Pope Francis - Man of Mystery

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
A woman should not assume the office of a pastor or elder within the church,

That's what Popey says-



But the catholic church has got satan's fingerprints all over it, so we should disregard what they say.
I'm sure Satan is chuckling in delight whenever anybody says women can't be pastors, because it's a satanic sexist notion and must put thousands of ordinary women off Christianity.
Personally I think women should be given the chance to become pastors, but if they turn out to be useless, the congregation should get rid of them, just as they should get rid of any useless male pastors..:)
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
That's what Popey says-



But the catholic church has got satan's fingerprints all over it, so we should disregard what they say.
I'm sure Satan is chuckling in delight whenever anybody says women can't be pastors, because it's a satanic sexist notion and must put thousands of ordinary women off Christianity.
Personally I think women should be given the chance to become pastors, but if they turn out to be useless, the congregation should get rid of them, just as they should get rid of any useless male pastors..:)
I follow the Word of God not the pope or any other human even though they may say something in common with me. Women and men have different roles biblically. That doesn't make women less than men. God knows best.
 
Last edited:

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Alcohol even in small quantities destroys brain cells every time someone drinks..
Some years ago some naughty women tried to get me drunk at an office party and I went along with it to be a good sport and as an experiment.
At first I noticed the earth's axis had developed a pronounced tilt and I couldn't walk straight, and then I began to feel as if I was pleasantly wrapped up in cotton wool like a baby in a thick comfort blanket.
But I also felt as if my consciousness no longer extended out into the universe and was confined to just the four walls of the room and I couldn't think properly.
So I was glad when I'd sobered up next day and got my brain back, and hopefully hadn't lost too many brain cells..:)
 

Stephania

Star
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
1,287
Remember it was Paul who banned women from churches, not Jesus..:p
Paul did not ban women. His words have been misconstrued as he is buffeted by a thorn in his side by Satan. He was teaching that wives in the church be Christ like and submit to Christ as the husbandman to help their husbands- and likewise husbands be Christ like and submit to Christ as the husbandman to help their wives. "One in Christ & God.". Sadly these days.. the Evil One ("One in Anti-Christ & Satan") is better at 'oneness' than Christians and other faiths of God's people- 'The (supposed) Righteous One'. May God fix this soon in the name of Yeshua (Jesus).
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
Paul did not ban women.

I know, I should have said that Paul welcomed women into church but banned them from speaking in church..:)-
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Cor 14:34/35)

So as a matter of interest can you and the other ladies in VC explain to us exactly WHY Paul (and God?) were against women speaking in church? Weren't they up to the job or what?
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
I know, I should have said that Paul welcomed women into church but banned them from speaking in church..:)-
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Cor 14:34/35)

So as a matter of interest can you and the other ladies in VC explain to us exactly WHY Paul (and God?) were against women speaking in church? Weren't they up to the job or what?
You've misunderstood what Paul meant again. Remember we have got to compare scripture with scripture. Paul explains better what he meant in 1 Timothy 2:8–15 about women not speaking in church.

"I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control."

Paul did not mean women should not say anything or be absolutely quiet in church. He meant that women should not teach or exercise authority over men. Women are not to exert spiritual authority and/or instruct men as leaders would. In the Bible women are to minister the word of God just not in the same way as men.
 

Stephania

Star
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
1,287
I know, I should have said that Paul welcomed women into church but banned them from speaking in church..:)-
"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Cor 14:34/35)

So as a matter of interest can you and the other ladies in VC explain to us exactly WHY Paul (and God?) were against women speaking in church? Weren't they up to the job or what?
I'm not going to get too deep into the thorn in Paul's side with the mistranslations from the greek with you that add to the thorn with your "Pauline" hate. I've said all that there is to say on this issue- but even in the english translation of KJV 1611 Paul says that WOMEN CAN SAVE HUSBANDS by following Christ because they can be more Christ like than their husbands. If something contradicts itself- you cannot have the right understanding. Further study is required in linguistics.
 

Stephania

Star
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
1,287
You've misunderstood what Paul meant again. Remember we have got to compare scripture with scripture. Paul explains better what he meant in 1 Timothy 2:8–15 about women not speaking in church.

"I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control."

Paul did not mean women should not say anything or be absolutely quiet in church. He meant that women should not teach or exercise authority over men. Women are not to exert spiritual authority and/or instruct men as leaders would. In the Bible women are to minister the word of God just not in the same way as men.
Actually, that's wrong too. He meant let the women in the church (living stones.. not church buildings) be in obedience to Christ and not authority over Christ. Then he explains that in this way they can save their husbands. lol- not in authority to sinful men in church buildings. BTW- the Holy Spirit of Wisdom is female in the OT and in the NT Jesus calls her his mother and says that she's justified by her children. Just letting you know.. lol
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
your "Pauline" hate..
You've misunderstood what Paul meant again..

Steph, I don't hate Paul, and you're wrong in thinking that, so you might be wrong in other things too.. :p

Phipps, Paul said women are not allowed to teach in church, there's nothing to misunderstand about that..:p
Personally I don't mind if women preach in church so I was hoping you ladies could tell me why exactly Paul said they can't?
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
Actually, that's wrong too. He meant let the women in the church (living stones.. not church buildings) be in obedience to Christ and not authority over Christ. Then he explains that in this way they can save their husbands. lol- not in authority to sinful men in church buildings. BTW- the Holy Spirit of Wisdom is female in the OT and in the NT Jesus calls her his mother and says that she's justified by her children. Just letting you know.. lol
Actually, that's wrong too. He meant let the women in the church (living stones.. not church buildings) be in obedience to Christ and not authority over Christ.
That's not what he meant at all. Have you read everything that the Bible has to say about marriage? It is God who said women should be submissive to their husbands after Adam and Even sinned in the garden of sin.

Genesis 3:16, "To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” What I said is exactly what Paul meant and that's because he knew what God said about women submitting to their husbands.

Then he explains that in this way they can save their husbands. lol- not in authority to sinful men in church buildings.
How can women save their husbands? Christ saves us all and no one can save anyone. That is not biblical. Women biblically are to be submissive to their husbands as I've posted above. Husbands are to be Christlike. They are to be servant-leaders in the home the same way Jesus came to love, serve, and lead His church. Husbands are to love their families so much so that they can die for their them just as Christ died for us.

"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband" (Ephesians 5:22-33). If men and women fulfil their roles as outlined in the Bible, they'll serve God better.

BTW- the Holy Spirit of Wisdom is female in the OT and in the NT Jesus calls her his mother and says that she's justified by her children. Just letting you know.. lol
Please show me scripture that says that because as far as I know the Bible does not tell us the gender of the Holy Spirit. All I need is biblical proof then I will know for sure.
 
Last edited:

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
Phipps, Paul said women are not allowed to teach in church, there's nothing to misunderstand about that..:p
Personally I don't mind if women preach in church so I was hoping you ladies could tell me why exactly Paul said they can't?
Paul meant women can't teach men in church. In church women can teach other women and children. Women can teach in many other ways. In fact, women are commanded to explain the gospel to everyone, including lost men (Acts 18:26). In church women can discuss spiritual matters but not in an authoritative position. Men can learn a lot from women from discussions and apply them in their lives. Women have important roles in church and are very much needed and are as important as men.

All throughout the Bible women have ministered in many different ways. Some in leadership positions when it was needed. Here are a few examples.

Deborah was a judge of Israel (Judges 4:4); Huldah and Anna were prophetesses (2 Chronicles 34:22; Luke 2:36); Priscilla was active in evangelism (Acts 18:26); and Pheobe was a deaconess (Romans 16:1).

Women also played a prominent role in the ministry of and to Jesus (Matthew 28:1–10; Luke 8:3; 23:49; John 11:1–46; 12:1–8).

Furthermore, no spiritual gift is limited to men in the lists in the New Testament (1 Corinthians 12:27-31; Romans 12:3-8; 1 Peter 4:8-11), and women were commanded to edify the body of Christ, which included teaching other women (Titus 2:3-4) and prophecy (Acts 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5).

Acts 2:17-18, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy."
 

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
I already have posted Paul's reasoning for you several times. You are freely and openly admitting that:
1. You fully understand women are not to teach in church according to the Bible, but...
2. You still reject God's command because you personally think it's ok for women to teach in church.
You have placed your opinion above God. What more is there to say?

Like I said, Paul was only referring to the noisy chatterbox women in the early churches and he had to tell them to shut their traps.. :p
Nowadays there are thousands of enlightened women clergy who know it..:)

Church of England women-
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
I know, so you keep saying.
But I'm trying to find out exactly WHY he said women can't teach in church; are women inferior to men or what?
It all began after man sinned. The woman's punishment was the man would rule over her. Genesis 3:16, "To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” This is something that God established in Eden, and it's still or should still be in effect today. So women cannot be elders or pastors because to be in those positions men have to be ordained. There's no example in the Bible anywhere of God ordaining a woman in the capacity of pastor or elder or in the Old Testament as a priest. God established men to be the servant leaders in their families and in church just as Christ was and is a servant leader. No one is inferior in God's eyes however. We may have different roles in the home and in ministry but no one, no gender, no one's standing in life makes anyone of us inferior in God's eyes.
 
Last edited:

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
Exactly... great point, Red.

I want to point this out because it is important--> ref Exodus 32:6
If this was the order in which the children of Israel had proceeded, we must assume they were not in their right minds.

1. drank alcohol
2. stripped themselves naked and​
3. worshiped a golden calf​
That isnt how it happened, though-- it was well-planned.

1. ... they rose early on the next day​
2. offered burnt offerings, and​
3. brought peace offerings; and​
4. the people sat down to eat and drink, and​
5. rose up to play (engage in pagan revelry).​
EXODUS 32:6 NKJV
Wine did not cause this-- if it was, in fact, wine (how does one get wine, wandering in the desert, anyway?)

Based on the interlinear, they could have been drinking anything--> water... or even blood.

But even if it was wine, it doesn't matter-- this was not a spontaneous, drunken orgy that transpired after everyone got loaded.

On the contrary, they made a conscious decision to reject Jehovah; they sacrificed to strange gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.* That was the great transgression-- the booze (again, questionable) just happened to follow.

* JEREMIAH 1:16
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,193
True, none of those things make anyone Christian. Its about if we have Christ in our hearts. If His Word is written in our hearts. If we love Him and have accepted Him as our personal Saviour, accepted His free gift of salvation and are obedient to Him. When we love Christ we obey Him. We want to please Him. We don't want to hurt Him. The Bible teaches that true love of God doesn’t exist without obedience. Nor can a person be truly obedient without a love and appreciation for God. True love of God and obedience are intertwined. We cannot have one without the other. If we separate them, its death. We shouldn't drink alcohol, cuss and we should be baptised as evidence that we have been saved by Jesus Christ (James 2:20-26) and we love Him..

John 14:23, 24, “Jesus answered ... ‘If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word ... He who does not love Me does not keep My words'. ”

John 15:10, 11, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love. ... These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.”

1 John 5:3, “This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.”
 
Last edited:

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,803
John 14:23, 24, “Jesus answered ... ‘If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word ... He who does not love Me does not keep My words'. ”

Jesus said we should buy swords, shall we do that?
"..and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one" (Luke 22:38)
 
Top