Patriarchy is anti-life.

[Aero]

I can tell by your overreactive, exaggerated comment that you are the epitome of who should NOT be spanking their kids.

You are probably just a teenager that was never taught how to write out a thought without profanity & accusatory drivel that you know nothing about.

What you are doing is called self-rationalization. You have convinced yourself that it's normal. And I don't exaggerate. I just want you to know how serious I am. When my siblings and I got in trouble (25 years ago) it wasn't about discipline. My dad was just pissed and going beast mode on us.

For the record my Dad is a great guy. He isn't a drunk, or that angry. He just snaps like a beast. We didn't learn shit from that. Oh I learned how to drop him on his ass. Because I'm like a million times faster than him now. My dad never really came at me though. The last thing I think he wants is to actually hurt anyone.

An angry beating and yelling at your kids isn't effective discipline. There is little logic behind it, except it happened to people. It happened to some of us so that makes it ok? Like what? I thought I was Mr Twilight Zone. But I didn't make that shit up. There is a huge fucking difference between anger/rage and discipline. It's not rocket science.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

lol

Pretty much.

lol

Pretty much.

LOL!!

 

[Glad 2 know]

No one should be spanking their kids. Decades of research has found it ineffective and potentialy detrimental.

Its crazy that we seem to think assaulting a child is ok. What we allow to be done to children if done to anyone else would be assault, to an animal is abuse.

But its legal when done in a certain way so if your going to do it atleast stay within the parameters - parameters put in place to balance a childs right to live a life free from violence towards them and a parents right to run their home how they see fit.

WELL PUT

I wish I was taught, instead of beat, in all honesty and I don't condone spanking, beating nor abusing. Kids that grow up thinking mild violence is ok, will most likely think that bigger and uglier violence is ok. Parents are indifferent to the pain and suffering of their kids and then those kids will very likely grow up indifferent to other's people's feelings too.

I'm sorry Claire that you justify putting hands on children, even mildly. Justifying what our parents did doesn't do any good. Acknowledging the fact that they tried to discipline us in their way, (not the best one) because they cared is ok. They didn't know nor think any better.

Justifying violence against children is never ok, no matter how much one tries to sugar coat it. No matter how much this wrong custom has been passed down generation after generation doesn't make it ok.

Parents need to give children love, guidance, wisdom, protection, firm discipline, constancy and affection.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

What you are doing is called self-rationalization. You have convinced yourself that it's normal. And I don't exaggerate. I just want you to know how serious I am. When my siblings and I got in trouble (25 years ago) it wasn't about discipline. My dad was just pissed and going beast mode on us.

For the record my Dad is a great guy. He isn't a drunk, or that angry. He just snaps like a beast. We didn't learn shit from that. Oh I learned how to drop him on his ass. Because I'm like a million times faster than him now. My dad never really came at me though. The last thing I think he wants is to actually hurt anyone.

An angry beating and yelling at your kids isn't effective discipline. There is little logic behind it, except it happened to people. It happened to some of us so that makes it ok? Like what? I thought I was Mr Twilight Zone. But I didn't make that shit up. There is a huge fucking difference between anger/rage and discipline. It's not rocket science.

I don’t yell at my kids.
I do not spank them when I am angry.
I have never gone beast mode on my kids & neither has my husband.
I do not have an anger/rage problem.
I can’t stand the smell of alcohol, so I do not drink.
I do not use drugs of any kind.
I am not mentally ill.

All 3 of my teenage sons are already way bigger & stronger than me already, and frankly, as a woman that’s 5’7/128 lbs, they could easily subdue or restrain me if they really needed to or wanted to, or felt I was a danger or a threat.

They wouldn’t lay hands on me because I am their MOTHER. They love & respect me & are actually quite protective of me, and I have raised them to never hit a woman.

I have a great relationship with all my children, and they have good judgment, and I trust them.

It seems like yesterday they were toddlers watching Thomas the Train & now my oldest will be going off to college next year.

I’m not ready to let go of him yet, but I also know he’s becoming a young man now, and I don’t want to hold him back from pursuing his own life.

I will keep his room the same though, so he knows he can always come back if he needs to.

They really do grow up SO fast.

Anyway, I’m not sure where this tangent is supposed to be headed, so I am out.

I’ll pray for your Father.

 

[TMT]

Where in history exactly do you claim Christians are forcing our faith on others?

Your view of Christianity is shaped by an article by an ecumenical sellout who claims to be a "Presbyterian Minister"??

That article is bait, written to stir up all the liberal snowflakes out of their safe space.

Here is a bit of advice about Christianity from myself, a Christian:

Not everyone who claims to be Christian, is saved.

Some are, but many are not. Most "Christians" don't give out the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or read the Holy Bible, or live according to the Bible. These are the worldly, Zionist, mega church Freemasons(like Trump & Robertson) that are not saved & are "Christian" businessmen, looking to use the pulpit as a platform of power, politics, wealth & status. (The pope of the Roman Catholic Cult comes to mind).

Many preachers have sold out for fortunes, mansions, book deals & high acclaim, as well as to PURPOSELY & methodically destroy the Biblical doctrines taught by Christ, and are effectively strengthening the kingdom of their true master, satan.

Trump may say he is a Christian, but I don't buy it for a second. He loves money far too much to serve Jesus. I never liked the guy, and he is a sellout, a wicked, power hungry celebrity that would probably knock over a little, old lady just to snatch a penny off a sidewalk.

The political partisan game is a fraud.

There is no truth in it, and the love of money IS the root of ALL evil.

This is just one example but for the vast majority of Christians, their ancestors had it thrust upon them by the sword. Whether it was Europe, Colonial Africa, Colonial India, or the Americas. Not to mention it was used a justification for slavery.
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/converttochristianityordie.html

And before you slander Chris Hedges as a "sellout" read this
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/what-christmas-means/

 

[Claire Rousseau]

WELL PUT

I wish I was taught, instead of beat, in all honesty and I don't condone spanking, beating nor abusing. Kids that grow up thinking mild violence is ok, will most likely think that bigger and uglier violence is ok. Parents are indifferent to the pain and suffering of their kids and then those kids will very likely grow up indifferent to other's people's feelings too.

I'm sorry Claire that you justify putting hands on children, even mildly. Justifying what our parents did doesn't do any good. Acknowledging the fact that they tried to discipline us in their way, (not the best one) because they cared is ok. They didn't know nor think any better.

Justifying violence against children is never ok, no matter how much one tries to sugar coat it. No matter how much this wrong custom has been passed down generation after generation doesn't make it ok.

Parents need to give children love, guidance, wisdom, protection, firm discipline, constancy and affection.

You are completely blowing it out of proportion, and I am over the dramatics.

Rest assured no one is being beaten or abused, and you have your opinion & I have mine, so I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on this subject.

Have a blessed evening.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

This is just one example but for the vast majority of Christians, their ancestors had it thrust upon them by the sword. Whether it was Europe, Colonial Africa, Colonial India, or the Americas. Not to mention it was used a justification for slavery.
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/converttochristianityordie.html

And before you slander Chris Hedges as a "sellout" read this
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/what-christmas-means/

The Crusades were conducted by the Roman Catholic Church, NOT Christians.

Big difference.

 

[Helioform]

Children have to be raised with "a kick in the @ss", my father used to say LOL. He was born in northern Italy and he had German/Austrian genes and those people were very authoritarian back at that period of time when he was born shortly after WW2 - because of the Nazi power elite. I'm not that old (40) , and he might have kicked me once or twice when I was 7 or 8 but after that I understood and stopped acting badly.

Children need some kind of "hard" discipline, and discipline is what is sorely lacking in this generation of Millenials for example. Millenials must seriously be the dumbest/weakest generation ever because mostly of the way they have been raised. And Im almost one too, born roughly 1 or 2 years before that generation so I know what it's like a little.

 

[Aero]

I don’t yell at my kids.
I do not spank them when I am angry.
I have never gone beast mode on my kids & neither has my husband.
I do not have an anger/rage problem.
I can’t stand the smell of alcohol, so I do not drink.
I do not use drugs of any kind.
I am not mentally ill.

All 3 of my teenage sons are already way bigger & stronger than me already, and frankly, as a woman that’s 5’7/128 lbs, they could easily subdue or restrain me if they really needed to or wanted to, or felt I was a danger or a threat.

They wouldn’t lay hands on me because I am their MOTHER. They love & respect me & are actually quite protective of me, and I have raised them to never hit a woman.

I have a great relationship with all my children, and they have good judgment, and I trust them.

It seems like yesterday they were toddlers watching Thomas the Train & now my oldest will be going off to college next year.

I’m not ready to let go of him yet, but I also know he’s becoming a young man now, and I don’t want to hold him back from pursuing his own life.

I will keep his room the same though, so he knows he can always come back if he needs to.

They really do grow up SO fast.

Anyway, I’m not sure where this tangent is supposed to be headed, so I am out.

I’ll pray for your Father.

Huh. That's interesting. I don't recall making any statements about you. If I can cut through your bullshit for a second. I have some honest questions to ask. And I'll keep it short so I don't trigger you on accident.

How do you take this subject matter and make it about you? Obviously we aren't in the same boat. Like I have more leverage to be selfish because I don't have kids. And yet I'm the one saying, maybe we shouldn't create chips in our kids shoulders for no reason.

Is treating people with respect and dignity being a snowflake? Because if so I will make a fucking super soaker that spits snowflakes. And snowflake the shit out of everyone.

 

[elsbet]

Parents need to give children love, guidance, wisdom, protection, firm discipline, constancy and affection.

Unfortunately, that cannot be done by simply adopting a hands off policy, and it is more than a little unfair to imply that it can. God knows how many people damage their children irreparably without ever laying a hand on them.

 

[TMT]

The Crusades were conducted by the Roman Catholic Church, NOT Christians.

Big difference.

Of course you'll say that, but there is more to it than the Crusades, again see the near genocide of Native Americans and not all of that was Catholic, and forced conversion still happens
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/7-christian-pastors-arrested-for-forced-conversions-in-india/120897.htm

even though that's a skewed article.

 

[elsbet]

Of course you'll say that, but there is more to it than the Crusades, again see the near genocide of Native Americans and not all of that was Catholic, and forced conversion still happens
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/7-christian-pastors-arrested-for-forced-conversions-in-india/120897.htm

even though that's a skewed article.

You can't be serious.

 

[TMT]

You can't be serious.

I am serious, Christianity is soaked in blood and everywhere it has spread it has spread by force. It's a religion of slavery, at least when applied literally.

 

[Vytas]

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/7-christian-pastors-arrested-for-forced-conversions-in-india/120897.htm

The pastors had shared the gospel at the gathering and gave out Bibles to some locals who had been invited there.

Those bastards how dare they !!

 

[elsbet]

I am serious, Christianity is soaked in blood and everywhere it has spread it has spread by force. It's a religion of slavery, at least when applied literally.

I was referring to the article you linked, about the missionaries who have been dragged into the political mess and set up via false accusations. The article is not about their guilt.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Huh. That's interesting. I don't recall making any statements about you. If I can cut through your bullshit for a second. I have some honest questions to ask. And I'll keep it short so I don't trigger you on accident.

How do you take this subject matter and make it about you? Obviously we aren't in the same boat. Like I have more leverage to be selfish because I don't have kids. And yet I'm the one saying, maybe we shouldn't create chips in our kids shoulders for no reason.

Is treating people with respect and dignity being a snowflake? Because if so I will make a fucking super soaker that spits snowflakes. And snowflake the shit out of everyone.

This whole spanking issue got started several pages back because justjess assumed I was violently beating my kids without mercy because I mentioned I spank them.

I'm not making it about me, it was made & then everyone who has ever been truly abused has come on acting like I am the female version of Himmler just because I use spanking(spanking, NOT beating) to discipline my sons.

Obviously, I am against child abuse.

But some people on this board cannot differentiate between a parent spanking as a reasonable method of disciplining their child out of love, and cornering them in the closet and beating them unconscious.

What concerns me is that people cannot see the distinction between reasonable, non-injurious spanking and true abuse of children.

That is why so many teens & young adults today have ZERO integrity, zero respect for themselves & their parents/elders, are spoiled rotten, expect everything in life to be handed to them on a silver platter with no questions asked, have no work ethic & think life is just a big, continuous party of self-absorbed self-indulgence, and think they should forsake all responsibility & accountability, & think life will just coddle them and cater to their little world.

Not my boys. They aren't afraid to work hard, get their hands dirty, and follow directions the first time asked. They address their elders with "yes ma'am" & "yes sir" and if they want luxuries in life, they must earn them.

My job is to prepare them to be responsible, contributing members of society, make wise, conscientious decisions, take responsibility for their actions and mistakes, be providers and protectors of their future wife & family, show compassion to the less fortunate, work hard without complaining, respect authority & love God with all of their heart, soul & mind.

I believe that, judging by their actions, behavior & character, that my husband & I have successfully instilled that in them.

 

[Aero]

This whole spanking issue got started several pages back because justjess assumed I was violently beating my kids without mercy because I mentioned I spank them.

I'm not making it about me, it was made & then everyone who has ever been truly abused has come on acting like I am the female version of Himmler just because I use spanking(spanking, NOT beating) to discipline my sons.

Obviously, I am against child abuse.

But some people on this board cannot differentiate between a parent spanking as a reasonable method of disciplining their child out of love, and cornering them in the closet and beating them unconscious.

What concerns me is that people cannot see the distinction between reasonable, non-injurious spanking and true abuse of children.

That is why so many teens & young adults today have ZERO integrity, zero respect for themselves & their parents/elders, are spoiled rotten, expect everything in life to be handed to them on a silver platter with no questions asked, have no work ethic & think life is just a big, continuous party of self-absorbed self-indulgence, and think they should forsake all responsibility & accountability, & think life will just coddle them and cater to their little world.

Not my boys. They aren't afraid to work hard, get their hands dirty, and follow directions the first time asked. They address their elders with "yes ma'am" & "yes sir" and if they want luxuries in life, they must earn them.

My job is to prepare them to be responsible, contributing members of society, make wise, conscientious decisions, take responsibility for their actions and mistakes, be providers and protectors of their future wife & family, show compassion to the less fortunate, work hard without complaining, respect authority & love God with all of their heart, soul & mind.

I believe that, judging by their actions, behavior & character, that my husband & I have successfully instilled that in them.

Thanks for clarifying that. But I wonder if it's your attitude and not any other act itself. Because it's one thing to say yes, I will spank my kids if they fuck up really bad. And another to be so cavalier about it, and to go so far as to say this must be the way it should be done.

Not trying to single you out. You aren't the only one behaving that way. There is just a lot of assumptions being thrown around. Assumptions that aren't really backed up by anything. Like when you describe teens and young adults today, you actually have no idea why they behave that way. There is literally zero connection you can make between childhood discipline and the little snapshot you have of someone's life.

I'm probably not the only one who appreciates a parent who knows their role. But again there is an awful lot of lip service going on here. Until you point to one of your kids, and show us how awesome they turned out. What does any of that even mean? It goes back to what my comment on self rationalization.

I don't think the silver platter is what's creating these monsters out here. It's abuse that's doing that. You can all try to pretend like it's not a big deal, but you are flat out wrong. You are focused on all the wrong things. Like why don't you worry about the people suffering out there? Who really gives a shit if people are selfish assholes? It is what it is. Don't attach things that don't belong there.

 

[Glad 2 know]

I don’t yell at my kids.
I do not spank them when I am angry.
I have never gone beast mode on my kids & neither has my husband.
I do not have an anger/rage problem.
I can’t stand the smell of alcohol, so I do not drink.
I do not use drugs of any kind.
I am not mentally ill.

All 3 of my teenage sons are already way bigger & stronger than me already, and frankly, as a woman that’s 5’7/128 lbs, they could easily subdue or restrain me if they really needed to or wanted to, or felt I was a danger or a threat.

They wouldn’t lay hands on me because I am their MOTHER. They love & respect me & are actually quite protective of me, and I have raised them to never hit a woman.

I have a great relationship with all my children, and they have good judgment, and I trust them.

It seems like yesterday they were toddlers watching Thomas the Train & now my oldest will be going off to college next year.

I’m not ready to let go of him yet, but I also know he’s becoming a young man now, and I don’t want to hold him back from pursuing his own life.

I will keep his room the same though, so he knows he can always come back if he needs to.

They really do grow up SO fast.

Anyway, I’m not sure where this tangent is supposed to be headed, so I am out.

I’ll pray for your Father.

I'm happy that things have worked out between you and your kids. It seems you're a balanced person and have good judgment. It also seems you're very loving and caring. I'm happy that you have self control and don't act out in anger, that's outstanding.
Most of all, I'm happy your kids have turned out well. And thank you for your concern. My ancestors were one of the many ancestors that had violence in their families.

I have to point out that NOT EVERYBODY IS THE SAME. Some kids are stronger mentally and emotionally,some a little and some are not. Some can handle your type of discipline, some cannot.

I can differentiate between mild corporal punishment and between abuse.

Spanking is still inflicting pain, though. Beating is inflicting greater pain and suffering (mental, physical, emotional)

What I wonder though, is if kids that are spanked trust their parents fully or are they afraid of them?

Yes, make your kids be responsible, work hard, be kind and mindful of others, respectful, honest but do it without inflicting physical pain. (if you can)

 

[Glad 2 know]

Unfortunately, that cannot be done by simply adopting a hands off policy, and it is more than a little unfair to imply that it can. God knows how many people damage their children irreparably without ever laying a hand on them.

We're intelligent human beings. We can be creative and come up with better solutions if we think deeply enough.

 

[justjess]

some of you are acting like there are no effective alternatives when that is not the case. This has been studied for decades, we know what works and what doesnt (physical discipline fyi). I do behavior modification with mentally ill and autistic kids, if its possible with them its possible with YOUR kid too.

Most parents fail at disciplining their kods because they lack consistancy, tthe model maladaptive behaviors themselves and they reinforce their childens negative behaviors unwittingly. Behavior is learned. Parents are the first and most dominant teachers. If people werent so damn lazy and inpatient when it comes to their kids they wouldnt have issues.

Hitting your kids is the laziest of all and does not inspire true behavior cgange, just fear based response to an aversive motivator. It isnt transferable to other environments because no one else is allowed to hit your kids. And on top of that it causes trauma and trust issues.

Other countries have banned it entirely yet here it remains legal. I presume for the same reason personal arsenals of assault weapons do.. we are a stubbirn selfish violent people who claim bad behavior is freedom and have it all screwed up in our heads.

It is what it is. But please atleast put the belt down.