Once Saved Always Saved

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
15,056
You're hypothetically assuming all Christians are saved, like this baptist lady. Clearly you cannot see anyone else's faith beside your own.
I can only go by what I was told..as I didn’t know her before. I thought Sue was a Sunday school teacher..someone must have thought she was sound to have that role. The other lady wanted to argue for Christianity and thought that reading their book would help her refute what they said better..but it only captured her.

And again it’s the Spirit who tells us people can fall away from the faith...you think He’s lying to us.
 






floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,771
I can only go by what I was told..as I didn’t know her before. I thought Sue was a Sunday school teacher..someone must have thought she was sound to have that role. The other lady wanted to argue for Christianity and thought that reading their book would help her refute what they said better..but it only captured her.

And again it’s the Spirit who tells us people can fall away from the faith...you think He’s lying to us.
So because she was a Sunday school teacher and the person that put her there couldn't possibly be wrong about her salvation, she was saved? That's a lot of assumption here. By your standard, every Pastor are saved because the person that ordained them couldn't possibly be wrong?
The Spirit never said those who fall away were once saved.
 






Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
15,056
Salvation is forgiveness of sins.

So how are sins forgiven ?
Romans‬ ‭10:9-11‬ ‭
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

Mark‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins—He said to the paralytic.​
‭‭
‭‭
 






Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
15,056
So because she was a Sunday school teacher and the person that put her there couldn't possibly be wrong about her salvation, she was saved? That's a lot of assumption here. By your standard, every Pastor are saved because the person that ordained them couldn't possibly be wrong?
The Spirit never said those who fall away were once saved.
Is it assumption? They do try to vette people don’t they before they let them teach kids? I suppose they could be wrong about her...

Well with pastors it depends on what they teach doesn’t it?

Didn’t He? Why else would you be said to fall away from the faith unless you were of the faith yourself?
 






TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
5,216
Romans‬ ‭10:9-11‬ ‭
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

Mark‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins—He said to the paralytic.​
‭‭
‭‭
So sins don't matter as long as you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead ?
 






floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,771
Is it assumption? They do try to vette people don’t they before they let them teach kids? I suppose they could be wrong about her...

Well with pastors it depends on what they teach doesn’t it?

Didn’t He? Why else would you be said to fall away from the faith unless you were of the faith yourself?
Yes that would be an assumption regarding her salvation status.

Why would it depend on what they teach? By your standard, it depend on the person who ordained them.

Not everyone in the Christian faith are saved, like the baptist sunday school teacher. People can appeared to be save, yes.
 






Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
15,056
Yes that would be an assumption regarding her salvation status.

Why would it depend on what they teach? By your standard, it depend on the person who ordained them.

Not everyone in the Christian faith are saved, like the baptist sunday school teacher. People can appeared to be save, yes.
Possibly..the author that brought her up didn’t have reason to suspect she wasn’t..she seemed to do and say the right things.

No one can become a Sunday School teacher on their own...but anyone can start a church. I went to one where the pastor was self taught..he seemed to teach the right things.

Then again maybe they are saved and were deceived by doctrines of demons..that is the other part of the verse ya know.

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.​
 






elsbet

Star
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
4,402
That wasn’t the point of the link..the point is that scriptures doesn’t back that up. Hebrews 6:4-6.

1 Timothy 4:1 talks about falling away because of doctrines of demons..being deceived is a way
If you think about it... being deceived by the evil one is what set it all into motion, back in the garden--> God reconciling us to Himself...

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

Not that it was a good thing-- obviously, it wasn't. It does, however, show the lengths to which our God will go, to pull us 'from the snare of the fowler... and from the deadly plague.'

'Because he loves me, I will deliver him...'
 






Kung Fu

Star
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
4,757
If you think about it... being deceived by the evil one is what set it all into motion, back in the garden--> God reconciling us to Himself...

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

Not that it was a good thing-- obviously, it wasn't. It does, however, show the lengths to which our God will go, to pull us 'from the snare of the fowler... and from the deadly plague.'

'Because he loves me, I will deliver him...'
"God reconciled us to Himself" - Was your version of God so weak that he needed to incarnate Himself as a human while it being His son at the same time and to kill Himself/His only son all in order to pay some kind of ransom to the devil in order to win humanity back?

Just off the bat I see three problems, and I'm not talking about a triangle. First, Him incarnating Himself or His son in the flesh. Second, was He so cruel He needed to kill His own son, who prayed to God or to Himself not to be crucified in the garden, who was sinless and shouldn't have been held responsible for the actions of other rational human beings? Third, did he need to a pay ransom to the devil in order to win humanity back and if not then why go through all the theatrics?
 






Kung Fu

Star
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
4,757
Would one be saved if they believed Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead afterwards? What makes a Christian a Christian?
 






Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
2,374
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
(James 2:14-26)
 






Lyfe

Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
630
Would one be saved if they believed Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose from the dead afterwards? What makes a Christian a Christian?
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Bible teaches that In order to be saved one is called to acknowledge they are a sinner that sins and has sinned against God, and in this acknowledgement they must repent and go to the lord not as one who desires to continue in their rebellion, but out of a sincere heart with earnest turn from their wicked ways. They must believe the testimony of Jesus Christ in that through him they may receive forgiveness for it was him who paid the penalty for sin on the cross. Repent and believe in the lord Jesus Christ and ask him to save you and forgive you of your sin and ye shall be saved.
 






Last edited:

Kung Fu

Star
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
4,757
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Bible teaches that In order to be saved one is called to acknowledge they are a sinner that sins and has sinned against God, and in this acknowledgement they must repent and go to the lord not as one who desires to continue in their rebellion, but out of a sincere heart with earnest turn from their wicked ways. They must believe the testimony of Jesus Christ in that through him they may receive forgiveness for it was him who paid the penalty for sin on the cross. Repent and believe in the lord Jesus Christ and ask him to save you and forgive you of your sin and ye shall be saved.
If you believe Jesus died for your sins than how are you, today, a sinner?

Also, once "saved" are you always saved?

Are Catholics saved? By your definition they would be, right? They believe in Jesus, his crucifixion, and that humans are sinners.
 






Lyfe

Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
630
If you believe Jesus died for your sins than how are you, today, a sinner?

Also, once "saved" are you always saved?

Are Catholics saved? By your definition they would be, right? They believe in Jesus, his crucifixion, and that humans are sinners.
The Bible says that we deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin, the difference is that anyone who is born again doesnt live a life that is dictated or defined by sin.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I trust the KJV above all other Bibles, but still like to use various others for enhanced understanding of certain scriptures, namely the amplified bible.

1 John 3:9 Amplified Bible (AMP)
9 No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because [a]God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

If someone is in Christ they are by biblical definition a saint and no longer a sinner by label. They sin, but their life is no longer dictated or governed by the power of sin, neither does God impute their sin unto them or hold their sin against them in judgment, because of Christs work.

I believe Catholics for the most parent arent saved just like I believe most church going people who profess to be Christian are not saved. I will say that anyone can get saved as a catholic, or even a newly saved person may attend catholic church, but they wont remain there, because I believe God would lead them out by the leading of his spirit. Jesus said he would give his people the spirit of truth that would lead them into all truth. God is sovereign and active in the lives of his people, he does have ways of speaking to their heart and revealing things to them such as the deception of the catholic church.

In regards to your question about OSAS, I believe so scripturally from what I had pointed out earlier, but like any doctrine there will be those at variance.
 






Kung Fu

Star
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
4,757
The Bible says that we deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin, the difference is that anyone who is born again doesnt live a life that is dictated or defined by sin.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I trust the KJV above all other Bibles, but still like to use various others for enhanced understanding of certain scriptures, namely the amplified bible.

1 John 3:9 Amplified Bible (AMP)
9 No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because [a]God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

If someone is in Christ they are by biblical definition a saint and no longer a sinner by label. They sin, but their life is no longer dictated or governed by the power of sin, neither does God impute their sin unto them or hold their sin against them in judgment, because of Christs work.

I believe Catholics for the most parent arent saved just like I believe most church going people who profess to be Christian are not saved. I will say that anyone can get saved as a catholic, or even a newly saved person may attend catholic church, but they wont remain there, because I believe God would lead them out by the leading of his spirit. Jesus said he would give his people the spirit of truth that would lead them into all truth. God is sovereign and active in the lives of his people, he does have ways of speaking to their heart and revealing things to them such as the deception of the catholic church.

In regards to your question about OSAS, I believe so scripturally from what I had pointed out earlier, but like any doctrine there will be those at variance.
Thank you for your response.

I'm still confused about the Catholics. If a Catholic genuinely believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins, that he rose afterwards, and that humans are sinners how could they not be saved? Are those not the core tenets of being a Christian and saved?
 






seekinheart

Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
630
Thank you for your response.

I'm still confused about the Catholics. If a Catholic genuinely believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins, that he rose afterwards, and that humans are sinners how could they not be saved? Are those not the core tenets of being a Christian and saved?
they are, but very rare for a catholic to be truly born again.
 






Lyfe

Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
630
I believe that anyone can receive salvation and be indwelt with the holy spirit and remain for a season in any institution not of God, but not indefinitely. Its even when I was backslid and keeping company with those I was always convicted over and doing things I was always convicted of I always felt that conviction and leading out of such a lifestyle.

I think most catholic's like any other church going individual were born into that, but never heard the true gospel. I feel these people are easy to spot once you ask them why they believe they are going to heaven. If you ask them they will respond that they are a good person or they have kept some rite of the catholic church. Their heart reveals that they are relying on anything, but the biblical prerequisite for salvation which is in Christ alone. Even before I got saved I was an atheist for a season, but prior to even that I would claim to be Christian if anyone asked and said I believed in Jesus though I was born into it and didn't really know anything of that which I said I believed. I would say I was a Christian, but I was unregenerate and not born again. I thought I would go to heaven ultimately, because I believed I was a good person, but this is not the gospel or what it teaches. The real gospel is salvation Christ alone, but the gospel of the catholic church adds to that and becomes a different gospel entirely than that of the gospel of salvation.
 






Top