No regard...for the desire of women

Dalit

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I think you and Haich are correct. What’s interesting even shudder when I think about it, I used to work with someone who’s like Lisa. This woman swore up and down that she was God’s special child and a coworker told her that we’re all God’s special children. She responded, “...but no, I’m his SPECIAL child!” No one knew what to think about it because she was cleaning out her cubicle at the time (they didn’t extend her contract and that’s a story in of itself!). Once she left, the same coworker who told her we're all special to God had to clean what she left in her cubicle and found bible passages in her drawer and a black rose! I can only say we all breathed a huge sigh of relief when she was gone because no one knew what was going to set her off next. Some of us even planned our escape route if she was going to go postal one day – no joke.

Anyway, all I know is the all the rest of us knew this woman had issues galore and the office breathed a sigh of relief when she was gone. I’d like to think that she’s gotten the counselling she needed, but I’ve heard through the grapevine she’s still the same.
That poor woman. And there's no shame in counseling. Some Christians rail against even Christian counseling, saying it's not totally Biblical because counselors are also taught psychology and non Christian worldly things. Did God not have a hand in psychology? Those are the people who could benefit from counseling the most, but they're usually too proud to address the person in the mirror and they see everyone else as the problem.
 

Todd

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I didn’t clarify that it was specifically coming from a Christian perspective, and you’re right, I should’ve bc otherwise it’s confusing. Jews and Muslims reject the Trinity bc they don’t recognize Jesus as God in the flesh, or accept the gospel. If you reject Christ, you’re rejecting God as He says He is: the Trinity. It’s basically saying ‘that’s our God...BUT, He says Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one with Him, but that’s not true’. You’re then defining God on your own terms, making God into what fits what you want. That’s ballsy, especially when Jesus’ life and everything about it was extensively documented. Even with all those historical records of Jesus confirming He’s God, and his perfect life, miracles, and resurrection and ascending to Heaven in front of hundreds of people.
It’s no longer the case where God hadn’t revealed His plan for redemption because He already sent Jesus, then sent the Holy Spirit when Jesus returned to God’s right hand.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a part of God, but he hadn’t revealed those facets yet. But yes, even though Abraham was far before Jesus’ time, bc Jesus is God, just His spirit in flesh, He was dwelling with God from the beginning, the Jews just didn’t know yet, and God didn’t send Jesus until it was His divine time to go.

Jesus ‘tore the veil’ ... by paying for our sins, He opened the door to experience His spirit for believers bc we’re no longer ‘unclean’. I reference ‘tore the veil’, bc that’s important and rarely mentioned. Here’s an explanation: https://www.gotquestions.org/temple-veil-torn.html

John 1:1&2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
(skipping ahead to the verse regarding the Word being Christ)
14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus also says later in John “Most assuredly I say to you, I AM”.... which is how God referred to Himself in the Old Testament.

Jesus is God, but there is an order (‘Jesus sits on the right hand of the Father’...there’s a Father/Son) which is why I say ‘God’ when I refer to mostly anything in the Old Testament. Not bc the Trinity didnt already exist, but bc God is the covering. I use Jesus when I refer to almost everything else so there isn’t any question about my belief in the Trinity, and that belief is what makes a distinction. Abraham wasn’t aware of the Trinity bc it wasn’t revealed yet, and therefore, couldn’t possibly deny it. However, he trusted God wholeheartedly, to the point of obeying when God tested him with Isaac. He had deep reverence for God, and God would speak to him directly. I can’t fathom that had he been on earth, he wouldn’t have recognized the glory of God in the flesh- aka, Jesus.
This is another example of why I don't believe the Trinity doctrine at all. What you are saying is completely at odds with the actual theological doctrine of the Trinity that says they are co-equal and that there is no order. The fact that you can take 10 Trinitatians and ask them to explain the Trinity and get 10 totally different answers is only confirmation that it's not actually that important to understanding the gospel of the Bible. You can claim that it has been revealed that Jesus is God, but that relies on spurious interpretation of a limited number of bible verses and ignoring the numerous verses that contradict the idea that Jesus is God. So to Muslims, Jews and non-trinitarian Christians, it has not been revealed that Jesus is God.

I've posted quotes form multiple Trinitarian biblical scholars who admit that the Trinity doctrine is not explicitily taught in the Bible. The Trinity is man made construct. If believeing Jesus is God and believing the Trinitarian doctrine is so important to understand salvation, it would be explicitily taught in the Bible. I have no problem with Christians saying they believe it to be true, even though the biblical evidence for it is sketchy at best and requires some very creative interpretation to arrive at. The issue I have is making definitive judgemental statements about the significant number of Christians who don't believe in the Trinity doctrine and believe Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, the one sent by God, but not God himself.
 

Haich

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@Red Sky at Morning You can be sure of that?

I disagree. I can't see how you arrive to that conclusion. How about children battling cancer, what past sin are they suffering for??

Pain In this life is inevitable. Some of the best people to walk this earth had the hardest lives. The chosen prophets had hardship!

Hardship doesn't mean you're being punished for past sins, it's a natural occurrence in this world and this world was designed with trials and difficulty that we have to learn to navigate through.
 

Haich

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That is false and you know it. We have given multiple answers, links to Christian apologetics sites addressing the Trinity, and Muslims refuse to accept them.
We know you refuse to accept the Trinity because whatever Muhammad said, you believe mindlessly. Denial of the Trinity is an essential part of the Muslim faith. If you end up believing in the Trinity, you are now an apostate and worthy of death.

It's got nothing to do with Islam, the trinity doesn't make sense at all. Why is there no clear verse which will shut everyone up? There are Christians who don't believe in the trinity as well so don't make it an islamic problem...

Don't flatter yourself, denying the trinity isn't an essential part of Islam. You have a flawed understanding of God if you think he can be God but also man at the same time!
 

Haich

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I’m going to be saved if I don’t fall away from the faith. But as you may have noticed many of my fellow Christians here believe in once saved always saved and I don’t.

Salvation is not a license to sin.
Romans‬ ‭6:15‬ ‭​

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!​
‭‭
Did you just confirm that there's a chance that Christians can go to hell?

So some of you believe you can and some you believe you can't.

Do you see why people are having trouble understanding what you actually believe!!?
 

Lisa

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That poor woman. And there's no shame in counseling. Some Christians rail against even Christian counseling, saying it's not totally Biblical because counselors are also taught psychology and non Christian worldly things. Did God not have a hand in psychology? Those are the people who could benefit from counseling the most, but they're usually too proud to address the person in the mirror and they see everyone else as the problem.
Did God have a hand in psychology though?

I thought we weren’t supposed to be like the people around us?
Revelation‬ ‭18:4-5‬ ‭
I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.​
‭‭
 
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Lisa

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Did you just confirm that there's a chance that Christians can go to hell?

So some of you believe you can and some you believe you can't.

Do you see why people are having trouble understanding what you actually believe!!?
Oui! I did just confirm that. It’s called falling away from the faith. But like I said most Christians believe you can’t, once saved always saved.

Ya, I know, it’s not really any different than wondering why Sunni, Shia and Sufi muslims don’t believe the same things is it? It’s just islam, why do you have different opinions?
 

Todd

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Did God have a hand in psychology though?
YES. Psychology is simply the study of the mind and behaviors. Since God created our minds and has alot to say about our behaviors I would sauy he has a hand in psychology. You may not agree with many theories or conclusions that wordly psychologists arrive at, but that doesn't mean psychology itself is not useful field of study to the Christian. Romans chapter Seven is pratically a psychology lesson.
 

Haich

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Oui! I did just confirm that. It’s called falling away from the faith. But like I said most Christians believe you can’t, once saved always saved.

Ya, I know, it’s not really any different than wondering why Sunni, Shia and Sufi muslims don’t believe the same things is it? It’s just islam, why do you have different opinions?
Thanks Lisa, I actually appreciate your direct answers for once. And dare I say it, I'm more inclined to believe your view that you can lose your salvation if you fall away which makes more sense than always been saved regardless of what you do ...

Actually you'll find there to be no disagreements on basic fundamental things such as the afterlife as they're clearly stipulated in the Quran. The difference between sects are more to due with the leadership after the Prophet's death and the interpretations of hadith...

So yh I mean christianity seems to have no real clear cut fundamental basis...you all just believe and interpret the verses yourselves which is weird to me
 

Lisa

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YES. Psychology is simply the study of the mind and behaviors. Since God created our minds and has alot to say about our behaviors I would sauy he has a hand in psychology. You may not agree with many theories or conclusions that wordly psychologists arrive at, but that doesn't mean psychology itself is not useful field of study to the Christian. Romans chapter Seven is pratically a psychology lesson.
God only has one thing to say about our behavior and that is we are all sinners, psychology doesn’t agree with that does it?
 

Lisa

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Thanks Lisa, I actually appreciate your direct answers for once. And dare I say it, I'm more inclined to believe your view that you can lose your salvation if you fall away which makes more sense than always been saved regardless of what you do ...

Actually you'll find there to be no disagreements on basic fundamental things such as the afterlife as they're clearly stipulated in the Quran. The difference between sects are more to due with the leadership after the Prophet's death and the interpretations of hadith...

So yh I mean christianity seems to have no real clear cut fundamental basis...you all just believe and interpret the verses yourselves which is weird to me
I always have direct answers.

Well...you are saved when your repent and believe on Jesus, that is true. However, you must stay with God and His word, stay in the truth of scripture. However, there is sin wanting to pull you back in all the way and there is the world that we would all like to be a part of pulling at you. So really, the only way to stay in the faith is to persevere, endure and hold on tight to God.

I thought Sufism is the more mystical side of things? That would be a difference there wouldn’t it? We can ask @apsiring soul since I think that’s his outlook?

We do have a clear cut fundamental basis...salvation is found in no one else but Jesus.
 

Haich

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I always have direct answers.

Well...you are saved when your repent and believe on Jesus, that is true. However, you must stay with God and His word, stay in the truth of scripture. However, there is sin wanting to pull you back in all the way and there is the world that we would all like to be a part of pulling at you. So really, the only way to stay in the faith is to persevere, endure and hold on tight to God.

I thought Sufism is the more mystical side of things? That would be a difference there wouldn’t it? We can ask @apsiring soul since I think that’s his outlook?

We do have a clear cut fundamental basis...salvation is found in no one else but Jesus.
So what if it's mystical? How does that change the foundation of what we believe. All muslims agree on the afterlife, sin, worship, prayer etc.

Sufis are a bit fruity but that doesn't negate their Islam.

You really don't! You, Red and Todd have very different ideas as to what christianity is about and tbh, Todd seems to be the most rational and logical in his approach. At least he can see what the world sees, the trinity and divinity of jesus just isn't supported by clear cut evidence.
 

Lisa

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So what if it's mystical? How does that change the foundation of what we believe. All muslims agree on the afterlife, sin, worship, prayer etc.

Sufis are a bit fruity but that doesn't negate their Islam.

You really don't! You, Red and Todd have very different ideas as to what christianity is about and tbh, Todd seems to be the most rational and logical in his approach. At least he can see what the world sees, the trinity and divinity of jesus just isn't supported by clear cut evidence.
Todd is fallen from the faith....
 

Haich

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There are verses which de
God only has one thing to say about our behavior and that is we are all sinners, psychology doesn’t agree with that does it?
God CREATED our minds Lisa lol there is much more to us than just sin
 

Lisa

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There are verses which de


God CREATED our minds Lisa lol there is much more to us than just sin
God already knows all about us..
Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭
The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭​
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
‭‭
 

Lisa

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I'm sorry but you don't get to decide his fate, God does.

In fact, you don't get to decide anyone's fate.
You’re right, Todd has decided his own fate by falling away from the faith.
 

Haich

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God already knows all about us..
Jeremiah‬ ‭17:9‬ ‭​

The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?​


‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭​
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
‭‭
Ok let me ask you this. Jesus prayed to God to be saved.

‘And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground’ (Luke 22:44 ESVUK

He was terrified. Did The father answer his prayer?
 

Todd

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God only has one thing to say about our behavior and that is we are all sinners, psychology doesn’t agree with that does it?
The term psychology is a broad term covering the study of the mind and behavior. There are many different theories and schools of though within psychology. Christian counselors can take theories and schools of thought that align with the Christian principles and use them to help people.

I think you are confusing the prevailing schools of thought that are popular within the secular world, as the complete and exhaustive realm of psychology. I'm assuming you are probably thinking of the psychoanalytic school of thought (Freud and Jung) when you think of psychology. I would agree that many forms of popular psychology that leave out faith and the spiritual realm are not combatible with Christianity.
 
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