Tidal
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- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
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Might a modern sword be a Smith & Wesson? ;-)
Yup, or even one of these..-
Might a modern sword be a Smith & Wesson? ;-)
I suspect Luke 22 indicates that this might be overkill for the purpose of self-defence ;-)Yup, or even one of these..-
First of all you've quoted the wrong verse. Luke 22:38 says, "So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” The verse you quoted is verse 36.Jesus said we should buy swords, shall we do that?
"..and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one" (Luke 22:38)
Thanks, yes here's the verse again for clarification-First of all you've quoted the wrong verse. Luke 22:38 says, "So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” The verse you quoted is verse 36.
Thanks, yes here's the verse again for clarification-
36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
I posted it to show the danger of people taking Jesus's words too literally, because gun fanatics might see it as an instruction to arm themselves. As you rightly say, we need to take his words in context to realise he was simply cynically warning of rough times ahead.
Likewise when Paul said women can't speak in church we need to take that in context too, to realise it only applied to noisy chatterbox women in the early churches..
I understand your point now.I posted it to show the danger of people taking Jesus's words too literally, because gun fanatics might see it as an instruction to arm themselves. As you rightly say, we need to take his words in context to realise he was simply cynically warning of rough times ahead.
Nope, Paul was not referring to chatterbox women as I've clearly shown. If that was the case, was Paul saying its okay for men to be chatterboxes in church? No one should be a chatterbox in church male or female. We all have to be respectful in church and talk only when there is a reason to. He meant what I said he meant as I proved from 1 Timothy 2:8–15. He said in verse 12, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.” So its not about women being chatterboxes in church and this agrees with Paul’s discussion in 1 Corinthians 11, which shows women participated in prayer and prophecy in the early church. Verses 3-6, "But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered." Women can't teach men or be leaders in church. They can't be ordained as leaders in church biblically.Likewise when Paul said women can't speak in church we need to take that in context too, to realise it only applied to noisy chatterbox women in the early churches.
1 Corinthians 11, which shows women participated in prayer and prophecy in the early church..
Well when gangs roam the streets it is smart to arm yourselves. You may have family you want to protect.Thanks, yes here's the verse again for clarification-
36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
I posted it to show the danger of people taking Jesus's words too literally, because gun fanatics might see it as an instruction to arm themselves.
Well when gangs roam the streets it is smart to arm yourselves. You may have family you want to protect.
You talk as if you have no idea what's coming...
"Prophecy" means two things biblically. It means being able to foretell the future and preaching. As I posted in a previous post, there were female prophets in the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. To add to the ones I already named, there were Philip the evangelist's four unmarried daughters who prophesied in Acts 21:8-11. Paul stayed with Philip and his family and was ministered to, but when God wanted to reveal something to Paul prophetically, He did not use any of Philip’s daughters. He used a male prophet from another city to instruct Paul. So women can teach men in a private setting as we are shown with Priscilla and Aquila too. They shared the gospel with Apollos privately (Acts 18:26).Prayer I understand, but what exactly is "prophecy"?
Did women stand up and start preaching to the congregation or what?
So women can teach men in a private setting as we are shown with Priscilla and Aquila too. They shared the gospel with Apollos privately (Acts 18:26).
Its not about what Paul thought. Nothing in the Bible (which is inspired by God 2 Timothy 3:16) is about what people think. Its God's message to us. The Bible is a manual on how we should live our lives in Christ. God gave us the Bible through the Holy spirit for that purpose and more. So what Paul wrote is in line with God's teaching or it would not be in the Bible.Thanks, correct me if I'm wrong, but Paul apparently banned women from standing up front in churches and preaching to the congregation.
The big question is WHY would he do that? Didn't he think women were as good at preaching as men?
So what Paul wrote is in line with God's teaching or it would not be in the Bible...
..Women can share the gospel with men but not in a public setting.
Paul was led by the Holy Spirit and the Bible is God's inspired Word. So all Paul's writings are God's Word to us. If anyone disregards Paul's writings and what the Bible in whole has to say about our roles as women and men, they are rejecting God's counsel. We are not to pick and choose what we agree with from the Word of God and reject what we don't agree with.Paul had to lay down rules to stop some noisy women disrupting the early church services..
As for not being allowed to share the gospel in a public setting, this forum is a public setting, so shall we put you and other VC women on ignore?..
There are thousands of enlightened women vicars, pastors, ministers, clergy and street preachers today who are happy to disregard Paul and preach in public settings, so who's right, you or them?
And remember, if you go around saying women must "submit to men", that oldfashioned outdated view won't go down at all well with modern women today and will put them off Christianity, and I'm sure satan will be chuckling..
How am I putting women off Christianity if the Word of God is saying the exact same thing?
Were most things in the Bible said directly by God? Most things were said by men and women of God through the Holy spirit. God passed His message mostly through His people. And you're playing dumb again. I already explained from a biblical point of view using scripture, this scripture in particular, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12), that Paul did not mean women should keep their traps shut in church. He meant women should not preach in church or teach other men. That is God's message to us all whether you like it or not. Its up to you whether you accept or reject it but I repeat, its not me whose telling you these things, its God. Not Paul either. God. Why? Because "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).1Timothy 2:12-15, "And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.."
No, it was Paul who said that, not God or Jesus..
No offence honeybun, but what gives you the right to try to teach us men in this forum if Paul says you're supposed to keep your trap shut?
..Why are you having a go at me for telling you the truth of the Bible?..Its amazes me how people get angry when told the truth. And I am not your honeybun, don't ever call me that ever again do you understand?..
Since you asked... this is from the abundant commentary on LUKE 22:38Jesus said we should buy swords, shall we do that?
"..and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one" (Luke 22:38)
Hmm.. perhaps I'm confusing you with a user named @Todd that I've seen posting on old forums too. Unless you are him, lol.Steph, I don't hate Paul, and you're wrong in thinking that, so you might be wrong in other things too..
This is completely an invalid understanding and use of scripture. Considering that Paul (and the other Apostles) teach that we are NEW in Christ- the second Adam who never sinned- born of spirit and not of clay-AND NO LONGER UNDER THE CURSE OF THE FIRST ADAM- how do you justify putting Christian women back UNDER the curse IN CHRIST? (1 Corinthians 15:45-49 ) EVE was created as a HELP-MEET- (equal)- not a servant or slave to Adam before the curse- and Christ erases the curse and brings back harmony. You are going 360 degrees backwards in your logic,That's not what he meant at all. Have you read everything that the Bible has to say about marriage? It is God who said women should be submissive to their husbands after Adam and Even sinned in the garden of sin.
Genesis 3:16, "To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” What I said is exactly what Paul meant and that's because he knew what God said about women submitting to their husbands.
Again.. an invalid use of scripture which I already explained in a previous reply - that we are to be into submission to Christ the husbandman and the disciples, apostles and prophets as husbandmen- as well as men- and therefore one. Not in submission to a sinful carnal man outside of scripture still in Adam and not in Christ.How can women save their husbands? Christ saves us all and no one can save anyone. That is not biblical. Women biblically are to be submissive to their husbands as I've posted above. Husbands are to be Christlike. They are to be servant-leaders in the home the same way Jesus came to love, serve, and lead His church. Husbands are to love their families so much so that they can die for their them just as Christ died for us.
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband" (Ephesians 5:22-33). If mean and women fulfil their roles as outlined in the Bible, we'll serve God better.
Well- firstly- that is not true that the scripture does not tell us the gender of the Holy Spirit. On many levels.. am not sure if your are being facetious here or not on many levels. Because first of all- it does. In the Tanakh/Torah the Holy Spirit is feminine Hebrew. And even personalized as a woman in the Book of Proverbs. In the Greek- the word Pneuma is a neuter noun- Greek does not have male female meanings attached to their words like in Hebrew (or Aramaic). So in the NT- in Greek- the word spirit is an 'It.' However- Constantine and the Romans ignored the Tanakh and Torah and changed the 'it' to a 'he'- and not a 'she'. But you claim that even this scripture in (mis)translation does not even have a gender for the Holy Spirit. How can this be? BTW- 'the Holy Spirit of understanding (Wisdom) that Jesus says will be sent to teach all things at the proper time is clearly a SHE in the Book of Proverbs- as well as the Ruach hovering over the waters in Genesis that was with God during the creation in Hebrew. That is ELOHIM. Our Mother and Father. Whom Adam and Eve were created in the image of. And quick question.. considering that it is physically impossible for 2 males to have a child.. and that God said let US created man and women in OUR image.. how can the Father and the Holy Spirit (as a 'he' in the (mis)translation of the Bible-) have a baby? As far as I know.. that requires a male and female. Correct me if I'm wrong.Please show me scripture that says that because as far as I know the Bible does not tell us the gender of the Holy Spirit. All I need is biblical proof So then I will know for sure.
Did women stop giving birth in pain? Did they stop desiring for their men? What about the other curses to the serpent and man (Genesis 3:14-15, 17-19)? Are they not still valid? Death was part of the curse? Do people stop dying in this world because they accepted Christ as their personal Saviour? The curse of sin will be with us till the end. And when did I say that women are servants and slaves to men? Don't put words in my mouth. Its funny how you think you're the one using logic!This is completely an invalid understanding and use of scripture. Considering that Paul (and the other Apostles) teach that we are NEW in Christ- the second Adam who never sinned- born of spirit and not of clay-AND NO LONGER UNDER THE CURSE OF THE FIRST ADAM- how do you justify putting Christian women back UNDER the curse IN CHRIST? (1 Corinthians 15:45-49 ) EVE was created as a HELP-MEET- (equal)- not a servant or slave to Adam before the curse- and Christ erases the curse and brings back harmony. You are going 360 degrees backwards in your logic,
My use of scripture is not invalid at all. What you've done is completely dismiss those verses that clearly say "Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body." This is not hard to understand that even a child would understand. As Christians we are not supposed to pick and choose what scripture we agree with then disregard the rest. The whole Bible is God's message to us and it harmonises too. If you disregard certain parts of it, then it doesn't make sense. What you're saying does not make sense.Again.. an invalid use of scripture which I already explained in a previous reply - that we are to be into submission to Christ the husbandman and the disciples, apostles and prophets as husbandmen- as well as men- and therefore one. Not in submission to a sinful carnal man outside of scripture still in Adam and not in Christ.
Hopefully by the time you get to read thispart, you will have understood that the first Adam is the literal Adam of the garden of Eden and the Second Adam is Christ who redeems us from the first Adam's sin through His death. And yes I have asked God for wisdom and He gives it to me gradually and hopefully will continue to till He comes back the second time.But back to this question: How can women save their husbands?
Am curious.. have you ever asked God for Wisdom as James said and read the Bible.. or do you just pull out clobber passages as a fallen not born again Adam would out of the Bible to bash Christian women and put them back under the curse for your own fleeting mortality and ego?
Why don't we read 1 Corinthians 7 from verse 10 to verse 16 to understand what Paul is is saying.THIS IS HOW:
1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband.
1 Peter 3:1-6
They may be won, its no guarantee they will. Some are never won because of the hardness of their hearts.Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct.
Its you who has completely misunderstood scripture here. In order to come to the conclusion you have come to, you have to disregard a lot of God's Word which you've done. These scriptures do not mean women should not submit men.Quite obviously- you have a wrong understanding of who the wives are obeying as husbands in this teaching- as it says that their own husbands are not obeying the word and that their own husbands can be saved by their actions following the true husbands of the church- not built of wood or stone but a body of living stones with Christ being the chief corner stone.
Nothing I post about the Bible and God is ever facetious. You still haven't shown me actual scripture that says the Holy Spirit is female. Your rant won't change my mind except for actual scripture.Well- firstly- that is not true that the scripture does not tell us the gender of the Holy Spirit. On many levels.. am not sure if your are being facetious here or not on many levels. Because first of all- it does. In the Tanakh/Torah the Holy Spirit is feminine Hebrew. And even personalized as a woman in the Book of Proverbs. In the Greek- the word Pneuma is a neuter noun- Greek does not have male female meanings attached to their words like in Hebrew (or Aramaic). So in the NT- in Greek- the word spirit is an 'It.' However- Constantine and the Romans ignored the Tanakh and Torah and changed the 'it' to a 'he'- and not a 'she'. But you claim that even this scripture in (mis)translation does not even have a gender for the Holy Spirit. How can this be? BTW- 'the Holy Spirit of understanding (Wisdom) that Jesus says will be sent to teach all things at the proper time is clearly a SHE in the Book of Proverbs- as well as the Ruach hovering over the waters in Genesis that was with God during the creation in Hebrew. That is ELOHIM. Our Mother and Father. Whom Adam and Eve were created in the image of. And quick question.. considering that it is physically impossible for 2 males to have a child.. and that God said let US created man and women in OUR image.. how can the Father and the Holy Spirit (as a 'he' in the (mis)translation of the Bible-) have a baby? As far as I know.. that requires a male and female. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That's fine, my response is long too but I couldn't let a falsity about what God intended for men and women continue even though its off topic.Anyways.. my apologies to all for following certain members going off topic on this thread.. I initially clicked to comment on OP. Then I saw all of this and responded first. I really wanted to respond to OP- and will. It's just that I'm going to need some time to put that together.. because it is a long response.