Pope Francis - Man of Mystery

Red Sky at Morning

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Pope, Morocco's king, say Jerusalem must be place of peaceful coexistence


Pope Francis is received by Morocco's King Mohammed VI upon his arrival in the capital Rabat, Morocco, March 30, 2019. (photo credit: VATICAN MEDIA / REUTERS)

RABAT- Pope Francis and Morocco's King Mohammed VI called on Saturday for the protection of Jerusalem's multi-religious character, saying the city's sacred sites must be accessible to worshipers of all faiths.

In a joint appeal signed on the first day of Francis' visit to Rabat, the pope and the monarch said they were "deeply concerned for its spiritual significance and its special vocation as a city of peace."

Since U.S. President Donald Trump announced Washington's decision to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem in 2017, the pope, other Christian leaders and Muslim heads of state have stepped up their expressions of concern for the city.

"We consider it important to preserve the Holy City of Jerusalem / Al-Quds Acharif as the common patrimony of humanity and especially for the followers of the three monotheistic religions, as a place of encounter and as a symbol of peaceful coexistence, where mutual respect and dialog can be cultivated," said the joint appeal, using the Arab name for Jerusalem.
 

Vytas

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Red Sky at Morning

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Pope Francis said that Jerusalem should be a "symbol of peaceful coexistence" for Christians, Jews and Muslims

Pope Francis said on Saturday that Jerusalem should be a "symbol of peaceful coexistence" for Christians, Jews and Muslims, said a statement signed jointly by the pontiff and Morocco King Mohammed VI.

The Pope said he considers it "important to preserve" the Holy City of Jerusalem "as the common patrimony of humanity and especially the followers of the three monotheistic religions, as a place of encounter and as a symbol of peaceful coexistence, where mutual respect and dialogue can be cultivated,” the statement, released by the Vatican said.

The Moroccan king chairs a committee, created by Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, responsible for safeguarding and restoring Jerusalem's religious, cultural and architectural heritage.

Palestinians see east Jerusalem, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, as the capital of a future independent state, while Israel sees the entire city as its capital.

In May, the US moved its embassy from Tel Aviv to the disputed holy city, following a declaration by President Donald Trump's administration in December to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, turning his back on decades of US policy

The decision angered the Muslim world and was seen as setback for Palestinian aspirations for statehood and an obstacle to the peace process in the region.

Since then, other countries followed suit and said they would recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, including Romania and Honduras.

Follow us on Twitter: @The_NewArab

Like this article? Read more and stay up to date at: newarab.co.uk
 
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Pope Francis said that Jerusalem should be a "symbol of peaceful coexistence" for Christians, Jews and Muslims

Pope Francis said on Saturday that Jerusalem should be a "symbol of peaceful coexistence" for Christians, Jews and Muslims, said a statement signed jointly by the pontiff and Morocco King Mohammed VI.

The Pope said he considers it "important to preserve" the Holy City of Jerusalem "as the common patrimony of humanity and especially the followers of the three monotheistic religions, as a place of encounter and as a symbol of peaceful coexistence, where mutual respect and dialogue can be cultivated,” the statement, released by the Vatican said.

The Moroccan king chairs a committee, created by Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, responsible for safeguarding and restoring Jerusalem's religious, cultural and architectural heritage.

Palestinians see east Jerusalem, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, as the capital of a future independent state, while Israel sees the entire city as its capital.

In May, the US moved its embassy from Tel Aviv to the disputed holy city, following a declaration by President Donald Trump's administration in December to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, turning his back on decades of US policy

The decision angered the Muslim world and was seen as setback for Palestinian aspirations for statehood and an obstacle to the peace process in the region.

Since then, other countries followed suit and said they would recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, including Romania and Honduras.

Follow us on Twitter: @The_NewArab

Like this article? Read more and stay up to date at: newarab.co.uk

Shouldn’t it be though? If the big three religions believe they have something to offer people they should be able to show it by sharing one city.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Shouldn’t it be though? If the big three religions believe they have something to offer people they should be able to show it by sharing one city.
If you were to take a utilitarian view and believe that the actual truth of things was bigger than any one of these religions, you could certainly take the position that the three monotheistic religions (politely forgetting bigoted statements like “the way, the truth and the life” should learn to coexist.

The fact that such a religious detente appears to be prophetically anticipated is not wasted on those who believe the Biblical account is more than good ancient poetry.
 
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do you think the 'sons of god' in the bible, the ones who came from the sky, were fallen angels?
they were aliens mate
humanoid giant aliens.
like the movie Prometheus.

They weren't spirit beings.
What we see in the spirit world, is their astral counterpart, because the astral plane is a shared/cosmic plane where consciousness interacts.

the religious narrative on 'spirits' both angelic and demonic who are hidden yet can come into our world are just ancient interpretations of things they didnt understand.
 

Axl888

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Well...
If only you were aware of the teachings of Jesus in the first place.

1) Jesus said make your eye single. This literally meant to be open to the presence of God in all things or to see the One in all. God is immanent everywhere.

2) when the apostle asked Jesus to show them God, Jesus referred to what was in him Inc the miracles as proof of God. But you Christians misinterpreted this to literally means Jesus himself is God. Rather than to realise in consistency with the concept of Gods Immanence...that God was immanent via the logos that was incarnated in Jesus.

3) to the pure all things are pure. Again this is consistent with what Jesus said about the single eye.
So with this in mind ...seeing God in Jesus again as you have quoted does not make Jesus God.
I can see God in the sky..in plants..in trees...in animals...in people...in the ground...in the air....in myself...
Yet none of these things are God. God is Immanent in all things.

4) so Jesus wouldn't rebuke Thomas if he was aware of the inner perspective of Thomas. Just like Jesus would not rebuke me if I see God in him.

In the state of 'absorption' (as Sufis call it) of God awareness...people say such things.
It is an enlightened perspective that must not be taken literally.

Moses heard God in the burning bush. Doesn't make the bush, God.

5) see whatever you think...my viewpoint remains consistent with the entire Bible and entire new testament. It means even the most mystical parts of it Inc John 1:1 can easily be explained by me. At least in my mind there is a valid explanation.

Your perspective however leaves holes. As I pointed out many times before....Jesus said he doesn't know the last hour..yet you say he is fully God in the flesh.
He said the son can do nothing himself except it's the Father doing it through him.

T
The nature and relationship of God The Son (Jesus Christ=The Word) and God The Father is analogous to a body of a man (one person, one substance), as such that in order for the body to act, an order/thought must come first from the brain, hence, the part of the body that do the work and speak is Jesus Christ (God The Son=The Word=God), while the part of the body that thinks/decides (the brain) and see (the eyes) is God The Father Almighty.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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do you think the 'sons of god' in the bible, the ones who came from the sky, were fallen angels?
they were aliens mate
humanoid giant aliens.
like the movie Prometheus.

They weren't spirit beings.
What we see in the spirit world, is their astral counterpart, because the astral plane is a shared/cosmic plane where consciousness interacts.

the religious narrative on 'spirits' both angelic and demonic who are hidden yet can come into our world are just ancient interpretations of things they didnt understand.
I am not unfamiliar with that perspective @AspiringSoul ;-)

 
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The nature and relationship of God The Son (Jesus Christ=The Word) and God The Father is analogous to a body of a man (one person, one substance), as such that in order for the body to act, an order/thought must come first from the brain, hence, the part of the body that do the work and speak is Jesus Christ (God The Son=The Word=God), while the part of the body that thinks/decides (the brain) and see (the eyes) is God The Father Almighty.
The reason why this is an ignorant statement is because the body requires air and food. It needs something external to sustain itself.
God is free from any need.
The other reason is because the quality of air and the food also affects the body aswell as the brain. You could swallow poison and it would damage the brain.

What kind of Christian refuses to study the origins of the concept of Logos? I've never seen a Christian talk about Philo on this forum or someone like Plotinus, neither of whom were christian, who formulated the theory of the trinity and influenced Christianity.

Philo studied the Greek Logos idea and said "aha...that's a lot like our Image of God in the Torah"
Then he symbolically referred to the Logos as the Only Son of God.
He used Hellenised Judaic terminology.
The Greek concept of Logos was taken from Persian philosopher's which came from Indian philosopher's. That's not a guess it's an absolute fact. The logos was the universal conciousness. It was seen as the expression of God.
Not by itself God's Immanence, but rather a prism through which God's Essence reveals attributes.

The nature of conciousness was that there's a single power..call it an Essence that is expressed through the universal conciousness.
The UC is perfect on its own and in a state of timeless bliss. The state which Jesus referred to as I Am.
However the next phase of conciousness is for that one UC to emerge into many conciousnesses...
In Indian philosophy the 0 represents Inifnite ie the UC. The numbers are expressions of 0.

Now the transition from the 0 to the origin of numbers is the same as causation. It is the origin of time and origin of every created thing.

The original power, the Essence reveals attributes through the Logos to enable creation. The logos itself does nothing..it's the essence playing the role of the Creator God through the Logos and overseeing creation.
Think of the UC/logos as an infinite ocean..and every individual spirit such as yourself as a drop from that ocean. The drop is a microcosm of the UC and it is also connected to the Essence in the same way the UC is.
Whilst the Essence played the role of Creator and Overseer at the UC level...in the individual is plays a different role..unique to each individual.

St Augustine came to Christianity when it was being Influenced by the ideas of Plotinus. He wrote a book called On the Trinity. It was kind of based off Philos version of the trinity.
In then, the entire Catholic church was influenced by these ideas until they became doctrine. But they are ancient truths.
Even in Islam this ancient truth is expressed in the words
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem

The Essence itself is the true Transcendent power of God...and God is Immanenent through the ocean and the drop..the macrocosm and microcosm
Bismillah means In the name of Allah/God
IrRahman refers to God's attribute as The All-Merciful. IrRaheem refers to God bestowing that Mercy eg creation.
It is the Essence, the macrocosm and microcosm.

Now the process of our spiritual descent from the Ocean into the drop and then to the body...and the over spiritual ascent/return is reason for creation. We were not just created to remain seperate but for each drop to emerge as an individual expression of the Essence with its own unique story and then it's spiritual ascent back home..to.realise it is not a drop but the ocean itself.

Based on this idea..the the ancients had an idea that occasionally when humanity is stuck, the Ocean/universal conciousness Incarnates to remind people. In hinduism this was the incarnations or Vishnu(the Hindu version of the Logos) such as Krishna and Rama.
The idea of the incarnation didn't exist in the old testament...it was a Hellenised development that came from India as I said.

The Logos/UC/macrocosm is ALL things.
The holy spirit is within us.

Eg God is Immanent in All things and within ourselves.

St Augustine wrote
"God is the Lover, the Beloved and the Love between them"
That became a core Sufi belief.
In this analogy...LOVE is the attribute of God's Immanence, the Lover and beloved can be taken both ways as the Ocean and the drop or the drop and the ocean since there is a calling on both sides.

So when you say the word "Son" you are foolishly limiting this exclusively to Jesus. In your mind you only think of Jesus...whereas the Son is ALL things.
In him, by him and through him are ALL things.
The Son incarnated in Jesus Christ in the same way it did in Krishna and Rama.
The Christians lost touch with the original idea and just worship the Jewish baby Jesus.
When Jesus taught about the single eye...he meant.."See ONENESS in ALL things"

Yet you only see God in Jesus so what's the point?
The Immanence of God is in everything...good or bad. God's unique relationship with people is their own journey.

Also in your analogy there's no room for the holy spirit. The holy spirit is in every person...the highest level of our individual conciousness.
According to the trinitarian doctrine...the holy spirit is just as much God as the Son
Is.
The substance is the Essence itself. It is the same Essence that animates the logos and the holy spirit.
However only the Father (the Essence) is the Transcendent power.
The logos and holy spirit are not the Transcendent Essence.
The Essence plays the role of God in both but it refers to the immanent aspect of God not His Trancendence.
Yet most Christians don't even take this intro account when they bang on about "Jesus is derp LORD God"

John 1:1 refers to God's Trancendence and Inmanence
The Word was With God refers to God's Trancendence.
The Word IS God refers to God's Immanence.
To then make this exclusively about Jesus as your man-god misses the point.
Again, God is Immanent in ALL things..

The invisible Father is made known through the Son. Eg the Transcendent Essence reveals itself through it's Expression, the Logos.
Since we are all from the logos...drops of it...this extends to all of us through the Holy spirit

It doesn't mean we are God. But God is Immanent in us.

"To the pure, all things are pure"
If you only see God in Jesus or Jesus as God and everything else as false...then you've missed the entire point.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25:35-40&version=NKJV
 

Axl888

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The reason why this is an ignorant statement is because the body requires air and food. It needs something external to sustain itself.
God is free from any need.
The other reason is because the quality of air and the food also affects the body aswell as the brain. You could swallow poison and it would damage the brain.

What kind of Christian refuses to study the origins of the concept of Logos? I've never seen a Christian talk about Philo on this forum or someone like Plotinus, neither of whom were christian, who formulated the theory of the trinity and influenced Christianity.

Philo studied the Greek Logos idea and said "aha...that's a lot like our Image of God in the Torah"
Then he symbolically referred to the Logos as the Only Son of God.
He used Hellenised Judaic terminology.
The Greek concept of Logos was taken from Persian philosopher's which came from Indian philosopher's. That's not a guess it's an absolute fact. The logos was the universal conciousness. It was seen as the expression of God.
Not by itself God's Immanence, but rather a prism through which God's Essence reveals attributes.

The nature of conciousness was that there's a single power..call it an Essence that is expressed through the universal conciousness.
The UC is perfect on its own and in a state of timeless bliss. The state which Jesus referred to as I Am.
However the next phase of conciousness is for that one UC to emerge into many conciousnesses...
In Indian philosophy the 0 represents Inifnite ie the UC. The numbers are expressions of 0.

Now the transition from the 0 to the origin of numbers is the same as causation. It is the origin of time and origin of every created thing.

The original power, the Essence reveals attributes through the Logos to enable creation. The logos itself does nothing..it's the essence playing the role of the Creator God through the Logos and overseeing creation.
Think of the UC/logos as an infinite ocean..and every individual spirit such as yourself as a drop from that ocean. The drop is a microcosm of the UC and it is also connected to the Essence in the same way the UC is.
Whilst the Essence played the role of Creator and Overseer at the UC level...in the individual is plays a different role..unique to each individual.

St Augustine came to Christianity when it was being Influenced by the ideas of Plotinus. He wrote a book called On the Trinity. It was kind of based off Philos version of the trinity.
In then, the entire Catholic church was influenced by these ideas until they became doctrine. But they are ancient truths.
Even in Islam this ancient truth is expressed in the words
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem

The Essence itself is the true Transcendent power of God...and God is Immanenent through the ocean and the drop..the macrocosm and microcosm
Bismillah means In the name of Allah/God
IrRahman refers to God's attribute as The All-Merciful. IrRaheem refers to God bestowing that Mercy eg creation.
It is the Essence, the macrocosm and microcosm.

Now the process of our spiritual descent from the Ocean into the drop and then to the body...and the over spiritual ascent/return is reason for creation. We were not just created to remain seperate but for each drop to emerge as an individual expression of the Essence with its own unique story and then it's spiritual ascent back home..to.realise it is not a drop but the ocean itself.

Based on this idea..the the ancients had an idea that occasionally when humanity is stuck, the Ocean/universal conciousness Incarnates to remind people. In hinduism this was the incarnations or Vishnu(the Hindu version of the Logos) such as Krishna and Rama.
The idea of the incarnation didn't exist in the old testament...it was a Hellenised development that came from India as I said.

The Logos/UC/macrocosm is ALL things.
The holy spirit is within us.

Eg God is Immanent in All things and within ourselves.

St Augustine wrote
"God is the Lover, the Beloved and the Love between them"
That became a core Sufi belief.
In this analogy...LOVE is the attribute of God's Immanence, the Lover and beloved can be taken both ways as the Ocean and the drop or the drop and the ocean since there is a calling on both sides.

So when you say the word "Son" you are foolishly limiting this exclusively to Jesus. In your mind you only think of Jesus...whereas the Son is ALL things.
In him, by him and through him are ALL things.
The Son incarnated in Jesus Christ in the same way it did in Krishna and Rama.
The Christians lost touch with the original idea and just worship the Jewish baby Jesus.
When Jesus taught about the single eye...he meant.."See ONENESS in ALL things"

Yet you only see God in Jesus so what's the point?
The Immanence of God is in everything...good or bad. God's unique relationship with people is their own journey.

Also in your analogy there's no room for the holy spirit. The holy spirit is in every person...the highest level of our individual conciousness.
According to the trinitarian doctrine...the holy spirit is just as much God as the Son
Is.
The substance is the Essence itself. It is the same Essence that animates the logos and the holy spirit.
However only the Father (the Essence) is the Transcendent power.
The logos and holy spirit are not the Transcendent Essence.
The Essence plays the role of God in both but it refers to the immanent aspect of God not His Trancendence.
Yet most Christians don't even take this intro account when they bang on about "Jesus is derp LORD God"

John 1:1 refers to God's Trancendence and Inmanence
The Word was With God refers to God's Trancendence.
The Word IS God refers to God's Immanence.
To then make this exclusively about Jesus as your man-god misses the point.
Again, God is Immanent in ALL things..

The invisible Father is made known through the Son. Eg the Transcendent Essence reveals itself through it's Expression, the Logos.
Since we are all from the logos...drops of it...this extends to all of us through the Holy spirit

It doesn't mean we are God. But God is Immanent in us.

"To the pure, all things are pure"
If you only see God in Jesus or Jesus as God and everything else as false...then you've missed the entire point.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25:35-40&version=NKJV
It was just an analogy, I did not say that the Godhead has physical body...Oh well, I guess you did not get what I mean.
 
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It was just an analogy, I did not say that the Godhead has physical body...Oh well, I guess you did not get what I mean.
I got what you mean, ive heard it before. The first explanation i ever heard was 'water can be liquid, gas/steam or solid/ice' but it is poor in terms of relating to God from our perspective. How does it apply to us, where do we fit into the equation?
did you actually read everything else though or do you prefer not acknowledging other perspectives?
 

Axl888

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I got what you mean, ive heard it before. The first explanation i ever heard was 'water can be liquid, gas/steam or solid/ice' but it is poor in terms of relating to God from our perspective. How does it apply to us, where do we fit into the equation?
did you actually read everything else though or do you prefer not acknowledging other perspectives?
My first post was actually intended to address your statement "Your perspective however leaves holes. As I pointed out many times before....Jesus said he doesn't know the last hour..yet you say he is fully God in the flesh. He said the son can do nothing himself except it's the Father doing it through him."

It can be explained by understanding how the world/universe was created. The world/universe was created by God through his Word (He spoke it into existence), and the Word of God was/is Jesus Christ, John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It was God The Father who conceived the idea of the creation and decided (His Will) to put it in existence, and the Word (God The Son=Jesus Christ) made it happen as The Father spoke it into existence. Like a body of a man (one person, one substance), the brain has to first conceive the idea of certain action before the other parts of the body do the action as the brain intended it to do. So indeed, Jesus doesn't know the last hour, unless God The Father reveals it to Him.

And why the analogy with man is relevant? Because God created man from Their own image.
 
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My first post was actually intended to address your statement "Your perspective however leaves holes. As I pointed out many times before....Jesus said he doesn't know the last hour..yet you say he is fully God in the flesh. He said the son can do nothing himself except it's the Father doing it through him."

It can be explained by understanding how the world/universe was created. The world/universe was created by God through his Word (He spoke it into existence), and the Word of God was/is Jesus Christ, John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It was God The Father who conceived the idea of the creation and decided (His Will) to put it in existence, and the Word (God The Son=Jesus Christ) made it happen as The Father spoke it into existence. Like a body of a man (one person, one substance), the brain has to first conceive the idea of certain action before the other parts of the body do the action as the brain intended it to do. So indeed, Jesus doesn't know the last hour, unless God The Father reveals it to Him.

And why the analogy with man is relevant? Because God created man from Their own image.
The Word wasn't spoken into existence....it is timeless and has no beginning.
The way I understand it in this way...
There is nothing past present or future that God doesn't already know. God is eternal therefore everything He knows is eternal. The entire creation exists in His knowledge by extension all things are also eternal.
That is the logos...where all things exist in eternal and timeless state.
If for example you imagine God deciding something..then that means Godhead to be subject to time in order to make a decision since decision making is a linear process.
God is above that.

I do wish any Christian here would be willing to accept the truth that the concept of Logos originates from the concept of Vishnu the universal conciousness in hinduism.
The example i gave was that the logos is the 0 which represents infinity whilst creation/origin is the 1 and every number coming into manifestation.

Also, the Word was made flesh. The incarnation. However it is quite a gross thing to insist on calling the Word "Jesus". We are ALL the logos...everything...the logos is everything. It may have incarnated in Jesus but it has incarnated in many people before. The story of Krishna is 5000 yrs old.
It is a joke for Christians to only worship the Jewish story and act like it is all there ever was. Truth is far bigger than being limited to the Bible and abrahimic story.

In hinduism they are mostly pantheists. Where a abrahimic theology via Islam gets the upper hand is in acknowledging the difference between God's Trancendence and Immance.
Since you Christians think the logos is absolutely fully God and do not even seem to know about Trancendence and Immance...
What happens when the NT reveals the the Word is everything? "For in him and through him all things exist"?
Answer: change the topic...pretend...just make some alternative answer that isn't even consistent.

Jesus speaking as the logos...as the metaphorical "son of God" openly states that he can do NOTHING except by the Father.
He says "it is the Father doing it through me"
This is the Immanence of God which is not limited to Jesus but is in ALL things...and that is why the logos is all things.
 
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