Once Saved Always Saved

TokiEl

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It's an immature attitude to claim that one is already saved. It's infantile... it's what baby milk christians are prone to do.
 






TokiEl

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In the Holy writ salvation is known as the hope of glory... so what do baby bottle christians call it ? That's right the blessed assurance.
 






Tidal

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21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Yeah people who say "I stopped being a christian", couldn't have truly been one in the first place.
It's as crazy as anybody saying "I stopped liking Elvis", because they could never have truly been an Elvis fan in the first place.
I mean, how can anybody in their right mind suddenly decide they don't like Jesus or Elvis?.. :D
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Yeah people who say "I stopped being a christian", couldn't have truly been one in the first place.
It's as crazy as anybody saying "I stopped liking Elvis", because they could never have truly been an Elvis fan in the first place.
I mean, how can anybody in their right mind suddenly decide they don't like Jesus or Elvis?.. :D
That would presume that nothing happens on a spiritual level when you are born again. I think that interpretation is at odds with the Bible and the triune nature of man...

 






Lisa

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That’s correct - the Hebrews that we’re being written to were Jewish Christians and the lesson was Kadesh Barnea. I really recommend you watch the video some time @Lisa
So they were Christians..they had the Holy Spirit...where am I wrong then?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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So they were Christians..they had the Holy Spirit...where am I wrong then?
I have presented as much as I can in text without over-simplifying things. Andy’s video is still available for you (or anyone else) to consider. I found it very worthwhile anyway!
 






TokiEl

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John 6

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Luke 24 46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Look you picked a bible verse and so did i.... do we got a problem ?
 






Lyfe

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Tok you believe that a Christian cannot have any assurance of his salvation?
 






Lisa

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I have presented as much as I can in text without over-simplifying things. Andy’s video is still available for you (or anyone else) to consider. I found it very worthwhile anyway!
I think I already tried to watch that one once...

Can you answer this...if you no longer have faith...are you still saved...as in..the Spirit explicitly says that some will fall away from the faith?
 






Lyfe

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I contend that those who fall away never truly believed although they took company church.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
John 6:62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Those who turned back did not truly believe the testimony that Jesus gave on behalf of himself. It was always in Israel that there were those according to the flesh and then a spiritual remnant that knew God. In the church of Corinth many denied the Resurrection of Jesus and were carnal. I believe its, because they were unregenerate, because how can one believe in Jesus if they dont even believe he rose from the dead? Paul said that some have not the knowledge of God there.
 






Lyfe

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Those who believed were the disciples and they did not fall away, but those who believed not went back and walked with him no more
 






TokiEl

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Tok you believe that a Christian cannot have any assurance of his salvation?
Salvation in the Holy writ is known as the blessed hope... so why would believers in what is written in the Holy writ call salvation the blessed assurance ?
 






Lisa

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Those who believed were the disciples and they did not fall away, but those who believed not went back and walked with him no more
Sure..but what about 1Timothy 4:1?
The Sprite explicitly says..no ifs, ands or buts about it...that in later times some will fall away from the faith.
If you fall away from the faith..doesn’t that mean you did have faith? If you fall away from the faith...can you still expect salvation?

The verse says that they paid attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Looks like you can get fooled into falling away from God.

Does that then bring Hebrews 6:4-6 into play?
Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.​
‭‭
 






Lyfe

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God gives those born again the spirit of truth that leads them into all truth. I believe its easy for man to be led astray if he is not led by the spirit of truth, because he is now at the whim of every other spirit.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I think I already tried to watch that one once...

Can you answer this...if you no longer have faith...are you still saved...as in..the Spirit explicitly says that some will fall away from the faith?
I wonder if this Is the ultimate hypothetical question.

Whilst we have a number of differences, I recognise that you believe the Gospel. Do you think anything could persuade you to deny Jesus? I don’t think the Holy Spirit in me would let me.
 






Lyfe

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How much of the perseverance belonging to salvation falls upon mans compliance and how much of it is due to Gods righteous right hand preserving the saint? The very desire to even live for God and please God is a work of God.
 






Lisa

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I wonder if this Is the ultimate hypothetical question.

Whilst we have a number of differences, I recognise that you believe the Gospel. Do you think anything could persuade you to deny Jesus? I don’t think the Holy Spirit in me would let me.
I’ve told this before..I talked with a mormon woman who didn’t grow up mormon, she was a baptist....but became a mormon after they came to her door. She read their book to try to refute them and ended up believing their book...she taught her kids and her grandkids the mormon faith. One could say that she wasn’t a real ChristIan..however, who’s faith are people falling away from in 1 Timothy 4:1?

I also remember the story of this woman...Sue Monk Kidd...
How a Christian Sunday school teacher turned away and got swept into the deception of contemplative spirituality.

Source: Ray Yunger, from A Time of Departing, posted at Lighthouse Trails Research

Sue Monk Kidd’s spirituality is spelled out clearly in her book When the Heart Waits. She explains:

There’s a bulb of truth buried in the human soul [not just Christian] that’s “only God” … the soul is more than something to win or save. It’s the seat and repository of the inner Divine, the God-image, the truest part of us. (emphasis mine)
Sue Monk Kidd, an introspective woman, gives a revealing description of her spiritual transformation in her book God’s Joyful Surprise: Finding Yourself Loved. She shares how she suffered a deep hollowness and spiritual hunger for many years even though she was very active in her Baptist church. She sums up her feelings:

Maybe we sense we-re disconnected from God somehow. He becomes superfluous to the business at hand. He lives on the periphery so long we begin to think that is where He belongs. Anything else seems unsophisticated or fanatical.
Ironically, a Sunday school co-worker handed her a book by Thomas Merton, telling her she needed to read it. Once Monk Kidd read it, her life changed dramatically.


I think the Holy Spirit would warn you...but, I think that when we want something...we can tune Him out. I would hope that I would never fall away and I pray that for myself and my family. That would be horrible. Why would God let us know that false prophets and teachers are out there...if they can’t somehow get to us? Should we be on the alert for them..or maybe it really doesn’t matter? But why the warnings if it doesn’t matter?
 






floss

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I’ve told this before..I talked with a mormon woman who didn’t grow up mormon, she was a baptist....but became a mormon after they came to her door. She read their book to try to refute them and ended up believing their book...she taught her kids and her grandkids the mormon faith. One could say that she wasn’t a real ChristIan..however, who’s faith are people falling away from in 1 Timothy 4:1?
you're assuming this lady was saved just because she attended some baptist church, then lost her salvation when she converted to mormonism. Which make more sense, she was never saved or she lost it and can never get it back? Hypothetically, this lady converted back to being a Baptist, then what? Was she saved, lost it, then got it back?
 






Lisa

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you're assuming this lady was saved just because she attended some baptist church, then lost her salvation when she converted to mormonism. Which make more sense, she was never saved or she lost it and can never get it back? Hypothetically, this lady converted back to being a Baptist, then what? Was she saved, lost it, then got it back?
Doesn’t seem like she will convert back. The mormon lady I talked to didn’t either. We can only go by what the women in question said. Apparently people know that Sue Mon Kidd..

The Bible says you can fall away from the faith..

I don’t do hypotheticals, sorry.
 






floss

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Doesn’t seem like she will convert back. The mormon lady I talked to didn’t either. We can only go by what the women in question said. Apparently people know that Sue Mon Kidd..

The Bible says you can fall away from the faith..

I don’t do hypotheticals, sorry.
You're hypothetically assuming all Christians are saved, like this baptist lady. Clearly you cannot see anyone else's faith beside your own.
 






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