Origins of Freemasonry, is it Satanic?

[Awoken2]

1st things 1st, how do I quote parts of what your saying as you do me? I've not mastered that yet. It just makes it easier to answer specific points.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

1st things 1st, how do I quote parts of what your saying as you do me? I've not mastered that yet. It just makes it easier to answer specific points.

I'm on a mobile so I just reply then crop out the bits between the square brackets I don't want...

 

[Awoken2]

From the times of the Reformation, Christianity has identified religious Catholicism (not individual Catholics) as having a part to play in the Biblical End Times. Some even go so far as to identify the Pope as one day acting as the "False Prophet" of Revelation.

Unpacking symbolism from Revelation, they would usher in the "Dragon" of Rev 13 and war which is patterned in the four horsemen of the Apocalyps

That really hasn't still explained why It's a reptilian head? I really would like to know the relevance of that.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That really hasn't still explained why It's a reptilian head? I really would like to know the relevance of that.

Thanks for the tip.

How about this from Revelation 12...

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[Awoken2]

How about this from Revelation 12...

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

I'm unable to correlate this to my question. If your referencing point 3 I would argue that the head morphing from Christ's head is a serpent. There is only the one head not seven, it is totally hornless and devoid of crowns so I can't see what your getting at.

 

[Vytas]

It's not really far reaching. You just ignore every single interpretation that isn't your own. Here is a quote from an unbiased person.

"Isaiah 14:12 does mention the "morning star" or "son of the dawn" in many translations, however there is little that connects this individual with Satan. "Lucifer" is of course the word used in Latin, and happens to also be the word used in 2 Peter 1:19. The word is an adjective, and not necessarily a name.

In the Isaiah passage, I don't think the context suggests it to be speaking of any type of fallen being though. The taunt in this text is directed towards the King of Babylon and it seems outside of the text to read eisegetically some other being into the context.

Venus, the planet, is known as the "morning star," and also as "lucifer" in history. This is because it's an early light in the sky, shining in the morning. I believe the language here in Isaiah is descriptive of the King, and illustrates the magnitude of his coming fall using pretty allegorical language."

Lucifer simply means, light bringer. So there goes the relevance of that word? It's just a phrase.

Clarity is important, and freemasons don't want that, i worship lucifer who he is it's my own affair? Aren't that convenient...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm unable to correlate this to my question. If your referencing point 3 I would argue that the head morphing from Christ's head is a serpent. There is only the one head not seven, it is totally hornless and devoid of crowns so I can't see what your getting at.

Perhaps that is more satanic then? Jesus revealed as the serpent (a popular occult theme) where God is the bad guy and Lucifer the noble hero?

 

[Helioform]

Perhaps that is more satanic then? Jesus revealed as the serpent (a popular occult theme) where God is the bad guy and Lucifer the noble hero?

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
Matthew 10:16

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
Matthew 10:16

Isn't imagery interesting?

 

[Awoken2]

Look let me make my position clear. I don't do religion. I find people who do nothing but quote from the Bible extremely tedious to be honest.

The book is not proven to be factual. How can it be?

Now a Haynes manual for a 1998 Ford Escort is a very factual book. If you do exactly what the book says It's text is proven instantly by visible results.

Now because the book is factual it doesn't then implore me to go around quoting different chapters to people because I'm aware that It's only going to be of interest to somebody who needs to fix their Ford Escort.

Now I was taken to church as a kid and if my memory serves me correctly then God is all loving, all understanding and all forgiving right?

Well then he will understand and forgive me for not believing in him. I have my reasons as you have yours.

God will know I don't have an agenda, I'm not representing any organisation, I'm a good guy with good intentions. I'm worried about our future and more importantly the future of my kids.

I can foresee some extremely bad times ahead and I'm trying to warn people.

So God shouldn't have a problem with me should he?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Look let me make my position clear. I don't do religeon. I find people who do nothing but quote from the Bible extremely tedious to be honest.

The book is not proven to be factual. How can it be?

Now a Haynes manual for a 1998 Ford Escort is a very factual book. If you do exactly what the book says It's text is proven instantly by visible results.

Now because the book is factual it doesn't then implore me to go around quoting different chapters to people because I'm aware that It's only going to be of interest to somebody who needs to fix their Ford Escort.

Now I was taken to church as a kid and if my memory serves me correctly then God is all loving, all understanding and all forgiving right?

Well then he will understand and forgive me for not believing in him. I have my reasons as you have yours.

God will know I don't have an agenda, I'm not representing any organisation, I'm a good guy with good intentions. I'm worried about our future and more importantly the future of my kids.

I can foresee some extremely bad times ahead and I'm trying to warn people.

So God shouldn't have a problem with me should he?

Like you, I am interested in what is true and real. It just so happens that the God described in the Bible has entered that category in my experience.

I have seen genuine miracles in my of life, and in the lives of those I know.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-case-for-miracles.3437/

I have also studied science to degree level and find no contradiction between true science and the Bible.

Study of fulfilled and yet to be fulfilled prophecy reveals a God who knows the end from the beginning.

Finally, understanding the facts around the life, death and resurrection of Jesus compel me to take his claims on my life seriously.

 

[Aero]

He was reading you your own literature....or do you think he was just making it all up?

I know Bill Cooper was speaking truth....why?....because he's dead.

Everyone and their brother is free to write a book. And put whatever in it they want. Basically cooper was just repeating shit he read from a bunch of old ass books. And many if those have been debunked.

Youre going to put blind trust in an ex navy intelligence officer? He was literally paid and taught by the enemy!

 

[Awoken2]

Everyone and their brother is free to write a book. And put whatever in it they want.!

That includes Bibles then doesn't it? There you go, beaten with your own argument.

 

[Aero]

That includes Bibles then doesn't it? There you go, beaten with your own argument.

Not really. It's the arguments against Freemasonry that are mostly biblical. So I'm forced to counter their beliefs with some other type of belief. But I'm not here to make arguments per say. If I wanted to make arguments I would just go straight logic on everyone. And that's not what I often do.

I'm just making assertions like many others here. Those assertions may come to change, evolve or be reinforced. The biblical Satan everyone talks about was personified perfectly by Anton Lavey. The Church of Satan, and the Satanic bible has a very specific doctrine. Like none of them are trying to trick you about what they are. They wouldn't be caught dead mocking or imitating Christianity. That's like them insulting themselves, who they are taught to worship.

There is a very real disconnect between fact and fiction here. And I've never tried to act like I know it all. I'm just confident, and unafraid. I'm not going to fall into some dark pit for knowing things. Monsters aren't going to get me for believing in something on a whim. When you look at all the actual evidence on Freemasonry vs The Church of Satan. They are literally polar opposites.

 

[Helioform]

When you look at all the actual evidence on Freemasonry vs The Church of Satan. They are literally polar opposites.

There are more similarities between the two than you think. Lavey wrote this in his book:

"Satanic Ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos ..."
"Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots.”

The Satanic Rituals, Companion to the Satanic Bible pp 21, 78.

 

[Awoken2]

Not really. It's the arguments against Freemasonry that are mostly biblical. So I'm forced to counter their beliefs with some other type of belief. But I'm not here to make arguments per say. If I wanted to make arguments I would just go straight logic on everyone. And that's not what I often do.

I'm not making any biblical arguments, Bibles are open to individual interpretation as this site clearly demonstrates.

And thanks for admitting you don't use logic, that's where we both differ I think.

 

[Aero]

There are more similarities between the two than you think. Lavey wrote this in his book:

"Satanic Ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos ..."
"Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots.”

The Satanic Rituals, Companion to the Satanic Bible pp 21, 78.

I think we could say the same about every modern Religion's rituals

 

[Aero]

I'm not making any biblical arguments, Bibles are open to individual interpretation as this site clearly demonstrates.

And thanks for admitting you don't use logic, that's where we both differ I think.

Oh really? So what's the logic behind all your previous personal attacks?

If it's part of your epic quest against the Illuminati, I think your angst is misplaced. And that's all I'm really seeing here. No solid arguments, just angst. Which is understandable. But I don't think that's a good place to be at. Emotionally speaking I mean.

 

[Awoken2]

Personal attacks?....show me.

And I'll start showing you some of the things you've said.

Let's see who comes off worst on this one shall we? Your the one who's posts are ego driven not mine. I'm sharing what I'm learning as I go along where you spend most of your time making outrageous claims about your superiority in one way or another.

I'll set you a challenge. You post my Top 10 personal attacks and I'll post your Top 10 ridiculous statements.

You wanna do this?

 

[Awoken2]

Here, let me start you off. I can see your busy on other threads putting people straight.

Didn't have to go back far....

Quote...

"People's reaction to all of this stuff is worse than anything that might be true. Maybe that is part of a conspiracy. But we can't go through life trying to find something to blame. That's called making excuses"

...And the whole point of actually being on a Vigilant Citizen website would be what then?