No regard...for the desire of women

Lisa

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Exactly it's what YOU think God wanted for woman.

I meant the need for large families was based on survival. It was almost impossible to live as a single person alone. Being part of a large family was beneficial for survival. Today that need doesn't exist for survival.


I'm not denying the advantage of a stay at home mom at all. I think it is ideal also. But in our modern day and age that's only typically 20 years out of a lifespan of 80 years. (Or do you think stay at mom homes should be like the Bates and Duggards and have 20 kids?) What's a stay at home Mom supposed to do the the other 40 years of her adult life?

You might be right about the gender war thing, but like anything there is the extreme at both ends. I just think you are bit in the opposite extreme that's all. There is nothing wrong with feeling the way you do or wanting what you are describing I just think you can't put that on all women.
Deep down I think all women want that yes, but now it’s harder to have that is all I’m saying. I’m not even talking about big families just a family.

One wonders what society would look like now if women were able to stay at home and not go to work to help pay the bills?

As to what women do after the kids are grown, well I guess that was the catalyst that started it all..and I don’t have an answer to that honestly without mentioning that God would be the one to talk to.
 





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I don't compare myself to Christian's here. I don't compare myself to anyone except Jesus Christ, who I have thus far failed to live up to. But as he is my example of how to live the perfect spirit led life and how to be 100% submitted to the will of God, I will continue to compare myself to him and continue to repent when I fall short.

The scriptures you listed above never say anything about believing Jesus is God. They talk about believing in the Son. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, so I pass your "checklist" with flying colors. You are the one adding something to scripture that isn't there.
You are forgetting, it seems, one thing...

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.​
HEBREWS 4:15

No human is capable of living without sin. Not one. If there was, we wouldn't need a savior.. obviously.
 





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I think that is what I’ve been doing. If I stop calling myself a Christian and call myself a follower of the way would that stop you from attacking me?
It might help, but it might also confuse. St. Paul, when defending himself against the charge of heresy, often translated as "sect," also claimed to be a follower of "the way."
 





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It might help, but it might also confuse. St. Paul, when defending himself against the charge of heresy, often translated as "sect," also claimed to be a follower of "the way."
True,but it was at this time that Paul was making it appear he followed “the way” to deflect the accusations the Jewish believers had against him. We know this was typical of Paul as he wrote about using deception to win people over in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.
 





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True,but it was at this time that Paul was making it appear he followed “the way” to deflect the accusations the Jewish believers had against him. We know this was typical of Paul as he wrote about using deception to win people over in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.
It's, like, what? Say this again, bro Paul :cool:.
 





Robin

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Because I think that God who made us, and made us with the bodies to have babies, made us to be nurturers created us for that reason. I know He created us to help our husbands. Now there’s woman’s equality and women trying so hard to act like they are just like men. A gender war was created when God has an order to things..there can’t be two heads in a household, if a house is divided against itself it cannot stand Mark 3:25. You can’t have two heads. I see where women were feeling like they had no say in previous generations, but taking it all on themselves to fix the problem and not going to God was the wrong approach.
So according to your beliefs God only created women to be a servant and broodmare? You're just a womb? So men get to be and do whatever they want but a woman's place is only to help and bear children? And for the record, it's very difficult to survive and provide for a family in today's economic climate with only one person's salary.
 





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@Lisa,

How much ragard for the desire of women would you say that St. Paul had when he recommended that the widows and unmarried at Corinth remain unmarried, as he was. Is that the solution to the "war between the sexes," that women not marry us guys in the first place and thus save themselves trouble and heartache?
 





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We know this was typical of Paul as he wrote about using deception to win people over in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.
You have been called out about this before, this is why we call you a liar Todd, because that is what you are doing. Paul NEVER used deception to win people over, that is YOUR tactic not Pauls, and if you are so spiritually blind to think that 1 Cor 9:19-23 means deception then your heart is utterly hardened against the Truth and is completely turned to stone...

I just wonder what really happened to you man? You can say all this stuff about God did this to show you that, but I honestly dont believe it. What did MAN do to you, that hurt you so deeply that you turned from the Truth of God to create your own Religion in spite of the MAN or MEN that hurt you?

I know that is what the real case is here, maybe one day you want to share what it really is that happened to you at your Church, or maybe you fell into Sin and felt rejected by MAN for doing so, or you feel your own Sin ought to lead you to Hell so its easier to reject the Truth concerning it and instead search out different ideologies that dont bring such conviction upon you, I dont know exactly but I am sure it more along those lines than God showed me this and that. That is just an excuse for you to continue rejecting the Truth as you pile more and more lies upon yourself...

Here is what 1 Cor 9:19-23 says for those who are not familiar with Scripture:

1 Cor 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

This has absolutely nothing to do with deception, it is exactly what has been spoken of with Lisa concerning Red, finding a COMMON GROUND with others so that you can show and preach to them the Gospel. When Paul was around the Jews he would speak in terms the Jews would understand, follow traditions they held (that didnt dispute the Gospel) so not to offend them ect, in hopes of being able to preach to them the Gospel of Christ. There are literal examples of this in Scripture and it is NOT him being deceitful.

Same with the Greeks, Mars Hill, he spoke to them in a way that resonated with how they worshiped already, whats the point of trying to speak to the Greeks who knew little to nothing about Jewish History, their Laws or Customs? It wouldnt benefit them at all, he would of lost them as an audience, so he spoke to them about the unknown God they were worshiping and declared the one True God to them in that manner.

There is nothing about deception in these verses, only a willfully ignorant or hardened heart would even remotely come to think such nonsense.

And in case you decided to bring up 2 Corth 12, which I am sure youd love to as you have in the past, here is what I wrote back then when you tried to lie about Paul concerning this same topic:


Stop Todd, your hatred of Paul blinds you to what he is saying, its disheartening to watch this constantly come from you.

But be it so, I did not burden you,.... These words are not spoken by the apostle in his own person of himself, but in the person of his adversaries, and contain a concession and an objection of theirs, but be it so; they granted that he had not burdened the Corinthians, that he had took nothing of them himself for preaching the Gospel; they owned that he had preached it freely; this was so clear a point, and so flagrant a case, that they could not deny it; yet they insinuated to the Corinthians, and objected to the apostle, that though he did not receive anything from them with his own hands, yet he craftily and cunningly made use of others to drain their purses, and receive it for him; and which is suggested in the next clause:

nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile; so say the false apostles of me; for these are not the words of the apostle in his own person; nor to be understood of any spiritual craft, or lawful cunning and prudent artifices used by him, to allure and draw the Corinthians into a good liking and opinion of the Gospel and of his ministry, and so caught them, and was the happy means of their conversion; but they are spoken in the person of the false apostles, charging him with a wicked and criminal craftiness, by making use of other persons in a sly underhanded way, to get this church's money, when he pretended to preach the Gospel freely; to which he answers in the next verse.

You cant even discern what Paul is saying here, you really need to stop leaning on all your Paul Hating Sources to try and bring Paul into contention with the Church, the other Apostles, Christ or God. Read the next verse and the verse after that, Paul didnt defraud anyone, and he asks them outright IS HE really guilty of the things you quoted. Ugh your discernment is horrible...

2 Cor 12:17 Did I make a gain of you by any of them whom I sent unto you?
18 I desired Titus, and with him I sent a brother. Did Titus make a gain of you? walked we not in the same spirit? walked we not in the same steps?


All the Christians here can see thru your deceptions, I hope that as we expose you over and over, those who are not Christians begin to pick up on the FACT that there is you and your false gospel that hates Paul and then ALL of the Christians who are continually calling for you to Repent of your deception and false gospel.

I have yet to see ONE other person who has declared Christ as their Savior to take sides with you on pretty much any issue that you ardently argue for while I have seen pretty much ALL the other people who have declared Christ as their Savior rebuke you over and over, how hard head must one be NOT to heed the cries of so many Christian brothers?
 





Lisa

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@Lisa,

How much ragard for the desire of women would you say that St. Paul had when he recommended that the widows and unmarried at Corinth remain unmarried, as he was. Is that the solution to the "war between the sexes," that women not marry us guys in the first place and thus save themselves trouble and heartache?
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7:8-9‬ ‭
But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.​
 





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‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7:8-9‬ ‭​

But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.​
So, in other words, you unmarried guys only marry if you have an uncontrollable woody?
 





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Lisa

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So according to your beliefs God only created women to be a servant and broodmare? You're just a womb? So men get to be and do whatever they want but a woman's place is only to help and bear children? And for the record, it's very difficult to survive and provide for a family in today's economic climate with only one person's salary.
Whats wring with being created to help your partner and to have children anyway?

Is it a jealousy thing for you? Men get to do whatever they want? Do they really? They have to work their whole lives, I don’t call that doing whatever they want. And women are just a womb? No but they have a womb and men don’t...what does that tell you?
 





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It's, like, what? Say this again, bro Paul :cool:.
Man, you really trying to think that this saying that Paul is lying for God? I always found you to be a bit more intelligent to think such a thing, again Context would be rather helpful I think...

Or else we can say Jesus likes to rage and beat people...

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Obviously Paul is NOT saying that he lies to bring God glory, he is using this as a polemic concerning Grace vs Law. Just as others try and accuse us today of just being all about jumping into Sin because of Gods Grace, Paul is confronting that ignorant logic. He is setting up a False Premise stemming from a False Belief that if God gets Glory if someone lies then how can we be under judgement for lying.

I am hoping you are being tongue in cheek but others may take you seriously in helping to perpetuate the lie Todd has stated...
 





Robin

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Whats wring with being created to help your partner and to have children anyway?

Is it a jealousy thing for you? Men get to do whatever they want? Do they really? They have to work their whole lives, I don’t call that doing whatever they want. And women are just a womb? No but they have a womb and men don’t...what does that tell you?
What's wrong is that it seems you (and God apparently) think that's the only thing a woman is worth. That makes it seem like women are nothing more than an accessory.

No, I'm not jealous because I don't ascribe to the sexist religion you do where my place is being barefoot and pregnant for two thirds of my life. Women work too, whether they have families or not. Most people work nowadays. So why is it that a woman "goes against her nature" if she chooses to stay single and childless yet a man won't get shamed if he does the same thing? Why do men not need to get married and have children with the same urgency then? It's not about jealousy it's about stupid double standards. You're about a century too late for that kind of mindset.
 





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So he doesn’t say that you can only remain unmarried does he?
Marriage is often idolized and idealized in the church and that may be affecting you. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 states "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God."

Sex is about self-control and submission to God for believers. Self-control is applicable across the board to everything: eating, drinking, shopping, partying or playing more than working, what you say, what emotions you express, etc. So like @Serveto has brought up, if the sex drive is too strong or one's desirous of marriage and a good opportunity arises with a partner one can be equally yoked with, go for it. If not, then don't. Either way, there's freedom and marriage and singleness are both gifts from God. Singleness shouldn't be the gift nobody wants even though it often is. So if you think all women are desperate for a husband and children, that's promoting idolatry. Singleness is a gift, too, and it doesn't make me or any other single, sing!e again, divorced, widowed woman selfish to not go jump on the biological clock wagon and be anxious to get hitched. Being anxious and jumping on the next man is idolatry. Not every man nor woman for that matter is sent to you by God. Why else would 50% of all divorces also be occurring in the church? Among people who claim to be Christians? Could it be that Christians idolize marriage and family? Yes, yes they do. Is this Biblical? No, no it is not.
 





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You have been called out about this before, this is why we call you a liar Todd, because that is what you are doing. Paul NEVER used deception to win people over, that is YOUR tactic not Pauls, and if you are so spiritually blind to think that 1 Cor 9:19-23 means deception then your heart is utterly hardened against the Truth and is completely turned to stone...

I just wonder what really happened to you man? You can say all this stuff about God did this to show you that, but I honestly dont believe it. What did MAN do to you, that hurt you so deeply that you turned from the Truth of God to create your own Religion in spite of the MAN or MEN that hurt you?

I know that is what the real case is here, maybe one day you want to share what it really is that happened to you at your Church, or maybe you fell into Sin and felt rejected by MAN for doing so, or you feel your own Sin ought to lead you to Hell so its easier to reject the Truth concerning it and instead search out different ideologies that dont bring such conviction upon you, I dont know exactly but I am sure it more along those lines than God showed me this and that. That is just an excuse for you to continue rejecting the Truth as you pile more and more lies upon yourself...

Here is what 1 Cor 9:19-23 says for those who are not familiar with Scripture:

1 Cor 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

This has absolutely nothing to do with deception, it is exactly what has been spoken of with Lisa concerning Red, finding a COMMON GROUND with others so that you can show and preach to them the Gospel. When Paul was around the Jews he would speak in terms the Jews would understand, follow traditions they held (that didnt dispute the Gospel) so not to offend them ect, in hopes of being able to preach to them the Gospel of Christ. There are literal examples of this in Scripture and it is NOT him being deceitful.

Same with the Greeks, Mars Hill, he spoke to them in a way that resonated with how they worshiped already, whats the point of trying to speak to the Greeks who knew little to nothing about Jewish History, their Laws or Customs? It wouldnt benefit them at all, he would of lost them as an audience, so he spoke to them about the unknown God they were worshiping and declared the one True God to them in that manner.

There is nothing about deception in these verses, only a willfully ignorant or hardened heart would even remotely come to think such nonsense.

And in case you decided to bring up 2 Corth 12, which I am sure youd love to as you have in the past, here is what I wrote back then when you tried to lie about Paul concerning this same topic:
I actually have to agree there... what he is describing is the therapeutic practice of “meeting the client where there at” - you specifically underplay differences and focus on similarities to find a common ground from where you can start moving the person in a desired direction.

It’s not dishonest, it’s selective. If I meet a person who’s endured tragedy all their life, dirt poor and struggling I’m not going to walk in and tell them I grew up in a mansion, I’m going to tell them I know how hard it is I’ve struggled too. And if I’ve never struggled myself I’ll talk about someone else I know who has or clients who have etc.
 





Lisa

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No, and I never said that he did. He says to only marry if you "burn," or cannot control your lust, presumably, which seems applicable to most of us.
Well you did make it seem that women can’t remarry..
How much ragard for the desire of women would you say that St. Paul had when he recommended that the widows and unmarried at Corinth remain unmarried, as he was.
 





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...A person who denies Jesus is God is not a Christian. It really is that simple.

Todd has rejected Christianity. It is unloving to pretend to others that he is still a Christian.
When first joining VC I was a little shocked at comments like this but now it gives me a good laugh. The arrogance of anyone who thinks they can define the faith of 2 billion believers is comical.

49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."- LUKE