Problematic verses for replacement theologists

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I am not at odds with God on this, you only believe this way because you were indoctrinated to believe these things about Israel. As I have mentioned dozens of times on this site which is ignored over and over, until about the 1830's essentially no one in Church History every thought or believed in Israel having any part to do with Eschatology. This is just a plain and simple fact that no one who promotes Zionism cares to address or uphold.
Yes you are at odds with God on this point.

The restoration of the jewish nation is foretold in both Testaments... and you call the promise and work of God for Antichristian.

Well God and i don't care... we go on.

We go again God and i. L0L


I tell you the truth man... i am the most knowledgeable Bible scholar you'll ever meet.
 
Last edited:

Daciple

Star
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
Yes you are at odds with God on this point.
No

The restoration of the jewish nation is foretold in both Testaments
No

and you call the promise and work of God for Antichristian.
I call the people who created and live and run the Government upon the Land Mass you call Israel, Antichrist because they are literally Antichrist. They hate Jesus, maybe if you were a knowledgeable Bible Scholar you would know what Religion these people adhere to if any, but clearly you dont.

Well God and i don't care... we go on.
You dont speak for God, and IDC if you dont care so I guess we are even on that point. You however didnt address anything I have actually written which your MO, even tho you claim to be a Bible Scholar. Please point me to your accredited degrees sir...

I tell you the truth man... i am the most knowledgeable Bible scholar you'll ever meet.
First no, you are not a Bible Scholar #1, I am sure you possess 0 degrees nor can you read or write in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. You seem to have a limited grasp on English.

#2 maybe, a Bible Scholar such as yourself ought to actually read and then conform yourself to what the Bible actually says, here let me help you out on this subject:

Pro 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Basic Wisdom, basic Biblical Knowledge, in fact it is basic understanding in life, anyone that has to boast of his greatness in something possess little to no actual greatness.

There is a word that is used to describe people who heap upon themselves praise in their own eyes and from their own mouth, a Bible Scholar knows what it is, and they 100% avoid doing that because it means they are actually this:

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

That person is more than a fool, and he is full of Pride. You have been told this time and time again about your self proclamations and prideful boasting of being the most wise or whatever other adjective you want to boast yourself in being. Here are some other good verses from the Word of God, a True Bible Scholar and Wise man would heed it, you so far havent, show yourself Wise and stop telling us about it man:

Pro 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Pro 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
Sorry it took me so long to reply to this. It's hard to do lengthy replies on my phone so I have to fire up the laptop. I hope you find it worth the effort.

Then you must now reject Paul who tells you plainly who the seed of Abraham is and who the recipient of the Promises given in that Chapter and every time God did make a promise to Abraham actually are:

Who are the actual children of Abraham, physical descendants or those in the Faith?

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham
.

I mean Paul is literally quoting from the exact chapter you are using as your proof text, you understand this correct?
The context of God promising Abraham that his heirs would be his physical children means that God can't substitute anyone other than Abraham's actual children as heirs. You need to have a scriptural argument for why, when God says, he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir, that's not really what he means. Nothing you've put in your post abrogates that promise.

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness
.

Who is the Seed, was it the physical children of Abraham? The entire Nation of Israel or was it singular, Seed?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Who was the Promise made according to Scripture? Christ, the singular Seed.
Let's talk about the promises God made to Abraham for a second. God made three promises to Abraham that concern us (not including the one about who his heir would be), and they are the promise of the land, the promise of many descendants, and the promise that through his seed, all nations would be blessed.

The last promise is the one we all inherit, through our faith. We become children of the faith, through the father of faith, Abraham. There's nothing in the Bible that should make anyone think we become his actual children. It doesn't make sense.

Something else that doesn't make sense is your reading of Galatians 3:16. You say Jesus Christ is the singular seed, which is correct, and if you read the verse, it says that "to Abraham and his seed were the promises made". But then you also say that Jesus Christ is the promise made according to scripture. How could Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, be a promise about himself, to himself?

The spiritual promise that was made to Abraham, that we all inherit, is not Jesus Christ. The promise is the Spirit of God, which we receive through belief in Jesus Christ. At the end of this age, all living souls on earth will have the Spirit of God within them, fulfilling two prophecies.

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Who are the Children of God? Physical descendants of Abraham? Nope not according to Scripture. Who are the Promises given to? Physical descendants of Abraham? Nope not according to Scripture. It is literally ONLY those who are in Christ that are Children of Abraham, Children of God, Children of the Promise. A persons physical lineage means absolutely nothing at all.

There are 2 people in the World, the Lost who are not the Children of Abraham, who are not going to receive the Promise, who are not the Children of God and the Saved in Christ of which whose lineage means literally nothing. They are not Jew or Greek, Bond or Free, they are all one in Christ.
Yes, we are all one in Jesus Christ, but as long as you and I are alive, we remain the same sex, race, etc. It's only after death or Rapture that we lose those distinctions. Meanwhile, the prophecies regarding Israel are about physical Israel, and the eternal state of believers doesn't affect Israel's physical status one bit.

Israel means nothing anymore, and really all you need to do is take this Scripture and understand that EVERYTHING promised to the Nation of Israel, ALL OF IT, was literally promised to ONLY JESUS, He is the SEED. If there be any OUTSIDE of the SEED then they receive nothing, they get nothing, the mean nothing in light of the Promises and Eternal Salvation.

So yes without a doubt the AntiChrist Nation of Israel is meaningless, and its not Replacement Theology its called fulfillment of Scripture.
I've already posted verses that strongly disagree with what you've said. Please address these verses and the promises God made to the nation of Israel.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

The Church towers over and above the Nation of Israel and ANYONE who was a believer that was a Physical Descendant of Abraham IS part of the Church. However I already know you dont believe that because you think the Church can only be after Christ but that is not the case. Israel was the representation of God to the World prior to Christ and the Church is the representation of God after Christ, we are ALL in the same Tree.
That's not what I believe. A Jew who accepts Jesus Christ today becomes a part of the Church. After the Church is Raptured, every Jew on earth will be an unbeliever. Those Jews who accept Jesus Christ during the Tribulation do not become part of the Church -- they are completed Jews -- the Jews Paul speaks of ...

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The believing remnant of Israel will be the ones who receive the physical promise of the land that God gave to Abraham and his descendants. That's only fair, don't you think? God promised it, and what does the Church want with it? Through Jesus Christ, we have everything.
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
Well, the 10 horns were the 10 emperors from augustus to vespasian who ruled judea and the temple.
the horn who subdued 3 was the year of 4 emperors.
the litle horn was titus.
This all fit into the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9 eg the abomination of desolation was titus, just as the other abomination was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Jesus said 'this generation will not pass away until' etc and that was fulfilled 35 yrs later by Titus's destruction of jerusalem and that temple.
Just the same way if you read daniel 7, it goes from the little horn...right the way to the second coming of Jesus.

The problem is Jesus didnt come. What was revealed after was the book of Revelation...and the feet of iron/clay of Daniel 2 finally make sense within that context.

looking for clues...the first is obviously Jesus said 'no one knows the last hour, not even the Son nor the angels' (because he isnt god lol)...so the idea that Jesus was supposed to come immediately after Titus is negated.
Jesus said 'the days will be shortened' but we have no clue what that means.
the way i see it, just like in the OT when God talked of 'The day of the Lord' that ends up being an entire age.

Also Jesus said 'you will flee to the mountains', not 'you will flee to the wilderness'. Even Ezekiel 38 talks of the people going to the mountains of israel to seek refuge from Gog & Magog.

As far as the timescale, days/weeks/years in relation to the 70 week prophecy goes...1 day was equal to 1 year. The final week leaving 7 years on one hand, yet...can you rationally explain why there's this huge gap between the 69th week and the final week? the truth is you and i don't know..just as Jesus said 'no one knows the last hour except the Father'.
all i do know is the interesting way prophecy has since unfolded in relation to the 70 week prophecy
apply this elsewhere

42 months=1260 days..
a day like a year=1260 years..it fits.

Are you really telling me it isnt just odd that Rev 12 specifically mentions giving the outer court of the temple to the gentiles....'they will trample there for 42 months'..and this clearly does match with the history of islam even accounting within the specific break when christians took the temple mt off muslims from the first crusade? prior to the muslim conquest of jerusalem, the temple mount had no significance to christians.
no matter how much of a christian you wish to be, it would be pretty dumb to act like islam doesnt have a positive significance within future biblical contexts.
the period of the gentiles linking to God's promise to Ismael only adds to the power of God's promise.


now ill respond directly on your view of the Rev 12 prophecy
the woman is sarah, the 12 stars representing the 12 tribes of israel. Her son is Jesus.
good..

And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

this adds up, you know, jews fleeing from roman persecution went to arabia. dont get me wrong though, im still aware of arab persecution of jews post-islam...but im looking at it from the perspective of jews who merged within arab society ie belonging to the bloodline, but not being 'jewish' externally. there were many jewish converts to islam.

petra was occupied by the romans..why would it be diff in a future context?
Mainland arabia wasnt, that's why jews went there..and obv islam came to arabia and muslims ruled the temple mount for 1260 lunar years specifically, as in exactly that number until the creation of israel.

17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
so here we're talking about the Lost tribes ie the rest of her offspring..and as i said, they went EAST.
keep God's commands and believe in Jesus?

they're obv not jewish by bloodline, they're lost tribes..so that rules out messianic jews who believe in Jesus and follow the law of Moses
and they're obv not Christian because 'they keep God's commands'.
christianity is sonship/faith and not about keeping commands. The only time Jesus gave 'commands' was to jews who were also under the law before the crucifixion.


also let's not ignore the fact that christian civilisation IS THE BEAST ie Rome/end times rome/european colonialism headed by the 'whore sitting on the beast'
it seems the synagogue of satan and the beast have conspired to wipe out the real remnant who are muslims.
it makes perfect sense buddy...look at the wars in the middle east and the invasion of afghanistan. it's just a weird dynamic..you have pakistan with a pathan prime minister...you have a country with an army dominated by rajput and pathans who are possibly lost tribes..
you have kashmir both the pak and india side with muslims who again could be lost tribes..
and israel and the US are in truth backing india against them.

it's also fascinating that these people and places featured heavily in zoroastrian messianic prophecy before islam. For example...the bahman yast prophecy...and we at least know zoroastrianism and cyrus the great had some connection with the God..right to surah 18 in the quran were the story of cyrus (which is in isaiah 45) is retold. Those prophecies foretold an end times war of east vs west...and the west was evil...we know the west=the beast system/rome.

personally, i cant imagine a context where i would be consciously aware and choosing to side with the west/israel etc.
However, i do believe in messianic israel, the remnant etc. i dont support 'bloodlines' either and i dont believe it is necessary for the remnant to be muslim or anything specific, they could be doing hoodoo in africa for all i care...however im looking at the contexts laid out in prophecy and applying them to the real world/history. i dont see how prophecies like Rev 12 support the western/roman/colonial/christian and israel side...but i do see how clear cut the mystery babylon/beast connection is to the western/roman/colonial christian and israel side..and it is clear you support that side.
Back to my first post to you. There's too much wrong. No false religion has any bearing on this topic.
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
There you go, God fulfilled His Promise to Israel and the Land Mass, everything all of it came to pass. There is literally nothing else that has to happen with the Land Mass and Government of Israel. It has been fulfilled, however the Spiritual Aspect of it all, and thus the TYPOLOGY of Israel is fulfilled in Christ and the Church, period...
No, the promise of the land is that it will be an everlasting possession for Israel, and that once they possess it, they will never turn from God.

And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

If the promise is fulfilled, Israel would have always been in possession of all the land they were promised, and they never would have turned from God. Please explain how you've managed to mangle the Bible so badly.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I call the people who created and live and run the Government upon the Land Mass you call Israel, Antichrist because they are literally Antichrist. They hate Jesus, maybe if you were a knowledgeable Bible Scholar you would know what Religion these people adhere to if any, but clearly you dont.
You clearly don't understand that a hardening in part has come to Israel... until the fullness of the gentiles has come in.


You dont speak for God, and IDC if you dont care so I guess we are even on that point. You however didnt address anything I have actually written which your MO, even tho you claim to be a Bible Scholar. Please point me to your accredited degrees sir...
I am self made with a little help from God.L0L

You see my prowess in interpreting bible prophecies prove i speak for God.

So since you don't recognize it you are lacking... but i knew that about you since the beginning seeing you love your own voice or words so much.


Pro 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Basic Wisdom, basic Biblical Knowledge, in fact it is basic understanding in life, anyone that has to boast of his greatness in something possess little to no actual greatness.

There is a word that is used to describe people who heap upon themselves praise in their own eyes and from their own mouth, a Bible Scholar knows what it is, and they 100% avoid doing that because it means they are actually this:

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
I am not conceited since i speak truths... but you are conceited since you think that God has disallowed the jews from being a nation again. You are full of yourself which your long posts prove... while i am short and sweet with a bit of wit and some slur to be fair but perhaps deserved.

Besides i'm not boasting... i'm just stating simple facts.
 

DavidSon

Star
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,006
...however im looking at the contexts laid out in prophecy and applying them to the real world/history. i dont see how prophecies like Rev 12 support the western/roman/colonial/christian and israel side...but i do see how clear cut the mystery babylon/beast connection is to the western/roman/colonial christian and israel side..and it is clear you support that side.
Man your interpretation of Revelation is superb. I've never been especially drawn to John's Apocalypse but the way you place world events makes a lot of sense. In simple terms It couldn't be more obvious who represents the beast and prostitute, and who is on the side of RIGHT.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,908
Man your interpretation of Revelation is superb. I've never been especially drawn to John's Apocalypse but the way you place world events makes a lot of sense. In simple terms It couldn't be more obvious who represents the beast and prostitute, and who is on the side of RIGHT.
one of the key prophecies which links to mystery babylon, is Zech 5. yet within that we also get

Zechariah 5
The Flying Scroll
5 I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2 He asked me, “What do you see?”

I answered, “I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide.”

3 And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’”




hadith
(1) Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who accepted usury, the one who paid it, the witness to it, and the one who recorded it. (Book #22, Hadith #3327)

self explanatory really.
and it links with themes in Habakkuk 2, Jeremiah 2 & 3 and ultimately with the Revelation prophecies.

the hadith just add the icing on the cake..

Saheeh Muslim (2922), it is narrated from the hadith of Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Hour will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them, until a Jew hides behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Except the gharqad (a thorny tree), for it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

on it's own, a completely weird and offensive hadith

in retrospect
Habakuk 2
“‘Woe to him who piles up stolen goods
and makes himself wealthy by extortion!(usury)
How long must this go on?’
Will not your creditors suddenly arise?

Because you have plundered many nations,
the peoples who are left will plunder you.
For you have shed human blood;
you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them.
9 “Woe to him who builds his house by unjust gain,
setting his nest on high
to escape the clutches of ruin!
10 You have plotted the ruin of many peoples,
shaming your own house and forfeiting your life.
11 The stones of the wall will cry out,
and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.


thing is, we all live in this system

(2) Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A time is certainly coming to mankind when only the receiver of usury will remain, and if he does not receive it, some of its vapour will reach him. Ibn Isa said: Some of its dust will reach him. (Book #22, Hadith #3325)

i mean its going to be pretty bad when this system is destroyed..and yet it is all part of the 'dajjalic' plan, hence israel is part of the decoy.
 
Top