That wasn’t the point of the link..the point is that scriptures doesn’t back that up. Hebrews 6:4-6.I think the author does a nice job of illustrating the impossibility of removing our own salvation.
Good find. ☆
I think the falling away is not what it seems, on the surface-- I cannot fathom that. To be given even a taste--> it would be irresistible.
How are you a "partaker of the Holy Spirit", are you able to describe this in detail? (or are these just words on a page to you?)
I'm not asking for quotes, I'm asking for you to explain what you think it actually MEANS.
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
Here ya go..this explains it.I'm not asking for quotes, I'm asking for you to explain what you think it actually MEANS.
The Christians in Hebrews 6:4-6 were Christians. They partook of the Holy Spirit..it’s only Christians who can do that.Lisa that passage in Hebrews has to be taken in context. The whole book of Hebrews is addressed toward a group of Christians that after coming to a faith and knowledge of Christ still sought to make sacrifice as according to the law of moses. The author pointed out that those things were a foreshadow of Christ, but not the reality in itself, which was Christ. It also pointed out that Christ is the sacrificial lamb and ultimate sacrifice that the law of Moses pointed to, thus it would be pointless to come to Christ and continue to offer sacrifice as part of the levitical priesthood system.
Again you haven't explained anything have did exactly what I said not to (randomly giving quotes). I'm asking for your explanation of what you believe it MEANS.Here ya go..this explains it.
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
No, that verse explains it all. Once you believe the Holy Spirit makes His home in your heart. He is the helper here to help us.Again you haven't explained anything have did exactly what I said not to (randomly giving quotes). I'm asking for your explanation of what you believe it MEANS.
What you hint, is that you don't know what it means.
I can tell you that before I was saved the thoughts and desires of my heart were occupied by worldly pursuits and living out my fleshly desires. I played allot of video games. I was very into worldly fashion and enjoyed worldly music and entertainments. I enjoyed drunkenness and rioting and took pleasure in it even. I took pleasure in my sin and the world was a box of chocolates ready to indulge in and be merry over.How are you a "partaker of the Holy Spirit", are you able to describe this in detail? (or are these just words on a page to you?)
That’s correct - the Hebrews that we’re being written to were Jewish Christians and the lesson was Kadesh Barnea. I really recommend you watch the video some time @LisaHebrews 6:4-
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
The only people that can be made partakers of the Holy Spirit are Christians.
So to paraphrase, the only possible “assurance” could come from our own consciences approving our good actions, and because they cannot be relied upon (as we all play with the truth to spin things favourably) such assurance is mere hubris.There is no "assurance" of salvation in the sense you say - as that breeds pride, contempt, arrogance, ignorance, gluttony, boastfulness, vanity and removes all of one's personal accountability.
Salvation is far deeper than your religious label or your skin color like you seem to think. It is a matter of the heart, the mind, of one's actions and how one strives for the good. There will be many 'born again' Christians in hell, just like every other religious group. If you're not able to understand that, then you haven't grown into adult spirituality yet.
No that is not what I'm saying.So to paraphrase, the only possible “assurance” could come from our own consciences approving our good actions, and because they cannot be relied upon (as we all play with the truth to spin things favourably) such assurance is mere hubris.
So if you trust in God’s grace and the sufficiency of the Cross, that faith is either naive or arrogant?No that is not what I'm saying.
Firstly it's arrogant to assume to know the end-state of your soul, whatever religion you follow. You cannot know this, and no religion (including Christianity) actually guarantees your salvation through simply believing a bunch of ideas. A belief in one's predetermined salvation leads to the aforementioned: pride, contempt, arrogance, ignorance, gluttony, boastfulness, vanity.
Salvation is not an object you just get like a driver's license, salvation is by it's nature a process which involves all of one's life. You can't say, for instance "I obtained salvation 30 years ago", that is mere folly and ignorance.
You do not really know if you're saved or not, you just believe that you've chosen the correct religion based upon whatever limitations you've set on yourself in order to choose that religion. But you cannot claim to know that you're saved, in a way that is just claiming yourself to be God.
Even in Paulian Christianity with your narrative of Jesus dying for you. Simply believing such a thing is not enough, if it was then salvation would be meaningless; relative. Salvation has to be a process within one's heart/spirit/mind/soul/consciousness. It has to be a path one walks towards. Christians can go to hell like anyone else can.
If you live thinking that you're already saved and you actually believe on the basis of your belief alone (circular reasoning btw) that you've obtained what you needed on the basis of that belief, then you are doing this to yourself and your soul:
John 6You can live your life believing that Jesus died for you and still wind up in hell.