Patriarchy is anti-life.

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#61
You should care what the law says, its there to protect children rightfully so. There is no reason to ever hit a child period with some sort of object even more so. If you cant get your children to listen/be respectful without assaulting them you really need to look at that.

The bible did not say thou shalt beat thy kids with belts, and that verse is very much open to interpretation and it is frequently used by the worst child abusers to justufy the harm they cause their kids.

You should thank god your 17 year old son hasnt turned that belt back on you by now.
LOL!

Since you didn’t give me actual Texas law ( just CPS drivel) I looked it up myself.

Here is what I found from the website of a Texas Family Law Attorney:

“Spanking is a tried and true method of child discipline used by countless generations of parents wanting to raise their children into healthy and productive adults. It is also a method despised by loony lefties. Many of those loony lefties work for CPS and are responsible for a great deal of nonsense on the subject. One told me that spanking is legal only on the buttocks and with the hand.


First, Texas Family Code (TFC) §261.001(1)(c) defines abuse of a child, in part, as physical injury that results in substantial harm to the child, excluding reasonable discipline by a parent, guardian, or managing or possessory conservator that does not expose the child to a substantial risk of harm.” This begs the question: is spanking “reasonable discipline”?


For the answer, let’s turn to TFC 151.001(e):

(e) Only the following persons may use corporal punishment for the reasonable discipline of a child:

(1) a parent or grandparent of the child;

(2) a stepparent of the child who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child; and

(3) an individual who is a guardian of the child and who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child.

So the Texas Family Code specifically confirms that the mere act of spanking is not abuse. The statute was introduced by Representative Howard Dutton, who had heard too many stories of children being snatched from their parents by CPS agents who believed spanking was abuse by definition.

Texas Penal Code §9.61:

(a) The use of force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified:

(1) if the actor is the child’s parent or stepparent or is acting in loco parentis to the child; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare.

(b) For purposes of this section, “in loco parentis” includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or parents.”
 




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#62
The bible did not say thou shalt beat thy kids with belts, and that verse is very much open to interpretation and it is frequently used by the worst child abusers to justufy the harm they cause their kids.

You should thank god your 17 year old son hasnt turned that belt back on you by now.
You act as if I beat my kids....Get real.

I have NEVER injured my kids & never will.

They would be the first ones to laugh at your implication.

And, just because YOU think verses leave room for malevolent interpretation does not mean that I do.

Furthermore, my kids are happy, healthy, well-adjusted, and are not “bad” kids, (BECAUSE I spank them WHEN NECESSARY, as NO child is perfect & cannot be expected to be) and are quite respectful to ALL adults, not just my husband & I.

The most disturbing thing you’ve said (ESPECIALLY considering your CPS connection) is the last sentence above, which I bolded & highlighted......

you think because I properly discipline my children with spanking that my 17 year old son ought to take the belt from his mother and hit HER with it?!!

So I forwarded your comment to my 17 year old son and his response was, and I quote:

“What?! Why would they say that. You are my mom, I could never hurt you—I love you!”

(Then he asked what’s for dinner & I told him meatloaf, but that is off topic...)

Anyway, perhaps you shouldn’t jump to conclusions.
 




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#63
You act as if I beat my kids....Get real.

I have NEVER injured my kids & never will.

They would be the first ones to laugh at your implication.

And, just because YOU think verses leave room for malevolent interpretation does not mean that I do.

Furthermore, my kids are happy, healthy, well-adjusted, and are not “bad” kids, (BECAUSE I spank them WHEN NECESSARY, as NO child is perfect & cannot be expected to be) and are quite respectful to ALL adults, not just my husband & I.

The most disturbing thing you’ve said (ESPECIALLY considering your CPS connection) is the last sentence above, which I bolded & highlighted......

you think because I properly discipline my children with spanking that my 17 year old son ought to take the belt from his mother and hit HER with it?!!

So I forwarded your comment to my 17 year old son and his response was, and I quote:

“What?! Why would they say that. You are my mom, I could never hurt you—I love you!”

(Then he asked what’s for dinner & I told him meatloaf, but that is off topic...)

Anyway, perhaps you shouldn’t jump to conclusions.
You're probably a good, normal parent who loves her kids. If Jess works for cps, she has probably seen the worst the world has to offer, and I'm sure it is more tragic than you or I could imagine. Different worlds. JS
 




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#64
You're probably a good, normal parent who loves her kids. If Jess works for cps, she has probably seen the worst the world has to offer, and I'm sure it is more tragic than you or I could imagine. Different worlds. JS

You’re probably right about that.

There are, unfortunately, some truly wicked people out there. She probably has seen horrific cases of real abuse, and to her credit, I don’t think I could do her job..,.especially cases involving sexual abuse.
I couldn’t sit & interview parents calmly knowing there is evidence of r*pe or torture without attacking them & then probably going to jail myself for assaulting them.
So I am at least thankful that she can, to advocate for the children being abused.

Even if we differ on methods of discipline, I’m thankful there are people like her out there to give otherwise voiceless children a way out of a tragic situation.

No hard feelings Jess.
 




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#65
You’re probably right about that.

There are, unfortunately, some truly wicked people out there. She probably has seen horrific cases of real abuse, and to her credit, I don’t think I could do her job..,.especially cases involving sexual abuse.
I couldn’t sit & interview parents calmly knowing there is evidence of r*pe or torture without attacking them & then probably going to jail myself for assaulting them.
So I am at least thankful that she can, to advocate for the children being abused.

Even if we differ on methods of discipline, I’m thankful there are people like her out there to give otherwise voiceless children a way out of a tragic situation.

No hard feelings Jess.
Yeah I don't think I could do it either. :/
 




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#66
Claire Rousseau said:
God is indeed patriarchal, as God is male.
Todd said:
Never underestimate the at times stark anthropomorphisms of the Bible and how they can be read, or interpreted, quite literally:

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name."
(Exodus 15:3)
 




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#68
Hitting your children with a belt is legally abuse.. i suggest you use an open hand instead - that is legally fine so long as you dont leave a bruise.

Every marriage is different. What works for one doesnt for another.

And there is more to strength then physicality. A strong will gets you further then big biceps.
Better yet, don't spank them at all. I believe a lot of this bullying and fierce mentality has to do with corporal punishment. The more you hit your children, the more they may tend to become more distant and unable to trust. They more they fear you, instead of truly respect you. They may also lack empathy, if you're not empathic enough to NOT cause PAIN, then why would they grow up empathic? If you can cause a child pain on a regular basis, don't you think that will also cause them a lot of emotional pain, maybe toughens them up? (aside from harsh words) You want them to be strong enough to feel, but not tough enough that they won't.

The whole purpose of "discipline" is to correct. You're doing something wrong, correct it. Make your kids use their reasoning and thinking abilities, don't use fear and pain to teach them. Teach them to suffer the consequences of their actions. "you're not cleaning up your room?" Can't watch your favorite show today and you can't go out and play with your friends" Good actions have good consequences, bad actions have sad consequences.
 




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#70
You might get that wish through force, soon enough with Christian fascists having more power now than ever before.
That's rich...Christians are hated, we always have been, always will be, because they first hated Christ.

This world system is operated by satan (for the time being, at least) , and that is who TPTB must serve to have any kind of power in this world.

Christians don't force anything on others.
 




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#71
Better yet, don't spank them at all. I believe a lot of this bullying and fierce mentality has to do with corporal punishment. The more you hit your children, the more they may tend to become more distant and unable to trust. They more they fear you, instead of truly respect you. They may also lack empathy, if you're not empathic enough to NOT cause PAIN, then why would they grow up empathic? If you can cause a child pain on a regular basis, don't you think that will also cause them a lot of emotional pain, maybe toughens them up? (aside from harsh words) You want them to be strong enough to feel, but not tough enough that they won't.

The whole purpose of "discipline" is to correct. You're doing something wrong, correct it. Make your kids use their reasoning and thinking abilities, don't use fear and pain to teach them. Teach them to suffer the consequences of their actions. "you're not cleaning up your room?" Can't watch your favorite show today and you can't go out and play with your friends" Good actions have good consequences, bad actions have sad consequences.

You must not have children.
 




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#73
That's the funniest thing I have ever read, because it's history proves otherwise.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trump-and-the-christian-fascists/

We know what the Christian right truly wants for the world and it has nothing to do with freedom.
Where in history exactly do you claim Christians are forcing our faith on others?

Your view of Christianity is shaped by an article by an ecumenical sellout who claims to be a "Presbyterian Minister"??

That article is bait, written to stir up all the liberal snowflakes out of their safe space.

Here is a bit of advice about Christianity from myself, a Christian:

Not everyone who claims to be Christian, is saved.

Some are, but many are not. Most "Christians" don't give out the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or read the Holy Bible, or live according to the Bible. These are the worldly, Zionist, mega church Freemasons(like Trump & Robertson) that are not saved & are "Christian" businessmen, looking to use the pulpit as a platform of power, politics, wealth & status. (The pope of the Roman Catholic Cult comes to mind).

Many preachers have sold out for fortunes, mansions, book deals & high acclaim, as well as to PURPOSELY & methodically destroy the Biblical doctrines taught by Christ, and are effectively strengthening the kingdom of their true master, satan.

Trump may say he is a Christian, but I don't buy it for a second. He loves money far too much to serve Jesus. I never liked the guy, and he is a sellout, a wicked, power hungry celebrity that would probably knock over a little, old lady just to snatch a penny off a sidewalk.

The political partisan game is a fraud.

There is no truth in it, and the love of money IS the root of ALL evil.
 




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#74
6000 years of patriarchy. Wars, genocides and rapings. Suppression and domination of the ancient women centered matriarchal civilizations (which ended when the minoan civilization fell). The religions of Abraham (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) have untold amounts of blood on their hands. They use the concept of evil and Satan to dehumanize their opponents and justify what could otherwise not be justified, killing another human being. They don't even follow their own prophet's teachings. Jesus is the prince of peace and he was killed because he spoke out against the roman imperialist patriarchy. He was spreading the wisdom of the goddess and they could not tolerate it. His teachings threatened the violent Roman empire and its lust for domination. Women loved Jesus so much, in fact it was the reason why Christianity rose to dominance in the Roman empire. The Roman government needed to take it over and use it for their own purposes and along came the apostle Paul (who actually never met Jesus and openly mocked him, including the fact that he had long hair) and corrupt his message.

So now we have the American empire which is basically the extension of the Roman Empire. It will try to carry out Patriarchy's ultimate goal; the end of life and the flesh. The American government has shown its true colors through Trump. He symbolizes what has always been true about their philosophy; fascism. Its disdain for women and femininity (i.e. life itself). They are obsessed with nuclear war, they desire it. The patriarchal god will try to carry out his mission with this terrible weapon. I recently watched an interview on Democracy Now, the American government has been longing to nuke Russia and China since the end of ww2. If this is carried out, most of life (if not all) will die out. North Korea is a puppet state of China. We are at the brink my friends.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.democracynow.org/embed/story/2017/12/6/doomsday_machine_daniel_ellsberg_reveals_he" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true"></iframe>
Sadly, just a very bigoted perspective. You want to focus on the male aspect of these crimes and not the female. It's victimology on your part. You probably don't know any Iranians - I assume your world view is very small - you should talk to some and you will find out that the "enforcers" (for example) of women's head coverings - are all female. I chose Iranian culture because they are a prime example of an Islamic society where virtually everything is run by women. This was known well before the Islamic revolution, wherein cultural anthropologists and other social dynamics experts (mostly women themselves) recognized the domination of Iranian culture by females. The males are afraid of them actually. Usually, stupid and ill-informed people conflate Iran with the Saudis - a totally distinct and different culture - Wahabist arab versus Aryan non-arab. In any case, your narros perspective does exactly what "feminists" want it to do - create resentment over the idea that "history" has been authored entirely by males, instead of acknowledging that half the world is female. Indeed, with the equal numerical representation of females in the world, if your narrative were true - that "all history reflects a pattern of brutal male domination" - then I have to wonder, "What's wrong with the females?" "Are they stupid or something?" I _would_ have to wonder that, if I were to accept the bigoted and deformed perspective that your narrative presumes, but I don't. I assume that women have been there - powerful and overwhelming from the start - encouraging and nourishing every barbaric and every compassionate act. In fact, your narrative is just fodder for weak mind who wish to see themselves of "big, strong males." Bullshit!
 




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#75
LOL!

Since you didn’t give me actual Texas law ( just CPS drivel) I looked it up myself.

Here is what I found from the website of a Texas Family Law Attorney:

“Spanking is a tried and true method of child discipline used by countless generations of parents wanting to raise their children into healthy and productive adults. It is also a method despised by loony lefties. Many of those loony lefties work for CPS and are responsible for a great deal of nonsense on the subject. One told me that spanking is legal only on the buttocks and with the hand.


First, Texas Family Code (TFC) §261.001(1)(c) defines abuse of a child, in part, as physical injury that results in substantial harm to the child, excluding reasonable discipline by a parent, guardian, or managing or possessory conservator that does not expose the child to a substantial risk of harm.” This begs the question: is spanking “reasonable discipline”?


For the answer, let’s turn to TFC 151.001(e):

(e) Only the following persons may use corporal punishment for the reasonable discipline of a child:

(1) a parent or grandparent of the child;

(2) a stepparent of the child who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child; and

(3) an individual who is a guardian of the child and who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child.

So the Texas Family Code specifically confirms that the mere act of spanking is not abuse. The statute was introduced by Representative Howard Dutton, who had heard too many stories of children being snatched from their parents by CPS agents who believed spanking was abuse by definition.

Texas Penal Code §9.61:

(a) The use of force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified:

(1) if the actor is the child’s parent or stepparent or is acting in loco parentis to the child; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare.

(b) For purposes of this section, “in loco parentis” includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or parents.”
I mean, great for all you hicks down there in Texas. I do like your attitude on guns. On this issue, since my dad starting beating me with a belt when I was three - I just have to warn you that there is barely a two-week period in my life (now at age 60) that I don't think about this and wish that back then my little hands were strong enough to cause my father to trip on the steps on the way to the basement such that he would fall and strike his head (fatally) on the steps. In fact, if I were to see an adult beating a child in the manner that he beat me, I'm going to jail and that person is dead. Just saying... You want to beat your kids so bad? And you think it's so great? Just means you're a hick. In fact _real_ science has shown that the best discipline - one that assures high self esteem and good citizenship - is strict and regular enforcement of a predictable set of rules with no physical punishment.
 




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#76
I mean, great for all you hicks down there in Texas. I do like your attitude on guns. On this issue, since my dad starting beating me with a belt when I was three - I just have to warn you that there is barely a two-week period in my life (now at age 60) that I don't think about this and wish that back then my little hands were strong enough to cause my father to trip on the steps on the way to the basement such that he would fall and strike his head (fatally) on the steps. In fact, if I were to see an adult beating a child in the manner that he beat me, I'm going to jail and that person is dead. Just saying... You want to beat your kids so bad? And you think it's so great? Just means you're a hick. In fact _real_ science has shown that the best discipline - one that assures high self esteem and good citizenship - is strict and regular enforcement of a predictable set of rules with no physical punishment.
I got beaten like 9-10 times while growing up, and only feeling i have for my step father is respect...Probably should have done it more often, i was very hard to deal with, some lessons learned back then that way became my life habits...Do not steal, never... anything...treat woman with respect, and so on ...There are different kind of beating, in your case, something was wrong, maybe he overdone it , or did it for the wrong reasons...I don't know your story...But overall if done right way it has zero harm and a lot of positive impact...
 




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#77
Oh wow. Yes that's what our society needs. More violence against children! We just need to be careful not to hurt them too bad. Which makes me wonder. What is the threshold of pain that's appropriate when beating the shit out a child?

I'm trying to not make it personal, but stop being fools. Like you can't dish out discipline without putting your hands on someone? What kind of logic is that? Like is the whole beast aspect lost on you religious folks? It's satanic as fuck.

Where in the bible does it say it's ok to dominate your children like that??
 




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#78
I mean, great for all you hicks down there in Texas. I do like your attitude on guns. On this issue, since my dad starting beating me with a belt when I was three - I just have to warn you that there is barely a two-week period in my life (now at age 60) that I don't think about this and wish that back then my little hands were strong enough to cause my father to trip on the steps on the way to the basement such that he would fall and strike his head (fatally) on the steps. In fact, if I were to see an adult beating a child in the manner that he beat me, I'm going to jail and that person is dead. Just saying... You want to beat your kids so bad? And you think it's so great? Just means you're a hick. In fact _real_ science has shown that the best discipline - one that assures high self esteem and good citizenship - is strict and regular enforcement of a predictable set of rules with no physical punishment.
Who are you, exactly?
Obviously not someone who knows me or my children, or even someone who has read through all the posts on this board.

Funny you assume I must be a "hick" , just because I live in Texas.

You probably think we all ride around on horses & wear cowboy hats, too, huh?

You should consider getting out more, do some traveling, dispel some of your prejudices. You are right, however, about our views on guns. I really think that every household should be armed.


Well, I am sorry to hear that your Dad was such a jerk. He must have been abusive if you are that mentally/emotionally scarred.

However, I (and other loving, sane parents who spank their kids as a form of discipline AS NEEDED) am NOT your dad, I do NOT beat my kids, never have, never will, and as I already mentioned earlier, I do not spank my 10 yr old daughter with a belt at all, because she is petite, and I do not want her to get injured.

I do spank my teenage sons with a belt but I do not beat them.

I shouldn't have to defend myself when I've done NOTHING wrong.

It's too bad that you & others who have attacked me on this thread are, for whatever reason, unable to differentiate between a spanking & actual child abuse. There IS a line that parents shouldn't cross when spanking turns into malicious injury, and if YOU are unable to recognize where/when to draw that line, then I agree---YOU should not spank your children.

Many parents DO know where to draw the line, however, and you have no place projecting your inabilities to do so unto us.

My children are loved, healthy, happy, well-adjusted, caring, responsible & respectful.

Have a blessed day.
 




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#79
I understand why parents might spank their children, but I don't agree that it is effective beyond teaching children only to behave temporarily whenever the threat of physical punishment is present. Also, it's counter-productive. If a child forms the belief that physical aggression is always the appropriate approach to problem-solving, this becomes a detriment to actually learning the importance of decision-making skills that will lead to good behavior.
 




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#80
I got beaten like 9-10 times while growing up, and only feeling i have for my step father is respect...Probably should have done it more often, i was very hard to deal with, some lessons learned back then that way became my life habits...Do not steal, never... anything...treat woman with respect, and so on ...There are different kind of beating, in your case, something was wrong, maybe he overdone it , or did it for the wrong reasons...I don't know your story...But overall if done right way it has zero harm and a lot of positive impact...
Thank you, Vytas!

Glad that you understand.

I got spanked as a child as well, I knew I deserved it even back then and I doubt any other form of discipline would have worked on me.

I would have just rebelled even more, and would have probably ended up in jail or worse.

I actually appreciate that my parents loved me enough to spank me, because I know they didn’t enjoy it; they did it because it was the only thing that worked & got my attention, and made me reconsider the consequences of my actions.