Only Atheists can be truly moral

LieDestroyer

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There is much talk about whether or not Atheists can be moral people, for we don't have such things as the Bible to guide us, but think of this:

An Atheist and a Christian (or anyone of any religion-- i'll use 'Christian' here just to keep it simple) both donate the same amount to the same charity. I argue that the charitable action of the Atheist is more moral than that of the Christian, because the Atheist did so without any incentive or motivation.

The Christian has heaven to look forward to, so in truth, no good thing they do goes un-rewarded. The Atheist on the other hand, doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so they donate genuinely expecting nothing in return.

Does not the expectation of reimbursement negate the morality of an action?
 






2cool4thisplanet

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I catch your drift but I think the problem lies in the meaninglessness you attribute to life. Why bother being kind to others unless you too wish for others to be kind to you? With or without God as a guide, what drives morality in an atheist? That's a question I pose to YOU since you are so bent on dismantling theological/religious beliefs...
What drives an atheists morality?
 






LieDestroyer

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I catch your drift but I think the problem lies in the meaninglessness you attribute to life. Why bother being kind to others unless you too wish for others to be kind to you? With or without God as a guide, what drives morality in an atheist? That's a question I pose to YOU since you are so bent on dismantling theological/religious beliefs...
What drives an atheists morality?
Morality is a human construct, not a supernatural one.

Morality is driven by what best benefits humanity, socially and personally. Things like murder, r*pe, stealing are quite obvious things to explain. I don't see why there has to be a God to explain it.
 






2cool4thisplanet

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Morality is based off the bible/scripture/ancient law so that's not entirely true or correct. All laws are derived from that somewhere.
I am not the best theologian to argue with since I do not have the same background as other more versed posters.
I don't wish to sound contrary but I really do wonder what motivates morality in an atheist..this is a sincere question...
 






TagliatelliMonster

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anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. - Jesus
Matthew 5:22

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

1 Corinthians 13:11
 






floss

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anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. - Jesus
Matthew 5:22

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

1 Corinthians 13:11
Lets quote the whole passage to get the context unlike this fool shall we?

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee; leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:21-26‬ ‭KJVA‬‬

Thanks for playing Etagloc
 






rainerann

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There is much talk about whether or not Atheists can be moral people, for we don't have such things as the Bible to guide us, but think of this:

An Atheist and a Christian (or anyone of any religion-- i'll use 'Christian' here just to keep it simple) both donate the same amount to the same charity. I argue that the charitable action of the Atheist is more moral than that of the Christian, because the Atheist did so without any incentive or motivation.

The Christian has heaven to look forward to, so in truth, no good thing they do goes un-rewarded. The Atheist on the other hand, doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so they donate genuinely expecting nothing in return.

Does not the expectation of reimbursement negate the morality of an action?
it depends on what you define as reimbursement. You could say that without an expectation of an afterlife, the atheist gives selflessly. However, an atheist can give for the sake of appearances, and the social reward of praise could result in giving reimbursement.

so the morality of an action like this is more complex than a simple expectation of reimbursement, which is why people adopt religions. Explaining the complex is appealing to people.
 






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Lisa

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If you reject God..how can you know what is moral?
Righteousness without God is just a filthy garment..it doesn’t mean anything.
Isaiah‬ ‭64:6‬ ‭
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.”
 






Alanantic

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"You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong, then you lack empathy, not religion." – AthiestRepublic.com
 






Lisa

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"You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong, then you lack empathy, not religion." – AthiestRepublic.com
What does empathy have to do with right and wrong?
 






Lisa

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Look it up in the dictionary.
Ok..so what does this have to do with right and wrong?

1empathy
noun
em·pa·thy
\ˈem-pə-thē\
  • 1: the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
  • 2: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experience the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner;
 






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threepwood

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There is much talk about whether or not Atheists can be moral people, for we don't have such things as the Bible to guide us, but think of this:

An Atheist and a Christian (or anyone of any religion-- i'll use 'Christian' here just to keep it simple) both donate the same amount to the same charity. I argue that the charitable action of the Atheist is more moral than that of the Christian, because the Atheist did so without any incentive or motivation.

The Christian has heaven to look forward to, so in truth, no good thing they do goes un-rewarded. The Atheist on the other hand, doesn't believe in an afterlife, and so they donate genuinely expecting nothing in return.

Does not the expectation of reimbursement negate the morality of an action?
Hi,

yeah, of course. If you expect something in return, there is nothing altruistic about your actions.

But it is unclear to me, why you would assume, Christians do it to get access to heaven, and atheists would generally do it out of altruism. As a christian myself, i can image a whole range of reasons to donate. Like, getting rid of beggars, letting everyone know how charitable you are or just to feel good.
If someone is a morally person, doesnt depend on how much you donate. But.. in some way, it is obvious, why an atheist would think in such categories. I would assume, he needs some kind of measurement, to quantify his moral...

Kind regards,
threepwood
 






Tidal

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Tidal said- Well what decent moral person would reject Jesus?
What did he say that upsets atheists?

--------------------------------------------------------------
You tell us..you reject Jesus.

You must have got me mixed up with somebody else missus, I only reject "Vanity Cults" whose members like to think they know more than the rest of us.. :p
 






Alanantic

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Ok..so what does this have to do with right and wrong?

1empathy
noun
em·pa·thy
\ˈem-pə-thē\
  • 1: the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
  • 2: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experience the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner;
I can't do your thinking for you. It's something you have to WANT to figure out.

"You cannot wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." ~ Navajo Proverb
 






Lisa

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I can't do your thinking for you. It's something you have to WANT to figure out.

"You cannot wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." ~ Navajo Proverb
Lol! I don’t do mental gymnastics like some people. This doesn’t make any sense to what you’re saying.
 






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