10 programs I've ever downloaded.

Personally speaking, I wanted to know how bad my grammar really was. And my grammar wasn't as bad as I thought. It's not that people are judgemental or really care. It's just about *knowing*. You are the student, and Grammarly is the teacher. I should say they aren't paying me for this plug. But they should be.

I think we should give every kid in America this program. Call me crazy but, I'm a huge proponent of robot teachers. All my teachers were like Robots anyway. I'm not saying they were soulless monsters or anything. It's just that 1 teacher can't possibly give every student enough attention. Therefore every kid should just get their very own Robot teacher.

Education in America solved?
 





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#3
A month ago I downloaded this program called Grammarly. It's like an all in one tool that's built right into your internet browser. So anywhere you type you have spelling and grammar check functionality. And it is hands down one of the top 10 programs I've ever downloaded.

Personally speaking, I wanted to know how bad my grammar really was. And my grammar wasn't as bad as I thought. It's not that people are judgemental or really care. It's just about *knowing*. You are the student, and Grammarly is the teacher. I should say they aren't paying me for this plug. But they should be.

I think we should give every kid in America this program. Call me crazy but, I'm a huge proponent of robot teachers. All my teachers were like Robots anyway. I'm not saying they were soulless monsters or anything. It's just that 1 teacher can't possibly give every student enough attention. Therefore every kid should just get their very own Robot teacher.

Education in America solved?

i had a fantastic english teacher many years ago in seventh grade. this was his last year prior to retirement, and i luckily found myself in his class. i recall that on the first day, a older former student came in whom he briefly introduced as a student from his first class of teaching. he sat in the back and listened to the lecture. even as a kid, i knew that if a former student had a desire to come back and visit that this teacher must be very good. he was.
the man, though years of teaching, knew exactly how to get us to understand the trickier things and how to keep our attention. this wisdom and experience is can never be replicated through a computer program. i looked forward to that class each day to learn.
your program is probably beneficial, but it can never replace a real connection between teacher and student. there are plenty of bad human teachers out there, but the good ones really shine. i still have my notes from that class.
 





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#4
i had a fantastic english teacher many years ago in seventh grade. this was his last year prior to retirement, and i luckily found myself in his class. i recall that on the first day, a older former student came in whom he briefly introduced as a student from his first class of teaching. he sat in the back and listened to the lecture. even as a kid, i knew that if a former student had a desire to come back and visit that this teacher must be very good. he was.
the man, though years of teaching, knew exactly how to get us to understand the trickier things and how to keep our attention. this wisdom and experience is can never be replicated through a computer program. i looked forward to that class each day to learn.
your program is probably beneficial, but it can never replace a real connection between teacher and student. there are plenty of bad human teachers out there, but the good ones really shine. i still have my notes from that class.
Well, you said it all right there. You were lucky to have such a meaningful experience. And not to put you on the spot or anything. But this is what your grammar looks like to me....

grammer.jpg

There are 10 errors in your grammar here. Of course, most of it is you not capitalizing I. For me this comes down to a question of information retention. I believe you had an amazing teacher, but you still couldn't remember that I should always be capitalized.

So it's like I was saying before. There are clear limitations to what 1 teacher can do. Add in the fact that a lot of teachers are getting shit on by the system. It just seems pretty obvious we can do so much better.
 





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#5
Well, you said it all right there. You were lucky to have such a meaningful experience. And not to put you on the spot or anything. But this is what your grammar looks like to me....

View attachment 14491

There are 10 errors in your grammar here. Of course, most of it is you not capitalizing I. For me this comes down to a question of information retention. I believe you had an amazing teacher, but you still couldn't remember that I should always be capitalized.

So it's like I was saying before. There are clear limitations to what 1 teacher can do. Add in the fact that a lot of teachers are getting shit on by the system. It just seems pretty obvious we can do so much better.
In his defense, I believe Poly said he wasn't going to bother capitalizing. That was in an early post from him. I can't remember which thread or as to the why.
 





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#6
In his defense, I believe Poly said he wasn't going to bother capitalizing. That was in an early post from him. I can't remember which thread or as to the why.
I never noticed that.

I would be interested to hear his reasoning, and I'm sure his old English teacher would too. Ultimately it's kind of irrelevant though. Having the education and choosing not to use it, is just as bad as not having the education.

That's the real heart of the matter anyway. Trying to make education important again. Like why can't we make it cool to be smart?
 





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#7
Having the education and choosing not to use it, is just as bad as not having the education.
I would guess his writing is better in more formal cases. This is just a forum after all.
That's the real heart of the matter anyway. Trying to make education important again. Like why can't we make it cool to be smart?
Can't speak for anyone else, but my public fooling was a joke. I was in college before I learned a lot was two words. To this day, I still don't know affect/effect. I'll find another way to say it.
 





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#8
There are certain aspects of writing when it is beneficial to have a teacher. Formating is a good example. A good teacher is going to help explain the difference between a research question and a thesis statement when you are learning to format a research paper better than a computer. However, there are other times when an automated program like Grammarly is beneficial. For example, an automated grammar checker can identify repetitive words, passive voice, and catch you when you try to finish a sentence with a preposition. Using this can help retrain your brain to write better, but it still takes work. You actually have to invest time rewriting whole sentences to correct the error. Over time, this will train your brain to avoid errors like this, and your writing speed will improve.

A program like this accommodates certain formats better than others as well. It works well with discussions like this, email, research papers, or other kinds of formal writing. It doesn't do well with creative writing. It won't do well if you are trying to write dialogue or poetry where you have to bend the rules a little bit to create a character with a habit of saying "okay" or some other filler word over and over; or a poem that doesn't use complete sentences. However, having a strong foundation is going to help in creative writing. So a grammar checker is like training wheels and creative writing would kind of be like removing the training wheels.
 





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#9
I would guess his writing is better in more formal cases. This is just a forum after all.
I mostly agree with that. This isn't a forum about general topics though. Like a lot of this content is pretty advanced, and meant to be taken seriously. If you were to try to tell me about the next financial crisis but can't bother to capitalize it tells me something.

Can't speak for anyone else, but my public fooling was a joke. I was in college before I learned a lot was two words. To this day, I still don't know affect/effect. I'll find another way to say it.
Right. I don't think it's a joke because the teachers are bad though. I want to make that point clear.

I remember most of my teachers. I think they did a fine job. They are just always trying to run uphill. Popular culture is completely neurotic. Most of what we see in the news and on the internet are logical fallacies. We need to completely reposition our priorities.
 





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#10
There are certain aspects of writing when it is beneficial to have a teacher. Formating is a good example. A good teacher is going to help explain the difference between a research question and a thesis statement when you are learning to format a research paper better than a computer. However, there are other times when an automated program like Grammarly is beneficial. For example, an automated grammar checker can identify repetitive words, passive voice, and catch you when you try to finish a sentence with a preposition. Using this can help retrain your brain to write better, but it still takes work. You actually have to invest time rewriting whole sentences to correct the error. Over time, this will train your brain to avoid errors like this, and your writing speed will improve.

A program like this accommodates certain formats better than others as well. It works well with discussions like this, email, research papers, or other kinds of formal writing. It doesn't do well with creative writing. It won't do well if you are trying to write dialogue or poetry where you have to bend the rules a little bit to create a character with a habit of saying "okay" or some other filler word over and over; or a poem that doesn't use complete sentences. However, having a strong foundation is going to help in creative writing. So a grammar checker is like training wheels and creative writing would kind of be like removing the training wheels.
I agree with the parts about how the Grammarly program is amazing.

I disagree with where you said it won't do well. Because that's inaccurate. It will not add or remove any creative writing abilities. It is creative writing neutral. But I haven't actually tested that out. I don't do creative writing, I try to lay out the facts and present a good argument. And it doesn't help me find logical fallacies either.

And Training wheels? Really? That is a faulty analogy and I'm obligated to call out the fallacy. It is not some failsafe to protect us from falling down. This program speeds up and streamlines the learning process. So again, it's like having a robot teacher. And robots can be as smart as we make them. So while right now it won't be teaching all the mad bike tricks. It definitely has the capabilities.
 





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#11
I agree with the parts about how the Grammarly program is amazing.

I disagree with where you said it won't do well. Because that's inaccurate. It will not add or remove any creative writing abilities. It is creative writing neutral. But I haven't actually tested that out. I don't do creative writing, I try to lay out the facts and present a good argument. And it doesn't help me find logical fallacies either.

And Training wheels? Really? That is a faulty analogy and I'm obligated to call out the fallacy. It is not some failsafe to protect us from falling down. This program speeds up and streamlines the learning process. So again, it's like having a robot teacher. And robots can be as smart as we make them. So while right now it won't be teaching all the mad bike tricks. It definitely has the capabilities.
The part about the creative writing. That is basically what I am saying, and I gave an example of what I mean. You could say neutral because it is the same thing as not benefiting the process of developing dialogue, which is something of an art form. Dialogue is what gives the character life, and can be difficult because the way people talk is in conflict with proper grammar most of the time. If you look at most of the errors people make in writing, they are usually the result of trying to write something the same way they would say it, and this doesn't translate well when you don't have gestures or facial expression to go with it. This is also what can make writing dialogue difficult because you want to create this picture in an elegant way. Grammarly is not going to know how to identify this, so it is not going to be helpful in achieving this because it is somewhat neutral on the subject.

I wouldn't call it a fallacy to say that it is like training wheels either. It is a comparison based on my own experience. Over time, using the program will train your brain so that your errors become less and less. Eventually, you can choose to not use it all and come out okay. A fallacy would suggest I was saying something that didn't have any substance, and I have used this program for years. This is the way I would compare my experience because it will help train your brain and improve your writing.

Having a teacher is essentially like having training wheels as well. It is kind of like there are sayings about the student becoming the teacher. Eventually, the student will not need the teacher. In the same way, a child will not always need training wheels, and you won't always need to use Grammarly for the same reasons. You will outgrow your own errors that are more frequent in the beginning if you use the program to help retrain the way you write. It isn't a faulty analogy. You just have a preference for your own because it makes more sense to you, which is fine.
 





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#12
The part about the creative writing. That is basically what I am saying, and I gave an example of what I mean. You could say neutral because it is the same thing as not benefiting the process of developing dialogue, which is something of an art form. Dialogue is what gives the character life, and can be difficult because the way people talk is in conflict with proper grammar most of the time. If you look at most of the errors people make in writing, they are usually the result of trying to write something the same way they would say it, and this doesn't translate well when you don't have gestures or facial expression to go with it. This is also what can make writing dialogue difficult because you want to create this picture in an elegant way. Grammarly is not going to know how to identify this, so it is not going to be helpful in achieving this because and this is because it is neutral on the subject.
Ok well, neutral and not doing well are a lot different. I know you know that. And I get what you meant, but this is the whole point of why I made this thread. Idk who you are talking about when you say, people talk in conflict with proper grammar. I think that most people talk just fine, they just write and spell like shit.

I wouldn't call it a fallacy to say that it is like training wheels either. It is a metaphor based on my own experience. Over time, using the program will train your brain so that your errors become less and less. Eventually, you can choose to not use it all and come out okay. A fallacy would suggest I was saying something that didn't have any substance, and I have used this program for years. This is the way I would compare my experience because it will help train your brain and improve your writing.

Having a teacher is essentially like having training wheels. It is kind of like the sayings about the student becoming the teacher. Eventually, the student will not need the teacher. In the same way, a child will not always need training wheels. It isn't a faulty analogy. You just have a preference for your own because it makes more sense to you, which is fine.
I think you should explain what training wheels actually train. Because it still seems faulty to me. Training wheels may help a personal sense of balance, but they don't teach the ins and outs of actual bike riding. And I'm sorry, but no. A teacher is not like having training wheels either. A fallacy can have substance and still be a fallacy.

Training wheels help with the most rudimentary of skills. And the idea that Grammarly is something to use than put down when you grow up is short-sighted. Like I highly doubt anyone is ever going to know how to spell every single word in the English language. Plus new words get put into the dictionary all the time. Who can keep up with that? You still think training wheels fit?
 





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#14
Ok well, neutral and not doing well are a lot different. I know you know that. And I get what you meant, but this is the whole point of why I made this thread. Idk who you are talking about when you say, people talk in conflict with proper grammar. I think that most people talk just fine, they just write and spell like shit.


I think you should explain what training wheels actually train. Because it still seems faulty to me. Training wheels may help a personal sense of balance, but they don't teach the ins and outs of actual bike riding. And I'm sorry, but no. A teacher is not like having training wheels either. A fallacy can have substance and still be a fallacy.

Training wheels help with the most rudimentary of skills. And the idea that Grammarly is something to use than put down when you grow up is short-sighted. Like I highly doubt anyone is ever going to know how to spell every single word in the English language. Plus new words get put into the dictionary all the time. Who can keep up with that? You still think training wheels fit?
People write poorly because they try to write the way they talk. For example, "Her progress, although talented, has been slowed by poor work habits." This is from The Bedford Guide to College Writing on revising sentences with dangling modifiers. A lot of people will do this because when you are talking, you can interject things like this as they come to mind. If I was talking to someone, there would be nothing wrong with pausing because I remembered that I wanted to add that I still think the person is talented even though she has poor work habits.

I would use a hand gesture that would help indicate that this just came to mind, and I would continue on with the conversation. However, reading a sentence like this creates unnecessary pauses that interrupt the reader's train-of-thought. So you would revise this sentence so that this segment was at the beginning of the sentence like, "Although she is talented, her progress has been slowed by poor work habits," so that there are two clear segments in the sentence instead of three, which makes it easier to read. This is more than likely what is creating a lot of the problems for many people. They are trying to write the same way they would talk, which is appropriate when you are talking, and not appropriate when you are writing.

This is why dialogue is an art form because writing the way you talk just looks like sloppy writing. Dialogue is whole different animal.

Grammarly can help identify things like this, and over time you will recognize when you are constructing a sentence this way without help. So yes, I think the training wheels analogy works well and we are splitting hairs a little bit over it. How long have you been using Grammarly and are you using their paid subscription?
 





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#15
People write poorly because they try to write the way they talk. For example, "Her progress, although talented, has been slowed by poor work habits." This is from The Bedford Guide to College Writing on revising sentences with dangling modifiers. A lot of people will do this because when you are talking, you can interject things like this as they come to mind. If I was talking to someone, there would be nothing wrong with pausing because I remembered that I wanted to add that I still think the person is talented even though she has poor work habits.
Some of this may be true. And I think your assumptions are unintentional. What I mean is, a lot of people write poorly because they never learned how. Or they don't care enough. They just don't know how to spell, or where to put commas. They don't know what words should be hyphenated. There are so many things that a human teacher doesn't have time to teach and test.

I would use a hand gesture that would help indicate that this just came to mind, and I would continue on with the conversation. However, reading a sentence like this creates unnecessary pauses that interrupt the reader's train-of-thought. So you would revise this sentence so that this segment was at the beginning of the sentence like, "Although she is talented, her progress has been slowed by poor work habits," so that there are two clear segments in the sentence instead of three, which makes it easier to read. This is more than likely what is creating a lot of the problems for many people. They are trying to write the same way they would talk, which is appropriate when you are talking, and not appropriate when you are writing.
Pretty sure you are just begging the question here. And that's a fallacy BTW. I'm not accusing you of having circular reasoning. Maybe this instance it's appropriate for a universal exception. I'm not really sure, but I think we all get the premise you have laid out.

This is why dialogue is an art form because writing the way you talk just looks like sloppy writing. Dialogue is whole different animal.
I think they are the same animal. That simply wear different disguises.

Grammarly can help identify things like this, and over time you will recognize when you are constructing a sentence this way without help. So yes, I think the training wheels analogy works well and we are splitting hairs a little bit over it. How long have you been using Grammarly and are you using their paid subscription?
I've been using it for about a month. I had a different program a while back but it's not supported anymore. My main problem with writing is I often overthink things. That leads to the land of irrelevancy, like begging the question.

It's not splitting hairs. Splitting hairs means there is a minimal difference between training wheels and a teacher. So now I'm honestly wondering if you have ever ridden an actual bike before. Like do you not understand that most of learning to control the bike happens after the wheels come off. There's not a minimal difference between being good on a bike and biking with the wheels on. It's a completely different experience. I actually had a bike that had training wheels, and they didn't teach me shit!
 





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#16
Some of this may be true. And I think your assumptions are unintentional. What I mean is, a lot of people write poorly because they never learned how. Or they don't care enough. They just don't know how to spell, or where to put commas. They don't know what words should be hyphenated. There are so many things that a human teacher doesn't have time to teach and test.



Pretty sure you are just begging the question here. And that's a fallacy BTW. I'm not accusing you of having circular reasoning. Maybe this instance it's appropriate for a universal exception. I'm not really sure, but I think we all get the premise you have laid out.



I think they are the same animal. That simply wear different disguises.



I've been using it for about a month. I had a different program a while back but it's not supported anymore. My main problem with writing is I often overthink things. That leads to the land of irrelevancy, like begging the question.

It's not splitting hairs. Splitting hairs means there is a minimal difference between training wheels and a teacher. So now I'm honestly wondering if you have ever ridden an actual bike before. Like do you not understand that most of learning to control the bike happens after the wheels come off. There's not a minimal difference between being good on a bike and biking with the wheels on. It's a completely different experience. I actually had a bike that had training wheels, and they didn't teach me shit!
I am simply trying to clarify the example I was making because you implied that you didn't understand the point I was trying to make about how people write the way they talk. Not everything is a fallacy either.

Okay, what I am saying is really just the compartmentalized version of what you are saying. As an incremental approach to learning writing, it is like using training wheels if you look at different aspects of learning to write individually. So for me, a teacher suggested using Grammarly to help correct my passive voice years ago. Therefore, passive voice is like the bike, and Grammarly is like the training wheels that would catch me when I was about to fall. Over time, I have fewer and fewer errors flagged as passive voice because of this, just like at a certain point your training wheels start to scrape the ground here and there because you aren't using them as much anymore.

This doesn't mean that there aren't other things that I need to work on or that I never have this error, but I was able to correct this because Grammarly caught me before I fell the way training wheels catch you before you fall and break your nose. However, learning to write is much more complex than learning to ride a bike so it is clearly not a literal comparison to riding a bike. What I am trying to say, is that you can improve in your ability to write so that features provided by Grammarly are not needed anymore.

In addition to this, using training wheels is an expression and a common way of conveying that something is good for a beginner. So I am also suggesting that Grammarly is a good tool for a beginner with a common figure-of-speech. It is not a literal comparison to begin with.

In addition to this, there is minimal difference between a teacher and training wheels when you remove the abstraction and recognize that teaching is really just a more complex form of a similar function. Training wheels are a function provided by teachers at the most basic level, or at an incremental level, which is why it is used as a common figure of speech.

At a certain point, Grammarly isn't going to help. I don't know how it is helping you identify irrelevant comments. Those are harder to develop an algorithm to identify. Your writing is pretty good already, by the way. Learning to write concisely, which is what you are talking about, requires training the eye for repetition and biting the bullet when removing irrelevancy requires removing something that you really, really like, so that the overall message is more concise. How is Grammarly helping you with this?
 





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#17
In his defense, I believe Poly said he wasn't going to bother capitalizing. That was in an early post from him. I can't remember which thread or as to the why.
give that man a cigar for having a sharp memory. i believe it was my post on the 'introduce yourself' thread.

i dont bother capitalizing or bother with apostrophes (unless its a plural possessive e.g., cats` ears) because i dont like to use the shift key or put any extra stress on my pinky. i had a bout of wrist problems from it in the past. i make an exception with plural possessives since they come up infrequently, and i feel that i let the reader know that i do understand how to use apostrophes.
when hand writing anything, capitals and apostrophes are used.
 





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#18
Well, you said it all right there. You were lucky to have such a meaningful experience. And not to put you on the spot or anything. But this is what your grammar looks like to me....

View attachment 14491

There are 10 errors in your grammar here. Of course, most of it is you not capitalizing I. For me this comes down to a question of information retention. I believe you had an amazing teacher, but you still couldn't remember that I should always be capitalized.

So it's like I was saying before. There are clear limitations to what 1 teacher can do. Add in the fact that a lot of teachers are getting shit on by the system. It just seems pretty obvious we can do so much better.
yes, i had a slip-up with the a/an and the word 'older'. i admit it: poor proofreading on my part when i later added that sentence into the story.
again, my typing 'style' is capitalization- free and apostrophe- free, except for plural possessives as an indicator that i know the rules. i am assuming that your sentence fragment laden posts and starting sentences with 'and' is your style (no snarkiness intended).
 





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#19
yes, i had a slip-up with the a/an with the 'older'. i admit it: poor proofreading on my part when i later added that sentence into the story.
again, my typing 'style' is capitalization- free and apostrophe- free, except for plural possessives as an indicator that i know the rules. i am assuming that your sentence fragment laden posts and starting sentences with 'and' is your style (no snarkiness intended).
Sentence fragments? Maybe, that's just me writing the way I talk! :cool:

And there is nothing wrong with starting a sentence with and. Once again, your claims don't seem to match what you are rationalizing. You are the one with the amazing teacher but fall for a common misconception.
 





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#20
I mostly agree with that. This isn't a forum about general topics though. Like a lot of this content is pretty advanced, and meant to be taken seriously. If you were to try to tell me about the next financial crisis but can't bother to capitalize it tells me something.
never assume that a person who has poor grammar is unintelligent or ignorant.
Sentence fragments? Maybe, that's just me writing the way I talk! :cool:

And there is nothing wrong with starting a sentence with and. Once again, your claims don't seem to match what you are rationalizing. You are the one with the amazing teacher but fall for a common misconception.
using the word 'and' to start a sentence should be an infrequent occurrance. check into it.