Once Saved Always Saved

a son of God

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How does the once saved always saved understand this verse?

2 Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

How is this true if they are still going to heaven .... when they were going to go to hell?
 






a son of God

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The word used is known. Not believed, not trusted. Head knowledge about Jesus/ church doctrine is not faith.

If they had truly ***believed *** in Jesus they would not have left Him for another "Jesus".

Here's a good blog entry from a 5 point Calvinist theology website. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/entangled-again/
How does the once saved always saved understand this verse?

2 Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

How is this true if they are still going to heaven .... when they were going to go to hell?
Thanks JoChris, the only problem I have with that is the verse says "20 For if after they have escaped" not thinking about it, but already having gone over.
 






Violette

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If you've never experienced the purity of God then your attitude towards sin and its consequences are going to be much different than a believer. Life on earth will be troublesome if you have accepted Jesus Christ but ignore the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin. I think the passage is about believers struggling with the temptation of sin, not about us going to hell.
 






JoChris

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You would think that someone who had enough knowledge to make a profession of faith would know (**in their heart** as well) and understand the spiritual darkness, eternal destiny for both believers and unbelievers and so on.

If you read some early church historians you'll see how Simon of Magus, supposedly a believer is believed by some to have later created his own cult.
E.g. https://lifehopeandtruth.com/prophecy/prophets/false-prophets/simon-the-sorcerer/
Note in verse 24 Simon gave no hint that he repented at that time. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+8:9-24&version=KJV
 






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JoChris

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If you've never experienced the purity of God then your attitude towards sin and its consequences are going to be much different than a believer. Life on earth will be troublesome if you have accepted Jesus Christ but ignore the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin. I think the passage is about believers struggling with the temptation of sin, not about us going to hell.
The whole chapter is about false teachers. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+2&version=KJV
 






Violette

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Verses 1-17 refer to false teaches but verses 18-20 refer to people that are being mislead by false teachers.
“For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭2:18-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Wouldn't the phrases in bold refer to believers?
 






JoChris

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It is a difficult verse for sure!!!! I interpret that verse as applicable to both false teachers and their now disciples/ converts.

To be a false teacher a person has to first claim to be a Christian and teaching a perverted/ heretical form of Christianity. e.g. technically a Hindu who has never claimed to be a Christian can't be called a false teacher. False religion - YES from Christian perspective, False teacher NO - not applicable.
I found other verses helpful to back up that position.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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For me the clue is in the word 'dog'.

If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature.

Here, whoever is referred to was a 'dog' to begin with remains a 'dog' despite experiences of something better. Without a change in nature, the Christian life is impossible. As anyone who owns a dog knows, they quickly gravitate (especially when no-one is looking) to what comes naturally!

"Ye must be born again"

 






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Thunderian

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Backsliding and wandering a terrible distance from God definitely can happen. I was one of those wandering sheep.
Genuine believers in Jesus Christ will be drawn back eventually.
Praise God for his mercy.

The same chapter in 2 Peter tells us that Lot is considered righteous and just. When we think of the things that Lot did, we see how great the mercy and long-suffering of our Lord is.
 






floss

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Ephesians1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
- God does not break His promise

Ephesians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
- ever buy a house and put down earnest deposit? think about it

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

IF you can lose your salvation, you're adding WORKS unto keeping your salvation. BE CAREFUL!!! IF you can earn your salvation OR lose it, heaven WILL be empty. Think about it. NONE ARE GOOD in GOD's standard.

How can you remaineth good in GOD"s standard after obtained salvation in order to NOT lose it?
- it is impossible to remain in GOD's standard of goodness and righteousness

Romans 3:10-12King James Version (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 14:1-3King James Version (KJV)
1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 53:1-3King James Version (KJV)
1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
 






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Lisa

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As a saved person, you should now glorify and praise God for His eternal gift to you. Lose your salvation? Not on your life, and not on the life of Jesus Christ!

It’s much more simple than the author realizes..just fall away from the faith..

Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
‭‭​

Or shrink back..

Hebrews‬ ‭10:38-39‬ ‭
BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.​
‭‭
 






Lyfe

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I am personally of the belief that all those who fall away were never regenerated in the first place, or born again of the spirit of God. This passage got my attention a while back.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
John 6:62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

I used to go back and forth with OSAS, but ultimately came to the conclusion that if one is truly born again and become a new creature in Christ and been adopted as a son then it would be profoundly hard to fall away, which is why I believe that those who fell away were never regenerate. The Bible says we are sealed until the day of redemption and that no man can pluck us out of the fathers hands. Even in the book of 1st Corinthians there was a man among them that slept with his fathers wife and was chastised with the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit may live.

There are times I have backslid, but think about what it would take for someone who is a son of God and born by the spirit of God to fall away. If you have ever backslidden as a Christian you know it is a miserable place to be, because the whole time you are grieving yourself by grieving the spirit of God. To remain in a constant place of grieving the spirit of God is to remain in a place of great sadness and torment to the Christian. Not only that, but Gods word promises to chastise us in the book of Hebrews. He chastises us as his son.

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?


In order for a born again Christian to completely fall away he would have to endure and than somehow bypass not only his own nature as a new creation that shares the same disposition of sin as God, but also bypass Gods rod of correction as a loving father. I have backslid allot, but I have never been able to fall away to the point where I was able to bypass living in godly sorrow and a constant state of grieving the holy spirit, and then on top of it bypassing Gods rod of correction. He goes out and searches for that one sheep that is lost while leaving the 99 behind. If you truly belong to Christ than God will find you. Recently I was in a place where I could no longer feel conviction over sin, I couldnt feel God, nothing, but then one day in a near death experience God had visited me and brought me to repentance. Sometimes thats what it takes and sometimes thats what God allows.
 






A.J.

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I believe you have to consider that these are first generation Christians. It was no minor thing to have faith in Christ in that day. These are a privileged and blessed people who received a full revelation. So an outward profession of faith remains a big deal, even though they were ultimately without perseverance.
 






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Lyfe

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The book of revelation constantly uses the word overcome, but how do we overcome...

1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

I really believe that to adopt the belief that a born again child of God can fall away is to undermine the love of God. What parent would let their child perish, yet God is much more abounding in love and power than an earthly parent. We overcome by the spirit that is in us, because greater is he in us than he that is in the world.
 






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