Once Saved Always Saved

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The only people that can be made partakers of the Holy Spirit are Christians.
How are you a "partaker of the Holy Spirit", are you able to describe this in detail? (or are these just words on a page to you?)
 






Lisa

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I think the author does a nice job of illustrating the impossibility of removing our own salvation.

Good find. ☆

I think the falling away is not what it seems, on the surface-- I cannot fathom that. To be given even a taste--> it would be irresistible.
That wasn’t the point of the link..the point is that scriptures doesn’t back that up. Hebrews 6:4-6.

1 Timothy 4:1 talks about falling away because of doctrines of demons..being deceived is a way
 






Lyfe

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Lisa that passage in Hebrews has to be taken in context. The whole book of Hebrews is addressed toward a group of Christians that after coming to a faith and knowledge of Christ still sought to make sacrifice as according to the law of moses. The author pointed out that those things were a foreshadow of Christ, but not the reality in itself, which was Christ. It also pointed out that Christ is the sacrificial lamb and ultimate sacrifice that the law of Moses pointed to, thus it would be pointless to come to Christ and continue to offer sacrifice as part of the levitical priesthood system.
 






Lisa

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How are you a "partaker of the Holy Spirit", are you able to describe this in detail? (or are these just words on a page to you?)

Romans‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Acts‬ ‭8:14-21‬ ‭
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
‭‭

‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭​
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
‭‭
 






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Romans‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Acts‬ ‭8:14-21‬ ‭
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
‭‭
‭‭​
I'm not asking for quotes, I'm asking for you to explain what you think it actually MEANS.
 






Lisa

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I'm not asking for quotes, I'm asking for you to explain what you think it actually MEANS.
Here ya go..this explains it.
Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.​
 






Lisa

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Lisa that passage in Hebrews has to be taken in context. The whole book of Hebrews is addressed toward a group of Christians that after coming to a faith and knowledge of Christ still sought to make sacrifice as according to the law of moses. The author pointed out that those things were a foreshadow of Christ, but not the reality in itself, which was Christ. It also pointed out that Christ is the sacrificial lamb and ultimate sacrifice that the law of Moses pointed to, thus it would be pointless to come to Christ and continue to offer sacrifice as part of the levitical priesthood system.
The Christians in Hebrews 6:4-6 were Christians. They partook of the Holy Spirit..it’s only Christians who can do that.
 






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Here ya go..this explains it.
Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.​
Again you haven't explained anything have did exactly what I said not to (randomly giving quotes). I'm asking for your explanation of what you believe it MEANS.
What you hint, is that you don't know what it means.
 






Lisa

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Again you haven't explained anything have did exactly what I said not to (randomly giving quotes). I'm asking for your explanation of what you believe it MEANS.
What you hint, is that you don't know what it means.
No, that verse explains it all. Once you believe the Holy Spirit makes His home in your heart. He is the helper here to help us.
 






Lyfe

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How are you a "partaker of the Holy Spirit", are you able to describe this in detail? (or are these just words on a page to you?)
I can tell you that before I was saved the thoughts and desires of my heart were occupied by worldly pursuits and living out my fleshly desires. I played allot of video games. I was very into worldly fashion and enjoyed worldly music and entertainments. I enjoyed drunkenness and rioting and took pleasure in it even. I took pleasure in my sin and the world was a box of chocolates ready to indulge in and be merry over.

This however all changed once I came to Christ through the conviction of the holy spirit. I knew that I was a sinner and that God was going to one day judge me and even punish me for my sin if I chose to live in rebellion toward him, and I also knew that Jesus through believing in his name was my only hope, because he paid the penalty for sin that would have otherwise have been exacted upon me.

It wasnt immediate at first, but after a while I began to notice changes within me. The same sin I took pleasure in I began to grieve over and disdain, and eventually hate. I only became interested in God and the things of God. My only interest or desire was the word of God and seeking God in prayer and doing his will. Its as the scripture says

1Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Cor 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

It is like being under two different completely dominions or powers. The natural man is under the dominion of sin whereas the children of God are under the dominion and leading and renewing of the holy spirit that judge the world through the mind of Christ. As a lost sinner I could not subject my mind or desire to do things like pray or talk about Jesus or read the word of God or praise God, because I was in my flesh. Now this is all I desire to do and all i find joy in. The holy spirit brings forth supernatural change taking place within the inner man. God said he would give a people his heart and mind to keep his laws.
 






Lisa

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If someone falls away from the faith..would you still be saved..or would you still need to have faith to be saved. If you don’t believe anymore, would you want to be in heaven with God?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

The only people that can be made partakers of the Holy Spirit are Christians.
That’s correct - the Hebrews that we’re being written to were Jewish Christians and the lesson was Kadesh Barnea. I really recommend you watch the video some time @Lisa
 






Red Sky at Morning

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There is no "assurance" of salvation in the sense you say - as that breeds pride, contempt, arrogance, ignorance, gluttony, boastfulness, vanity and removes all of one's personal accountability.

Salvation is far deeper than your religious label or your skin color like you seem to think. It is a matter of the heart, the mind, of one's actions and how one strives for the good. There will be many 'born again' Christians in hell, just like every other religious group. If you're not able to understand that, then you haven't grown into adult spirituality yet.
So to paraphrase, the only possible “assurance” could come from our own consciences approving our good actions, and because they cannot be relied upon (as we all play with the truth to spin things favourably) such assurance is mere hubris.

What if the assurance someone feels is in the sufficiency of the Cross? Tetelastai (or “paid in full”) reminds me of the first Christian album I listened to that helped my really understand this:-

 






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So to paraphrase, the only possible “assurance” could come from our own consciences approving our good actions, and because they cannot be relied upon (as we all play with the truth to spin things favourably) such assurance is mere hubris.
No that is not what I'm saying.

Firstly it's arrogant to assume to know the end-state of your soul, whatever religion you follow. You cannot know this, and no religion (including Christianity) actually guarantees your salvation through simply believing a bunch of ideas. A belief in one's predetermined salvation leads to the aforementioned: pride, contempt, arrogance, ignorance, gluttony, boastfulness, vanity.

It is:




Salvation is not an object you just get like a driver's license, salvation is by it's nature a process which involves all of one's life. You can't say, for instance "I obtained salvation 30 years ago", that is mere folly and ignorance.
You do not really know if you're saved or not, you just believe that you've chosen the correct religion based upon whatever limitations you've set on yourself in order to choose that religion. But you cannot claim to know that you're saved, in a way that is just claiming yourself to be God.

Even in Paulian Christianity with your narrative of Jesus dying for you. Simply believing such a thing is not enough, if it was then salvation would be meaningless; relative. Salvation has to be a process within one's heart/spirit/mind/soul/consciousness. It has to be a path one walks towards. Christians can go to hell like anyone else can.

If you live thinking that you're already saved and you actually believe on the basis of your belief alone (circular reasoning btw) that you've obtained what you needed on the basis of that belief, then you are doing this to yourself and your soul:

 






Red Sky at Morning

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No that is not what I'm saying.

Firstly it's arrogant to assume to know the end-state of your soul, whatever religion you follow. You cannot know this, and no religion (including Christianity) actually guarantees your salvation through simply believing a bunch of ideas. A belief in one's predetermined salvation leads to the aforementioned: pride, contempt, arrogance, ignorance, gluttony, boastfulness, vanity.

It is:




Salvation is not an object you just get like a driver's license, salvation is by it's nature a process which involves all of one's life. You can't say, for instance "I obtained salvation 30 years ago", that is mere folly and ignorance.
You do not really know if you're saved or not, you just believe that you've chosen the correct religion based upon whatever limitations you've set on yourself in order to choose that religion. But you cannot claim to know that you're saved, in a way that is just claiming yourself to be God.

Even in Paulian Christianity with your narrative of Jesus dying for you. Simply believing such a thing is not enough, if it was then salvation would be meaningless; relative. Salvation has to be a process within one's heart/spirit/mind/soul/consciousness. It has to be a path one walks towards. Christians can go to hell like anyone else can.

If you live thinking that you're already saved and you actually believe on the basis of your belief alone (circular reasoning btw) that you've obtained what you needed on the basis of that belief, then you are doing this to yourself and your soul:

So if you trust in God’s grace and the sufficiency of the Cross, that faith is either naive or arrogant?

When Jesus cried “It is finished”, it wasn’t?
 






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