Only Atheists can be truly moral

Lisa

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Hi Lisa,
no, i dont believe that's the case. If this were true, i guess there wouldn't be a reason for anyone to even try to be a better person.

But, i would also say, that love without direction (without God, so to speak), is more of a destructive force, than most people think it is.

Kind regards,
threepwood
Guten Morgen, threepwood!
How many times do people try to be ’better’ people and fail..or have good intentions that fail too? But..we know that God...
Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
 






Lisa

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So much for random acts of kindness, I guess.
Random acts isn‘t the end all/be all of things. They do surprise and delight people and have value in that..however, its often not enough to change lives..Jesus changes lives.
 






threepwood

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Guten Morgen, threepwood!
How many times do people try to be ’better’ people and fail..or have good intentions that fail too? But..we know that God...
Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Hello there!

I always loved that verse. Nevertheless, i believe people fail to be better, because they love other things instead. This doesnt even have to be something bad, like money. But, in most cases, its not enough of a reason to pull through. And, like the bible teaches us, nothing else can change the heart. That's why alcoholics are said to be alcoholics, even if they are abstinent. And, putting God first every time, can be very hard, even for Christians.

Kind regards,
Threepwood
 






kerrichinchilla

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I catch your drift but I think the problem lies in the meaninglessness you attribute to life. Why bother being kind to others unless you too wish for others to be kind to you? With or without God as a guide, what drives morality in an atheist? That's a question I pose to YOU since you are so bent on dismantling theological/religious beliefs...
What drives an atheists morality?
But then that shows the selfishness of Christians and the kindness of an athiest. If an atheist is good for just the sake of being good, but the Christian only does it for reward. That shows the athiest is the more moral of the two.
 






Lisa

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But then that shows the selfishness of Christians and the kindness of an athiest. If an atheist is good for just the sake of being good, but the Christian only does it for reward. That shows the athiest is the more moral of the two.
No one does anything for the sake of being good. Christians tried to do God’s will as a thankful act of the grace we’ve been shown.
 






Tidal

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Thread title- Only Atheists can be truly moral
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Hmm...A few years ago the owner of a strategy game website announced he was having to close it down in order to look after his wife who was critically ill, so I asked him if he'd like me and a few Christian pals to pray for her, but to our surprise he replied "Thanks but no thanks, she's got people looking after her", whatever that meant.
Perhaps he was an atheist, I don't know.
(I never did know if his wife recovered)

Another time, a self-proclaimed atheist in a general chat forum said his two young daughters were sending him round the bend pestering him to let them "adopt" an alpaca (a llama-type thing) for about £100 (131 US dollars) which he couldn't (or wouldn't) afford, the creature would remain at the alpaca farm, and by "adopting" it they'd be sent pictures of it, and could visit it to hug and tickle it.
So I said to the atheist "No problem mate, me and my christian pals will have a whip-round and send you a cheque"
However he fobbed me off by muttering something like "Huh, you know you don't mean it", and wouldn't discuss it any more, so his kids never did get their alpaca.
 






threepwood

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But then that shows the selfishness of Christians and the kindness of an athiest. If an atheist is good for just the sake of being good, but the Christian only does it for reward. That shows the athiest is the more moral of the two.
Hi,

how would an atheist define "good"?

There was a really interesting debate between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris (in Vancouver) about very much everything, moral included. And Sam Harris really is someone, who puts forward the idea, that Religion generally can't be moral. But funny enough, he, like any atheist, really has a problem defining Good and Evil, which is why he met with the gnostic Jordan Peterson.
When I remember correctly, his definition of moral very much depends on the outcome of someones actions. Whereas this outcome has no fundamental meaning. Its merely a calculation of some positive factors against some negative ones. Like, how much tears did your words cause, in comparison of another string of words, you could have said.
Its no surprise, that this is the only possible way for an atheist to make a distinction between good and evil or right and wrong. The distinction between selfishness and altruism, than depends merely on someones time preference.

And this is not a concept of Good and Evil, this is just calculus. Feel free to imagine where this kind of "moral" would lead to.

Kind regards,
threepwood
 






Alanantic

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All human beings have a moral sense. It's called the conscience. The myth of the tree of good & evil is western religion's way of accounting for it.

"The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm. It is given to all human beings in a stronger or weaker degree, as force of members is given them in a greater or less degree. It may be strengthened by exercise, as may any particular limb of the body … Lose no occasion of exercising your dispositions to be grateful, to be generous, to be charitable, to be humane, to be true, just, firm, orderly, courageous, & consider every act of this kind as an exercise which will strengthen your moral faculties, and increase your worth." -- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1787
 






Tidal

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Thread title- Only Atheists can be truly moral
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Hmm, is it moral of them to flood our countries with scrounging heathen immigrants?
Or moral of them to be against Trumps Wall which would protect the border?
I also hear they've been issuing free drugs to the junky homeless, is that moral?
 






Alanantic

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Thread title- Only Atheists can be truly moral
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Hmm, is it moral of them to flood our countries with scrounging heathen immigrants?
Or moral of them to be against Trumps Wall which would protect the border?
I also hear they've been issuing free drugs to the junky homeless, is that moral?
They think it is.
"All problems are the result of ignorance." -- Buddha
 






threepwood

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All human beings have a moral sense. It's called the conscience.
Very true, and thank God for that.

Romans 2 14f said:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

The myth of the tree of good & evil is western religion's way of accounting for it.
Yeah.. thats what Jordan Peterson would have said. But naturally, this is very hard for atheists to explain rationally, and usually come up with another type of myth. Which is..just humane, i think.

Kind regards,
Threepwood
 






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