Pre-Advent Judgment.

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#1
Summary: Before Christ returns, He will judge between those who follow Him and those who do not.

In the Bible there are are several phases to the judgment: investigation, vindication, and execution. The investigative, or pre-advent, judgment takes place before the Second Coming of Christ.

The Bible makes it clear that Christ will judge everyone before He returns: "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12). See also John 5:22, 2 Timothy 4:1, 8; Hebrews 10:30; and Revelation 19:11.

We know from 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17that when the Lord comes, “the dead in Christ will rise first” and then those that are alive “will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (see also 1 Peter 4:17).

If Christ will know who to raise from the dead, then logically He must have already decided before He arrived who gets which reward. This process of deciding who will be rewarded and resurrected is the first part of the judgment process, known as the investigative, pre-advent, or pre-millennial judgment, and will take place before Christ’s coming.

When Jesus returns to this earth, He will reward those who have been obedient and He will punish the disobedient—those who have chosen to follow Satan's methods. The decision of who is saved or not saved will precede the coming of Christ. The reward for those who choose God's way is eternal life, and those people will be resurrected at the Second Coming.

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#2
The Standard of Judgment

Summary: What will Christ use to measure us when He judges?


We know that Christ will judge everyone before He returns. What tool will He use as a standard of judgment?

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak, ye and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12).

The standard of judgment is the law of God, because “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4).

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).

The law of Ten Commandments is the standard of judgment. It is also called the law of liberty because we can only be free of our sinful habits when we follow that law. God has appointed a day for judgment and Jesus Himself will judge using this law:

"He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).

"I said in my heart, “God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work” (Ecclesiastes 3:17).


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#4
Which is it? Before he returns, or when he returns?
Before Jesus returns there will be a judgement in heaven. Even in our courts here on earth there is a judgement or verdict then the judge announces the sentence whether it be good or bad. Jesus is our Judge, “The Father ... hath committed all judgment unto the Son” (John 5:22), so when He returns the second time, He will come with the rewards for all of us according to the results of the judgement carried out in heaven and our choices. Its really not confusing at all.

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
 





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#6
Which verse do you use to support the idea that Jesus will judge sinners in Heaven before his return?
Its not only one verse in one book. Its the whole Bible. Remember I told you that the Bible doesn't talk about a subject only in one place and certainly not in a single verse. Have you read the scripture I posted above? I have more to post though.

Btw this ties in with the cleansing of the Sanctuary that I've posted about in my forum of the heavenly temple/sanctuary that you said was heresy.
 





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#7
Which verse do you use to support the idea that Jesus will judge sinners in Heaven before his return?
When do you think this judgement takes place? Daniel 7:6-14

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
 





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#8
When do you think this judgement takes place? Daniel 7:6-14

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
I was going to post about that and more.
 





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#9
The Judgment and the Old Testament
Summary: Old Testament books such as Daniel, Malachi, and even Ecclesiastes discuss the coming judgment.

God uses the prophecies and the sanctuary service of the Old Testament to explain the judgment.


The Day of Atonement

God’s work of salvation, judgment, and restoration can be too huge to grasp. That’s why He gave us a miniature representation: the sanctuary service, set up during Moses’ lifetime.

Everything in the sanctuary, from the articles of furniture to the rituals and practices of its services, pointed to Christ and His plan to redeem and save humanity. The sanctuary’s articles of furniture typified actual places in heaven. The Ark of the Covenant typified God’s throne in heaven. The feasts and rituals symbolized what God would do through Christ on Earth.

The Day of Atonement was the final cleansing of the sanctuary–the day God officially removed the record of sin standing between Him and His people. On that day, anyone who had not confessed his sin and made things right with God was put away from the Israelites. It was the most solemn day of the year.

Similarly, on the antitypical Day of Atonement, the heavenly sanctuary must likewise be cleansed of the record of humanity’s sins since the beginning of time. On a much grander scale, the services on the Day of Atonement will take place in real time. What took one day in the sanctuary service on Earth will take much longer in reality.


The Prophecy of Daniel

Daniel describes this great judgment scene in heaven:

"I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; a fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened" (Daniel 7:9-10).

In this scene, the judgment is set and books are opened. These books are records of the deeds of all those who are to be judged. There are a number of books mentioned in the Bible, such as the the Book of Remembrance (Malachi 3:16, Revelation 20:12).

The Bible tells us that our lives are recorded in heaven:

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:14).

"But I say to you, That for every idle word men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy works thou shalt be condemned" (Matthew 12:36-37).

"And the LORD said unto Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book" (Exodus 32:33).

This judgment should not be taken lightly, and has implications for our lives today.
 





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#10
Its not only one verse in one book. Its the whole Bible. Remember I told you that the Bible doesn't talk about a subject only in one place and certainly not in a single verse. Have you read the scripture I posted above? I have more to post though.

Btw this ties in with the cleansing of the Sanctuary that I've posted about in my forum of the heavenly temple/sanctuary that you said was heresy.
I have read the scripture you've posted. Not one verse describes any judgement in Heaven.
 





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#11
When do you think this judgement takes place? Daniel 7:6-14

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
That is the Great White Throne judgement depicted in Revelation 20. If you read the chapter chronologically, and there's no reason not to, it happens at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
 





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#12
I have read the scripture you've posted. Not one verse describes any judgement in Heaven.
I've posted more and of course Jesus is coming with the rewards for all us because judgement will have taken place in heaven before. That should be obvious to you.

The day of atonement in heaven which takes years and is a period not a day, takes place in heaven before Jesus comes back the second time. Remember the earthly sanctuary system was a representation of what will take place in the heavenly temple with Jesus' sacrifice instead of lamb's blood according to the book of Hebrews. The heavenly sanctuary must be cleansed and that will sort out the righteous from the unrighteous.

Study it because clearly you don't understand it. Go to my forum on the Holy temple/sanctuary as it explains more on this subject. You keep resisting the truth because you don't understand. Study the Hebrews chapter 1-10, and it goes without saying pray for guidance first from the Holy spirit first. We cannot understand any of this without the Holy spirit.
 





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#13
I've posted more and of course Jesus is coming with the rewards for all us because judgement will have taken place in heaven before. That should be obvious to you.
Everyone — saved and unsaved — is judged in Heaven before Jesus returns to earth?
 





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#14
That is the Great White Throne judgement depicted in Revelation 20. If you read the chapter chronologically, and there's no reason not to, it happens at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth.



And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I know this response is not for me but the judgement in Daniel 7 is not the White throne Judgement. The White throne judgement is the third and final phase of the judgement that comes after the 1000 years and is the judgement of the lost and dead. It takes place on earth and after it the very people being judged are thrown into the lake of fire which it takes place right here on earth. How do I know this?

Revelation 20:7-15, says, "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

After the wicked surround the City of God, but before they are destroyed, God opens the books of Heaven and shows each one of the lost the record of his or her life of rebellion against God.


The events of Daniel 7 take place in a different setting which is heaven because at the end there is no lake of fire. There is more too. Lets look at those verses again.

Daniel 7:9-10, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."

The Ancient of Days is God the Father. It is the Father who will preside in the judgment. And the holy angels will be ministers and witnesses, and their number will be "ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,". That is 100 million plus angels who will be in attendance in this great judgement. I have a forum about the books of record in the Bible. Those are the books that are opened. Do you see that those are not the same scenes or settings as the White throne judgement? There is more.

Daniel 7:13-14, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

The coming of Christ (one like the Son of man) described here is not His second coming to the earth. He comes to the Ancient of Days (the Father) in heaven, the throne of God the Father to receive dominion and glory and a kingdom. Christ's mediating ministry will cease, and He will put on His kingly robes prior to His return as King of kings. This all happens before Jesus comes back for His people.
 





Axl888

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#16
Everyone — saved and unsaved — is judged in Heaven before Jesus returns to earth?
I believe only the righteous/saved enters heaven.

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. - Rev. 22:14-15
 





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#17
I believe only the righteous/saved enters heaven.

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. - Rev. 22:14-15
I want @phipps to answer the question, but I think he’ll stop talking to me now, just like he always does when I ask him questions he can’t answer. :)
 





Axl888

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#18
The Standard of Judgment

Summary: What will Christ use to measure us when He judges?


We know that Christ will judge everyone before He returns. What tool will He use as a standard of judgment?

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak, ye and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12).

The standard of judgment is the law of God, because “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4).

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).

The law of Ten Commandments is the standard of judgment. It is also called the law of liberty because we can only be free of our sinful habits when we follow that law. God has appointed a day for judgment and Jesus Himself will judge using this law:

"He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).

"I said in my heart, “God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work” (Ecclesiastes 3:17).


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I believe the ten commandment has already been superseded

Mark 12:30-31 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [a]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Galatians 5:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Even the sabbath is not a requirement anymore.
 





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#19
[
I won't stop talking to you here unless you become obnoxious. That's when I stop talking to you. I know I'm telling you the truth but I can't convict you of it. That's the job of the Holy Spirit.

Everyone is judged before Jesus returns. As I've just shown you especially with the judgement scenes in heaven from Daniel 7 where all the books are opened and judgement is set. I will add two points.

1- Just before He returns, Jesus will stop His intercessory work in heaven and wear His Kingly Robes ready to come for His people as Kings of kings. When Jesus went back to heaven after dying for our sins on the cross, the book of Hebrews especially tells us, He began intercession on our behalf in the heavenly temple. That means when we sin and repent with humbleness and faithfulness, Jesus goes before the Father pleading our cases and claiming forgiveness for our sins. He does not excuse our sins, but shows why He died on the cross for us. The Bible says,

Hebrews 7:25, "Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."

Hebrews 9:24, "For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;"

I John 2:1, "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

The intercession of Christ on our behalf in the heavenly temple/sanctuary is as important to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven.

That intercession for us will stop before Jesus returns because everyone's case will be decided and we won't need to mediate on our behalf any more.


2- This point is connected to the first point. Judgement in heaven will stop before Jesus returns. Its what some call "the close of probation". After Christ finishes His Pre advent judgement, the final decision will be made as to who will be saved and who won't. After that no one will be able to choose between serving God or Satan. Christ will lay aside His High priestly garments and put on His kingly robes then an announcement will be made in heaven saying, "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." Revelation 22:11-12. Once probation closes, the final events on this earth will move forward quickly. Since there will be no more opportunity to change one’s master, there will be no more reason for the righteous to continue living in this evil world of Satan for long.

This is the truth of the Bible.
 





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#20
That is the Great White Throne judgement depicted in Revelation 20. If you read the chapter chronologically, and there's no reason not to, it happens at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth.



And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Ok, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. The Great white throne judgement happens with the redeemed already in heaven, right? If it’s the same one in Daniel, wouldn’t Daniel be shown the throng of the redeemed? It seems as though in the scene he beheld, there were no human beings in heaven while court was in session.

Revelation 20 does mention who is on trial, the unredeemed; so when do the redeemed stand trial because they cannot go to heaven until they’ve stood trial & been acquitted (so to speak)?