No regard...for the desire of women

[Colonel Valerio]

context matters, you have a man who is king of thailand, who's lived a playboy lifestyle for most of his life. A woman marrying him, knows what she's getting involved with, but does it anyway. Why would anyone feel sorry for her? she's a glorified hooker.
you feel sad for her too?

@Serveto there's no need to champion islamic history, verses, quotes, stories etc. let people be ignorant and follow modern trends. a lot of transsexuals in the making. they're destroying themselves.

Sure let’s talk about the abysmal state of every Muslim majority country, its bloody scar left by the conquests, the tens of thousands of terrorist deaths a year, the honor killings and acid attacks, the excessive punishments and chronic human rights abuses.

 

[Daciple]

Do we need to find common ground?

I mean when you and your opposition are both being willfully ignorant and hard headed about the topic, then yes I would say common ground would be a good place to meet.

Is there something wrong with what I stated? Or are you just becoming the resident troll that tries to disagree with every person and every post?

Something has changed with you lately...

 

[justjess]

I mean when you and your opposition are both being willfully ignorant and hard headed about the topic, then yes I would say common ground would be a good place to meet.

Is there something wrong with what I stated? Or are you just becoming the resident troll that tries to disagree with every person and every post?

Something has changed with you lately...

I stated earlier in this thread... like two years ago.. that codifying any dress code into law is problematic. People should have the freedom to wear what they want.

I just find it hypocritical and dishonest to narrow in and criticize only one culture for its dress codes while ignoring many others who have similar practices in place.

 

[Daciple]

I just find it hypocritical and dishonest to narrow in and criticize only one culture for its dress codes while ignoring many others who have similar practices in place.

While we both agree with the idea of mandatory dressing, I do believe there is a difference between it in Islam and the other Cultures you have mentioned.

The biggest difference is that at its heart Islam is Theocratic, which means that when practiced as set out of the its Holy Text and Founder then these beliefs become literal Law. Even those who dont believe in Islam, that live in these areas, are mandated and therefore punished for not conforming to these ideals.

The State of Israel does not mandate a specific dress, regardless of Orthodox dress styles the State doesnt mandate via threat of force or violence that one must dress a specific way.

When it comes to Nuns, again that is a choice, no one is born into a State of Nunnery where they are forced, even if they dont want to, to wear a specific dress. The Nun enters into the Nunnery knowing that they must dress a certain way, and they can at anytime leave the Nunnery without violence.

These things can not be said in HUGE swaths of Islamic Communities or Countries. If you are Born or live there then you must dress accordingly or you will be met with violence or punishments. And that would be the difference between the other examples that you mentioned and Islam...

 

[DesertRose]

The biggest difference is that at its heart Islam is Theocratic, which means that when practiced as set out of the its Holy Text and Founder then these beliefs become literal Law. Even those who dont believe in Islam, that live in these areas, are mandated and therefore punished for not conforming to these ideals.

My dear Daciple who told you this?
What punishment is there for not wearing hijab ......that is news for me?
This is all untrue, stick to explaining your religion and stop making things up about mine.
The teachings are there and if one is faithful they can follow it or not.

 

[Robin]

What hate? I’m just stating facts...I hope you all are saved, and I don’t want you to perish in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Do, I take joy in being saved and others being damned to hell? My signature states we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God...I want people to believe and be saved.

Sweetheart, who are you planning on converting with words like that?

 

[justjess]

While we both agree with the idea of mandatory dressing, I do believe there is a difference between it in Islam and the other Cultures you have mentioned.

The biggest difference is that at its heart Islam is Theocratic, which means that when practiced as set out of the its Holy Text and Founder then these beliefs become literal Law. Even those who dont believe in Islam, that live in these areas, are mandated and therefore punished for not conforming to these ideals.

The State of Israel does not mandate a specific dress, regardless of Orthodox dress styles the State doesnt mandate via threat of force or violence that one must dress a specific way.

When it comes to Nuns, again that is a choice, no one is born into a State of Nunnery where they are forced, even if they dont want to, to wear a specific dress. The Nun enters into the Nunnery knowing that they must dress a certain way, and they can at anytime leave the Nunnery without violence.

These things can not be said in HUGE swaths of Islamic Communities or Countries. If you are Born or live there then you must dress accordingly or you will be met with violence or punishments. And that would be the difference between the other examples that you mentioned and Islam...

we cant really say that with certainty.. we have no other country that operates on religious law to compare with

the closest would be the vatican abd while yes nuns choose that voluntarily all women visiting the vatican are also subject to dress codes or they are denied entry. the vatican isnt a true state though, no one lives there but clergy so we cant say how they would apply this same dress code to female residents

israel is a secular state. most jewish people are jewish by heritage not religion. in the communities where they are religious we see the dress code strictly enforced. and homestly in brooklyn they very much do operate as their own country without the power of incarceration - own police and medical and social services etc - if they were allowed the ability to punish outside of excommunication from the community who knows if they would.. i certainly dont.

further i was under the belief that most christians welcome theocracy when jesus comes again - they bank on it. so why wouldnt these same rules get instituted how they already are in muslim theocracies? i see no reason why they wouldnt tbh. im pretty sure they will.

the amish again do not have the ability to enforce by law even if they wanted to so im not confortable saying what they would do if they did either way.

the beliefs about women and modesty are exactly the same in each case.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Sure let’s talk about the abysmal state of every Muslim majority country, its bloody scar left by the conquests, the tens of thousands of terrorist deaths a year, the honor killings and acid attacks, the excessive punishments and chronic human rights abuses.

1) I talked about the king of Thailand and his wife...obv in that context in referring to his wife as a glorified whore. I have my own mind and don't need to confine my views within a particular religious framework.
In reality if you read the Bible, Abraham himself had more than one wife and a concubine too.
Having a personal opinion here like @Lisa does is her own personal take and had nothing to do with religion itself. If she was a blind follower of Christianity she would say it's totally okay because Abraham did it too.
She's against that king's actions for her personal reasons.
Personally I don't see what the problem is in calling it what it is. Any situation where women marry men for financial reasons...it is blatantly whorish.

Now in going to bring Islam Into this and contrast island official position Vs my own.

In Islam, one of the 3 justified reasons for marraige...is money.
I remember once I was with a girl who told me that she wants a man who is rich. She thought it was perfectly justified because the prophet allowed it...and this was a girl who prays 5 times a day and half the words out of her mouth are islamic/Arabic routine words.
That was a wake up call for me...I realised quickly that people have their selfish interests and will find any excuse within the religious framework that suits them.
So I told this girl that the actual reason why such a marraige is allowed is because of abject poverty in the early period of Islam aswell as in many parts of the world. Whereas this girl had a regular job and was only seeking a man who would give her a dream materialistic lifestyle...shes an Instagrammer.

I've obv seen countless examples from all types of backgrounds Inc Islamic..but will give you an example of how Muslim women abuse the system to suit themselves.

So there are a number of English speaking sheikhs in the west. These guys try to be appealing because they want lots of followers, so they can do tours and make money. These guys don't usually give a proper rounded answer to the females...they spoon-feed them the typical Feminist answer.
Eg a girl asks a sheikh...if her husband is allowed to ask her to cook and clean the house.
The sheikh says "in Islam...no..a man has to help her..she isn't obligated to cook for him. Her duty is towards the house and family". In another example a girl asks "my husband wants me to contribute towards the bills from my salary..is that allowed in islam?"
The sheikh tells her "no..in Islam is a wife takes care of the house and children, she can work in her own time and what she earns is hers. Your husband however has to pay for everything..it's his job as a man".

Basically the sheikh says this because it's the marketable way isn't it? So naturally this fella has thousands of female followers and growing.
What most those girls don't know is this sheikh does this precisely to get female devotees so he can FUCK them later after doing a secret nikah.
That's the sort of world we live in.

But what happens from such answers/verdicts of sheikhs like this? Many Muslim women in the west feel enabled to act out and take advantage of islams generous position..which applies to the nikah system. They will get both an Islamic nikah aswell as an official registered marraige license.
Whilst married they will insist that in Islam it says a women doesn't need to go 50-50 for example (amongst other things) in living costs/bills. So the man will pay for everything. However when they divorce...the girl will try her best to get everything. It isn't hard to do either.
Divorce rates amongst Muslims in the west are growing at an alarming rate.
I have far more females in my family...they look out for my interests...they are honest about what most women are like and don't hide behind "feminism" or throw around pathetic terms like "misogyny" out of context..
Of course I'm not ignorant enough to apply this to all women..but certainly to most.
Why? We live in a real fucked up time.

2) you took offense to me bringing up transexuals. Why?
I don't know what religious or school of thought you follow, but why would you be dumb enough to follow modern cultural "norms" that are shoved down our throats through the media?
You realise you're being controlled? Even throwing around terms like "misogyny" proves you're following a spoonfed agenda.

3) you had to bring up terrorism, acid attacks, honor killings?
Maybe you should stop watching fox news and Zionist media?

Fyi
Terrorism was a byproduct of the cold war era. You think Islam justifies suicide bombings? Suicide is haram...killing civilians in the process is not Islamic.
Terrorists aren't even 0.01% of the Muslim population. Also we know groups like Al Qaeda and Isis are western creations.
In the jpost...there was an article exposing the fact Israel was allied with Al-nusra front (Al Qaeeda)..arming, giving medical aid, money, training and given Intelligence to. They wanted Al Qaeeda to topple the Syrian regime.
Who the fuck are you to bring up terrorism then? Embarrassing yourself with this shit.

Acid attacks aren't Islamic Lmfao...
In hadith it says "don't hit the face" because "we were made in God's image" (one of those absurd hadith I reject btw) but yeh in Islam even in war...the face isn't supposed to be targeted. Acid attacks are personal.
They aren't done by Muslims only...in fact most are done by none muslims.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4016850/acid-attacks-uk-london-statistics-westbourne-grove/

Honor killings? Cultural backwardness...I agree with you on this one..but again it isn't a norm it's still a rare thing.


4) basically you have shitty stereotypical ideas of the Muslim world.
You need to stop watching fox news.
Lots of great YouTube content

This is pakistan

This guy is Jewish...he says he was taught to hate Muslims...and his perception changed when he visited Muslim countries (hes travelled to every country in the world).

Really there are loads of similar videos.
When people simply go there and see what the average person is like..they stop believing in that spoonfed propaganda.

I live in England...for the most part...it's a wonderful place, great people, I love it. However I know for sure we're living under the mystery babylon system and everything in modern music, TV and media is...intended to program us. The food just like the US is poison too.
Were given spoon-fed manufactured debates to waste our time on...

however...I don't for a single second believe the west is evil and the Muslim world is pure. I believe people are mostly fucked up when you get to know them.
i don't adhere to something blindly just because Islam says so...I question the context aswell as it's authenticity too.

My mentality is DTA.
that's not an Islamic mentality at all.

 

[Daciple]

My dear Daciple who told you this?
What punishment is there for not wearing hijab ......that is news for me?
This is all untrue, stick to explaining your religion and stop making things up about mine.
The teachings are there and if one is faithful they can follow it or not.

Please stop acting willfully ignorant, you and I both know that in Islamic Countries and in Islamic Communities that are strict to the Quran, Hadiths and enfore Sharia that there are punishments for women who are caught in public without a man or not wearing the Hijab/Burka.

Are you really so willfully ignorant to tell me that this doesnt exist?

People would be much more willing to side or help with Muslims who are moderate if the moderate Muslims would stop burying their head in the sand concerning the way Islam is strictly enforced in Muslim Nations and communities thru out the World.

In Iran, since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the Hijab has become compulsory. Women are required to wear loose-fitting clothing and a headscarf in public.

On 1 February 2018, the Law Enforcement Force of the Islamic Republic of Iran released a statement saying that they had arrested 29 people, mostly women, for removing their headscarves against a law that did not allow women to be in public without wearing an Islamic veil.[109][115] One woman, Shima Babaei, was arrested after removing her headdress in front of a court as a symbol of her continued dedication to the cause.

On 23 February 2018, Iranian Police released an official statement saying that any women found protesting Iran's compulsory veiling code would be charged with "inciting corruption and prostitution," which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.[116] Before this change, according to article 638 of the Islamic Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran, "Anyone in public places and roads who openly commits a harām (sinful) act, in addition to the punishment provided for the act, shall be sentenced to two months imprisonment or up to 74 lashes; and if they commit an act that is not punishable but violates public prudency, they shall only be sentenced to ten days to two months’ imprisonment or up to 74 lashes. Note- Women who appear in public places and roads without wearing an Islamic hijab, shall be sentenced to ten days to two months’ imprisonment or a fine of fifty thousand to five hundred Rials."[117] After this change, any woman found without an islamic veil in a public space, will be charged according to article 639 of the Islamic Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which states: "The following individuals shall be sentenced to one year to ten years imprisonment and in respect to paragraph (A), in addition to the punishment provided, the relevant place shall be closed temporarily at the discretion of the court. A - Anyone who establishes or directs a place of immorality or prostitution. B - Anyone facilitates or encourages people to immorality or prostitution."[117]

In south Iraq, particularly in the Shi'a holy cities of Najaf and Karbala, custom requires women to wear hijab.

Saudi Arabian dress code legally requires all women, local and foreign, to wear an abaya, a garment that covers the body and arms in public.[138][139] According to most Salafi scholars, a woman is to cover her entire body, including her face and hands, in front of unrelated men. Hence, the vast majority of traditional Saudi women are expected to cover their body and hair in public.[140][141][142][143][144]
The Saudi niqāb usually leaves a long open slot for the eyes; the slot is held together by a string or narrow strip of cloth.[145]
The Saudi burqa is a typically black garment that completely covers a woman head to toe, including a veil that covers her face, with a mesh window across the eyes to see out of.[146][147]

While the hijab is not explicitly mandated by law, Sudanese women are required to dress modestly in public. Due to Sudan's vaguely worded Public Order law, there are no delineated parameters of what constitutes immodest dress. The law states: “Whoever does in a public place an indecent act or an act contrary to public morals or wears an obscene outfit or contrary to public morals or causing an annoyance to public feelings shall be punished with flogging which may not exceed forty lashes or with fine or with both.”[150] In 2013, the case of Amira Osman Hamid came to international attention when she chose to expose her hair in public, in opposition to the nation's public-order laws

Although there is no dress code that legally forces veiling upon women in Yemen, the abaya and niqab are considered social norms in Yemen and are imposed on girls at a young age. In some areas, the hijab has become a formal part of school uniforms. Yemeni women who choose to not cover themselves with any Islamic headscarf are at risk of facing oppression.

Successful informal coercion of women by sectors of society to wear Islamic dress or hijab has been reported in the Gaza Strip where Mujama' al-Islami, the predecessor of Hamas, reportedly used a mixture of consent and coercion to "'restore' hijab" on urban-educated women in Gaza in the late 1970s and 1980s.[172]Similar behavior was displayed by Hamas during the First Intifada.[173] Hamas campaigned for the wearing of the hijab alongside other measures, including insisting that women stay at home, they should be segregated from men, and for the promotion of polygamy. During the course of this campaign women who chose not to wear the hijab were verbally and physically harassed, with the result that the hijab was being worn "just to avoid problems on the streets".[174]
Following the takeover of the Gaza Strip in June 2007, Hamas has attempted to implement Islamic law in the Gaza Strip, mainly at schools, institutions and courts by imposing the Islamic dress or hijab on women.[175]

In 2007, the Islamic group Swords of Truth threatened to behead female TV broadcasters if they didn't wear the hijab. "We will cut throats, and from vein to vein, if needed to protect the spirit and moral of this nation," their statement said. The group also accused the women broadcasters of being "without any ... shame or morals". Personal threats against female broadcasters were also sent to the women's mobile phones, though it was not clear if these threats were from the same group. Gazan anchorwomen interviewed by Associated Press said that they were frightened by the Swords of Truth statement.[177]

In February 2011, Hamas banned the styling of women's hair, continuing its policy of enforcing Sharia upon women's clothing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#Lebanon

And that is just the info found on Wiki let alone a through and dedicated search to find how many and countries enforce such laws, all of which are directly tied to the Religion itself.

Now you can either continue to be willfully ignorant about the reality of the situation and lie to yourself and others about what is going on in your Religion and its tendency to enforce these Laws upon your fellow sisters, OR you can accept the fact this is REAL and speak out against it.

However you can no longer sit on this forum and tell others it doesnt exist and blah blah blah like you tried to do to me.

I specifically stated I was trying to find the common ground between the two extremes, you dear represent one of the extremes, the bury my head in the sand this doesnt exist or represent Islam.

Sorry its reality and millons of Muslims practice and live under this type of oppression. Maybe you should learn a bit more about your own Religion if you want to deny the reality of it and act as tho millions of your sisters are not oppressed every single day by the Islamic Law of their communities and countries...

Just as Lisa is being willfully ignorant about the other peoples and religions that partake in similar practices (although not to the degree or governmental aspect) you dear are willfully ignorant about the Islamic side. Stop, be real, speak out for your sisters being oppressed and demand change in Islamic Law, otherwise dont talk to me about knowing your Religion...

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Daciple it's because of the Iran Vs British petroleum dispute that the Brits and Americans overthrew the iranian democratic government and put in the Shah of Iran...during which time the place became decadent...athiestic and so forth because they actively pushed those values onto the public. Then the Shia revolution happened.
This is now political than it is moral. They don't want to promote western values in iran.
You can't use examples like that.

I doubt a guy like you even knew about the recent politics in Iran esp/Inc the british petroleum dispute.

Reactions from repeated provocation don't reflect a person's original mindset.
Iran was historically one of the most liberal (and enlightened) parts of the Muslim world. Until it became Shia under force because of group of guys had beef with the ottoman Sunnis.

The only examples you can offer arent organic examples...they're politically influenced. Eg wahabism in Saudi Arabia or current Iran. Even the hudood ordinances in Pakistan were pushed by a dictator who was western backed (Zia UL haq...who massacred Palestinians) and a friend of house saud.
Islam doesnt encourage forcing women to cover up. You've never travelled to Muslim countries to understand how society is structured. You've never even met many Muslims I bet.

 

[DesertRose]

Please stop acting willfully ignorant, you and I both know that in Islamic Countries and in Islamic Communities that are strict to the Quran, Hadiths and enfore Sharia that there are punishments for women who are caught in public without a man or not wearing the Hijab/Burka.

Are you really so willfully ignorant to tell me that this doesnt exist?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know the difference between culture and religion?
There are zero Islamic verses or hadiths that have a punishment for not wearing hijab.
Bring me your proof! One verse or hadith that mentions a punishment for not wearing hijab.
I speak for Islam, not what some people may do somewhere. Ignorance is prevalent throughout the world among many cultures including yours.

Are there some cultures that have problematic customs that have enforced something that Islam has not enforced.....a resounding yes!

Don't you have Christians or Jews who use their religion to enforce things not enforceable in Christianity and Judaism? Amish/Mennonites/Orthodox Jews?
@justjess has aptly highlighted this singling out that some of you are doing.

Wake up and smell the coffee the bogeymen you guys build are far from the reality on the ground even in many Arabian countries.
Muslim majority nations in the world from Indonesia to Nigeria have their own cultures and the gender relations are diverse as well.
Many need to travel and stop stereotyping.

Below Khalid Al Ameri from UAE busting these stereotypes in regards to UAE.
BE AFRAID OF US

 

[Colonel Valerio]

1) I talked about the king of Thailand and his wife...obv in that context in referring to his wife as a glorified whore. I have my own mind and don't need to confine my views within a particular religious framework.
In reality if you read the Bible, Abraham himself had more than one wife and a concubine too.
Having a personal opinion here like @Lisa does is her own personal take and had nothing to do with religion itself. If she was a blind follower of Christianity she would say it's totally okay because Abraham did it too.
She's against that king's actions for her personal reasons.
Personally I don't see what the problem is in calling it what it is. Any situation where women marry men for financial reasons...it is blatantly whorish.

Now in going to bring Islam Into this and contrast island official position Vs my own.

In Islam, one of the 3 justified reasons for marraige...is money.
I remember once I was with a girl who told me that she wants a man who is rich. She thought it was perfectly justified because the prophet allowed it...and this was a girl who prays 5 times a day and half the words out of her mouth are islamic/Arabic routine words.
That was a wake up call for me...I realised quickly that people have their selfish interests and will find any excuse within the religious framework that suits them.
So I told this girl that the actual reason why such a marraige is allowed is because of abject poverty in the early period of Islam aswell as in many parts of the world. Whereas this girl had a regular job and was only seeking a man who would give her a dream materialistic lifestyle...shes an Instagrammer.

I've obv seen countless examples from all types of backgrounds Inc Islamic..but will give you an example of how Muslim women abuse the system to suit themselves.

So there are a number of English speaking sheikhs in the west. These guys try to be appealing because they want lots of followers, so they can do tours and make money. These guys don't usually give a proper rounded answer to the females...they spoon-feed them the typical Feminist answer.
Eg a girl asks a sheikh...if her husband is allowed to ask her to cook and clean the house.
The sheikh says "in Islam...no..a man has to help her..she isn't obligated to cook for him. Her duty is towards the house and family". In another example a girl asks "my husband wants me to contribute towards the bills from my salary..is that allowed in islam?"
The sheikh tells her "no..in Islam is a wife takes care of the house and children, she can work in her own time and what she earns is hers. Your husband however has to pay for everything..it's his job as a man".

Basically the sheikh says this because it's the marketable way isn't it? So naturally this fella has thousands of female followers and growing.
What most those girls don't know is this sheikh does this precisely to get female devotees so he can FUCK them later after doing a secret nikah.
That's the sort of world we live in.

But what happens from such answers/verdicts of sheikhs like this? Many Muslim women in the west feel enabled to act out and take advantage of islams generous position..which applies to the nikah system. They will get both an Islamic nikah aswell as an official registered marraige license.
Whilst married they will insist that in Islam it says a women doesn't need to go 50-50 for example (amongst other things) in living costs/bills. So the man will pay for everything. However when they divorce...the girl will try her best to get everything. It isn't hard to do either.
Divorce rates amongst Muslims in the west are growing at an alarming rate.
I have far more females in my family...they look out for my interests...they are honest about what most women are like and don't hide behind "feminism" or throw around pathetic terms like "misogyny" out of context..
Of course I'm not ignorant enough to apply this to all women..but certainly to most.
Why? We live in a real fucked up time.

2) you took offense to me bringing up transexuals. Why?
I don't know what religious or school of thought you follow, but why would you be dumb enough to follow modern cultural "norms" that are shoved down our throats through the media?
You realise you're being controlled? Even throwing around terms like "misogyny" proves you're following a spoonfed agenda.

3) you had to bring up terrorism, acid attacks, honor killings?
Maybe you should stop watching fox news and Zionist media?

Fyi
Terrorism was a byproduct of the cold war era. You think Islam justifies suicide bombings? Suicide is haram...killing civilians in the process is not Islamic.
Terrorists aren't even 0.01% of the Muslim population. Also we know groups like Al Qaeda and Isis are western creations.
In the jpost...there was an article exposing the fact Israel was allied with Al-nusra front (Al Qaeeda)..arming, giving medical aid, money, training and given Intelligence to. They wanted Al Qaeeda to topple the Syrian regime.
Who the fuck are you to bring up terrorism then? Embarrassing yourself with this shit.

Acid attacks aren't Islamic Lmfao...
In hadith it says "don't hit the face" because "we were made in God's image" (one of those absurd hadith I reject btw) but yeh in Islam even in war...the face isn't supposed to be targeted. Acid attacks are personal.
They aren't done by Muslims only...in fact most are done by none muslims.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4016850/acid-attacks-uk-london-statistics-westbourne-grove/

Honor killings? Cultural backwardness...I agree with you on this one..but again it isn't a norm it's still a rare thing.


4) basically you have shitty stereotypical ideas of the Muslim world.
You need to stop watching fox news.
Lots of great YouTube content

This is pakistan

This guy is Jewish...he says he was taught to hate Muslims...and his perception changed when he visited Muslim countries (hes travelled to every country in the world).

Really there are loads of similar videos.
When people simply go there and see what the average person is like..they stop believing in that spoonfed propaganda.

I live in England...for the most part...it's a wonderful place, great people, I love it. However I know for sure we're living under the mystery babylon system and everything in modern music, TV and media is...intended to program us. The food just like the US is poison too.
Were given spoon-fed manufactured debates to waste our time on...

however...I don't for a single second believe the west is evil and the Muslim world is pure. I believe people are mostly fucked up when you get to know them.
i don't adhere to something blindly just because Islam says so...I question the context aswell as it's authenticity too.

My mentality is DTA.
that's not an Islamic mentality at all.

*yawn* it’s the Jews it’s the West, it’s culture and we have nothing to do with all the atrocities committed in n our name. You’re as boring as the Christians.

Blah blah blah decadence and atheism you sound like Bin Laden’s mentor bitching about Jazz.

There is only one Muslim im sure of here who doesn’t want a theocracy and this is how Muslims treat r*pe victims which is just building on what that bastard who created your pre cursor religions started

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atefeh_Sahaaleh

So I couldn’t give one shit about Abraham because he himself was a piece of shit.

 

[AspiringSoul]

*yawn* it’s the Jews it’s the West, it’s culture and we have nothing to do with all the atrocities committed in n our name. You’re as boring as the Christians.

Blah blah blah decadence and atheism you sound like Bin Laden’s mentor bitching about Jazz.

There is only one Muslim im sure of here who doesn’t want a theocracy and this is how Muslims treat r*pe victims which is just building on what that bastard who created your pre cursor religions started

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atefeh_Sahaaleh

So I couldn’t give one shit about Abraham because he himself was a piece of shit.

1) your response is predictable bs. Your view of Muslim countries is largely based on what you've been fed by Zionist media. When did I start blaming Jews...for you to respond with "*yawn* Jews did it"?
I said Zionist media (and it IS Zionist media) brainwashes you with negative narratives of Muslim countries.
2) I was responding to daciple when I brought up the Iranian-british oil dispute...and if you deny that the dispute led to today's iranian regine..then you're a complete dumb fuck.
3) anyone can throw around bad examples from any society on earth....there are billions of humans so law of averages there will be a ton of injustice too. That's not how you pass judgement.
Oh yeh I did bring up Jews in one context..the youtuber Drew Binsky himself revealed that his family/Jewish upbringing caused him to be suspicious/hateful towards muslims. Then he travelled to every country on earth and came to the conclusion that Muslims were the nicest people on earth!!
4) I said Iran was decadent under the Shah of Iran. It's true ..it was corrupt, had a shit economy and was very much the west's biggest bitch. The majority of Iranians were in poverty and people were jailed for speaking up.
Only the well off had a nice time.


You just don't have the balls to actually step back process what I've said and accept the fact you're full of shit mate.
You're not a rebel coming with that "fuck Abraham" talk.
Lol @ "Abraham was a peice of shit too".
Yeh real hard bastard you are.

Let's be honest you've lost your RAG because I called a whore...a whore. And I said something about transexuals.

These statements touched a nerve didn't they?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Sure let’s talk about the abysmal state of every Muslim majority country, its bloody scar left by the conquests, the tens of thousands of terrorist deaths a year, the honor killings and acid attacks, the excessive punishments and chronic human rights abuses.

Why did you ignore the statistic that revealed the UK was one of the worst places for acid attacks..esp London? It proves you don't know wtf you're talking about.

what about US human rights violations? Abu ghurayb? It's only 60 yrs ago blacks were still lynched in public.

Honour killings are practiced across the board eg hindus and Sikhs do it too. It's Def cultural.

Basically you've come in here with shit arguments.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Out of the 5 Muslims on here...you 'only' know one who doesn't want an Islamic theocracy? And what made you randomly bring that up? What made you think I support an Islamic theocracy? Not long ago I was being dissed for supporting the Turkish revolution eg secularism.
But it has a context...I don't believe in the current era the so called religious Muslims in positions of power are capable of making wise choices. I believe most of them are dumb sectarianists with egos and lack of self control....and I'd rather they were silenced then given more power.
So I do support secular democratic states as the lesser evil (only because democracy is a farce..voting is rigged). Iran was a true secular democracy until US-british intervention due to the oil dispute.
You have no right to use human rights abuses from the Shia regime in recent times...of Iran was left alone we wouldn't have these problems.

 

[Lisa]

I mean when you and your opposition are both being willfully ignorant and hard headed about the topic, then yes I would say common ground would be a good place to meet.

Is there something wrong with what I stated? Or are you just becoming the resident troll that tries to disagree with every person and every post?

Something has changed with you lately...

I didn’t think I was being hard headed about the topic, I think it really does fit in with my premise that the antichrist is against the desires of women. A muslim women’s dress is not modesty but an outward sign that something is terribly wrong with the way islam views women. That is my opinion and I would be happy to change it if islam would ban the burka. The opposite end of the spectrum is bikini’s that show way too much flesh. I even say in my op that objectifying women is wrong as well..but we all seem to only be able to talk about islam, when I mentioned more that that in my op...and maybe that’s the common ground you are looking for?

I can disagree with what people write just like people can disagree with me.

What do you think has changed with me?

 

[Lisa]

Sweetheart, who are you planning on converting with words like that?

I don’t plan on converting anyone, that’s not my job. My job is to share the truth of the Bible, truths that aren’t easy to hear and seem to push people away, not everyone followed Jesus you know?

 

[Lisa]

1) I talked about the king of Thailand and his wife...obv in that context in referring to his wife as a glorified whore. I have my own mind and don't need to confine my views within a particular religious framework.
In reality if you read the Bible, Abraham himself had more than one wife and a concubine too.
Having a personal opinion here like @Lisa does is her own personal take and had nothing to do with religion itself. If she was a blind follower of Christianity she would say it's totally okay because Abraham did it too.
She's against that king's actions for her personal reasons.
Personally I don't see what the problem is in calling it what it is. Any situation where women marry men for financial reasons...it is blatantly whorish.

Didn’t Abraham marry again after Sarah died? And he had Ishmael with Hagar because Sarah didn’t get pregnant and they thought they had to have the child of promise in a way that they could understand.

Ya, I’m not gonna say adultery or polygamy is ok.

Exodus 20:14
Do not commit adultery​

Mark 10:6-8
From the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.​

Not everything done by people in the Bible is ok just because they did it. People in the Bible sinned too, doesn’t mean God condoned it.

I see what the king did as a slap in the face to his wife, why would she want to share her husband? Idk why she married the king, but he should respect his marriage vows and stay with the wife only.

 

[Sunshine]

I have to say this....

Bothers me.

I call it a Portable Cage. And really, covered in black from head to toe in the freaking desert? Sounds highly uncomfortable, designed not just to maximize "modesty", but to impair a woman's mobility and ability to physically navigate and manipulate her word. Could you imaging trying to carry groceries or strap a kid into a car seat with all that cloth getting in the way? Yeesh.

I take "the desire of women" to mean that the anti-Christ disregards those concerns most basic to women in general. Issues of family and security, self-actualization, even that fundamental urge to Care and Nurture and Help others, that we find so lacking in most of the men who have historically held power in politics and society. It is the balance to the urges men have to conquer and control and make war.

 

[DevaWolf]

No regard for the desire of women. Yeah that's obvious from the writing of those books. Yet I am still told that being Christian is the best thing a woman can be and she will be treated the best by a Christian in the same breath.

Somewhere those two things don't add up.